Turkey coup

[paratise]

Wait, so the Coup was by Gulenists? I thought it was in the name of secularism or something.

Gulenists, at media and social level tried to lean on secular side to getting close to other opposition bodies even though they were themselves. The scripture read on TV though, was not reflective on them. If anything it pushed a part of blame to seculars unfairly, though Gulenists are were religious themselves.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

Gulenists, at media and social level tried to lean on secular side to getting close to other opposition bodies even though they were themselves. The scripture read on TV though, was not reflective on them. If anything it pushed a part of blame to seculars unfairly, though Gulenists are were religious themselves.

I don't really get it. So they're religious but they're Secular but the media tried to paint them in a different way? Sorry I'm so stupid.

 

[WhistleBlower]

No actually, he is actively turning the country in a mass of wreckage along with his government.

-Our foreign relations is horrible, we had better reputation during straining times like Cyprus conflict or WW2. Country is losing allyship with Western block while driving Eastern block away with Russian plane scandal and support of ISIS and heating the war in Syria.

-Economy is going downhill aswell, our tourism sector bombed this summer with little to no visitors, while this country was preferred by tourists all over the world. Not to mention most of the money for economy relies in "hot money" came by privitazing country's major and valuable companies-to his allies and foreigners.

-Corruption; the tape scandals in 2k14 tell it all. The speeches in those tapes by high rank politicians, including Erdogan himself expose how much money grubbing they did. Those tapes also reveal Davutoglu (former minister of foreign relation, brought to be PM then allegadely forced to resign by president) having intention to spark conflict in Syria and Erdogan speaking to a journalist and making him write news for himself.

-Education, many highchools been turning into Islamic highschool. These highschools are becoming so wide spreads many children have to go them for not having much options in closer districts. More than 1million students are getting raised in these places, away from reasons of science. And our qualified universities which used to get ranked in top 500 worldwide are getting lower.

-Coup; the people who attempted the coop are Gulenists are another Islamist group which were very close to current government, until their seperation about 2 years ago. They put each others' men in high ranks in many places-including military.

-Human rights; his Islamic tendencies push Alevi, Christian, Jewish, non-believer citizens away and increase the pressure on them. Minority ethnic groups like Armenians, Kurds are not gaining more, in fact operations in south east caused huge conflicts in their lives. LGBT parade got cancelled for no legitemate reasons. Murder towards women increased 1400%, he directly said men and women are not equals, rapists and abusers are getting away with short term punishments most often.

-Journalism, several journalists got punishment for daring to critisize him, these punishments include prison sentence.

-Many sites are getting constructed despite an abundance of them being against city development plans, at green areas for public, at places damage the city silhouette or at the risk of natural disasters like flood or earthquake. These constructions also tie with corruption.

-We had over 10 terrorist attacks in last 1year, these were from ISIS and PKK, the complete opposites but we are both of their enemies. We as in regular people. I can not say much about this because my heart clenches when i think of all these attacks on hundreds of fellow citizens.

Like, these are only a part of whole deal. Jusging by your usage of insult that is "khala", i assume you are yet another narrow minded Sunni Arab who insert himself in shallow wet Islamic Turkey fantasies. Also you love Erdogan, for the virtue of being Islamic enough for mindless Islamists. Afterall what matters more than a religion right? Where are politics and human rights? Economy? Good foreign relations??? We got alhamdullillah subhanallal bismillah and all those words coming out yayyyyy.

Well read this closely you gerizekalı, you are just another vallah bro with no regardes to a basic humanity. All the need for your type is someone who spouts enough Islamic stuff to satisfy your Islamism.

Erdogan is NOT suppose to be an Islamic leader. He is the president of a constitutionally secular country and should be judged for that position.

Islamists means a radical and intolerant person who believes in religion of Islam. They put religion ahead of anything, atleast publicly and be violent about it.
This is an example for his Islamism:

You must be registered for see links

Also you can read my above reply to that salafi goon.
He is not a secular person...please stop man i tend to like you. We had presidents before and nation was still mostly Muslim.
He is not like pretending for appeal, that is like saying Thomas Jefferson was pretending for appeal of a mostly white country... Either way there is oppression and persecution getting applied.


Merhaba clueless turd; i am from Türkiye.

