Tsunade vs Six Paths of Pain

[Black Wolf]

Considering Jiraya said she could make tasteles and odorless poisons i am going to assume she can release them into the atmosphere I just used the word mist to get the point accross i was not talking about the jutsu. So yes i stick by my scenario and say she beats him with poison. But I can't do that right?

She has no feats with this poison so I am not granting her anything more than what Sakura has done. Again, she would be limited by the amount she can carry on her person.

Jiraya is proof enough she can produce and use odorless poisons to fight i don't need to see her do it, it's not like he said 'she is a master of poison' and did not give us anything to work with. He explicitly stated what her poison can do. She already used a tasteless one on him before by the way.

Slipping poison into an offguard allies meal =/= deployable in battle.

Yes, but again you are putting limits to regeneration you only have a totally different character, which you are assuming AGAIN is better than her regeneration. So i will dismiss all the assumptions about her regeneration when there are no feats to prove otherwise from the character herself.

Not putting any limits to regeneration except the ones we have seen. Madara has seen both Hashirama and Tsunade's regeneration, and he likened Byakugo to Hashirama's regeneration. Hashirama's regeneration has shown its limits, and considering the vast power as well as the involvement of Sage Mode, I have no reason to believe Tsunade's will fare any better. It is an assumption based on an identical jutsu, and certainly beats the no-limits fallacy you are currently trying to sell, by a longshot.

Ever thought that regrowing an arm for basic SM madara would be too chakra taxing? The difference with SM madara and Tsunade is that Tsunade has 2 chakra pools and the 2nd one has years worth of chakra easily(once she is at full power) which is why i theorized she should should be able to regrow a limb because instant regeneration does not have different categories it is what it is except chakra pool has a part to play.

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So Madara, the guy that spams field sized Katons and was able to manifest Perfect Susano'o while simultaneously keeping the Kyuubi under his control, and fought someone like Hashirama, a chakra beast, for an entire day to what was basically a standstill, doesn't have enough chakra? Even when he has Hashirama's face plaqued on his chest? Even though we have seen how much of a chakra boost Hashirama cells can give a person?

EMS Madara already had massive chakra in his own right. Give him Hashirama's cells and Sage Mode, and you still think he will be chakra taxed?

Tell me how she would lose. Tell me how a snake that squeezes and bites can beat her. Everything manda did would be futile, also small katsuya can spit acid too JS.

I don't know, get squished under the biting pressure of Manda's teeth? I don't know where you keep getting this idea that Katsuyu is a walking Yata Mirror.

Slugs have also been slower than snakes yet still we know in the manga that related to summons the slugs will always beat the snake and the snake will always beat the frog and frog always beat the slug. That is a manga fact as well i also have to dismiss?

Where was this ever stated in the manga?

Uhm you are lying now, PS was barely on the field for long. And when it first showed up everyone was more in shock of it and then once they came back to reality it tried to attack them and she attemped to summon kuchiyose. Don't estimate how long PS was on the field by chapter because kishi was showing real time what was happening between them and then what was happening with itachi.

Not lying at all.

Perfect Susano'o stood there for a while, split a mountain apart, and Tsunade did nothing. Hell, why didn't she summon Katsuyu when she and the other Kage were getting beaten down by the Susano'o clones? There were plenty of opportunities to showoff Katsuyu's "power" and none were taken. Katsuyu was summoned as a medical support unit, nothing more.

 

[Black Wolf]

This is getting super off topic. Fact of the matter is, I have no reason to believe Tsunade can outperform Jiraiya.

1. She is slower than base Jiraiya, let alone Sage Mode Jiraiya.
2. She lacks the necessary reflexes to fight multiple opponents of this caliber.
3. She lacks the ninjutsu versatility of Jiraiya, restricted to punches alone.
4. She lacks the super Genjutsu that can end pretty much anyone, given the prep time.
5. She lacks summons that can sense the location of invisible enemies.

