Uchihas could defeat easily Pain logically speaking

[John Constantine]

Very good analysis towards defeating Pain.

I do say Tsukuyomi'ing everybody of Pain is a very interesting thought and I think it might succeed in many ways. The only problem that Itachi would have is that he doesnt know where the real body of Pain is. I dont think that Tsukuyomi can actually kill a person, I think its just used to severely dis-orientate the victim and mentally rape him to such a state that the caster of Tsukuyomi have enough time to kill the actual person. So I think he will seriously damage Pain(The real one) but I dont think that he would be killed in the process. So Itachi would still sit with the dilemma of finding the real deal if you get what Im saying, but it would surely be a very effective ability against Pain.

Tsukyomi is a killer move.. Sharingan Kakashi said on the Hospital,after getting knocked down with Tsukyomi that Itachi Uchiha could have killed him with it​

.

 

[zumorikato]

Tsukyomi is a killer move.. Sharingan Kakashi said on the Hospital,after getting knocked down with Tsukyomi that Itachi Uchiha could have killed him with it​

.

Did he say the move could kill him or Itachi could have killed him?

 

[John Constantine]

Did he say the move could kill him or Itachi could have killed him?

I don't recall correctly but he was refering that Itachi Uchiha could have killed him with that Genjutsu..​

 

[Sauron_the_dark_lord]

I don't think anyone can genjutsu God realm as his body's chakra is constantly being altered by Nagato.
Second rinnegan can control life and death.
Also he was the only person who flattened konoha by one move.
Rinnegan created the ninja world so its unbeatable of course if its user can use it fully.
Also nagato hadn't learnt all the techs since there must be much more in the eyes which created ninja world,.

 

[Blizzard589]

I really don't think any genjutsu, if used on one body, would affect the others. Also, I don't think Itachi could Tsukuyomi over and over again to get the job done as his Tsukuyomi eye would give out long before.

You see, each Pain body, while they are connected, is still an individual body with an individual chakra system, and individual senses. Genjutsu affecting the chakra system of one doesn't mean it will affect the others. The Sage tech Toad Song only affected the 3 Pain bodies that were in the immediate area because they could hear it. The others were unaffected.

And here is proof that it is possible to kill someone with a severe enough Tsukuyomi:

You must be registered for see links

Kisame implies that he's seen Itachi kill someone with it before and Kakashi questions why he Itachi didn't just kill him (the answer being Itachi didn't want to kill anyone).

 

[John Constantine]

I really don't think any genjutsu, if used on one body, would affect the others. Also, I don't think Itachi could Tsukuyomi over and over again to get the job done as his Tsukuyomi eye would give out long before.

You see, each Pain body, while they are connected, is still an individual body with an individual chakra system, and individual senses. Genjutsu affecting the chakra system of one doesn't mean it will affect the others. The Sage tech Toad Song only affected the 3 Pain bodies that were in the immediate area because they could hear it. The others were unaffected.

And here is proof that it is possible to kill someone with a severe enough Tsukuyomi:

You must be registered for see links

Yeah and Kisame Hoshigaki was already giving the hint about Itachi Uchiha's eyes..​

 

[Typhon]

This theory fails hard.

For Tsukiyomi to hit the opponent must look into the eyes of the user. Pain uses 6 bodies to fight one opponent at the same time. All Pain has to do is surround the sharingan user and therefor only one body can be hit with the Tsukiyomi at a time. As we know Tsukiyomi takes a huge toll on the user and also takes a few seconds to actually use. While the sharingan user is trying to hit one body of Pain with the Tsukiyomi, the other five can easily swoop in and kill the sharingan user.

The fatal flaw with this theory is that Tsukiyomi is meant to be used in a 1 on 1 battle unless you throw it up on the moon like Madara is planning. Seeing as how Pain uses 6 bodies it would be impossible for the sharingan user to successfully use Tsukiyomi throughout the battle.

GG

 

[John Constantine]

This theory fails hard.

For Tsukiyomi to hit the opponent must look into the eyes of the user. Pain uses 6 bodies to fight one opponent at the same time. All Pain has to do is surround the sharingan user and therefor only one body can be hit with the Tsukiyomi at a time. As we know Tsukiyomi takes a huge toll on the user and also takes a few seconds to actually use. While the sharingan user is trying to hit one body of Pain with the Tsukiyomi, the other five can easily swoop in and kill the sharingan user.

