Uchiha Tablet: Truth

[Transcendence]

Beautiful thread. This sounds extremely plausible as to what the Rinnegan wielder could read. However I still have my doubts. The Sage discovered chakra but this seems far too abstract for him to say, let alone pass down to one of his son's future descendants.

 

[accept pain]

yes naruto will convince juubi to believe in humanity which so6p could not.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

I read your previous thread about what unlocking MS and EMS allows one to read before I read this (just to get a sense of continuity) and, wow, it is insane how similar we see this story progressing. I wish I had gotten to this thread earlier when you wrote it, but honestly it was just nice to see such a sublime collection of ideas.

If you happen upon my post and want to respond, here is my rebuttal...

First, I agree with you here...

1. The Sharingan's abilities stem from the Juubi

2. The Bijuu were created to learn about humanity. But remember, their collective consiousness have become one now, and this wasn't by accident, the Sage planned it that way. He even told them they would become one again. That is why the Kyuubi and Hachibi have to be absorbed as well, I think in the Kyuubi's case, it may even be willingly.

3. Pretty much the overall message of the Sage and his understanding of balance.

So here is where I disagree.

1. The Juubi and the Sage

We both believe that the Bijuu were created to learn how to live with mankind, however, we must accept the fact that this wasn't a permanent solution, for even the Sage himself said that they could not remain apart forever. With this in mind, I believe that the nature of the Juubi can't be as primordial as you make it sound. In your thread, it seems that the Sage just happened upon the Juubi without understanding much about it. He, of course, saw it's amazing feats and felt its energy in the earth, but I think he understood even more about it than you seem to have written in your thread. If the altercation went as you explained there would be no reason to piece the Juubi back together, something he even left instructions on how to do. So I think that the Juubi was only protecting itself (and by extention nature) and the Sage understood this. He thought Ninshu was the answer (remember he thought it would bring peace) and thought mankind merely needed more time to understand it.


2. The Sage's Understanding of chakra before he encountered the Juubi.

This is purely speculation for it is something we can't really know until we are outright told one thing or the other. But, I have to disagree with your explanation of how the Sage came to understand chakra and here's why.... What we know now, is that the Sage possesed several tools and they all seem to be related to Fuinjutsu (and we don't even know what kind of power his staff held). But as of now, it would seem that his power revolved around sealing more-so than Ninjutsu (Ninshu). You made it seem like his seals were sort of an after-thought after he had exhausted all of his Ninshu techniques (the combining of elements and so forth). And there is a reason I think he wasn't able to control the elements like you've stated and that is because of the Nature of the Rinnengan and its power. I can't tell if you agree with the fact that the Rinnengan comes from the Juubi, but if you do then think about it... What does the Rinnengan allow its user to weild? All of the nature affinities. I think it would be too coincidental to think that the Sage had mastered the affinities, then recieved an eye that granted one all of the affinities. While this is only an assumption, I think it would make more sense that humans being able to control fire, wind, water, earth (Nature) stems from the Rinnengan and when I say Rinnengan I mean the power of the Juubi, and is not something they possesed prior.

I have one more point about the son's, but I'll leave it alone for now..

Anyway, it was a great read, something I can tell you put a lot of creative energy into and I hope you have successfully deciphered Kishi's hints.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I wouldn't be surprised if what was actually written in the Tablet is this:

"I, Rikudou Sennin, have but one final message to the world, I wish I was half as good a Shinobi as Itachi was." - The End

 

[Transcendence]

Yea, I had a similar thought. The Sage probably already knew that there wasn't a true way to defeat the Juubi in a sense, so his own plan was for them to learn about humanity and when they end up getting pieced back together and compiled into the Juubi, the collective "positive" consciousness that the Bijuu's would have attained all those years, would sway the supposed negativity of the original Juubi. But clearly this isn't the case since basically all the Bijuu's have a sense of hatred towards humanity because of the way they have been treated. The Sage probably did not predict that at all, but it ended up happening and the Sage's plan basically back fired.

