Whoever said that this thread was just a bunch of fake facts and cover ups was down right legit. You gonna bring up that Tsunade restored Onoki's chakra to hype her chakra reserves over the other Kage but ignore that Onoki, Gaara, and Mei were fighting for much longer than she was? Those three have been fighting since the war started and Gaara and Onoki were on their death beds already when Tsunade arrived, having stopped fought Muu, Troll Kage, and Madara (stopping two meteors in the process).
And lol at Tsunade keeping track of Ay's speed and dodging his attacks when Sasuke's mangyeko sharingan and speed couldn't.
Lol at Tsunade dodging jinton cube that one shotted Ms Sasuke.
Now if we base this on the their battle against Madara, Tsunade and Onoki definitely come out at the top. Both of them standing off against Madara countless times.Onoki using willpower to break through pollen technique and finally Tsunade being the last kage 'standing' lol at the end. Now Gaara certainly did more in other battles so he would also vie for a spot at the top. Ay and Mei, they did the least amount of work in the war arc.
Not my fault you couldnt even read the first couple of lines. Exactly they basically were out of chakra when Tsunade arrived and she made them good as new to fight again which is exactly why I hyped her reserves.
Not at all a counter but I shall show you but that looks like. You see when you counter to something you actually have to explain how something is irrelevant. Ay is not grabbing on to Tsunade and getting close to her to smash her around without Tsunade grabbing hold of Ay.
Ay (who knows that Tsunade trumps him in physical power) is going to try a wrestling match with her? No. She isn't going to grab Ay because he has common sense not to try and overpower her. He will use what he has the most of, speed.
I will not attempt to counter irrelevancy, the thread will derail and spiral.
We have already agreed that she cannot react to V2 Ay, so this entire scan is unnecessary and irrelevant since the initial argument from you is that she would...what predict him? *_*
he is not killing Tsunade in that form anyway. Even if he ends up cutting her in half which is not likely as that only ever happened when Madara used PS. V2 Ay cannot even keep up with himself there is no way he can make a precise enough cut in that form which is what is needed against Tsunade. Tsunade who went up against 5 Susano who couldnt end her.
Just how many consecutive guillotine drops, electric chops to the head, and elbows is she logically going to take before the Yin Seal drains her too much? This battle will literally be watching Tsunade getting knocked silly until she is all drained up.
Why would he cut her in half when he can easily decapitate her by manipulating lightning?
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The only plausible Kage for her to win against is Mei, and I will end this here.
Sasuke was guarded by susanoo so obviously it won't melt him fast. On the other hand,
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. One could claim hidden mist will only be potent in enclosed space due to it spreading out. This however is wrong because the user always keeps it within the battlefield and it doesn't just dissipate away. So if Mei casts acid mist, which is mostly identical, she can keep it within a fixed volume even though
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. The leaked out acid mist can be replaced if Mei blows out more acid (
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) so no biggie. You're also underestimating the length of the hallway and also ignoring it wasn't just a straight rectangle but there was some additional space to the left (bottom-left panel).
Mei's only long range attack is Suiton which will only push Tsunade back, it cant kill her. She was shown to be able to physically react knocking fire balls away before Mei could shoot out a suiton [
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]. Tsunade going through acid mist would be able to take Mei down before she shoots out a suiton as this is the
Mei was low on chakra hence why it took her so long to knead it in that scenario. While fresh,
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so saying Tsunade closes the distance faster than Mei shoots suiton is false. What is even more illogical is that you ignore the fact Tsunade will be slowed down by the constant damage the acid mist will be doing to her body which
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. If much of her chakra will be used to regenerate the continous damage across the surface of her entire body, her CES, shunshin and ordinary movement will be nerfed as she'll have less chakra to use on that.
Lava can be dodged by Tsunade leaping away or jumping out of its short range [
You make it sound like Mei will simply fire off jutsus in a straight forward fashion, she'll look for openings such as these (
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) which will be given to her by acid mist's constant damage as well as smashing Tsunade into the ground with suiton or launching her upwards where evasion is no longer possible.
Mei's lava doesnt immediately melt things, its a slow process as shown by this chair getting
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and being
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later. Even if Tsunde gets hit she can still shake off the acid and heal the damage.
Katsuyu has a larger range of acid, it melts faster and she can shoot out more at a time [
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].
The longer the battle goes on the less of a chance Mei has of winning due to Tsunade's reserves being far greater than Mei's. Between Katsuyu and regeneration no way Mei can end this quickly which is what she would need to do to have a chance to win.
During the kage summit arc, Mei was using lava in a bid to harden it so it was not as hot. On the other hand, WA Mei's lava can even melt Madara's V3 susanoo arm (
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) so a far less durable Tsunade gets melt by the intense heat combined with acidity as evidenced by the databook.
Youton Youkai no Jutsu
Manipulating the strong acid of a large volcanic mud flow to corrode ones flesh.
For Godaime Mizukage it's possible to use the Youton Kekkai Genkai. inside her body, chakra is changed into strong acidic fluid, everything is melted by the dangerous Jutsu. Out of the mouth gushes (blasts) out a quantity of viscous fluid, the shape and amount is at the liberty of the Jutsu's users. When spit forth at short range it's speed drastically increases (I'm pretty sure?), a wall that obstructs ones path, to use in more than one direction is feasible.
distributes viscous liquid across a vast range/scope, creating an acid wall. Anything that touches it will crumble and loose it's shape.
Sasuke was guarded by susanoo so obviously it won't melt him fast. On the other hand,
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. One could claim hidden mist will only be potent in enclosed space due to it spreading out. This however is wrong because the user always keeps it within the battlefield and it doesn't just dissipate away. So if Mei casts acid mist, which is mostly identical, she can keep it within a fixed volume even though
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. The leaked out acid mist can be replaced if Mei blows out more acid (
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) so no biggie. You're also underestimating the length of the hallway and also ignoring it wasn't just a straight rectangle but there was some additional space to the left (bottom-left panel).
The mist acidic or otherwise is easily dispersed via Tsunade's strength, similar as to how Madara's Susanoo dispersed of the hidden mist.
Mei was low on chakra hence why it took her so long to knead it in that scenario. While fresh,
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so saying Tsunade closes the distance faster than Mei shoots suiton is false. What is even more illogical is that you ignore the fact Tsunade will be slowed down by the constant damage the acid mist will be doing to her body which
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. If much of her chakra will be used to regenerate the continous damage across the surface of her entire body, her CES, shunshin and ordinary movement will be nerfed as she'll have less chakra to use on that.
Actually, Tsunade made no attempt to dodge Madara's Katon. so "her jutsu execution is faster than Tsunade physically reacting" is intellectually dishonest. Tsunade only brought Mei along for one purpose, and as displayed by the last katon Madara used Tsunade was capable of tanking a katon and could have planned on doing so.
And Mei's casting speed still isn't enough as Tsunade moves faster than Mei's fastest attack. Water Dragon jutsu. Thus, providing Tsunade a means to avoid that jutsu and by extension all of the slower ones.
You make it sound like Mei will simply fire off jutsus in a straight forward fashion, she'll look for openings such as these (
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) which will be given to her by acid mist's constant damage as well as smashing Tsunade into the ground with suiton or launching her upwards where evasion is no longer possible.