The fatal flaw with this theory is that Tsukiyomi is meant to be used in a 1 on 1 battle unless you throw it up on the moon like Madara is planning. Seeing as how Pain uses 6 bodies it would be impossible for the sharingan user to successfully use Tsukiyomi throughout the battle.

GG

I think an Uchiha user would have a better chance at Pein with Amaterasu then Tsukyomi actually.​

 

[Typhon]

I think an Uchiha user would have a better chance at Pein with Amaterasu then Tsukyomi actually.​

I agree, but still the Uchiha would end up losing simply because the Amaterasu could be absorbed by the fat body Pain.

Only chance an Uchiha has at winning this fight is bringing out Susanoo that is equipped with the Yata Mirror and spirit Sword. But then again I think Susanoo with those two items is invincible and was only meant to be used by Itachi to seal Orochimaru so its kind of pointless....

 

[Ryuusaki]

k. Lets take it from the beggining. I will use as an example Itachi, because he was a powerfull Uchiha who depended his whole fighting style on Sharingan.

Pain is shown to be weak against Genjutsu. What a coincidence, uchihas are the best in Genjutsu. Itachi has never shown any problem facing many opponents at once. Some may say that he has a weak stamina. But this noob bullshit. He managed to used two Tsukuyomis, some kage bushins that expolded a suiton and an Amaterasu and still be able to fight. Kakashi must go to the hospital after using his Mangkuy for two times. So, if you take into account the fact that Pain is weak to genjutsu plus the fact that Sharingan can Genjutsu a beast like Manda in a few seconds and control a Jinchuriki who is kage level something that could not be possible it is logical.

So, one possible strategy is to use multiple Genjutsu or Tsukuyomi. Jiraiya failed to kill Pain with his frog genjutsu however that is because Pain saved all the bodies for later. So hould have been the reviving body there from the start then Pain was pretty screwd up. However Nagato would be still alive and here is where Itachi comes and plays his role. Tsukuyomi can work on multiple opponents as long as the opponent looks at the eyes. So, Itachi could Tsukuyomi the Pain bodies especially since they have not exploited the ability to fight without looking at Itachis face. However Nagato shares the vision with these bodies so he would be Tsukuyomied too.


So any Uchiha who has mastered Genjutsu could practilly kill Pain.

1. Kakashi has an implanted version of the sharingan, and thus suffers form a lot more side-effects due to not being a natural wielder of it. This has been explained already.
2. No, but they could attack him from all angles at the same time, so I don't see how this makes sense. Besides, there have been cases where not all bodies were genjutsued simultaneously, something that sort of warrants the fact that they're not directly connected.

 

[John Constantine]

I agree, but still the Uchiha would end up losing simply because the Amaterasu could be absorbed by the fat body Pain.

Only chance an Uchiha has at winning this fight is bringing out Susanoo that is equipped with the Yata Mirror and spirit Sword. But then again I think Susanoo with those two items is invincible and was only meant to be used by Itachi to seal Orochimaru so its kind of pointless....

Well,i think Uchihas couldn't defeat Pein but Itachi Uchiha could.
There's a big difference there in my opinion. I do not agree with the OP.

Amaterasu burns at the speed of eye sight,it's uncertain if the Fat pein body could absorb all the Amaterasu without dying in the process.

After someone's point with Jiraiya's Genjutsu i think Tsukyomi would be useless.

An Susano'o/Amaterasu mix would be the way to go and probably the only way to defeat Pein but once again i only see that being reliable if the Uchiha were to be a 100% non-nearly blind Itachi Uchiha.​

 

[peaceful]

I really don't think any genjutsu, if used on one body, would affect the others. Also, I don't think Itachi could Tsukuyomi over and over again to get the job done as his Tsukuyomi eye would give out long before.

You see, each Pain body, while they are connected, is still an individual body with an individual chakra system, and individual senses. Genjutsu affecting the chakra system of one doesn't mean it will affect the others. The Sage tech Toad Song only affected the 3 Pain bodies that were in the immediate area because they could hear it. The others were unaffected.

And here is proof that it is possible to kill someone with a severe enough Tsukuyomi:

You must be registered for see links

Kisame implies that he's seen Itachi kill someone with it before and Kakashi questions why he Itachi didn't just kill him (the answer being Itachi didn't want to kill anyone).

Nope. Frog song affects the ears. Pain bdoies do not share hearing they share view. So if Itachi or anyone who could cast an eye Genjutsu could affect all bodies including Nagato.

