Uchiha the most powerful clan

[The Demon Hawk]

Before starting, let me just guess something. You weren't completely present mentally while replying to this post. Am I right?

But where do you even see that? Itachi, Sasuke, and Obito are the only Uchiha's to have been stronger than both Senju's we've seen bar Hashirama (talking about Tobirama and Tsunade). And we haven't even seen Senju members bar those three, who all existed during the Feudal Era bar Tsunade.

I said "Excluding Hashirama however, nearly all Uchihas I've seen are potentially stronger than their Senju counterparts, even if they are weaker in reality".

The formatted parts need your attention. In short, all Uchihas were potentially stronger even if not actually stronger (bar Hashirama), as we've seen. The rest of the clan is no exception to this general characteristic, obviously.

That's not what the Manga said. Itachi claimed that the first Uchiha to have been noted in awakening MS were Madara/Izuna, however he said overtime that the Uchiha began to try to achieve a perfect light (EMS) after more of them awakened MS following in Madara's example.

That contradicts nothing that I've said.

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How is this the same condition?

Clearly not talking about this fight. Maybe, you missed the part where I said "after losing Kurama".

So if I understand correctly. Tobirama being a Genius who crafted techniques on his own talent isn't 'potential'. When a person learns or creates a technique, it isn't based on their talent/genius or potential? :lol

Nope, you don't understand correctly. It is potential, not "Senju potential". Tobirama could've done that even if he wasn't a Senju.

Either way it doesn't change the fact that Tobirama defeated an MS Uchiha, without a single panel of him 'deceiving' his opponent and such. Kind of ironic that someone is arguing against the moral code of what a shinobi is. As if deceiving wasn't part of their structure.

Hell even Itachi uses forms of that. You know what it's called? Genjutsu! lol.

Never said Tobirama's victory was unfair, bruh. He just didn't have enough potential as a Senju to beat Izuna who purely fought on his Uchiha potential.

Sadly that isn't the case. The bottom line is that Senju's were dominate because the Uchiha's were just not as superior to them.

Exactly. And "Uchihas were just not superior to them" because most Uchihas couldn't potentially reach their full capacity, and those who did (like during the Feudal era) just weren't as skilled as Senjus at that respective time. Doesn't change the fact that Uchihas were potentially superior to the Senjus.

Even now the strongest Uchiha wouldn't stand next to the strongest Senju.

Irrelevant. Has nothing to do with the clan's general potential.

 

[Dantee]

Why is there even a debate. :bdpf:

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Before starting, let me just guess something. You weren't completely present mentally while replying to this post. Am I right?



I said "Excluding Hashirama however, nearly all Uchihas I've seenare potentially strongerthan their Senju counterparts, even if they are weaker in reality".

The formatted parts need your attention. In short, all Uchihas were potentially stronger even if not actually stronger (bar Hashirama), as we've seen. The rest of the clan is no exception to this general characteristic, obviously.



That contradicts nothing that I've said.



Clearly not talking about this fight. Maybe, you missed the part where I said "after losing Kurama".



Nope, you don't understand correctly. It is potential, not "Senju potential". Tobirama could've done that even if he wasn't a Senju.



Never said Tobirama's victory was unfair, bruh. He just didn't have enough potential as a Senju to beat Izuna who purely fought on his Uchiha potential.



Exactly. And "Uchihas were just not superior to them" because most Uchihas couldn't potentially reach their full capacity, and those who did (like during the Feudal era) just weren't as skilled as Senjus at that respective time. Doesn't change the fact that Uchihas were potentially superior to the Senjus.



Irrelevant. Has nothing to do with the clan's general potential.

I see you keep on talking about potential and use that as a crutch so what is uchiha potential because not everybody will get shraigan (80% of clan) and even fewer get Ms (3% of clan) and Ems SUPER RARE (1%)

A NORMAL uchiha is no different from a normal Ninja
All senij have strong body and large chakra . Basically imagine vote 1 naruto with one tail vs shraigan less sasuke

Now remember Sasuke with his Sharingan he was about to hold his own but still had a slight disadvantage

Ms push the Advantage to the uchiha but only temporary

The uchiha are basically glass canon they have power but they can't use it for too long before getting tired

 

[lndra]

I said "Excluding Hashirama however, nearly all Uchihas I've seen are potentially stronger than their Senju counterparts, even if they are weaker in reality".