Here is the difference between their power. Tsunade was reknown through the ninja world for her medical skills, and her use of slugs (slug princess). Without bringing her summon into the equation she had a much better showing than Mei. Her reflexes were portrayed as quicker and her combat skill as greater. Somehow I don't imagine it being Mei who is pressing Tsunade defensively.
During the kage summit arc, Mei was using lava in a bid to harden it so it was not as hot. On the other hand, WA Mei's lava can even melt Madara's V3 susanoo arm (
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) so a far less durable Tsunade gets melt by the intense heat combined with acidity as evidenced by the databook.
Yoton is far too slow of an attack when Tsunade outspeeds her water dragon. Especially considering viscosity tends to slow movement of a substance.
Youton Youkai no Jutsu
Manipulating the strong acid of a large volcanic mud flow to corrode ones flesh.
For Godaime Mizukage it's possible to use the Youton Kekkai Genkai. inside her body, chakra is changed into strong acidic fluid, everything is melted by the dangerous Jutsu. Out of the mouth gushes (blasts) out a quantity of viscous fluid, the shape and amount is at the liberty of the Jutsu's users. When spit forth at short range it's speed drastically increases (I'm pretty sure?), a wall that obstructs ones path, to use in more than one direction is feasible.
distributes viscous liquid across a vast range/scope, creating an acid wall. Anything that touches it will crumble and loose it's shape.
We haven't even gotten into Tsunade's Punch AoE, which would be approx the sam size as Sakura's and that's before Byakugou
I'd also argue that Tsunade would defeat Ay, Mei, and Gaara, not just because she was portrayed as more powerful, but because has displayed the resources to do so.
I don't think Madara's susanoo sword dispersed the mist, and even if it did, it was dispersed temporarily in a small area.
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after
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+ large scale fuuton so it stands to reason the user simply maintains the mist within a contained volume or else Zabuza's mist will have dissipated quite easily due to natural forces. This is similar to how Kisame maintains water dome.
Actually, Tsunade made no attempt to dodge Madara's Katon. so "her jutsu execution is faster than Tsunade physically reacting" is intellectually dishonest. Tsunade only brought Mei along for one purpose, and as displayed by the last katon Madara used Tsunade was capable of tanking a katon and could have planned on doing so.
And Mei's casting speed still isn't enough as Tsunade moves faster than Mei's fastest attack. Water Dragon jutsu. Thus, providing Tsunade a means to avoid that jutsu and by extension all of the slower ones.
Tsunade uses up a portion of her lifespan and chakra reserves when she takes damage so it is in Tsunade's best interest to dodge, not simply tank. It also takes a lot less chakra to dodge, then for Mei to use a giant suiton to stop a katon so once again if Tsunade were fast enough, I see no reason why she wouldn't simply dodge.
Here is the difference between their power. Tsunade was reknown through the ninja world for her medical skills, and her use of slugs (slug princess). Without bringing her summon into the equation she had a much better showing than Mei. Her reflexes were portrayed as quicker and her combat skill as greater. Somehow I don't imagine it being Mei who is pressing Tsunade defensively.
In a team effort, Tsunade is better than Mei but in a solo fight with no team mates, I don't think so. Agreed that Tsunade has better reflexes and better foot/shunshin speed. Mei is the one who'll be pressuring Tsunade with her jutsus, not her own speed so that's an irrelevant point to bring up.
Yoton is far too slow of an attack when Tsunade outspeeds her water dragon. Especially considering viscosity tends to slow movement of a substance.
That's why I claimed Mei hits Tsunade with youton when she's either in midair, in sheer pain due to acid mist or a combination thereof . Similar to how Kabuto waited until Tsunade was in a mid air position and then hit her with chakra scalpel.
We haven't even gotten into Tsunade's Punch AoE, which would be approx the sam size as Sakura's and that's before Byakugou
From underground a violent solid pillar of water explodes forth. In an instant hell fire is erase. Godaime Mizukage Mei Terumi activated this jutsu to perfectly block Madara's Katon Jutsu.
So if Mei sees Tsunade punching the ground, she simply causes the water from underneath her feat to explode upwards, pushing Tsunade into the air where she's a sitting duck.
Ohnoki low diff at best
Gaara can fly he low diffs
Mei can use mist and laval to keep her away she's not fast so mid to high diff
Aye speed blitzes her around like a ping pong ball
Tsunade in a 1v1 fight IS the WEAKEST OF THE GOKAGE in a team battle she thrives since they take pressure off her with long range jutsu so Id take her over mei in a team battle but never 1v1
I don't think Madara's susanoo sword dispersed the mist, and even if it did, it was dispersed temporarily in a small area.
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after
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+ large scale fuuton so it stands to reason the user simply maintains the mist within a contained volume or else Zabuza's mist will have dissipated quite easily due to natural forces. This is similar to how Kisame maintains water dome.
That was primarily dust cloud not a mist. To which wind would only aggrevate a dust cloud rather than disperse it.
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Though I'd also point out that if a mist covers the entire battlefield such that an entire army of 40k can fit in it, where exactly would the mist go?
Mei's mist is far more contained
Tsunade uses up a portion of her lifespan and chakra reserves when she takes damage so it is in Tsunade's best interest to dodge, not simply tank. It also takes a lot less chakra to dodge, then for Mei to use a giant suiton to stop a katon so once again if Tsunade were fast enough, I see no reason why she wouldn't simply dodge.
Incorrect, Tsunade directly stated that her goal was to get hit and play dead. So her making no attempt to dodge makes perfect sense. Especially considering the fact that she's actually faster than Mei's suiton having left the ground after Mei's suiton. And given the way she batted away Madara's Katon while Mei was kneeding.
In a team effort, Tsunade is better than Mei but in a solo fight with no team mates, I don't think so. Agreed that Tsunade has better reflexes and better foot/shunshin speed. Mei is the one who'll be pressuring Tsunade with her jutsus, not her own speed so that's an irrelevant point to bring up.
Mei will pressure Tsunade with jutsus that Tsunade is faster than when she moves in the same direction? Meaning sidestepping those techniques should be a breeze. But They will pressure her? I don't think so. Her better reflexes that you agree on will allow her to avoid, and her better foot speed would allow her to close the distance.
That's why I claimed Mei hits Tsunade with youton when she's either in midair, in sheer pain due to acid mist or a combination thereof . Similar to how Kabuto waited until Tsunade was in a mid air position and then hit her with chakra scalpel.
Given the way Tsunade smacked away 5 katons when one was strong enough to to break through stone, I don't see even a head on confrontation with water dragon posing much of a problem, Water is much more of a solid than plasma is any day of the week, which makes it pretty likely in the event that Tsunade doesn't dodge a suiton she'll knock it back.
Because she can only use it once before Tsunade counters it. It's not an offensive thing, Tsunade literally has a summon this large.
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Tsunade's body is tiny compared to the eye stalk of katsuyu. If we're talking about unused skills thus far, Mei loses by a long shot. Not to mention Katsuyu could liquefy and do a reverse healing technique killing Mei.
Suiton Suijinchuu
From underground a violent solid pillar of water explodes forth. In an instant hell fire is erase. Godaime Mizukage Mei Terumi activated this jutsu to perfectly block Madara's Katon Jutsu.
So if Mei sees Tsunade punching the ground, she simply causes the water from underneath her feat to explode upwards, pushing Tsunade into the air where she's a sitting duck.