Why again should I be giving her the benefit of the doubt when a fighter superior to her in practically everything admitted inferiority to three bodies, and stood no chance against all six? Regeneration, her only true advantage over Jiraiya, is nullified via soul ripping.

 

[Latios]

This has been dragged on to 4 pages ._.

 

[Rike Senju]

This should have stopped at the first page. The obvious winner is pain. Titles are irrelevant, so her being a sannin does not matter. SM jiraiya had an environment advantage and he still lose to pain. SM naruto and his boss summons took pain on directly and still lost, not forgetting deva was not functional at the time. Both of them are quite superior to tsunade in combat. Tsunade loses low diff.

 

[Joshutsu]

She has no feats with this poison so I am not granting her anything more than what Sakura has done. Again, she would be limited by the amount she can carry on her person.



Slipping poison into an offguard allies meal =/= deployable in battle.



Not putting any limits to regeneration except the ones we have seen. Madara has seen both Hashirama and Tsunade's regeneration, and he likened Byakugo to Hashirama's regeneration. Hashirama's regeneration has shown its limits, and considering the vast power as well as the involvement of Sage Mode, I have no reason to believe Tsunade's will fare any better. It is an assumption based on an identical jutsu, and certainly beats the no-limits fallacy you are currently trying to sell, by a longshot.



So Madara, the guy that spams field sized Katons and was able to manifest Perfect Susano'o while simultaneously keeping the Kyuubi under his control, and fought someone like Hashirama, a chakra beast, for an entire day to what was basically a standstill, doesn't have enough chakra? Even when he has Hashirama's face plaqued on his chest? Even though we have seen how much of a chakra boost Hashirama cells can give a person?

EMS Madara already had massive chakra in his own right. Give him Hashirama's cells and Sage Mode, and you still think he will be chakra taxed?



I don't know, get squished under the biting pressure of Manda's teeth? I don't know where you keep getting this idea that Katsuyu is a walking Yata Mirror.



Where was this ever stated in the manga?



Not lying at all.

Perfect Susano'o stood there for a while, split a mountain apart, and Tsunade did nothing. Hell, why didn't she summon Katsuyu when she and the other Kage were getting beaten down by the Susano'o clones? There were plenty of opportunities to showoff Katsuyu's "power" and none were taken. Katsuyu was summoned as a medical support unit, nothing more.

Uhh that doesn't make sense because jiraya knows she can do it, poisons do not need much feats. You can't give her Sakura level poison either, give her the one where not even Shizune could do anything about.

In my scenario she can carry enough no?

It doesn't matter if its deployable it's a strategy and i can use it in a scenario same with the odorless as jiraya confirmed it. Poison aren't jutsu i don't need much feats but to say she a medic has some in her arsenal to use (they are items)

Again don't limit Tsunade's regeneration based on others regeneration since you said no assumptions. Also assumptions come into play there again.

I thin you underestimate how much chakra it could take to do something such as regrowing an arm, JS the volume it takes for smaller wounds is already something to talk about. Regrowing or regenerating body parts isn't exactly elementary.

Katsuya cannot be squished. Where are the mangafacts.

Kuchiyose deadlock, look it up. You should know what a deadlock is though.

And how long do you think that was? PS was formed they are all in shock immidiately swings it's sword they are still in shock. Then they have their mini pep moments and ay says he's not giving up.

PS goes for another swing Tsunade forms handseal at the approaching sword. That's like 5-7 minutes.

Katsuya did not need to be summoned before because like i said noone ever really uses their kuchiyose to fight ninja of that size unless there is another on field.

Once you have things that can harm you can be offensive.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what other jutsu it could have been. but you don't have to answer the discussion has gone ona tangent from the OT.

 

[AnonymousShinobi]

Fight will end like this:

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Deva Solos.

 

[Black Wolf]

Uhh that doesn't make sense because jiraya knows she can do it, poisons do not need much feats. You can't give her Sakura level poison either, give her the one where not even Shizune could do anything about.