That's only because we've seen two Senju from the Clan in contrast to the Uchiha we've seen consistently. However the problem with your logic is that you said their counterparts, when we haven't seen any Senju since. Where exactly are these comparisons from?

The formatted parts need your attention. In short, all Uchihas were potentially stronger even if not actually stronger (bar Hashirama), as we've seen. The rest of the clan is no exception to this general characteristic, obviously.

As stated above, that's not entirely right. The Uchiha we've seen aren't stronger than their Senju counterparts, because we haven't seen Senju in comparison to them. Who is there to compare these Uchiha to? Hashirama, Tobirama, and Tsunade.

That contradicts nothing that I've said.

Are you sure? You just said that MS Uchiha were not as spontaneous as we would have liked to believe, but the Manga begs to differ.

Clearly not talking about this fight. Maybe, you missed the part where I said "after losing Kurama".

I don't think you are understanding. Your argument was based on the fact that Madara lost Kurama in his final fight as some type of argument, but I just showed you a scans of Madara fighting without Kurama as if your point had any credibility from the beginning. But I'm not surprised you missed it, though.

Nope, you don't understand correctly. It is potential, not "Senju potential". Tobirama could've done that even if he wasn't a Senju.

The Senju Clan is known to have harbored shinobi who mastered all ranges of abilities. Now that's not a coincidence, and I highly doubt anyone outside of the Senju Clan would of been capable of matching an Uchiha.

Makes no logic what's so ever.

Never said Tobirama's victory was unfair, bruh. He just didn't have enough potential as a Senju to beat Izuna who purely fought on his Uchiha potential.

But that is what doesn't make sense. You said he didn't have enough potential, yet defeated Izuna with his own abilities. How is that not his potential?

Exactly. And "Uchihas were just not superior to them" because most Uchihas couldn't potentially reach their full capacity, and those who did (like during the Feudal era) just weren't as skilled as Senjus at that respective time. Doesn't change the fact that Uchihas were potentially superior to the Senjus.

Uchiha's apparently did not reach their full capacity, is stated where in the Manga? And now the Uchiha's weren't as skilled as the Senju.

Man your arguments just fall on the line of baseless and opinionated, don't they?

Irrelevant. Has nothing to do with the clan's general potential.

Has nothing to do with the Clan's potential, because I was talking about his own potential.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Why is there even a debate. :bdpf:

it's not...senju > uchiha as stated multiple times by kishimoto

 

[DHOH]

it's not...senju > uchiha as stated multiple times by kishimoto

Name one senju that can beat JJ Madara Uchiha or Adult Rinnengan Sasuke Uchiha.

 

[Made in Heaven]

[/B]

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Wrong. If rinnesharingan was the only way to cast IT then Sasuke wouldn't of been able to block IT and juubito wouldn't of been able to cast IT either but he did.

Did you ever see Sasuke cast IT or even claim to be able to do so? Nope. Moreover, Sasuke' blocking IT proves nothing in whether he can cast IT or not, it just means his Susano'O can block it. I don't get how you can get blocking an attack = able to use that attack. What? As for Obito, do recall that he was going to use the Shunju tree to cast IT and not his own SHARINGAN and RINNEGAN eyes. Why? Because those eyes can't cast IT.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Name one senju that can beat JJ Madara Uchiha or Adult Rinnengan Sasuke Uchiha.

ok sure

 

[Uchihauzamakibarrage]

Can't we all just agree that the Uchiha's were a strong clan? If were talking about the strongest clan in the history of NV then saying the uchihas were the top wouldn't be true. Yes they are strong, but where are the magna facts stating that they are the strongest?

 

[The Demon Hawk]

That's only because we've seen two Senju from the Clan in contrast to the Uchiha we've seen consistently. However the problem with your logic is that you said their counterparts, when we haven't seen any Senju since. Where exactly are these comparisons from?