Ohnoki low diff at best
Gaara can fly he low diffs
Mei can use mist and laval to keep her away she's not fast so mid to high diff
Aye speed blitzes her around like a ping pong ball
Tsunade in a 1v1 fight IS the WEAKEST OF THE GOKAGE in a team battle she thrives since they take pressure off her with long range jutsu so Id take her over mei in a team battle but never 1v1
Yeah Oonoki beats her, no argument here
Gaara depends on location. If he doesn't start in a desert, which is where in fought during all of Pt. 2 he looses he won't have the volume of sand needed to handle Tsunade and Katsuyu in mid air. Also Tsunade's anticipation of Gaara needing to go airborn is pretty high.
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. She gets out of Sand Coffin and Sand Waterfall. She has a counter to his arsenal.
Mei's attacks aren't fast enough to catch Tsunade dead to rights. Ultimately, she'd get smacked down.
Ay is always the debate. Tsunade is stronger than Base Bee, therefore there is no reason to believe that a V1 Ay is sending her flying. Given her ability to coordinate an attack with a lightened V1 Ay, there is no real reason she should be completely blindsided by V1. V2 could be a problem, but not more than she can handle. Ay can't quickly decapitate alone. Thus Tsunade can reasonably tank his onslaught. Or you know summon a bijuu sized slug leaving Ay pretty overwhelmed. Regarding how to attack the person at the top of said slug. Overall she wins more times than not. That's before taking into account how ground punches could trip up Ay's shunshin. And the question of what kind of AoE a byakugou powered punch would have.
That was primarily dust cloud not a mist. To which wind would only aggrevate a dust cloud rather than disperse it.
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Though I'd also point out that if a mist covers the entire battlefield such that an entire army of 40k can fit in it, where exactly would the mist go?
Mei's mist is far more contained
Still had mist in it and while Mei's will be far more contained, Tsunade's strength is no where near the Juubi's. Whatever acid mist that dissipates is easily replaced anyway.
Incorrect, Tsunade directly stated that her goal was to get hit and play dead. So her making no attempt to dodge makes perfect sense. Especially considering the fact that she's actually faster than Mei's suiton having left the ground after Mei's suiton. And given the way she batted away Madara's Katon while Mei was kneeding.
Where did Tsunade say this? Even if she did, I doubt she wanted to play possum with Madara's katon considering Madara was already sent flying away and not in control of his own momentum so there was no need to surprise him as was shown. Not to mention it wouldn't catch Madara off guard from such a distance unlike a more pointblank deception. Still referring to a Mei low on chakra to make your argument when Mei has far superior jutsu execution feats. Ironic you're the one who talks about intellectual dishonesty. Also
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Tsunade out speed Mei's suiton in that instance. If Tsunade is really as fast as you say, she'd have easily dodged Madara's katon and followed up with a punch/kick on Madara's susanoo, instead of Mei hitting it with water dragon, which would be more destructive and faster than Mei using water pillar, then water dragon. Also having a mere 3.5 in speed isn't something you should ignore by nitpicking Tsunade's feats and make it seem she's much faster and reflexive than she truly is.
Mei will pressure Tsunade with jutsus that Tsunade is faster than when she moves in the same direction? Meaning sidestepping those techniques should be a breeze. But They will pressure her? I don't think so. Her better reflexes that you agree on will allow her to avoid, and her better foot speed would allow her to close the distance.
Addressed Tsunade's speed in the previous post. Having better foot speed and reflexes than Mei doesn't mean Tsunade can evade all her attacks and close the distance. Furthermore, Tsunade's body will be in pain due to acid mist so no where near as fast and reflexive as she'd ordinarily be.
Given the way Tsunade smacked away 5 katons when one was strong enough to to break through stone, I don't see even a head on confrontation with water dragon posing much of a problem, Water is much more of a solid than plasma is any day of the week, which makes it pretty likely in the event that Tsunade doesn't dodge a suiton she'll knock it back.
Yes Tsunade can obliterate a WD with a CES punch but lava is a free flowing attack which is what is going to be opted to use to finish Tsunade off when Mei gets the opportunity to land a solid hit.
Because she can only use it once before Tsunade counters it. It's not an offensive thing, Tsunade literally has a summon this large.
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Tsunade's body is tiny compared to the eye stalk of katsuyu. If we're talking about unused skills thus far, Mei loses by a long shot. Not to mention Katsuyu could liquefy and do a reverse healing technique killing Mei.
Katsuyu is very large but so is its surface area which means it is exposed to a much larger amount of acid. It should take a few minutes but by then all of Katsuyu will be dead. To do reverse healing, either Tsunade or Katsuyu will have to tag Mei but acid mist will kill whatever part of Katsuyu comes near Mei.
If Tsunade goes airborn no reason she can't follow up with food cart destroyer
If Mei stupidly goes beneath Tsunade before Katsuyu is summoned, then sure. This is only a one time counter to compensate for being airborne. Summoning can't be spammed whereas water pillar can.
Still had mist in it and while Mei's will be far more contained, Tsunade's strength is no where near the Juubi's. Whatever acid mist that dissipates is easily replaced anyway.
Where did Tsunade say this? Even if she did, I doubt she wanted to play possum with Madara's katon considering Madara was already sent flying away and not in control of his own momentum so there was no need to surprise him as was shown. Not to mention it wouldn't catch Madara off guard from such a distance unlike a more pointblank deception. Still referring to a Mei low on chakra to make your argument when Mei has far superior jutsu execution feats. Ironic you're the one who talks about intellectual dishonesty. Also
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Tsunade out speed Mei's suiton in that instance. If Tsunade is really as fast as you say, she'd have easily dodged Madara's katon and followed up with a punch/kick on Madara's susanoo, instead of Mei hitting it with water dragon, which would be more destructive and faster than Mei using water pillar, then water dragon. Also having a mere 3.5 in speed isn't something you should ignore by nitpicking Tsunade's feats and make it seem she's much faster and reflexive than she truly is.
Addressed Tsunade's speed in the previous post. Having better foot speed and reflexes than Mei doesn't mean Tsunade can evade all her attacks and close the distance. Furthermore, Tsunade's body will be in pain due to acid mist so no where near as fast and reflexive as she'd ordinarily be.
Yes Tsunade can obliterate a WD with a CES punch but lava is a free flowing attack which is what is going to be opted to use to finish Tsunade off when Mei gets the opportunity to land a solid hit.
Katsuyu is very large but so is its surface area which means it is exposed to a much larger amount of acid. It should take a few minutes but by then all of Katsuyu will be dead. To do reverse healing, either Tsunade or Katsuyu will have to tag Mei but acid mist will kill whatever part of Katsuyu comes near Mei.
If Mei stupidly goes beneath Tsunade before Katsuyu is summoned, then sure. This is only a one time counter to compensate for being airborne. Summoning can't be spammed whereas water pillar can.
There is a very big difference between a mist and a mist within a dust cloud but that's not actually important as by feats Mei's mist dispersed from wind pressure.
It was implied when Tsunade said "I planned to catch you off guard with this, but" Catching someone by surprise with a byakugou only makes sense if she was playing dead. Further Tsunade in no way reacted she didn't flinch at the Katon, when she can clearly react to Madara's Katons when she's low on chakra. Which leaves two reasonable possibilities she intended to tank or she expected Mei to intercept. Just like when she anticipated Gaara and Oonoki intercepting Yasaka Magatama or Gaara getting them out of range for Flower World. Or how she anticipated that Mei wouldn't have that final suiton on time.