You don't know shit, you ain't shit, you have no place to lecture people in shit.
Go to pimp that is Saudi King if you love Islamic leaders maybe he finds you a fine job. I am sure you will get somewhere due to your ass licking skills and display of spouting mindless politics. Maybe you combine both.

Wtf calm your tits down woman! When i was referring to unkowing fools commenting on this thread i meant people who arent from turkey or of mature age. But you are living in Turkey so i guess you would know better of the entire situation.

also im far from a islamist or salafi XD im sunni and that it. I dont get all the other sects tbh theres too many out there. And im not arab XD

Why the fk would i go to saudia for? And fk the so called "islamic leaders of muslim countries" . How many muslims are sufferring but they are not batting an eye .

Bottom line is, im not arguing with u. Theres enough muslims fighting muslims happening around the world. Lets just both apologise to each other for offending each other. Peace out

 

[paratise]

I don't really get it. So they're religious but they're Secular but the media tried to paint them in a different way? Sorry I'm so stupid.

They are very religious, they do not have secular tendencies. For example they used to have courses all over Turkey for preparing standardized tests (now the system is shut down) to get in uni and highschool, they were not letting a female and male students sit side by side, 13 year old students. In addition, the current ruling party's actions and ideas were endorsed by many liberals of the country. Stuff like that happens.

After their relations cracked with government they played the opposition for a while. Until now, the strain was high but now they are getting outright demolished.

It is not stupid, at least you are not overstepping your boundries an admit you do not know. Basicly, things are between two Islamists who used to be side by side. Similarities does not mean lack of conflict.

Wtf calm your tits down woman! When i was referring to unkowing fools commenting on this thread i meant people who arent from turkey or of mature age. But you are living in Turkey so i guess you would know better of the entire situation.

also im far from a islamist or salafi XD im sunni and that it. I dont get all the other sects tbh theres too many out there. And im not arab XD

Why the fk would i go to saudia for? And fk the so called "islamic leaders of muslim countries" . How many muslims are sufferring but they are not batting an eye .

Bottom line is, im not arguing with u. Theres enough muslims fighting muslims happening around the world. Lets just both apologise to each other for offending each other. Peace out

I am not a Muslim.

You said this:

Sad that someone wanted to usurp our great leader, Edrogan. His one of the greatest leaders we've had islamic wise.
And for those insulting him or muslims in general, get your heads out of your asses you ignorant khara's.

You lecture someone to research better then resort into "idk". You outright called him your Islamic leader for some reason then insulted people who oppose to him. If you lack knowledge or experience do not make comments that may incline people to think your way especially in serious matters out of your lane.

I dunno what "calming down" i am suppose to do, this is not a debate this is my life, millions of lives in fact.

Many Sunni Muslims, esp. from gulf states uplift him to unimaginable levels to be modern era caliphate. Rightfully so I suspect his fans outside of this country as they think they can speak over us in this country's matters and spread opinions with little knowledge.

 

[WhistleBlower]

I bid you farewell, nothing more to discuss with you.

 

[Michelle]

And then we will have another country with middle east like situation.

Not that I care as long as my country still peaceful.

Lucky you, ignorant. No place on Earth is paceful enough to can say it.

No actually, he is actively turning the country in a mass of wreckage along with his government.

-Our foreign relations is horrible, we had better reputation during straining times like Cyprus conflict or WW2. Country is losing allyship with Western block while driving Eastern block away with Russian plane scandal and support of ISIS and heating the war in Syria.

-Economy is going downhill aswell, our tourism sector bombed this summer with little to no visitors, while this country was preferred by tourists all over the world. Not to mention most of the money for economy relies in "hot money" came by privitazing country's major and valuable companies-to his allies and foreigners.

-Corruption; the tape scandals in 2k14 tell it all. The speeches in those tapes by high rank politicians, including Erdogan himself expose how much money grubbing they did. Those tapes also reveal Davutoglu (former minister of foreign relation, brought to be PM then allegadely forced to resign by president) having intention to spark conflict in Syria and Erdogan speaking to a journalist and making him write news for himself.

-Education, many highchools been turning into Islamic highschool. These highschools are becoming so wide spreads many children have to go them for not having much options in closer districts. More than 1million students are getting raised in these places, away from reasons of science. And our qualified universities which used to get ranked in top 500 worldwide are getting lower.