Also TYG, I believe that the Rinnegan came from the Juubi. So much more evidence points towards the Sage getting it after he sealed the Juubi (The Juubi's influence on his body manifested into the Rinnegan much like hate and strong emotion cause Uchiha's to awaken and or further advance the Sharingan), rather than having it before. That's where I base my premise on Naruto getting the Rinnegan. He has the majority of all the Bijuu's chakra barring Shukaku and Hachibi, but that culmination of chakra could eventually lead to the Rinnegan (Technically he does have Hachibi's chakra because when Naruto fought Kurama, the tentacle of Hachibi got cut off and probably still is inside Naruto).

 

[Waltz]

So here is where I disagree.

2. The Sage's Understanding of chakra before he encountered the Juubi.

This is purely speculation for it is something we can't really know until we are outright told one thing or the other. But, I have to disagree with your explanation of how the Sage came to understand chakra and here's why.... What we know now, is that the Sage possesed several tools and they all seem to be related to Fuinjutsu (and we don't even know what kind of power his staff held). But as of now, it would seem that his power revolved around sealing more-so than Ninjutsu (Ninshu). You made it seem like his seals were sort of an after-thought after he had exhausted all of his Ninshu techniques (the combining of elements and so forth). And there is a reason I think he wasn't able to control the elements like you've stated and that is because of the Nature of the Rinnengan and its power. I can't tell if you agree with the fact that the Rinnengan comes from the Juubi, but if you do then think about it... What does the Rinnengan allow its user to weild? All of the nature affinities. I think it would be too coincidental to think that the Sage had mastered the affinities, then recieved an eye that granted one all of the affinities. While this is only an assumption, I think it would make more sense that humans being able to control fire, wind, water, earth (Nature) stems from the Rinnengan and when I say Rinnengan I mean the power of the Juubi, and is not something they possesed prior.

The Rudiments of Fūinjutsu revolves around the application of chakra as, it is a requirement to perform any seal, making it a sub-category under Ninjutsu.

The Rikudō must have had prior knowledge of such things (presumably through earlier research) before facing the Jūbi as he sealed it within himself. It was even stated that upon surfacing, The Rikudō began spreading his ideals through Ninshū as a means to better the world. Stating that the Rikudo did not have the 'Rin'negan' prior to becoming the Jūbi's host is merely conjecture...

 

[Jon Snow.]

Simply divine.Excellent work!

 

[Varrah]

I read your previous thread about what unlocking MS and EMS allows one to read before I read this (just to get a sense of continuity) and, wow, it is insane how similar we see this story progressing. I wish I had gotten to this thread earlier when you wrote it, but honestly it was just nice to see such a sublime collection of ideas.

If you happen upon my post and want to respond, here is my rebuttal...

First, I agree with you here...

1. The Sharingan's abilities stem from the Juubi

2. The Bijuu were created to learn about humanity. But remember, their collective consiousness have become one now, and this wasn't by accident, the Sage planned it that way. He even told them they would become one again. That is why the Kyuubi and Hachibi have to be absorbed as well, I think in the Kyuubi's case, it may even be willingly.

3. Pretty much the overall message of the Sage and his understanding of balance.

So here is where I disagree.

1. The Juubi and the Sage

We both believe that the Bijuu were created to learn how to live with mankind, however, we must accept the fact that this wasn't a permanent solution, for even the Sage himself said that they could not remain apart forever. With this in mind, I believe that the nature of the Juubi can't be as primordial as you make it sound. In your thread, it seems that the Sage just happened upon the Juubi without understanding much about it. He, of course, saw it's amazing feats and felt its energy in the earth, but I think he understood even more about it than you seem to have written in your thread. If the altercation went as you explained there would be no reason to piece the Juubi back together, something he even left instructions on how to do. So I think that the Juubi was only protecting itself (and by extention nature) and the Sage understood this. He thought Ninshu was the answer (remember he thought it would bring peace) and thought mankind merely needed more time to understand it.