Are you seriously complaining about Tsunade being faster than Mei's seal speed by saying Mei was low on chakra, like Tsunade wasn't in the same exact boat running out of chakra after blocking that last attack. It doesn't matter if Mei had low chakra because Tsunade was in the same position and reacted faster.
Your hyperlink doesn't work for me so, I'll have to move past that. Yes, Tsunade could have dodged the Katon, both times the one she tanked and the one Mei extinguished. Logically if Tsunade is fast enough to intercept and deflect while low on chakra, she should be fast enough to dodge. So why didn't she we're left with two possibilities, which I covered above.
The mist gets dispersed allowing Tsunade to clear the distance. Mei's lava is far too slow. Can't stress this enough. She is faster than Mei by every metric.
You think the acid is going to affect Katsuyu? That's absolutely ridiculous.
1. Katsuyu possesses a far stronger acid.
2. Structurally all parts of Katsuyu are the same evidenced by great slug division and her ability to melt herself
Thus acid would have no effect on Katsuyu whatsoever because her body contains and released a far stronger acid.
Beyond that the sheer scale of Katsuyu dwarfs all of Mei's ninjutsu.
No one is falling for the same trick twice and at best that's what waterspout would be a last ditch trick to stave off death from a Tsunade who is closing in for the kill
There is a very big difference between a mist and a mist within a dust cloud but that's not actually important as by feats Mei's mist dispersed from wind pressure.
Well Tsunade can't generate wind pressure unless she punches the ground which can be prevented by launching her into the air with water pillar.
It was implied when Tsunade said "I planned to catch you off guard with this, but" Catching someone by surprise with a byakugou only makes sense if she was playing dead. Further Tsunade in no way reacted she didn't flinch at the Katon, when she can clearly react to Madara's Katons when she's low on chakra. Which leaves two reasonable possibilities she intended to tank or she expected Mei to intercept. Just like when she anticipated Gaara and Oonoki intercepting Yasaka Magatama or Gaara getting them out of range for Flower World. Or how she anticipated that Mei wouldn't have that final suiton on time.
Are you seriously complaining about Tsunade being faster than Mei's seal speed by saying Mei was low on chakra, like Tsunade wasn't in the same exact boat running out of chakra after blocking that last attack. It doesn't matter if Mei had low chakra because Tsunade was in the same position and reacted faster.
Mei had no problem casting the seals. She was just not fast enough to knead the chakra so how exactly is Tsunade faster than Mei's seals? Tsunade being low on chakra is irrelevant when all she did was move towards the katon, which doesn't require her to knead chakra.
Your hyperlink doesn't work for me so, I'll have to move past that. Yes, Tsunade could have dodged the Katon, both times the one she tanked and the one Mei extinguished. Logically if Tsunade is fast enough to intercept and deflect while low on chakra, she should be fast enough to dodge. So why didn't she we're left with two possibilities, which I covered above.
The mist gets dispersed allowing Tsunade to clear the distance. Mei's lava is far too slow. Can't stress this enough. She is faster than Mei by every metric.
If Tsunade tries to disperse the mist, Mei uses water pillar to launch Tsunade into the air. Mei's lava was fast enough to force Sasuke to use susanoo (
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)(
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) when his body was weakened due to prior MS usage. Tsunade isn't dodging if she's bearing the pain from acid mist.
You think the acid is going to affect Katsuyu? That's absolutely ridiculous.
1. Katsuyu possesses a far stronger acid.
2. Structurally all parts of Katsuyu are the same evidenced by great slug division and her ability to melt herself
Thus acid would have no effect on Katsuyu whatsoever because her body contains and released a far stronger acid.
Beyond that the sheer scale of Katsuyu dwarfs all of Mei's ninjutsu.
No one is falling for the same trick twice and at best that's what waterspout would be a last ditch trick to stave off death from a Tsunade who is closing in for the kill
Katsuyu possessing a more powerful acid doesn't mean it is immune to it. Are katon users immune to katon just because they can spit out hot fire balls without taking damage?
Mei fires off lava and hits Tsunade if she tries closing the distance. Tsunade will be running right into it with her own speed + the speed of the lava so how will she evade it especially when Mei can simply move her face to change her aim/increase AoE?
so you're arguing in the middle of hidden mist technique, which she has to release all the mist, she is also going to release water pillar faster than Tsunade can punch the ground? That's the argument you want to go with?
Mei had no problem casting the seals. She was just not fast enough to knead the chakra so how exactly is Tsunade faster than Mei's seals? Tsunade being low on chakra is irrelevant when all she did was move towards the katon, which doesn't require her to knead chakra.
You know, I call malarky. Mei was clearly forming multiple seals.
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This wasn't a kneeding issue. Tsunade was simply faster than her cast speed.
If Tsunade tries to disperse the mist, Mei uses water pillar to launch Tsunade into the air. Mei's lava was fast enough to force Sasuke to use susanoo (
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)(
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) when his body was weakened due to prior MS usage. Tsunade isn't dodging if she's bearing the pain from acid mist.
This is actually just terrible reasoning. A low chakra, and therefore low stamina Sasuke who is suffering backlash from using MS after a battle with a kage couldn't dodge therefore neither will Tsunade in an acid mist. Well besides an acid mist being completely different than the set of hindrances that Sasuke faced and therefore non-comparable. There's this idea that Sasuke pain threshold = Tsunade pain threshold when only was unconcerned about their fate while cut in half
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Literally no part of your analogy holds as Sasuke's pain tolerance isn't comparable to Tsunade's.
But let's say that Mei does launch Tsunade in the air, Tsunade recovers with Katsuyu. Game Over. Nothing else in Mei's arsenal matters anymore.
Katsuyu possessing a more powerful acid doesn't mean it is immune to it. Are katon users immune to katon just because they can spit out hot fire balls without taking damage?
Well it depends, do the katon users store katons inside of their body. Can any part of their bodies be separated to form an exact miniature of the whole. And that really is my point that any piece of Katsuyu can become an acid carrying piece of sie. Though I wonder what an acid mist would do to a being that could choose to be in a melted liquid like form. Also Katsuyu has shown corrosive resistance when she was attached to a 9 tailed naruto.
Mei fires off lava and hits Tsunade if she tries closing the distance. Tsunade will be running right into it with her own speed + the speed of the lava so how will she evade it especially when Mei can simply move her face to change her aim/increase AoE?
Well, I just think that's unlikely. When she begins to form hand seals Tsunade would probably expect a jutsu to come from Mei. Youton isn't very surprising nor quick. I can't imagine Mei getting a clean shot directly at Tsunade without any subterfuge especially with lava release. Mei might a temporary retreat, but the end is still the same story
Ok, so Mei's out of the way. On to Ay, there are ways to counteract a speed blitz. Tsunade was continually able to keep up with Ay's v2 speed visually when watching Naruto and Ay fight. In fact, the only time she could not clearly depict someone moving is when Naruto, the faster of the two, became a yellow flash. So the idea that Tsunade won't be able to see Ay is immediately thrown out of the window. The next question is can she react to his speeds? The answer is definitely yes, for two solid examples of such. The first example is when Raikage was about to punch Naruto. In complete alarm, as soon as his fist started moving, Tsunade began to run. Now, obviously her foot speed is not great enough to have reached Naruto before Ay's fist would have, but her reaction speed was fast enough to throw her into motion before Ay's attack connected. And Ay and Naruto were maybe a meter apart.