I'll give her the ones that have been shown to be deployable in battle, and not stuck into someone's drink who is off guard.

Again don't limit Tsunade's regeneration based on others regeneration since you said no assumptions. Also assumptions come into play there again.

Madara saw Hashirama's regeneration. He saw Tsunade's regeneration. He said the two are similar. Hashirama's regeneration failed to regrow limbs, even when juiced out on Sage Mode, and even when Hashirama's cells in of themselves are regenerative.

I thin you underestimate how much chakra it could take to do something such as regrowing an arm, JS the volume it takes for smaller wounds is already something to talk about. Regrowing or regenerating body parts isn't exactly elementary.

I think you underestimate how difficult it is to fight a chakra beast like Hashirama for an entire day to a stale mate. I think you underestimate how difficult it is to control Bijuu, let alone the most powerful, while simultaneously erecting a megazord sized Susano'o. I think you underestimate the effect Hashirama cells can have on one's chakra.

No idea what to tell you if you think Tsunade has more chakra than Madara juiced out on Hashirama cells. Look what Hashirama cells did to Obito; he was controlling multiple Bijuu while fighting numerous Kage level opponents (Kakashi, Gai, Naruto, Bee), and did not show any signs of exhaustion, stamina-wise. Meanwhile, Madara already had a massive chakra pool prior to Hashirama cells, yet somehow his chakra still isn't adequate?

Katsuya cannot be squished. Where are the mangafacts.

Bitten by teeth I said. Katsuyu has never taken piercing pressure. She was physically squeezed and forced to divide. If he bit her, I have every reason to believe it would have damaged her.

Kuchiyose deadlock, look it up. You should know what a deadlock is though.

Strawman. I never said I don't know what a dead-lock is.

My question: Where was it stated in the manga that Slug beats Snake?

You should also realize the manga's use of "deadlock" is very liberal. Jiraiya and Tsunade were double teaming Orochimaru, yet it was still called a "deadlock." Sasuke, Sakura, and Naruto were fighting together on the same side, yet the chapter was still called "New 3 way Deadlock."

Katsuya did not need to be summoned before because like i said noone ever really uses their kuchiyose to fight ninja of that size unless there is another on field.

So V3 Susano'o clones are not giant summon sized?

 

[Joshutsu]

I'll give her the ones that have been shown to be deployable in battle, and not stuck into someone's drink who is off guard.



Madara saw Hashirama's regeneration. He saw Tsunade's regeneration. He said the two are similar. Hashirama's regeneration failed to regrow limbs, even when juiced out on Sage Mode, and even when Hashirama's cells in of themselves are regenerative.



I think you underestimate how difficult it is to fight a chakra beast like Hashirama for an entire day to a stale mate. I think you underestimate how difficult it is to control Bijuu, let alone the most powerful, while simultaneously erecting a megazord sized Susano'o. I think you underestimate the effect Hashirama cells can have on one's chakra.

No idea what to tell you if you think Tsunade has more chakra than Madara juiced out on Hashirama cells. Look what Hashirama cells did to Obito; he was controlling multiple Bijuu while fighting numerous Kage level opponents (Kakashi, Gai, Naruto, Bee), and did not show any signs of exhaustion, stamina-wise. Meanwhile, Madara already had a massive chakra pool prior to Hashirama cells, yet somehow his chakra still isn't adequate?



Bitten by teeth I said. Katsuyu has never taken piercing pressure. She was physically squeezed and forced to divide. If he bit her, I have every reason to believe it would have damaged her.



Strawman. I never said I don't know what a dead-lock is.

My question: Where was it stated in the manga that Slug beats Snake?

You should also realize the manga's use of "deadlock" is very liberal. Jiraiya and Tsunade were double teaming Orochimaru, yet it was still called a "deadlock." Sasuke, Sakura, and Naruto were fighting together on the same side, yet the chapter was still called "New 3 way Deadlock."



So V3 Susano'o clones are not giant summon sized?