2. The Sage's Understanding of chakra before he encountered the Juubi.

This is purely speculation for it is something we can't really know until we are outright told one thing or the other. But, I have to disagree with your explanation of how the Sage came to understand chakra and here's why.... What we know now, is that the Sage possesed several tools and they all seem to be related to Fuinjutsu (and we don't even know what kind of power his staff held). But as of now, it would seem that his power revolved around sealing more-so than Ninjutsu (Ninshu). You made it seem like his seals were sort of an after-thought after he had exhausted all of his Ninshu techniques (the combining of elements and so forth). And there is a reason I think he wasn't able to control the elements like you've stated and that is because of the Nature of the Rinnengan and its power. I can't tell if you agree with the fact that the Rinnengan comes from the Juubi, but if you do then think about it... What does the Rinnengan allow its user to weild? All of the nature affinities. I think it would be too coincidental to think that the Sage had mastered the affinities, then recieved an eye that granted one all of the affinities. While this is only an assumption, I think it would make more sense that humans being able to control fire, wind, water, earth (Nature) stems from the Rinnengan and when I say Rinnengan I mean the power of the Juubi, and is not something they possesed prior.

I have one more point about the son's, but I'll leave it alone for now..

Anyway, it was a great read, something I can tell you put a lot of creative energy into and I hope you have successfully deciphered Kishi's hints.

1.) Hence, towards the end an imprint is mentioned, with before instances faintly hinting at the Jūbi being a spawn that reawakened from either the earth itself or Rikudō's negativity.

2.) Your claim is speculation as well, the basis of the Rin'negan in this thread led to the understanding of the energies existing within living beings. And as I stated before, the Rin'negan is an independent factor of the Jūbi, as shown when Madara only needed the other portion of Rikudō's genetics to achieve the Rin'negan [Hashirama] and not become the Jinchūriki of the Jūbi to reclaim it. Furthermore, people in Rikudō's era could not control any elements until Rikudō preached the truth of chakra. Chakra is an energy that takes on the mannerisms and appearance of another substance or energy. When chakra does this, it can be spliced or combined to allow one to control the influenced portions of that substance or energy that are already preexisting or are also created by the user. Such a "truth" was only found only after out Rikudō preached about the nature of chakra and not before. Which as you averred, is after hosting the Jūbi, but I've already dispelled that claim. ​

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I think the residual essence of the Jūbi is present in all of the Senju and Uchiha Ancestors' descendants, that is why Madara was able to awaken the Rinnegan by combining Senju and Uchiha DNA, though it took him a lifetime to do it, so I don't think it negates the possibility that the Rinnegan came from the Jūbi because Madara was able to awaken it without being the entity's Jin, since the residual essence of both body and eye are present in the combined DNA of Senju and Uchiha.

 

[Wakizashi]

i so enjoyed this! i want to know where you got this! this is something that explains a lot.

 

[Varrah]

I think the residual essence of the Jūbi is present in all of the Senju and Uchiha Ancestors' descendants, that is why Madara was able to awaken the Rinnegan by combining Senju and Uchiha DNA, though it took him a lifetime to do it, so I don't think it negates the possibility that the Rinnegan came from the Jūbi because Madara was able to awaken it without being the entity's Jin, since the residual essence of both body and eye are present in the combined DNA of Senju and Uchiha.