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This handily proves that anything short of V2 Tsunade can react to. The next feat to discuss is the combination attack with Ay, Oonoki an Madara.
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How does this team attack prove that Tsunade can react to Ay? Didn't Mei also perform a team attack with Ay? In the three kage combination attack, it would have been impossible for Tsunade to have predicted where Madara's susanoo was before Ay and Oonoki's attack. How so? Tsunade sent the susanoo flying in one direction, Mei completely changed the velocity of the susanoo, then when Ay and Oonoki attacked, they changed the speed and directionality of the susanoo yet again. Meaning Tsunade could not have attacked until the third variable was worked out. Otherwise she would have randomly soaring through the air. Thus, this attack serves as both a speed feat and reaction speed feat.
Now as to Mei performing an attack with Ay, the necessary speed and reaction feats were Ay's and not Mei's. The demand to have the right timing and location was put on Ay's shoulders. Why? Mei spat Lava at Madara, Ay attempted to blitz Madara, head on and Ay landed atop Madara's susanoo. Once Mei figured out where Madara, was going to land, she needed only to spew her lava there. She didn't not need to account for the proper speed for the lava to land in that location. Thus the two feats are completely different.
Furthermore serving as a speed feat for Tsunade is her outspeeding Mei's Water Dragon.
Point one: Ay when he made contact with Susanoo was made heavier boosting his strength
Point Two: Being heavier Ay could not float or fly
Point Three: Ay is still directly next to Susanoo when Tsunade makes contact
Point Four: In the time between Ay hitting the Susanoo and Tsunade hitting it Oonoki did not use
Ultralight weight technique to fly with Ay
Point Five: Ay had not yet started to fall as his clothes don't display any kind of movement suggesting falling,whereas on the next page evidence of falling can be seen in Tsunade's appearance and Oonoki's hair.
Point Six: Landing is a thing as Tsunade was the first to land (also suggesting that she began falling before Oonoki and Ay)
Conlcusion: Tsunade hit Susanoo quickly enough following Ay's strike that he hadn't began to fall after transferring his momentum into the Susanoo. Tsunade's attack followed so closely behind Ay's that gravity didn't have time to start pulling him downward. That's one way of quantifying it. The other way is that the entirety of the Water Dragon's head was able to fit on panel and Tsunade was no where to be seen. Meaning she was at the very least that distance away as a starting point. If we can establish no other starting point the edge of the frame can be used as it shows the minimum distance she must have logically traveled.
In terms of Tsunade's starting point,
Point One:we don't know her starting point for sure I'll grant you that.
Point Two: we know where Ay and Oonoki were,
Point Three:We know that Tsunade wasn't in the same panel.
Point Four: We know Tsunade got there almost immediately afterwards. I would argue that she moved faster than the water dragon as the most direct path to the susanoo was the same path the water dragon took, meaning that Tsunade had to have taken a less direct path, and she is striking the susanoo downward from an upward position suggesting that she had jumped higher than the water dragon to reach Madara. Given that the water dragon's tongue accelerated the susanoo faster than any other portion of the water dragon that was moving it necessarily means that the susanoo accelerated faster than the water dragon, given that the time gap between Ay and Tsunade's attack was not long enough for gravity to affect Ay, it is most likely that Tsunade was going fast enough to outspeed the water dragon and catch up to the susanoo.
Conclusion: Tsunade moved fast enough to come from off panel when a speedster was on panel to assist said speedster. What I mean is that she was moving quickly enough that she was able to provide Ay with real time support. (Compare this for instance with Mei's use of Youton)Doing so implies a certain amount of speed. Namely that Ay had just entered the frame allowing you to know that what ever is happening on frame is happening quickly. As opposed to say if Gaara had ran onto frame. If you combine conclusion one and two you may be able to more closely quantify the feat as a whole.
When Madara fired his dragon technique, all kages were at base and Tsunade was definitively at her limit. Yet not only was she the first to react, but if you look at the distance she traveled in comparison to the distance Base Ay traveled you'll find that she moved further than he did. Additionally, for the reaction feat one may say that kages expected Mei or Tsunade to handle the attack but the shock on Mei's face tells a different story.
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While here I will take this opportunity to reiterate the speed feat Tsunade got of moving faster than Mei could cast a ninjutsu.
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If Ay's base speed had been so impressive, he should have easily gotten to Tsunade in time. This is not to say that Ay isn't fast but the majority of his speed comes from his lightning cloak.
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Finally point I was to highlight with speed is that many characters have avoided being blitzed by him.
Sharingan users: Madara
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Obito
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Sasuke
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Non sharingan users: Juugo
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Suigetsu
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Jinchurikiis: Bee and Naruto
Now to discuss whether or not Tsunade could withstand Ay's attacks we've twice been shown the power of a Yasaka Magatama. Once when Itachi used it to help destroy Chibaku Tensei, in which he referred to it as his most powerful distance technique. And again when Madara wanted to test the kages defensive abilities, in which he called their defense impressive. Despite the attack almost making it through the two layered defense. Thus, we can appreciate that yasaka magatama was portrayed as a very destructive attack. Be that as it may, Tsunade took three head on and was fine immediately afterward. Despite this always being a matter of debate the Viz manga highlights Tsunade's survival from Ethereal Transmission jutsu as a durability feat. Mabui states happen to bodies as they travel at the speeds the Ethereal Transmission Jutsu is transports things at. She says, "The Body Just cannot keep up, and one just comes cut and torn apart and dead on the other side!"
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Now some may say that Mabui was just speaking theoretically, despite the fact that she prefaces her statement with the assertion "We do know" which points to the inference it has been tried before. But then Kishi gives his reader more clues that it has been tried before. She says "The only one who has ever successfully traveled using this jutsu is the Third Raikage!"
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Thus, again implying the other had tried unsuccessfully. And Kishi even goes as so far to state that durability is necessary to survive. Some of you may say, "Fine, She survived, but only due to medical ninjutsu." But the Manga disagrees. Before the teleportation Tsunade had not opened her seal
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She can be seen releasing it after having arrived
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Further, Tsunade referred to the wounds received as not too bad which is a far cry from lethal.
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The argument in regards to stamina shall be a short one, Tsunade reached her limit around the same time in which Ay no longer had his ration cloak, and this is after using healing jutsu and donating chakra to 3 of the 4 other kage. Ergo, like Ay she's a stamina beast.