 

[DarkMarke]

Looks like I managed to avoid the start of the 4th ninja flame war.

In my view, this thread is missing a big point, it's title is "Uchihas could defeat easily Pain logically speaking" when it should be "Madara/Sasuke/Itachi could defeat easily Pain logically speaking" since thats all that you've been writing about.

Most of you seem to think that all Uchiha's have unlocked their MS when the manga stated that it was pretty much a once in a blue moon event (Sasuke's father said as much in one of Sasuke's flashbacks), currently the only ones the manga has stated to have unlocked the MS ever are Kakashi, Itachi, Madara, Sasuke, Izuna and maybe Danzo.
The rest of the Uchiha just has the regular ass Sharingan.

When it comes to using Genjutsu on Pain, what matters is whether he's stupid enough to look in the Uchiha's eye's or not, I would assume Pain knows about the MS and would make point of avoiding eye contact.
Even if all the Pain's are put under, one still has to locate Nagato which I don't think can be done with the Sharingan.

I've said enough for now but I know for sure I'll get flamed for this.

Speaking of flaming, who was the idiot who lured out the EUSasuke?

 

[peaceful]

Looks like I managed to avoid the start of the 4th ninja flame war.

In my view, this thread is missing a big point, it's title is "Uchihas could defeat easily Pain logically speaking" when it should be "Madara/Sasuke/Itachi could defeat easily Pain logically speaking" since thats all that you've been writing about.

Most of you seem to think that all Uchiha's have unlocked their MS when the manga stated that it was pretty much a once in a blue moon event (Sasuke's father said as much in one of Sasuke's flashbacks), currently the only ones the manga has stated to have unlocked the MS ever are Kakashi, Itachi, Madara, Sasuke, Izuna and maybe Danzo.
The rest of the Uchiha just has the regular ass Sharingan.

When it comes to using Genjutsu on Pain, what matters is whether he's stupid enough to look in the Uchiha's eye's or not, I would assume Pain knows about the MS and would make point of avoiding eye contact.
Even if all the Pain's are put under, one still has to locate Nagato which I don't think can be done with the Sharingan.

I've said enough for now but I know for sure I'll get flamed for this.

Speaking of flaming, who was the idiot who lured out the EUSasuke?

Wrong. There have been many guys who have awakened MS. Madara told us so, so you are wrong.

Nope. Nagato shares the view with his bodies. If one body is affected then Nagato would be affected too.

On a side note Uchihas can locate Ngatao since they can see chakra and Nagato is connected with chakra with his bodies. Totally irrelevant to this thread though.

 

[DarkMarke]

Wrong. There have been many guys who have awakened MS. Madara told us so, so you are wrong.

Nope. Nagato shares the view with his bodies. If one body is affected then Nagato would be affected too.

On a side note Uchihas can locate Ngatao since they can see chakra and Nagato is connected with chakra with his bodies. Totally irrelevant to this thread though.

1) When did Madara say that?
My proof is when Sasuke questioned his father after seeing Itachi's MS (Itachi glared at his fathers back after the run in with the police regarding Shisui's apparent Suicide), Sasuke's father said something along the lines of "there's a legend of a Sharingan above the one they had"
The stone tablet with the MS secrets might have been from when Madara was around and hidden, Madara let Itachi (who in turn let Sasuke know) know of it around the time of the massacre, meaning the rest of Uchiha were oblivious to it. (Half the Uchiha clan would have wiped itself out if what you were saying was true as they believed that the only way to unlock MS was to kill ones best friend, they obviously didn't know since they were trying to arrest Itachi for the murder of Shisui)

2) It appears that Tsukuyomi can't kill someone who has a strong mind so it'll at most make Nagato pass out.

3) If Nagato has passed out then I would think the connection to the 6 paths would be broken

 

[Kawagiri]

... apart from the fact itachi gave sasuke his powers... it's not proven that all uchiha's can use tsukoyomi with mangekyou...

so even with this theory it's possible for only 1 living character... i mean kakashi had sharingan and got owned pretty much >_>

 

[Typhon]

... apart from the fact itachi gave sasuke his powers... it's not proven that all uchiha's can use tsukoyomi with mangekyou...

so even with this theory it's possible for only 1 living character... i mean kakashi had sharingan and got owned pretty much >_>

I was under the assumption that Madara could use it as well when he said he planned on casting an infinite Tsukiyomi in the sky. Its possible he wants to use Sasuke for this, but just from how he explained it I thought it was him.