I thought about this; though mind's split and I ask: how did Rikudō Sennin overcome the Jūbi without the understanding of chakra/energies? At best, sealing it in himself spells "Fūinjutsu" a "jutsu." Jutsu requires chakra, chakra was used differently before the Sage preached of it. To understand chakra, and in all instances that he is frontal is shown, he is not without the Rin'negan.​

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

​

I thought about this; though mind's split and I ask: how did Rikudō Sennin overcome the Jūbi without the understanding of chakra/energies? At best, sealing it in himself spells "Fūinjutsu" a "jutsu." Jutsu requires chakra, chakra was used differently before the Sage preached of it. To understand chakra, and in all instances that he is frontal is shown, he is not without the Rin'negan.​

We don't know yet the details on how Rikudou fought the Juubi, but safe to say he had Ninjutsu esp. Fuuinjutsu when he did, but I don't think it necessitates the Rikudou possessing the said Doujutsu before confronting and containing the Juubi. I find the similarities between the Juubi and the Rinnegan as more than mere coincidence: The Rinnegan is able to bring forth all Ninjutsu, the Juubi is the source of all Chakra which fuels Ninjutsu, I see no reason why one is not connected to the other, not to mention it raises more questions than answers: How did Rikudou awaken the Rinnegan if it did not come from the Juubi? seeing that it possesses divine attributes and the Juubi being the divine personification of nature itself, and I don't think it's mere coincidence either that the Rinnegan resembles the Juubi's eyes without the Tomoes, we will have to wait and see what Masashi's explanation will be.

 

[Wakizashi]

We don't know yet the details on how Rikudou fought the Juubi, but safe to say he had Ninjutsu esp. Fuuinjutsu when he did, but I don't think it necessitates the Rikudou possessing the said Doujutsu before confronting and containing the Juubi. I find the similarities between the Juubi and the Rinnegan as more than mere coincidence: The Rinnegan is able to bring forth all Ninjutsu, the Juubi is the source of all Chakra which fuels Ninjutsu, I see no reason why one is not connected to the other, not to mention it raises more questions than answers: How did Rikudou awaken the Rinnegan if it did not come from the Juubi? seeing that it possesses divine attributes and the Juubi being the divine personification of nature itself, and I don't think it's mere coincidence either that the Rinnegan resembles the Juubi's eyes without the Tomoes, we will have to wait and see what Masashi's explanation will be.

It was said that the juubi's eyes resembled the sages but with the juubi using techniques that he was confronted with for the first time shows that the eyes that the juubi had was able to use the sharingan abilities and the abilities of the rinnegan simultaneously.

Do you think that it could be the higher level of rinnegan?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

It was said that the juubi's eyes resembled the sages but with the juubi using techniques that he was confronted with for the first time shows that the eyes that the juubi had was able to use the sharingan abilities and the abilities of the rinnegan simultaneously.

Do you think that it could be the higher level of rinnegan?

It wasn't specifically stated that the Jūbi used both Sharingan and Rinnegan abilities when he battled the Rikūdo, all that was stated in the manga is that they did combat and the Rikūdo emerged victorious, imo the Rinnegan is the regulated/controlled Dojutsu of the Juubi's powers that is why it does not have Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukuyomi, etc. while the Sharingan is the corrupted/leaked eye that manifests the mentioned abilities that started when the Uchiha Ancestor was influenced by the essence of the Jūbi inside him.

 

[Wakizashi]

It wasn't specifically stated that the Jūbi used both Sharingan and Rinnegan abilities when he battled the Rikūdo, all that was stated in the manga is that they did combat and the Rikūdo emerged victorious, imo the Rinnegan is the regulated/controlled Dojutsu of the Juubi's powers that is why it does not have Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukuyomi, etc. while the Sharingan is the corrupted/leaked eye that manifests the mentioned abilities that started when the Uchiha Ancestor was influenced by the essence of the Jūbi inside him.

that makes since! And that can also be the reason why they must acquire those abilities with their eyes in order to awaken the rinnegan along with the senju body or Dna.

What i took note of in the thread is when the sage made the decision between the older and younger son. when the older son replied with his answer it struck fear in the sage that he would be like those devotees that use Ninshu/Ninjutsu for their personal gain.