Thus since Tsunade can react to Ay's speed, and she has tanked stronger attacks than he can dish out. Stamina isn't a concern in this battle I think that Tsunade should come out victorious, however, the nature of this post has been highly defensive in nature ad the argument that now needs to made is that Tsunade has what it takes to take Ay down. Now, Tsunade's strength is tiers above anything Ay can do, even with Oonoki's help Tsunade is still the stronger of the two by a decent margin. Ay's durability feats include getting stabbed by chidori with only about two inches of penetration and withstanding the Ethereal Transmission jutsu. So he has not taken any attack on the scale of Tsunade's punches or kicks. The closest thing that we can compare it to is the mini Buddha statue, which Mei got hit by as well. Additionally, nothing suggests that those punches were on the same scale as Tsunade and Sakura's attacks. And even if they were, the beauty of Tsunade's attack is that he hits such a small area with so much force the effects are exaggerated compared to an attack that hits one's entire body. Thus, in strength Tsunade very clearly has the advantage. And as history has shown us se has no trouble altering the terrain, so that a opponent charging toward might lose their footing. In terms of overall taijutsu ability, Tsunade showed more competency in taijutsu in part 1 alone than Ay did at any point in the manga. Ay has a very one dimensional fighting style essentially grab, smash, rinse, repeat. Whereas Tsunade has more in her inventory, and is certainly the more acrobatic between the two. Being a medic she also has a precise knowledge of the body which she took advantage against Naruto, which again diversifies her taijutsu portfolio. If we speak of jutsus displayed Tsunade has shown more of those as well. She has displayed an A rank lightning technique, S class fuuinjutsu, and S-Class Medical Ninjutsu. Not to mention that beyond lighting the databook says she has proficiency in three other elements. In ninjutsu, Tsunade has more options than Ay. Not to forget her summoning jutsu as well.
There is only one area in which Ay outclasses Tsunade and it's speed. And this one area of inferiority is without a doubt overcomeable by Tsunade.
Some may argue that Ay dismembers Tsunade, but I think that if Ay had the ability to simply chop off body parts in the heat of battle he would. He especially would have done so against Madara. I think in the same way chakra scalpels can be used to cut for surgery and can even cut through a body, in the heat of battle it becomes almost impossible to do it.
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So while in a non combat setting Raikage can cut off his arm, that likely doesn't translate to the heat of battle where he would have to concentrate lot harder on that specific task and away from things like defense and speed. For instance, before chopping off his hand he turned off his chakra cloak completely, perhaps it takes so much focus that he couldn't do both at once.
Ok, so Mei's out of the way. On to Ay, there are ways to counteract a speed blitz. Tsunade was continually able to keep up with Ay's v2 speed visually when watching Naruto and Ay fight. In fact, the only time she could not clearly depict someone moving is when Naruto, the faster of the two, became a yellow flash. So the idea that Tsunade won't be able to see Ay is immediately thrown out of the window. The next question is can she react to his speeds? The answer is definitely yes, for two solid examples of such. The first example is when Raikage was about to punch Naruto. In complete alarm, as soon as his fist started moving, Tsunade began to run. Now, obviously her foot speed is not great enough to have reached Naruto before Ay's fist would have, but her reaction speed was fast enough to throw her into motion before Ay's attack connected. And Ay and Naruto were maybe a meter apart.
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This handily proves that anything short of V2 Tsunade can react to. The next feat to discuss is the combination attack with Ay, Oonoki an Madara.
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How does this team attack prove that Tsunade can react to Ay? Didn't Mei also perform a team attack with Ay? In the three kage combination attack, it would have been impossible for Tsunade to have predicted where Madara's susanoo was before Ay and Oonoki's attack. How so? Tsunade sent the susanoo flying in one direction, Mei completely changed the velocity of the susanoo, then when Ay and Oonoki attacked, they changed the speed and directionality of the susanoo yet again. Meaning Tsunade could not have attacked until the third variable was worked out. Otherwise she would have randomly soaring through the air. Thus, this attack serves as both a speed feat and reaction speed feat.
Now as to Mei performing an attack with Ay, the necessary speed and reaction feats were Ay's and not Mei's. The demand to have the right timing and location was put on Ay's shoulders. Why? Mei spat Lava at Madara, Ay attempted to blitz Madara, head on and Ay landed atop Madara's susanoo. Once Mei figured out where Madara, was going to land, she needed only to spew her lava there. She didn't not need to account for the proper speed for the lava to land in that location. Thus the two feats are completely different.
When Madara fired his dragon technique, all kages were at base and Tsunade was definitively at her limit. Yet not only was she the first to react, but if you look at the distance she traveled in comparison to the distance Base Ay traveled you'll find that she moved further than he did. Additionally, for the reaction feat one may say that kages expected Mei or Tsunade to handle the attack but the shock on Mei's face tells a different story.
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While here I will take this opportunity to reiterate the speed feat Tsunade got of moving faster than Mei could cast a ninjutsu.
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If Ay's base speed had been so impressive, he should have easily gotten to Tsunade in time. This is not to say that Ay isn't fast but the majority of his speed comes from his lightning cloak.
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Finally point I was to highlight with speed is that many characters have avoided being blitzed by him.
Sharingan users: Madara
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Obito
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Sasuke
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Non sharingan users: Juugo
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Suigetsu
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Jinchurikiis: Bee and Naruto
Now to discuss whether or not Tsunade could withstand Ay's attacks we've twice been shown the power of a Yasaka Magatama. Once when Itachi used it to help destroy Chibaku Tensei, in which he referred to it as his most powerful distance technique. And again when Madara wanted to test the kages defensive abilities, in which he called their defense impressive. Despite the attack almost making it through the two layered defense. Thus, we can appreciate that yasaka magatama was portrayed as a very destructive attack. Be that as it may, Tsunade took three head on and was fine immediately afterward. Despite this always being a matter of debate the Viz manga highlights Tsunade's survival from Ethereal Transmission jutsu as a durability feat. Mabui states happen to bodies as they travel at the speeds the Ethereal Transmission Jutsu is transports things at. She says, "The Body Just cannot keep up, and one just comes cut and torn apart and dead on the other side!"
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Now some may say that Mabui was just speaking theoretically, despite the fact that she prefaces her statement with the assertion "We do know" which points to the inference it has been tried before. But then Kishi gives his reader more clues that it has been tried before. She says "The only one who has ever successfully traveled using this jutsu is the Third Raikage!"
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Thus, again implying the other had tried unsuccessfully. And Kishi even goes as so far to state that durability is necessary to survive. Some of you may say, "Fine, She survived, but only due to medical ninjutsu." But the Manga disagrees. Before the teleportation Tsunade had not opened her seal
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She can be seen releasing it after having arrived
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Further, Tsunade referred to the wounds received as not too bad which is a far cry from lethal.
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The argument in regards to stamina shall be a short one, Tsunade reached her limit around the same time in which Ay no longer had his ration cloak, and this is after using healing jutsu and donating chakra to 3 of the 4 other kage. Ergo, like Ay she's a stamina beast.
Thus since Tsunade can react to Ay's speed, and she has tanked stronger attacks than he can dish out. Stamina isn't a concern in this battle I think that Tsunade should come out victorious, however, the nature of this post has been highly defensive in nature ad the argument that now needs to made is that Tsunade has what it takes to take Ay down. Now, Tsunade's strength is tiers above anything Ay can do, even with Oonoki's help Tsunade is still the stronger of the two by a decent margin. Ay's durability feats include getting stabbed by chidori with only about two inches of penetration and withstanding the Ethereal Transmission jutsu. So he has not taken any attack on the scale of Tsunade's punches or kicks. The closest thing that we can compare it to is the mini Buddha statue, which Mei got hit by as well. Additionally, nothing suggests that those punches were on the same scale as Tsunade and Sakura's attacks. And even if they were, the beauty of Tsunade's attack is that he hits such a small area with so much force the effects are exaggerated compared to an attack that hits one's entire body. Thus, in strength Tsunade very clearly has the advantage. And as history has shown us se has no trouble altering the terrain, so that a opponent charging toward might lose their footing. In terms of overall taijutsu ability, Tsunade showed more competency in taijutsu in part 1 alone than Ay did at any point in the manga. Ay has a very one dimensional fighting style essentially grab, smash, rinse, repeat. Whereas Tsunade has more in her inventory, and is certainly the more acrobatic between the two. Being a medic she also has a precise knowledge of the body which she took advantage against Naruto, which again diversifies her taijutsu portfolio. If we speak of jutsus displayed Tsunade has shown more of those as well. She has displayed an A rank lightning technique, S class fuuinjutsu, and S-Class Medical Ninjutsu. Not to mention that beyond lighting the databook says she has proficiency in three other elements. In ninjutsu, Tsunade has more options than Ay. Not to forget her summoning jutsu as well.
