Ultimate evidence that Byakugan > Sharingan

Sagebee

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Who in here is discussing anything about an expanded moveset? Idk why you guys keep quoting me with things irrelevant to the discussion. The argument is about whether or not Byakugan grants techniques just how Mangekyo and beyond grant techniques. We know for a fact they do not because it is stated that every Hyuga clan tech had to be LEARNED.



Like I said, tell yourself whatever you need to in order to get through the day.
You mean specific techniques like izanagi well it's still the same answer it's up to the author. We didn't find about these techniques till part 2.

There's really nothing to argue in the end of the day it's up the author we as the reader don't know for sure.
 

Mori Jin

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The amount of butthurt here smh. Databook lists the techniques mentioned in this thread as kkg. No amount of Uchiha wanking is going to change that. Just like Uchiha had to train their eyes to get from 1 to 2 to 3 (or from 1 form to the other), you can't use hyuuga kkg techniques without the byakugan.
 

KidGamer65

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You mean specific techniques like izanagi well it's still the same answer it's up to the author. We didn't find about these techniques till part 2.

There's really nothing to argue in the end of the day it's up the author we as the reader don't know for sure.
:lol Stop making excuses.

日向一族の中でも宗家にしか伝わっ� �いない、柔拳秘伝高等体術。両手か� ��放出するチャクラを形態変化させる ことで、リーチと破壊力を格段に向� �させる。その腕はまるで獅子のよう� ��様相を呈し、触れた相手の経絡系を 喰らい尽くすのだ。
A secret high-level juuken technique, taught only to the main family of the Hyuuga clan. By changing the shape of chakra released from both hands, [the user] greatly increases reach and destructive power. The arms become entirely like lions which drain the chakra network of those they touch.
チャクラコントロールを少しでも誤� �と失敗するため、習得は極めて困難� ��密な技量と“白眼”があればこその 芸当である。
Because it will fail at even the slightest mistake in chakra control, it is extremely difficult to learn this ability, which is a feat that requires the Byakugan.
KEKKEI GENKAI; Taijutsu: Hakkeshou Kaiten (Titanic Revolution* of the Eight Trigrams Palm)
User: Hyuuga Neji
Defensive; Close range; Rank: none

Main text

A taijutsu where one releases a large amount of chakra from their body's chakra openings to catch the blows from an enemy's attacks, while making one's body spin to repel them. A secret transmitted by oral tradition within the Hyuuga's Main House, though Hyuuga Neji came up with it own his own, despite him being from the Branch House. It stands in the same league as Gaara's Sand as an ultimate protection, and was even called "the other Absolute Defense". This is the high grade taijutsu that made Neji's prodigious talent known during the Chuunin exam.

Caption

-An application of Juuken, the other "Absolute Defense"!!

Picture comment

-The Byakugan's nigh-360? field of vision perceives the rear attack, and Kaiten intercepts it (tn: some words were illegible to me so that sentence is partly made up, and probably wrong).
The author has already decided that the clan techniques need to be learnt. Thus Byakugan does not grant these techniques. Not sure what is so hard to understand here.
 

Sagebee

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:lol Stop making excuses.





The author has already decided that the clan techniques need to be learnt. Thus Byakugan does not grant these techniques. Not sure what is so hard to understand here.
I'm really not even following what this thread is on of course those techniques are learned but it needs a byakugan to do

I was just responding to what I thought as you limiting the byakugans possible abilities
 

KidGamer65

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I'm really not even following what this thread is on of course those techniques are learned but it needs a byakugan to do

I was just responding to what I thought as you limiting the byakugans possible abilities
Lmao then don't jump in without knowing what's being discussed otherwise you'll just end up arguing against points that were never made. I never once said that you didn't need Byakugan to perform some of these techniques. I simply said having Byakugan doesn't give you these techniques.
 
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Made in Heaven

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That's not relevant to anything being discussed in this thread though so there is no point even arguing it.



Irrelevant. Does the Byakugan grant one the abilities to learn these jutsu? Yes or no? The answer is no.



You can have this point if you want. In the context of this argument it doesn't mean a thing. Byakugan doesn't grant these techniques. That was the main point and that is a fact.
Yes, I agree Byakugan doesn't grant these abilities directly, but they are still Byakugan abilities because they can't be used without the Byakugan's innate CC-giving abilities. That was all I was ever arguing.

>Byakugan gives high-level Chakra control
>This Chakra Control is responsible for Gentle Fist abilities being made possible, as stated in Twin Lion Fists databook
>Thus, all Jyuken abiliites MUST and can only be used with Byakugan

Anyways, I suggest trying to get not too bent out of shape over a misunderstanding. I was never arguing things like Rotation and the like were innate in the sense that they're acquired automatically, merely arguing that they can't be used without Byakugan since Jyuken stems from Byakugan and can't be used without it.
 
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Styles

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:wut: Why are some people saying Byakugan grant abilities like rotation etc? It was already stated that those abilities are passed down from the head to the heir of the main family.
 

KidGamer65

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Yes, I agree Byakugan doesn't grant these abilities directly, but they are still Byakugan abilities because they can't be used without the Byakugan's innate CC-giving abilities. That was all I was ever arguing.

>Byakugan gives high-level Chakra control
>This Chakra Control is responsible for Gentle Fist abilities being made possible, as stated in Twin Lion Fists databook
>Thus, all Jyuken abiliites MUST and can only be used with Byakugan

Anyways, I suggest trying to get not too bent out of shape over a misunderstanding. I was never arguing things like Rotation and the like were innate in the sense that they're acquired automatically, merely arguing that they can't be used without Byakugan since Jyuken stems from Byakugan and can't be used without it.
The underlined was never stated. It's only said that the Byakugan is needed to use it because it requires a high level of chakra control. Not every other Gentle Fist technique. The reason why they can perform these other techniques is stated and Byakugan was never once stated to be the reason why they can perform them.