-Coup; the people who attempted the coop are Gulenists are another Islamist group which were very close to current government, until their seperation about 2 years ago. They put each others' men in high ranks in many places-including military.

-Human rights; his Islamic tendencies push Alevi, Christian, Jewish, non-believer citizens away and increase the pressure on them. Minority ethnic groups like Armenians, Kurds are not gaining more, in fact operations in south east caused huge conflicts in their lives. LGBT parade got cancelled for no legitemate reasons. Murder towards women increased 1400%, he directly said men and women are not equals, rapists and abusers are getting away with short term punishments most often.

-Journalism, several journalists got punishment for daring to critisize him, these punishments include prison sentence.

-Many sites are getting constructed despite an abundance of them being against city development plans, at green areas for public, at places damage the city silhouette or at the risk of natural disasters like flood or earthquake. These constructions also tie with corruption.

-We had over 10 terrorist attacks in last 1year, these were from ISIS and PKK, the complete opposites but we are both of their enemies. We as in regular people. I can not say much about this because my heart clenches when i think of all these attacks on hundreds of fellow citizens.

Like, these are only a part of whole deal. Jusging by your usage of insult that is "khala", i assume you are yet another narrow minded Sunni Arab who insert himself in shallow wet Islamic Turkey fantasies. Also you love Erdogan, for the virtue of being Islamic enough for mindless Islamists. Afterall what matters more than a religion right? Where are politics and human rights? Economy? Good foreign relations??? We got alhamdullillah subhanallal bismillah and all those words coming out yayyyyy.

Well read this closely you gerizekalı, you are just another vallah bro with no regardes to a basic humanity. All the need for your type is someone who spouts enough Islamic stuff to satisfy your Islamism.

Erdogan is NOT suppose to be an Islamic leader. He is the president of a constitutionally secular country and should be judged for that position.

Islamists means a radical and intolerant person who believes in religion of Islam. They put religion ahead of anything, atleast publicly and be violent about it.
This is an example for his Islamism:

You must be registered for see links

Also you can read my above reply to that salafi goon.
He is not a secular person...please stop man i tend to like you. We had presidents before and nation was still mostly Muslim.
He is not like pretending for appeal, that is like saying Thomas Jefferson was pretending for appeal of a mostly white country... Either way there is oppression and persecution getting applied.


Merhaba clueless turd; i am from Türkiye.

You don't know shit, you ain't shit, you have no place to lecture people in shit.
Go to pimp that is Saudi King if you love Islamic leaders maybe he finds you a fine job. I am sure you will get somewhere due to your ass licking skills and display of spouting mindless politics. Maybe you combine both.

---------

Addition; i am not feeling fine (predictably) so i may have made some grammar mistakes.
Goodnight (except for islamists).

Your post is very detailed and i understood much more about Turkey than after reading media stuff. I agree with you and i am very sad about people dying in Turkey, and social and economical problems which comes with it.
The worst come from schools which you say changed so much and corruption

Is a single thing that i dont understand, what is the meaning of the word vallah in your post?
Is funny because we have a maybe similar expression but we put instead "turkish". I guess it comes from far history and is not related at all with these days.

 

[paratise]

Lucky you, ignorant. No place on Earth is paceful enough to can say it.

Your post is very detailed and i understood much more about Turkey than after reading media stuff. I agree with you and i am very sad about people dying in Turkey, and social and economical problems which comes with it.
The worst come from schools which you say changed so much and corruption

Is a single thing that i dont understand, what is the meaning of the word vallah in your post?
Is funny because we have a maybe similar expression but we put instead "turkish". I guess it comes from far history and is not related at all with these days.

Thank you for your interest and sympathy. I am very sad too, i wish things would be better off but country needs to be fixed in values of republic and progression.

Vallah/vallahi means "i swear" in Arabic, but used in several other languages in MENACA(middle east, north africa, central asia) since Islamic expansion left impacts in languages. "Vallah bro" refers to Sunni men who go on about Islam and all around being douchey and ignorant.
What you put instead "Turkish" i did not understand.