There is only one area in which Ay outclasses Tsunade and it's speed. And this one area of inferiority is without a doubt overcomeable by Tsunade.
Nothing you've posted supports the assertion that Tsunade can follow and/or react to Ay's top speed. Tsunade was visually keeping up (if that's even true, didn't bother to check) with Naruto and V1 Ay's fight. Ay didn't use V2 until the final assault. (Not to mention MS Sasuke can't even visually follow Ay's speed so we can forget about Tsunade being able to do so when she is not as fast as he is in any measure) You mentioned Ay's punch, but being able to react to Ay's punch from afar doesn't prove she can react to his top speed. Punching=/=Shunshin. It's easier to perceive something from afar than it is from less than a meter away too. The combo attack is also pointless to mention because nothing supports Ay being in V2 and he was flying via Onoki's technique. That wasn't Shunshin. So yeah, Tsunade can react to V1 Ay no doubt, but not V2.
And your durability point is flawed too. You mention the Yasaka Magatama of Itachi's V3 Susanoo and Madara's V2 Susanoo yet you ignore the fact that the Yasaka Magatama that Tsunade took was from Ribcage, i.e. the weakest level of Susanoo by far and they are clearly smaller than the ones Madara used against Onoki and Gaara's shield and the one Itachi used against Chibaku Tensei. Base Ay took that same teleportation technique, but with no damage. Yet Chidori pierced through his armor and left a flesh wound. Ay's physical attacks and his Karate Chops carry more brute force and penetrative power (the latter) than Chidori as Ay was able to chop through Susanoo and hit Sasuke and he was able to chop off the Hachibi's horn. So no, there is also nothing actually supporting the statement that she can take Ay's attacks either. If Ay could only punch then maybe she'd stand a chance, but she can't react to his speed and he can cut with his attacks. She dies against him.
Nothing you've posted supports the assertion that Tsunade can follow and/or react to Ay's top speed. Tsunade was visually keeping up (if that's even true, didn't bother to check) with Naruto and V1 Ay's fight. Ay didn't use V2 until the final assault. (Not to mention MS Sasuke can't even visually follow Ay's speed so we can forget about Tsunade being able to do so when she is not as fast as he is in any measure) You mentioned Ay's punch, but being able to react to Ay's punch from afar doesn't prove she can react to his top speed. Punching=/=Shunshin. It's easier to perceive something from afar than it is from less than a meter away too. The combo attack is also pointless to mention because nothing supports Ay being in V2 and he was flying via Onoki's technique. That wasn't Shunshin. So yeah, Tsunade can react to V1 Ay no doubt, but not V2.
Well why don't you check? What is the purpose of arguing without knowing what the pages say? I don't really get that. When Ay went all out in V2, Tsunade could have mentioned that Ay had superceded her ability to percieve. Rather she made that comment about Naruto appearing as a yellow flash.
True Punching =/= Shunshin
But Shunshin speed only brings him close it is striking speed afterall that determines whether or not Tsunade gets a counter punch in isn't it. And I still haven't even brought the vast other areas of this fight into consideration. Namely that Tsunade's terrain busting punches easily throw off Ay's footing slowing down his impressive shunshin.
Nor have you considered a platform Tsunade could surround herself with in which Ay could not enter without getting some bad medicine.
Finally you can't actually assert whether Ay was using shunshin or flying. Literally no way to distinguish except for the fact that we've never seen Ay waste chakra by using his raiton cloak while flying. In fact he explains it's meant to give him more speed. Which suggests that he was indeed using shunshin.
And your durability point is flawed too. You mention the Yasaka Magatama of Itachi's V3 Susanoo and Madara's V2 Susanoo yet you ignore the fact that the Yasaka Magatama that Tsunade took was from Ribcage, i.e. the weakest level of Susanoo by far and they are clearly smaller than the ones Madara used against Onoki and Gaara's shield and the one Itachi used against Chibaku Tensei. Base Ay took that same teleportation technique, but with no damage. Yet Chidori pierced through his armor and left a flesh wound. Ay's physical attacks and his Karate Chops carry more brute force and penetrative power (the latter) than Chidori as Ay was able to chop through Susanoo and hit Sasuke and he was able to chop off the Hachibi's horn. So no, there is also nothing actually supporting the statement that she can take Ay's attacks either. If Ay could only punch then maybe she'd stand a chance, but she can't react to his speed and he can cut with his attacks. She dies against him.
Question has Yasaka Magatama strength ever been correlated to the level of susanoo that uses them? Ever? At all?
Next, he broke through Sasuke's susanoo with his chop, yes but that wasn't penetrative power that was through force which is why with Oonoki's help he put a small crack on Maddy's ribcage.
In terms of the over hyped Hachibi exaple which is absolutely asinine. He cut through a horn with Lariat. Yes. How ever, just a simple use of physics says the same does not happen to a human even in the NV.
Also never said Tsunade was more durable than the 4th raikage what I said was that it rips ordinary people to shreds and they come out dead on arrival. Thus she has heightened durability. Please read for accuracy and not to rapid fire response.
Well why don't you check? What is the purpose of arguing without knowing what the pages say? I don't really get that. When Ay went all out in V2, Tsunade could have mentioned that Ay had superceded her ability to percieve. Rather she made that comment about Naruto appearing as a yellow flash.
Question has Yasaka Magatama strength ever been correlated to the level of susanoo that uses them? Ever? At all?
Next, he broke through Sasuke's susanoo with his chop, yes but that wasn't penetrative power that was through force which is why with Oonoki's help he put a small crack on Maddy's ribcage.
In terms of the over hyped Hachibi exaple which is absolutely asinine. He cut through a horn with Lariat. Yes. How ever, just a simple use of physics says the same does not happen to a human even in the NV.
Because we aren't arguing whether or not he can react to V1 Ay and I agree she can react to V1 Ay so there's no need to see if she was following his speed in V1 during his fight with Naruto. The most important part of that post is that Ay only used V2 Shunshin once, and that's when he charged at Naruto for the final time. Nothing in that exchange hints at Tsunade being able to follow Ay's speed. Bold is a weak argument simply because Tsunade already knows that Ay is extremely fast and the Manga has already told us this. The entire scenario was to focus on Naruto's speed, which is why she commented on Naruto's speed. Someone faster than Tsunade with eyes made to track speed has already failed to even visually follow Ay let alone react, so there's no way you can actually sit here and logically argue Tsunade does better.