 

[Typhon]

Nope. Frog song affects the ears. Pain bdoies do not share hearing they share view. So if Itachi or anyone who could cast an eye Genjutsu could affect all bodies including Nagato.

If you can assume that all the bodies of Pain and Nagato himself can be affected by a single Tsukiyomi without any actual proof from the manga then we can assume that Nagato is immune to all Uchiha tactics without any actual proof from the manga.

Both are supported by the same amount of proof.



But lets say your idea is true and a single Tsukiyomi can hit all the bodies and Nagato. Nagato knows how genjutsu works, especially Sharingan based genjutsu. Why would he allow himself to be put in a situation where he looks Itachi or whomever in the eyes when he has 6 bodies that share vision? All he has to do is keep one body behind Itachi and he could have the other bodies fight with their eyes closed if he really wants to.



Honestly I don't buy it that you actual believe half the stuff you type. I think you just make these topics for the sake of arguing. Its either that or:
1.) Immediate re-reading of manga is needed.
2.) Fanboyism has shredded every bit of common sense or ability to think.
3.) Its all for fun and show.
4.) You actually believe what you are saying.

Either way any continuation of trying to persuade you from your illusion will fail miserably, so before I waste a few more posts attempting to do so I'm going to be making my exit from this here thread.

Good luck to you all....

 

[peaceful]

If you can assume that all the bodies of Pain and Nagato himself can be affected by a single Tsukiyomi without any actual proof from the manga then we can assume that Nagato is immune to all Uchiha tactics without any actual proof from the manga.

Both are supported by the same amount of proof.



But lets say your idea is true and a single Tsukiyomi can hit all the bodies and Nagato. Nagato knows how genjutsu works, especially Sharingan based genjutsu. Why would he allow himself to be put in a situation where he looks Itachi or whomever in the eyes when he has 6 bodies that share vision? All he has to do is keep one body behind Itachi and he could have the other bodies fight with their eyes closed if he really wants to.



Honestly I don't buy it that you actual believe half the stuff you type. I think you just make these topics for the sake of arguing. Its either that or:
1.) Immediate re-reading of manga is needed.
2.) Fanboyism has shredded every bit of common sense or ability to think.
3.) Its all for fun and show.
4.) You actually believe what you are saying.

Either way any continuation of trying to persuade you from your illusion will fail miserably, so before I waste a few more posts attempting to do so I'm going to be making my exit from this here thread.

Good luck to you all....

Nope. What i say is based on manga scans. What you say is something you just made up from your mind.

... apart from the fact itachi gave sasuke his powers... it's not proven that all uchiha's can use tsukoyomi with mangekyou...

so even with this theory it's possible for only 1 living character... i mean kakashi had sharingan and got owned pretty much >_>

All Uchihas till now have shown the ability to use Tsukuyomi. Your point is invalid.

1) When did Madara say that?
My proof is when Sasuke questioned his father after seeing Itachi's MS (Itachi glared at his fathers back after the run in with the police regarding Shisui's apparent Suicide), Sasuke's father said something along the lines of "there's a legend of a Sharingan above the one they had"
The stone tablet with the MS secrets might have been from when Madara was around and hidden, Madara let Itachi (who in turn let Sasuke know) know of it around the time of the massacre, meaning the rest of Uchiha were oblivious to it. (Half the Uchiha clan would have wiped itself out if what you were saying was true as they believed that the only way to unlock MS was to kill ones best friend, they obviously didn't know since they were trying to arrest Itachi for the murder of Shisui)

2) It appears that Tsukuyomi can't kill someone who has a strong mind so it'll at most make Nagato pass out.

3) If Nagato has passed out then I would think the connection to the 6 paths would be broken

1)madara said it when talking to Sasuke

2) Kakashi was about to be killed if Itachi was a bad boy and not a hero.

3) Nagato would have been killed.

 

[DarkMarke]

1)madara said it when talking to Sasuke

2) Kakashi was about to be killed if Itachi was a bad boy and not a hero.

3) Nagato would have been killed.

1) Provide page. (I'm looking for the one I'm referring to.)

2) Provide proof. (i.e. the page saying that Kakashi could've died.)

3) Provide proof. (i.e. Legit text of Kishi saying so.)

If you can't so these simple things then you should stop making threads like this.

One note, Fanboysim doesn't survive long here because most of us know what we're talking about.