 

[nefraiko]

paratise I just want to tell you something that I've noticed in your writings and that bothers me a little.

you use the word "caliphe" as a bas word refering to radicalism while in fact this means a leader of a muslim country. not a ruler but a leader, as leaders have visions, etc.
there are many books that talk about how the world is lacking leaders and is full of rullers, and how it needs leaders.

I don't find anything wrong about the word "calif" or "califat" and I'm proud of it as it is part of my history, as well as yours because turkey has adopted willingly and spread islam for centurys. weather you're muslim or not you should feel proud of this word and not use it like the westeners.
for them it can be a bad word because it means a person that will lead the great muslim world to a purpose, they fear that, and it's understandable. but you are not a westener and never will be, be proud of your origins, you have golden origins.

 

[Deadlift]

paratise I just want to tell you something that I've noticed in your writings and that bothers me a little.

you use the word "caliphe" as a bas word refering to radicalism while in fact this means a leader of a muslim country. not a ruler but a leader, as leaders have visions, etc.
there are many books that talk about how the world is lacking leaders and is full of rullers, and how it needs leaders.

I don't find anything wrong about the word "calif" or "califat" and I'm proud of it as it is part of my history, as well as yours because turkey has adopted willingly and spread islam for centurys. weather you're muslim or not you should feel proud of this word and not use it like the westeners.
for them it can be a bad word because it means a person that will lead the great muslim world to a purpose, they fear that, and it's understandable. but you are not a westener and never will be, be proud of your origins, you have golden origins.

Can you make an example of a well known person that you consider a real leader?

 

[Michelle]

Thank you for your interest and sympathy. I am very sad too, i wish things would be better off but country needs to be fixed in values of republic and progression.

Vallah/vallahi means "i swear" in Arabic, but used in several other languages in MENACA(middle east, north africa, central asia) since Islamic expansion left impacts in languages. "Vallah bro" refers to Sunni men who go on about Islam and all around being douchey and ignorant.
What you put instead "Turkish" i did not understand.

I didnt know that, vallah is also an old population around the Dabube river and i thought you mean a person from that part of the world. They fought with the Otoman empire so ancient turkish and vallahs were enemies many centuries.
Is not easy to explain but i misunderstood. Sorry

 

[nefraiko]

Can you make an example of a well known person that you consider a real leader?

the prophet Mohammad.

Al Hajjaj Ibn Yusuf one of the greatest ommayads dynastie generals who played a key role in the unification of Arabia and strenghthen the ommayad dynastie.

Salah a Din also known as Saladin.

Harun a Rashid the great Abbasid's dynastie Calif that encouraged science among many things.

abd el krim al khatabi the great berber leader that lead the moroccan resistance in the Rif that killed thousands and thousands of european invaders in the colonization war called "pacification war" by the colonization forces. the spanish and french had to use chimical weapons to "pacify" these folks. due to the scarcity of the ressouces the resistants weren't allowed to miss, every bullet had to meet the target, ingenius tactics and strategies were adopted by this spanish nightmare that is Abd al krim al khatabi, known worldwide.

ahmad a zarktouni one of the symbols of the moroccan resistance against the french and the collaborators

Erdogan that jumped with the economy of his country to make turky one heavy player in the world geopolitic, of course the USA and europe treat him with all the bad names, he's a threat.

and hundreds of hundreds of thousands of people that had a vision and purposes that they defended with their lives sacrificing everything. their integrity have made thousands of people follow them and their names were forever carved in history. there is the world before the leader, and the world after the leader

 

[paratise]

paratise I just want to tell you something that I've noticed in your writings and that bothers me a little.

you use the word "caliphe" as a bas word refering to radicalism while in fact this means a leader of a muslim country. not a ruler but a leader, as leaders have visions, etc.
there are many books that talk about how the world is lacking leaders and is full of rullers, and how it needs leaders.

I don't find anything wrong about the word "calif" or "califat" and I'm proud of it as it is part of my history, as well as yours because turkey has adopted willingly and spread islam for centurys. weather you're muslim or not you should feel proud of this word and not use it like the westeners.
for them it can be a bad word because it means a person that will lead the great muslim world to a purpose, they fear that, and it's understandable. but you are not a westener and never will be, be proud of your origins, you have golden origins.

Caliphs are leaders of Muslim world/people, not countries.