@bold: Is V2 Susanoo's blade as strong as PS's blade? Is V3 Susanoo's Arrow as strong as an arrow from a Sasuke using a Susanoo boosted by Naruto's power? Nope. Stronger Susanoo=Stronger Susanoo weaponry. Larger Magatama=Stronger Magatama. Tsunade took the weakest Magatama ever shown. That's not a feat that lets her take Ay's hits.
Yes, his chops are penetrative power. That's how he cut off his arm and that's how he cut off the Hachibi's horn. How does his chop only being able to put a crack on Madara's Susanoo mean that it's not penetrative force? And no, he obviously didn't use Lariat to cut off his horn. He
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it and cleanly cut it off. His Karata Chops are penetrative due to the fact his arm is coated in Raiton. Tsunade isn't going to take them like she would his blunt force punches.
Because we aren't arguing whether or not he can react to V1 Ay and I agree she can react to V1 Ay so there's no need to see if she was following his speed in V1 during his fight with Naruto. The most important part of that post is that Ay only used V2 Shunshin once, and that's when he charged at Naruto for the final time. Nothing in that exchange hints at Tsunade being able to follow Ay's speed. Bold is a weak argument simply because Tsunade already knows that Ay is extremely fast and the Manga has already told us this. The entire scenario was to focus on Naruto's speed, which is why she commented on Naruto's speed. Someone faster than Tsunade with eyes made to track speed has already failed to even visually follow Ay let alone react, so there's no way you can actually sit here and logically argue Tsunade does better.
I'd also point out that the significantly faster person didn't force Madara to switch himself with a wood clone.His speed was never so great as to smash Madara's defenses as he had hoped but overall Tsunade reacting to a v2 sunshin blitz seems unlikely.
Which is why her strategy doesn't just rely on being reactive but by making it harder for Ay to use his shunshin. Whether that be through Katsuyu or a pulverized terrain slowing Ay down is within her power. Especially given that his strongest punch is still tankable and he isn't cutting through her on a blitz. Just not happening. It's why he needed Bee for his decapitation tech
@bold: Is V2 Susanoo's blade as strong as PS's blade? Is V3 Susanoo's Arrow as strong as an arrow from a Sasuke using a Susanoo boosted by Naruto's power? Nope. Stronger Susanoo=Stronger Susanoo weaponry. Larger Magatama=Stronger Magatama. Tsunade took the weakest Magatama ever shown. That's not a feat that lets her take Ay's hits.
Yes, his chops are penetrative power. That's how he cut off his arm and that's how he cut off the Hachibi's horn. How does his chop only being able to put a crack on Madara's Susanoo mean that it's not penetrative force? And no, he obviously didn't use Lariat to cut off his horn. He
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it and cleanly cut it off. His Karata Chops are penetrative due to the fact his arm is coated in Raiton. Tsunade isn't going to take them like she would his blunt force punches.
Regardless of how strong the Magatama are in comparison to V3 or otherwise. It's still easily a feat that outweighs Ay's strength as even with force being loss pushing her away, she broke through solid stone. Ay's strongest feat is Liger Bomb which rivals the damage caused by Tsunade's impact. And Tsunade's impact was not the brunt of the force.
Okay let's take a moment and think. He cut off his arm not in the heat of battle. In the same way Kabuto couldn't originally use chakra scalpels to slice through people in the heat of battle until he acquired sage mode.
Furthermore, let's talk about the difference between Ay chopping through Hachini's horn. something that was completely immobile, and him chopping at Tsunade who would move with his chop. Let's also discuss how his hand presents a lot of force on an incredibly small area when in comparison to the horn and how that ratio is dramatically skewed when we talk about it being an actual person. If Ay could just cut off limbs in the heat of battle he would've done it to someone.
Regardless of how strong the Magatama are in comparison to V3 or otherwise. It's still easily a feat that outweighs Ay's strength as even with force being loss pushing her away, she broke through solid stone. Ay's strongest feat is Liger Bomb which rivals the damage caused by Tsunade's impact. And Tsunade's impact was not the brunt of the force.
Ay hitting the cliff made a larger impact than Tsunade hitting the cliff from the Magatama. Where does the Manga say or show that Liger Bomb is Ay's strongest attack? In terms of actually dealing damage Ay's Karate Chop>>Liger Bomb as the latter cracked Susanoo but the former ripped right through it.
I'd also point out that the significantly faster person didn't force Madara to switch himself with a wood clone.His speed was never so great as to smash Madara's defenses as he had hoped but overall Tsunade reacting to a v2 sunshin blitz seems unlikely.
Which is why her strategy doesn't just rely on being reactive but by making it harder for Ay to use his shunshin. Whether that be through Katsuyu or a pulverized terrain slowing Ay down is within her power. Especially given that his strongest punch is still tankable and he isn't cutting through her on a blitz. Just not happening. It's why he needed Bee for his decapitation tech
Okay let's take a moment and think. He cut off his arm not in the heat of battle. In the same way Kabuto couldn't originally use chakra scalpels to slice through people in the heat of battle until he acquired sage mode.
Furthermore, let's talk about the difference between Ay chopping through Hachini's horn. something that was completely immobile, and him chopping at Tsunade who would move with his chop. Let's also discuss how his hand presents a lot of force on an incredibly small area when in comparison to the horn and how that ratio is dramatically skewed when we talk about it being an actual person. If Ay could just cut off limbs in the heat of battle he would've done it to someone.
Madara switched to a clone because of the pressure they all put on him obviously. If Tsunade was by herself she would get destroyed without him needing to feint them out. Not to mention that scenario and Tsunade being able to react to Ay's top speed don't correlate. I'm going to say this again. Someone faster than her w/ Sharingan failed to visually perceive Ay at top speed. She is NOT reacting.
How does Katsuyu help here? And pulverizing the terrain as a response to Ay's Shunshin only works if she can react to it in order to do that in the first place. Punching the ground before he comes at her isn't going to cause him to be unable to use Shunshin. His decapitation technique is a Double Lariat. You can't decapitate with a single lariat. Ay can factually cut using his chops so I have no idea why you bothered to bring this up.
-Suigetsu said Ay would've torn off his arms had he not been made of wate.r
-Cut Hachibi.
-Cut his hand.
Kabuto couldn't slice people in the heat of battle because his chakra scalpel wasn't that powerful until Part 2, has nothing to do with being in the heat of battle. The last paragraph also doesn't matter here because Ay's Karate Chop is a cutting technique. If a regular sword can cut without pushing the target back why would Ay's chop be any different here? His hand also isn't wider or larger than any of Tsunade's limbs or her body so why would energy per unit area be a viable argument here.
And I could easily say that If Madara could cut with his Susanoo he would've cut Tsunade instead of stabbing her, or something else that doesn't make sense. What Ay has done in the Manga has either worked, or what he has done failed without the possibility of a chop changing that.
Fact of the matter is, Ay's hand when coated in Raiton has cutting properties, which is why he was able to saw off his arm. Him putting more force behind that attack doesn't mean that it loses it's cutting properties. The fact he can do that while stationary and not adding as much force as he does for an actual attack only makes it that more likely that he can cut.
Even if he can't cut, he can still take off limbs as that scan with Suigetsu shows, and that was just his blunt force attack let alone an actual Karate Chop.
She isn't reacting to his top speed shunshin in V2 (fact), and she isn't going to survive a lighting karate chop to the neck or repeated blows to the head (fact). If he charges her, there isn't anything she can do...period lol. Tsunade laying a finger on A sounds absolutely asinine.