As stated above, that's not entirely right. The Uchiha we've seen aren't stronger than their Senju counterparts, because we haven't seen Senju in comparison to them. Who is there to compare these Uchiha to? Hashirama, Tobirama, and Tsunade.

Think about counterpart as an equivalent from the other clan. Uchihas are greater than equivalent Senjus in terms of potential. The clan's general potential is just superior. How far can Senjus go relying on their own capacity? Definitely not as far as the Uchihas. This is backed up by whatever we've seen in regards to them so far.

Are you sure? You just said that MS Uchiha were not as spontaneous as we would have liked to believe, but the Manga begs to differ.

I said they were more common than usual during the war but they were still relatively lesser in amount. And the cause of their inferiority was the Senjus' skills which were class leading at that time.

I don't think you are understanding. Your argument was based on the fact that Madara lost Kurama in his final fight as some type of argument, but I just showed you a scans of Madara fighting without Kurama as if your point had any credibility from the beginning. But I'm not surprised you missed it, though.

In that fight, Madara didn't have Kurama at all. But in their last fight, Madara fought on equal footing with Hashirama despite losing Kurama and being inferior in power. And something which happened previously can safely be discarded in favor of something that happened subsequent to that.

The Senju Clan is known to have harbored shinobi who mastered all ranges of abilities. Now that's not a coincidence, and I highly doubt anyone outside of the Senju Clan would of been capable of matching an Uchiha.

Makes no logic what's so ever.

Obviously not. I never said that their Senjuness had no part to play in this. I'm just saying that their Senjuness alone couldn't have competed with Uchihas (the ones who attained their maximum potential).

But that is what doesn't make sense. You said he didn't have enough potential, yet defeated Izuna with his own abilities. How is that not his potential?

How many times do I have to repeat that I'm talking about his Senju potential, not his potential as himself?

Uchiha's apparently did not reach their full capacity, is stated where in the Manga?

An Uchiha's full capacity is MS. Not every Uchiha was able to attain that. I've already said that despite being common, MS Uchihas were relatively lesser in amount because not every Uchiha can possibly awaken the MS.

And now the Uchiha's weren't as skilled as the Senju.

Senju was known as the clan of a thousand skills, not Uchihas. If they managed to compete Senjus, they definitely matched them with their own capacity. Uchihas were obviously skilled battle wise, not in terms of different abilities like Senjus.

Man your arguments just fall on the line of baseless and opinionated, don't they?

I obviously don't think that's the case.

Has nothing to do with the Clan's potential, because I was talking about his own potential.

Which is irrelevant.

 

[lndra]

Think about counterpart as an equivalent from the other clan. Uchihas are greater than equivalent Senjus in terms of potential. The clan's general potential is just superior. How far can Senjus go relying on their own capacity? Definitely not as far as the Uchihas. This is backed up by whatever we've seen in regards to them so far.

But I think that only pertains to what an Uchiha can do as a transmigrant. I don't believe the potential of an MS Uchiha far surpasses the potential of an Senju of equal footing.

If Madara is Hashirama's equal, then it makes sense. Tobirama and Izuna also fought for decades before Tobirama finally beat him, so that makes sense there.

Tsunade doesn't really have an equal nor is she superior to most Uchiha (at least imo).

I don't think their potential vastly outweigh each other.

I said they were more common than usual during the war but they were still relatively lesser in amount. And the cause of their inferiority was the Senjus' skills which were class leading at that time.

But how can you tell in bold?

If I'm understanding the second part right, are you saying the leader of the Uchiha's were holding them back compared to the Senju's?

In that fight, Madara didn't have Kurama at all. But in their last fight, Madara fought on equal footing with Hashirama despite losing Kurama and being inferior in power. And something which happened previously can safely be discarded in favor of something that happened subsequent to that.

Madara was only capable of fighting on equal footing with Hashirama because he used Kurama in order to counter his full power. By the time that Hashirama removed the Bijuu from Madara, they were later seen on foot and tired (fighting in CQC).

Obviously not. I never said that their Senjuness had no part to play in this. I'm just saying that their Senjuness alone couldn't have competed with Uchihas (the ones who attained their maximum potential).]