You need to understand that Turkey is a secular country. I myself is a pantheist, and me along with other fellow non-Sunni population of Turkey; be they are Alevi, Christian, Jewish, atheist, agnostic etc. are entitled to basic human rights and a non-secular country is not giving these.

There are estimated to be 5.5 million non-believer population in Turkey, 20% of country is Alevi and Jews and Christians make up more than thousands. And as i said, constitution undeniably emphasizes on secularism as an unchangable aspect of country, so no caliph or pope or buddhist priest is suppose to be our leader.

Values of republic is very well above any man that comes and goes. I am not proud or ashamed about my origins, i am just like another Japanese or Nigerian or French person on the basis of value based on ethnicity. I am not going to endorse bullsht just because Ottoman Empire is my country's past, my father infact has non-Ottoman Turkic origins.

Why, as a Turk would be proud of Islamic expansions? Is an American suppose to look at Iraq war and say "yeah that shit is dank"? Not to mention Turkish people were forcibly converted to Islam to begin with. And in Ottoman Empire; Turks were lower class people, they had much less education than Christian populations and were generally farmers/villagers or fodders for war. After Jelali revolts Turks of Anatolia were persecuted and dispersed everywhere, thus why a strong presence on Turks in Balkans occured. People had a saying "etrak-ı bi idrak" which meant "dumb Turk" for my people.

I do not owe anyone shit, most definetely an oppressive empire. I am not a Western, i am defensive towards my people or country if there is a wrong doing but that empire is no better than anyone to have my approval. Afterall when Ottoman dynasty was cooperating and surrendering to British and French invaders, the people who built the secular republic were fighting for these lands. Thanks to republician values we have education and independence; Ottomans could provide neither and their pages are closed in book of history. Do not try to open them.

I didnt know that, vallah is also an old population around the Dabube river and i thought you mean a person from that part of the world. They fought with the Otoman empire so ancient turkish and vallahs were enemies many centuries.
Is not easy to explain but i misunderstood. Sorry

I am taking you are from Balkans. My mother is a Balkan Turk too. Which country are you from (if i may ask)?

Erdogan that jumped with the economy of his country to make turky one heavy player in the world geopolitic, of course the USA and europe treat him with all the bad names, he's a threat.

and hundreds of hundreds of thousands of people that had a vision and purposes that they defended with their lives sacrificing everything. their integrity have made thousands of people follow them and their names were forever carved in history. there is the world before the leader, and the world after the leader

Erdogan is not a threat to West, this country is suffering a lot right now. Economy is a collosial **** up, with privatizations and selling off our companies to foreigners.

15% of country lives under poverty threshold, unemployment rate is 10%. This country, which have fertile lands is importing stuff like rice and wheat from outside. Due to jet scandal we largely lost a major economical ally that is Russia, many of goods get returned from border. Tourism sector is D.E.A.D.

There was never a point of modern history we had this much terror attacks in succession. I am speaking of suicide attacks in every month in last year.

This country is in God damn Nato in over 50 years, there is no rebellion towards west here. West always supported right wing capitalists in this country.Country is getting weakened and he got supported by West since a long while, if that Time cover says anything. West cooperated with him in refugee deal. At largely he is ally of West and do what they say. Idk how ya pull these revolt fantasies.

People dying left and right is not an inspiration for you non-Turkish ass. Do not try to capitalize off our problems and horrible events. People following a one man cult in this scale is akin to Hitler's era. The culture of obedience.

You are another witless non-Turkish Sunni who is entitled as f×ck to our country. Stay in your lane you know nothing.

 

[Michelle]

I am taking you are from Balkans. My mother is a Balkan Turk too. Which country are you from (if i may ask)?

Romania. We still have in our country a big turkish community from the days when a part of it was under Otoman control.
Despite history i always liked Turkey and wanted to visit it. Now this became impossible for a while.
And not just Turkey, Europe will be a bad place to visit especially in developed parts.
I hope for better news.