-Rotation. Tenten explained how their ability to release chakra from all over their body is why Neji can use it.
-Air Palm and Eighty Gods, makes no mention of an extreme amount of chakra control being needed nor does it say that Byakugan is why they can perform said tech.
-Body Blow is the same exact way.

Are they "Byakugan abilities"? Sure, but not in the same sense as Amaterasu is an MS ability. Thus my previous points all stand.
 

ImmortalRegis

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>Byakugan gives high-level Chakra control
>This Chakra Control is responsible for Gentle Fist abilities being made possible, as stated in Twin Lion Fists databook
>Thus, all Jyuken abiliites MUST and can only be used with Byakugan
Tell me are you ****ing trolling or what? Be lucky you got Hinata as avatar and sig because she doesnt deserve words i have for you
 

Mellanoma

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The underlined was never stated. It's only said that the Byakugan is needed to use it because it requires a high level of chakra control. Not every other Gentle Fist technique. The reason why they can perform these other techniques is stated and Byakugan was never once stated to be the reason why they can perform them.

-Rotation. Tenten explained how their ability to release chakra from all over their body is why Neji can use it.
-Air Palm and Eighty Gods, makes no mention of an extreme amount of chakra control being needed nor does it say that Byakugan is why they can perform said tech.
-Body Blow is the same exact way.

Are they "Byakugan abilities"? Sure, but not in the same sense as Amaterasu is an MS ability. Thus my previous points all stand.

In reference to Byakaugan seeing the flow of chakra would that not help in allowing someone better chakra control?

Does it automatically give them better chakra control? probably not but I imagine being able to see that flow would help tremendously
 

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The Byakugan allows you to see the pressure points in the chakra system. That's it. Because of this, those with the Byakugan may target the pressure points.
Agree, and it also grantes high-level Chakra Control, which the databook says is mandatory for Juken abiliites. It also grants Jyuken upon being unlocked, as shown with Himawari.

The Hyuuga took advantage of this and created a fighting style known as the Gentle Fist.
Kaguya also displayed a Gentle Fist ability.

It isn't an actual ability unlocked like Amaterasu, but rather a fighting style made easier by the Byakugan. If you agree with this, you cannot say it is a "Byakugan technique".
I agree, things like Rotation and Air Palm are not unlocked automatically, but Jyuken is granted automatically in the same way Amaterasu us granted automatically to MS users, and Himawari proved this.

No, it isn't a style simple made easier by the Byakugan. As I said, TLF databook entry states the CC granted by the Byakugan is REQUIRED to use it, and on top of that, Jyuken is unlocked with Byakugan.

Let me try and make myself more clear.

Amaterasu is unlocked automatically, but Sasuke's various applications of the Blaze Style is something he derived from the base technique through experimentation and experience.

Same way, Jyuken is unlocked automatically as shown with Himawari, but various applications like Rotation and air Palm are techniques derived from the base technique.

Unless you can give me one valid reason why Madara can't use the Gentle Fist, then you have to concede that it is not a "Byakugan technique".
Gates aren't the same as the normal Chakra Points. You can even see that the network and other chakra Points are invisible. Plus, on a side note, this is a Rennigan user with the Juubi within him, and we've seen that immense power like that increases visual prowess considerably, considering Kaguya's Byakugan was able to see the whole world (that's how she used IT without a moon), so applying Madara's Rennigan to other Rennigan users isn't fair.

And I already gave you a reason.

>Byakugan grants the high-level Chakra Control needed for Jyuken abilities like TLF, as said in the Databook.
>Himawari unlocked Jyuken immediately after getting Byakugan, meaning it is instantly learned upon getting the eyes, much like how Sasuke got Amaterasu with MS.
 
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The underlined was never stated. It's only said that the Byakugan is needed to use it because it requires a high level of chakra control.
But this shows Byakugan does grant high-level CC, which is what Rotation needs to be used, sinc it requires mastery over Chakra Control.

-Rotation. Tenten explained how their ability to release chakra from all over their body is why Neji can use it.
Tenten says mastery of Jyuken is needed to release Chakra from all points. Jyuken is unlocked by having Byakugan.

Are they "Byakugan abilities"? Sure, but not in the same sense as Amaterasu is an MS ability. Thus my previous points all stand.
Agree.
 

KidGamer65

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But this shows Byakugan does grant high-level CC, which is what Rotation needs to be used, sinc it requires mastery over Chakra Control.



Tenten says mastery of Jyuken is needed to release Chakra from all points. Jyuken is unlocked by having Byakugan.



Agree.
Underlined was never stated. It was stated that Neji being capable of releasing chakra from all over his body and mastering Gentle Fist is why he can use Rotation.


Bold is false. Gentle Fist is a fighting style. You don't unlock a fighting style.
 

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Underlined was never stated. It was stated that Neji being capable of releasing chakra from all over his body and mastering Gentle Fist is why he can use Rotation.


Bold is false. Gentle Fist is a fighting style. You don't unlock a fighting style.
I'm not talking about the fighting style per say, just the ability to flow Chakra into the Chakra Network. Himawari showcased Jyuken (the tecnique, not the fighting style) is unlocked with Byakugan.
 

KidGamer65

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I'm not talking about the fighting style per say, just the ability to flow Chakra into the Chakra Network. Himawari showcased Jyuken (the tecnique, not the fighting style) is unlocked with Byakugan.
That's already stated to be a clan ability not an ability granted by the Byakugan. Already covered this.
 
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