But the Manga and DB said that the Senju's competed with the Uchiha's and were on par, if not stronger. What differentiates an Uchiha that fought in the War compared to an Uchiha who attained their maximum potential?

How many times do I have to repeat that I'm talking about his Senju potential, not his potential as himself?

How can we accurately judge the Senju's potential when we've only seen a select few? Isn't it worth talking about the one's we actually know about? Especially since they don't have a KKG.

An Uchiha's full capacity is MS. Not every Uchiha was able to attain that. I've already said that despite being common, MS Uchihas were relatively lesser in amount because not every Uchiha can possibly awaken the MS.

I understand, but the Manga inferred that Uchiha in general have activated MS from the past in order to obtain EMS. However it doesn't specify which date it happened, however Itachi's backstory on it happens after Madara and Izuna awakened it. They both rose to power because they were the first of their Clan to activate such power, but it doesn't say whether or not more Uchiha after them awakened it.

In terms of the Uchiha Clan afterwards, we've seen regular Uchiha activate it too.

Senju was known as the clan of a thousand skills, not Uchihas. If they managed to compete Senjus, they definitely matched them with their own capacity. Uchihas were obviously skilled battle wise, not in terms of different abilities like Senjus.

So basically versatility v. raw battle skills?

 

[The Demon Hawk]

But I think that only pertains to what an Uchiha can do as a transmigrant. I don't believe the potential of an MS Uchiha far surpasses the potential of an Senju of equal footing.

Sure a transmigrant's potential goes way higher, but even a regular MS Uchiha can outdo an equivalent Senju in terms of potential. MS will grant more power than SM generally especially because of Susanoo. The Senju's potential can get stronger if he has a dope KKG, but the same can be said for an Uchiha who has some killer MS ability. But generally (on average), an MS Uchiha will be stronger than a SM Senju, both being at the peak of their potential. In fact, certain Uchihas will even be able to gain SM taking their potential even higher, something which the Senjus can't replicate for Uchiha powers.

If Madara is Hashirama's equal, then it makes sense. Tobirama and Izuna also fought for decades before Tobirama finally beat him, so that makes sense there.

Tsunade doesn't really have an equal nor is she superior to most Uchiha (at least imo).

I don't think their potential vastly outweigh each other.

Well, that's if you're talking about counterparts who matched each other in capability and strength. That goes beyond what they can do with their clan's endowment.

But how can you tell in bold?

I think you already got the answer to this later down the post.

If I'm understanding the second part right, are you saying the leader of the Uchiha's were holding them back compared to the Senju's?

Nah, definitely not holding them back. If I guess correctly, I think you got the answer to this as well later down the line.

Madara was only capable of fighting on equal footing with Hashirama because he used Kurama in order to counter his full power. By the time that Hashirama removed the Bijuu from Madara, they were later seen on foot and tired (fighting in CQC).

And by the time they were seen on foot, the scene had changed and it was raining and even their state was much worse, which means they reached this state after quite a long subsequent fight, which was done without Kurama.

Plus, the fight lasted for a full day. And out of that time, Kurama didn't get a lot of battle time. He was removed relatively early on.

But the Manga and DB said that the Senju's competed with the Uchiha's and were on par, if not stronger.

Even I say that.

What differentiates an Uchiha that fought in the War compared to an Uchiha who attained their maximum potential?

Not much. Most of the Uchihas who fought in the war probably had attained their maximum potential. They were inferior despite their raw potential being greater because they just didn't have a lot of different abilities and skills like the Senjus AND because not every Uchiha could blossom their full potential, leaving them at the shorter end of the stick.

How can we accurately judge the Senju's potential when we've only seen a select few? Isn't it worth talking about the one's we actually know about? Especially since they don't have a KKG.

I've answered this above.

I understand, but the Manga inferred that Uchiha in general have activated MS from the past in order to obtain EMS. However it doesn't specify which date it happened, however Itachi's backstory on it happens after Madara and Izuna awakened it. They both rose to power because they were the first of their Clan to activate such power, but it doesn't say whether or not more Uchiha after them awakened it.

Yes, quite a lot of them awakened MS presumably, but they were still relatively lesser in amount.