 

[nefraiko]

can you stop

why ? I'm I being offensive here ?

why did I receive an infraction? I did not write any bad words, I did not insult and I said that I was exited nipples isn't a bad word. why I'm I having an infraction ? I'm out of this forum

 

[DominiqueX]

I don't find anything wrong about the word "calif" or "califat" and I'm proud of it as it is part of my history, as well as yours because turkey has adopted willingly and spread islam for centurys. weather you're muslim or not you should feel proud of this word and not use it like the westeners.
for them it can be a bad word because it means a person that will lead the great muslim world to a purpose, they fear that, and it's understandable. but you are not a westener and never will be, be proud of your origins, you have golden origins.

This usage of words is exactly what many people dislike and even hate about the islamic culture. All that worshipping and thinking you believe in the best fairy tale in the world. "like the westerners, great muslim world, golden origins," pfft. As if.

 

[nefraiko]

This usage of words is exactly what many people dislike and even hate about the islamic culture. All that worshipping and thinking you believe in the best fairy tale in the world. "like the westerners, great muslim world, golden origins," pfft. As if.

what ? you have the right to be proud of your history and we don't ? do I have to believe that I'm a barbaric shit for you to like me ? bend in your culture ?

muslims don't need your approval, who do you think you are ?

the muslim world is great whether you like it or not, it's their whether you like it or not, and it will rise again despite all of the european world trying so hard to keep it down, wheather you like it or not.

 

[DominiqueX]

what ? you have the right to be proud of your history and we don't ?

I'm not "proud" of my history or culture. Its indifferent to me. You know why? Because it does not belong to me. I have nothing to do with the place where I was born due to pure luck. I'm not responsible for anything that happened here in Europe, or more precisely in Germany, for the record. We can only be proud of things that we achieved ourselves. So, I'm proud of my graduation that I achieved on my own, proud of my friends and family-bonds that I made myself. You get the picture.

Unreasonable pride and honor for cultures and countries belong to the key-problems of humanity. Many people like to take credit for stuff that has nothing to do with them personally and get angry if someone says something against it. Then, in many muslim-communities, so-called "honor killings" happen, which is terribly stupid and sad. Why do Swedish, Danish, Australian, British non-mulsims not commit such crimes? Ever thought about that?

muslims don't need your approval, who do you think you are ?

Never said that. Quote me where I specifically mentioned such a thing.
But you don't need to be Einstein to realize that strongly islam-influenced cultures are far behind modern time and refuse to change and improve towards more tolerance and acceptance.

the muslim world is great whether you like it or not, it's there whether you like it or not, and it will rise again despite all of the european world trying so hard to keep it down, wheather you like it or not.

It doesn't matter if you personally hate "the west". The bad light on muslims and islam is your own damn fault. Your culture strictly follows an ancient, outdated book and rather teaches it's stuff in schools than teaching truly important stuff like actual science. Muslims refuse to take a stand against extremists that use the exact same book to justify their barbaric actions... instead, many muslims just step back from any responsibility and simply say "Nah, these guys are not muslims". But when people show you the "holy books" phrases that glorify violence, the exact same muslims say "no, it's not what it sounds like". Yet, these people agree on banning innocent minorities that just want to be happy while not harming anyone.. and why do they do it? Because it "goes against muslim's or that ancient holy book's pride and honor"

Of course not every muslim is like this. I met many muslims in my school career and never had a problem with them. You know why? Because they were reasonable and adaptive to modern times and had an open heart for acceptance and love.

Muslims will not "rise again" if things continue the way they currently are. If things don't change, muslims probably will eradicate each other instead. Neither is the west trying to "keep islam down". Muslims are doing it themselves with killing their own people everywhere, with supporting tyrants like Erdogan etc. You get the picture.
The only muslims that could use to be "kept down" are those who refuse to adapt to modern times and refuse to be acceptive and tolerant. If you belong to this group, well, then it sucks to be you.

 

[Xlad]

Just lol at these sympathizers.

 

[YowYan]

2 friends of mine were on vacation in Turkey at the time of the coup. I read something about Erdogan being a Armenian and a freemason. Wouldn't surprise me. Just another insider working to bring martial law to Europe and surrounding regions.

 

[Deadlift]

2 friends of mine were on vacation in Turkey at the time of the coup. I read something about Erdogan being a Armenian and a freemason. Wouldn't surprise me. Just another insider working to bring martial law to Europe and surrounding regions.

Hey! You're back! I remember you were active in the first weeks I joined how are you?