Not hard to chose ways to administer poisons we know she can make in various forms.

Similar. Indeed that it is not same, Tsunade said she could so if you were to say hashirama couldn't noone has disproved Tsunade's claim about herself and her own jutsu. Madara only took note of healing without seals.

You still underestimate the amount of chakra it takes to reconstruct bone muscle nerves and all it's component. I'm well aware of a history lesson. I stated that Tsunade has one chakra pool for herself and her 2nd chakra pool is dedicated to the jutsu it performs for someone with 1 chakra pool using jutsu and all of that which takes chakra and still try to regen a limb from the same chakra pool is different. You should know that.

If she were to be squeezed and broken into smaller katsuya being the invertebrate she is and not exactly having anything internally to be damaged I say try again with your piercing theory.

He can't kil lher. The only thing by manga to kill her as of date is chakra absorption.

Okay then if you know what a deadlock is that how does it work between them? I don't quite know where it's from in the manga atm but i know i read it somewhere that the deadlock is Snake > Frog > Slug >Snake maybe i read it in mythology.

The deadlock is for the kuchiyose not the summoners. OrSasuke > Naruto > Sakura > Sasuke XD

Yet she was still able to knock down the V3 susanos to the ground. Clearly she did not think they were big enough to use katsuya to help her.


Bottom line is you all think pain low diffs her and i have a different opinion. discussing tsunade vs madara is unecessary. So hold your peace.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

oh man .................. reason left this thread along time ago, all i see is pride hmm

 

[Seventh Sama]

Why does this have four pages? SPOP curbstomp Tsunade...

 

[Callypigia]

Tsunade already got beat hard by Deva path.

 

[Black Wolf]

Not hard to chose ways to administer poisons we know she can make in various forms.

Again, creativity running wild with imaginary feats that have never been shown in the manga.

Similar. Indeed that it is not same, Tsunade said she could so if you were to say hashirama couldn't noone has disproved Tsunade's claim about herself and her own jutsu. Madara only took note of healing without seals.

And do we have any reason to believe that Tsunade's regeneration is better than Sage Mode Hashirama's? If so, why hasn't it been distinguished? All we have seen Byakugo regenerate from is non-lethal wounds (i.e. torso stabs). It has never been shown to be able to pop out new limbs, and thus I have no reason to believe it can until either Sakura or Tsunade showcases this ability. Byakugo has had numerous occasions to be "show-cased" by Kishimoto, and every single time it is used to survive chest / stomach wounds.

You still underestimate the amount of chakra it takes to reconstruct bone muscle nerves and all it's component. I'm well aware of a history lesson. I stated that Tsunade has one chakra pool for herself and her 2nd chakra pool is dedicated to the jutsu it performs for someone with 1 chakra pool using jutsu and all of that which takes chakra and still try to regen a limb from the same chakra pool is different. You should know that.

You still underestimate the amount of chakra it takes to Genjutsu the strongest Bijuu to fight for you.
You still underestimate the amount of chakra it takes to manifest mountain sized Perfect Susano'o.
You still underestimate the amount of chakra it takes to spam mountain sized Katons.

Do you know how much chakra it takes to reconstruct bone relative to these other chakra taxing feats? Why speak with such authority on the topic as if you know for sure that regrowing an arm would be as taxing as erecting a several hundred foot tall construct made of pure chakra?

Madara's chakra pool at VoTE was already top tier, and with Hashirama's cells backing him in addition to Sage Mode, I have absolutely no reason to believe Tsunade outclasses him in stamina, second chakra pool or not.

Madara essentially has a second chakra pool, just like Tsunade. He has his own chakra, and has the chakra that the Hashirama face on his chest provides. Each of Madara's chakra sources is more plentiful than Tsunade's chakra sources. Hell, I'd say even one of Madara's chakra sources is more than both of Tsunade's.

If she were to be squeezed and broken into smaller katsuya being the invertebrate she is and not exactly having anything internally to be damaged I say try again with your piercing theory.