In terms of the Uchiha Clan afterwards, we've seen regular Uchiha activate it too.

Yeah, definitely.

So basically versatility v. raw battle skills?

Yes, but Senjus had raw battle skills too. It's more like greater versatility based capability vs greater potential.

 

[Jay of spades]

A clan is an group of blood related individuals with the group ranging from hundreds to maybe even thousands. I agree that itachi, madara,shusui, and sasuke are op as hell, but they aren't a good representation of the uchiha sense they are on a different level. besides its been said a few times that senju>= uchiha . Also saying that the senju without hashi is weak is stupid. They were fighting each other before hashi and madara's birth so... They have been equals for a while.

 

[giostep]

As far as i am concerned Hamura = SO6P the potential of the Byakugan = potential of Sharingan only difference is that uchiha are damn near given a transcript of how to get it stronger, while hyuugas are not...Also given that uchihas are important through out the entire series and hyugas only got a small portion of the spot light throughout the series...

 

[unknownvillain1254]

As far as i am concerned Hamura = SO6P the potential of the Byakugan = potential of Sharingan only difference is that uchiha are damn near given a transcript of how to get it stronger, while hyuugas are not...Also given that uchihas are important through out the entire series and hyugas only got a small portion of the spot light throughout the series...

That man gets it

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

Did you ever see Sasuke cast IT or even claim to be able to do so? Nope. Moreover, Sasuke' blocking IT proves nothing in whether he can cast IT or not, it just means his Susano'O can block it. I don't get how you can get blocking an attack = able to use that attack. What? As for Obito, do recall that he was going to use the Shunju tree to cast IT and not his own SHARINGAN and RINNEGAN eyes. Why? Because those eyes can't cast IT.

IT is a Rinnegan technique, we are told this and shown this. The Rinnesharingan is a Rinnegan, it was called one in the Manga and explicitly shown to be one (the eyes of those cast under IT from a Rinnesharingan eye takes on the appearance of the Rinnegan). It's just simply the eyes above the normal Rinnegan, or the "original" state if you'd prefer (or Rinnegn + Juubi please take note on "Nine" tomoe. To dispel IT you need Rinnegan + Nine Tailed Beasts). Not only this, only a Rinnegan can counter a Rinnegan technique, which IT is.

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It's pretty damn simple, Obito needed the Shinju tree because his Rinnegan eye was not his own (nor could he handle having two of them), as he isn't a transmigrant he couldn't awaken the Rinnesharingan either. To overcome this he can use the Shinju tree to cast it instead, but this doesn't change the fact nor what we are shown. Rinnegan technique is a Rinnegan power no matter how you put it. This is the only sensible reason why IT can be counted by a Rinnegan and the Manga explicitly calls it a "Rinnegan Genjutsu/technique".

Naruto is not a senju and current hokage naruto would lose low diff to adult sasuke naruto has declined sasuke gas progressed... Just to further solo this post

Naruto is a Senju, the Uzumaki were descended and came from Ashura and the Senju clan. Not only this the transmigrants specifically only reincarnated/transmigrated within their respective clans. If Naruto wasn't a Senju then he wouldn't be a transmigrant in the first place.

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Naruto was originally classified under the Senju's Yang (which he has from being an Uzumaki,) even before he was known as a transmigrant of Ashura, when he and Sasuke were both compared to Hashirama and Madara in the past, both of them still taking on the mantle of Uchiha vs Senju (not Uchiha vs Uzumaki).

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Not only that, but a member of the Uzumaki clan was also directly stated to be of Senju lineage because he was an Uzumaki (Nagato).

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

They died when Sarada was born.

 

[SilverfoxUchiha]

Yes because of hashirama › uchiha by himself... Outside of hashirama no one in that clan could beat Madara and anyway that was 100 years ago and the uchiha have spammed 3 gods since then... Godara, juubito and Rinne Sasuke where as the senju have tsunade...

I couldnt have said it better.

 

[Shogo Makishima]

Uchihas have

Madara
Sasuke
OBito
Itachi
Izuna
Shisui

Other clans can't really compete with that.

 

[sWAy253]

If the Uchiha are so great then why are they all dead?!?!?