In this light i can understand where the sage was coming from.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I know this is just conjecture in my part, but the only way I could see Rikūdo possessing the Rinnegan prior to sealing the Jūbi is that both of them had a master-student relationship, that it was the Jūbi who taught Rikūdo the nature of chakra and gave him the Rinnegan, only for them to have a falling-out in the end which necessitated Rikūdo in sealing the creature.

 

[Varrah]

We don't know yet the details on how Rikudou fought the Juubi, but safe to say he had Ninjutsu esp. Fuuinjutsu when he did, but I don't think it necessitates the Rikudou possessing the said Doujutsu before confronting and containing the Juubi. I find the similarities between the Juubi and the Rinnegan as more than mere coincidence: The Rinnegan is able to bring forth all Ninjutsu, the Juubi is the source of all Chakra which fuels Ninjutsu, I see no reason why one is not connected to the other, and I don't think it's mere coincidence either that the Rinnegan resembles the Juubi's eyes without the Tomoes, we will have to wait and see what Masashi's explanation will be.

That is the question, whether they are connected in the before or after is little in occurrence to presumptions. To perform either one is a jutsu. To use either either one requires chakra. Being exclaimed, Rikudō Sennin found the truth of chakra before the happening of the Jūbi. This is the focal point, the second is the questioning of the initially, or later period: when did Rikudō Sennin possess the Rin'negan? Once again, the concern of surmises are pitiably firelit. There offerings are weak and serve ultimately no weight.

Now Jūbi, when Rikudō is shown from a frontal view in all instances, he has the Rin'negan. Thus, question two is brought up again: when did Rikudō Sennin possess the Rin'negan? Now we add on, before becoming a Jinchūriki or after? Bear in mind when Rikudō discovered the truth of chakra. ​

 

[Wakizashi]

​

That is the question, whether they are connected in the before or after is little in occurrence to presumptions. To perform either one is a jutsu. To use either either one requires chakra. Being exclaimed, Rikudō Sennin found the truth of chakra before the happening of the Jūbi. This is the focal point, the second is the questioning of the initially, or later period: when did Rikudō Sennin possess the Rin'negan? Once again, the concern of surmises are pitiably firelit. There offerings are weak and serve ultimately no weight.

Now Jūbi, when Rikudō is shown from a frontal view in all instances, he has the Rin'negan. Thus, question two is brought up again: when did Rikudō Sennin possess the Rin'negan? Now we add on, before becoming a Jinchūriki or after? Bear in mind when Rikudō discovered the truth of chakra. ​

Rikudo Sennin kept reiterating that ninjutsu is something that he learned from the earth. He also brought in the inscriptions that the juubi was something from the earth itself. so do you think that the juubi was teaching him ninjutsu without his knowing and the juubi is just the manifestation of the evil in the earth?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Rikudo Sennin kept reiterating that ninjutsu is something that he learned from the earth. He also brought in the inscriptions that the juubi was something from the earth itself. so do you think that the juubi was teaching him ninjutsu without his knowing and the juubi is just the manifestation of the evil in the earth?

My thoughts exactly, however I don't think the Jūbi is evil, I think it was he who taught Rikūdo the nature of Chakra, and when the Jūbi saw humanity's abuse in using Ninjutsu for violent means that is when the Jūbi decided to eradicate humanity, only for Rikūdo to be forced to stop him by any means necessary, here we see again the interplay of dualism.

 

[Varrah]

My thoughts exactly, however I don't think the Jūbi is evil, I think it was he who taught Rikūdo the nature of Chakra, and when the Jūbi saw humanity's abuse in using Ninjutsu for violent means that is when the Jūbi decided to eradicate humanity, only for Rikūdo to be forced to stop him by any means necessary, here we see again the interplay of dualism.

Another branch the thread,though Rikūdo took these teachings differently from the Jūbi and preached about the "the nature of man." I detailed that, and showed man using Rikūdo's teachings destructively, Jūbi barges in, fight with Rikūdo, etc. etc.

May pull it if the Jūbi is shown not be mindful as its portions: Kurama, Gyūki, others.​