Katsuyu is an oversized slug. If one steps on a slug, it gets squished. Likewise, the biting pressure of a snake of that size will squish her all the same / cut through her like a knife through butter.

He can't kil lher. The only thing by manga to kill her as of date is chakra absorption.

So basically, according to you, Katsuyu is in actuality a roided out version of Yata Mirror equipped to Perfect Susano'o.

Okay then if you know what a deadlock is that how does it work between them? I don't quite know where it's from in the manga atm but i know i read it somewhere that the deadlock is Snake > Frog > Slug >Snake maybe i read it in mythology.

Mythology is irrelevant to this manga. I have no idea why you are trying to pass it off as an applicable feat.

The deadlock is for the kuchiyose not the summoners. OrSasuke > Naruto > Sakura > Sasuke XD

Still has absolutely no bearing on the context.

Gamabunta and Katsuyu were fighting together against Manda. Aoda, Katsuyu, and Gamakichi were fighting together as a trio. What "three way deadlock" was occurring, in either of the scenarios? In scenarion one it is 2 vs. 1, and in the second scenario they are all on the same team. There was no "three way deadlock."

Again, recognize the manga's use of the word "deadlock" is liberal.

Yet she was still able to knock down the V3 susanos to the ground. Clearly she did not think they were big enough to use katsuya to help her.

Yeah, at the expense of getting gutted by Susano'o swords and the Raikage taking note of her rapidly decreasing performance in battle. Clearly, she was getting overwhelmed, and if this Katsuyu-made-Exodia would have been of help in that scenario, she would have used it.

Bottom line is you all think pain low diffs her and i have a different opinion. discussing tsunade vs madara is unecessary. So hold your peace.

I have no idea where you are getting this idea that Tsunade will outperform Sage Mode Jiraiya against 3 paths, let alone against all six. Deva Realm alone man-handled Naruto and his Kyuubi transformations up until the 8th tail, and this was after casually nuking an entire village.

 

[Joshutsu]

I have no idea where you are getting this idea that Tsunade will outperform Sage Mode Jiraiya against 3 paths

All I have to say is the obvious, intel. Jiraya did not have it and because of him she has it. So again I will hold my opinion.

 

[Black Wolf]

What intel did Jiraiya obtain? "The real one isn't there" doesn't help you in the battle. Naruto only managed to take advantage of that knowledge after he beat all six paths, and Tsunade has no hope of getting that far to begin with.

Even if we are talking about the paths abilities, the only powers Jiraiya saw are Preta's absorption and Animal's summons. The other four paths were still unknowns. And being a one-dimensional fighter doesn't help Tsunade's case much in terms of changing up her fighting style (all she has done is charge forward and punch), unless she is getting a good amount of preparation prior to the battle, which the first post does not elaborate upon.

Hell, Naruto had all the knowledge Jiraiya has and the knowledge Kakashi got on Deva's powers, and even with a toad army, Sage Mode, KN6 Bijuudamas and assaults, KN8 to bail him out of Chibaku Tensei, and an internal pep talk from his dad that he managed to win, and he only barely won against a Pain that was exhausted after Chou Shinra Tensei, and only due to the other paths getting killed while Deva was out of commission.

 

[Europa]

All I have to say is the obvious, intel. Jiraya did not have it and because of him she has it. So again I will hold my opinion.

The sheer fact that you think Tsunade stands a chance here is pretty damn laughable. Intel or not, she has nothing to take him on.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Tsunade high difficulty.

 

[Callypigia]

Tsunade high difficulty.

Pain would have to fight Tsunade on Torment VI before he had trouble taking her down.

 

[Conspirator.]

Black Wolf soloed this thread a thousand times over!

 

[Yuse]

if it current tsunade it would be close but i still think the paths would win

 

[Blackwatch]

6POP absolutely massacre Tsunade. Animal and Deva Path solo, Asura path has his chances as well. The complete formation tears Tsunade apart in a blink.