Tsuki no Me was Insulting

[Zen Uchiha]

U cant complain abt Ino's dream.
How can a girl of her age hate a hottie like sasuke?

your a guy and calling Sauce a hottie? you need to chill

 

[shelke]

I have thanked and repped you. What I admire about you is your ability to present your point across in a thought out manner, regardless of the fact whether we end up agreeing or not.

That aside and I don't agree at all. Women do value relationships. There is no denying here. What you believe them to accomplish is the way things should be, I completely agree. But that would mean shying away from the reality that Romantic Relationships, the desire to get married, bear children is what most women vehemently desire - sometimes to obsessive degree. Believe you me, I have seen it with my own eyes.

Tsunade and Gaara's dreams are the most sympathizable. Tsunade wanted a life with Dan, with her brother by her side. You have to remember that Tsunade took the position because Dan and her brother desired it. She wanted to uphold their wishes. Gaara wanted a loving family. I don't see why it's insulting to want love from your familial relations. It's not even remotely insulting.

Then we have the issue of character depth. Then aside of Gaara and Tsunade, none of these characters are even remotely deep or well-characterized. You have to understand that their plot relevance is little in terms of how they drive the main character(s). Great post regardless.

 

[deadp00l]

This guy talks as if he knows everything about character depth. Lel.​

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[BloodSeed]

As i'm sure the sane people are aware, today's chapter was a horrible writing decision on Kishi's part for more reasons than one. Some of it does not need saying (kaguya cough) but Kishi has done some serious damage to his own series today. Mostly in the way he is ruining and devaluing existing relevant characters. The dreamworld section being his worst bit of writing in a LONG time.

All of the K11 and the Kage's treatment were absolute jokes, each one more painfully hollow than the last. Which i is an absolute shame because this chapter had the potential to be great. It was an awful awful montage that really highlighted just how little Kishi has developed these people and even those who are developed still suffered. Even complex character's motives were devolved this chapter and considering these are some of my favourite characters, people who we've followed for literally years and the personal main reason i'm still reading the manga at all- it was really tragic.

Let's go into detail.

Team Asuma

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Ugh, ffs Kishi. Whenever I stand up for a female character and dare say that they might have developed a single bit and be above this kind of crap you bring me straight back down to Earth. I did the exact same thing with Karin, when she got stabbed and we saw her in Konoha prison I thought that if she had any sense she'd wake up and realise Sasuke was corrupt. But no- released from prison and what's the first thing she starts doing? Dribbling over Sasuke again. Awful.

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Ino and Shikamaru have had Their f*cking dads die. They've been through the worst battlefield and fought their dead sensei and through the whole thing they were both strong and sensible. INO HAS SO CLEARLY DEVELOPED. She was a boss throughout the war and one of the most useful ninja in the alliance. What has happened to her. She should've been ready to kill Sasuke if he threatened the village not revert straight back to her Part 1 self. Fickle and embarrassing. I will never stand up for Ino again. Shikamaru's complex and interesting character has been reduced back to moaning about things, something he was forced to MATURE OUT OF with his talk with his father, way to take steps back in character development.

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Chouji's is the worst. As one of the best developed characters in the series going from gentle comic relief fat guy to genuine kind and total badass of the battlefield, no- apparently all he wants to do is eat things and have 'a sick pervert girl' be into him doing so. What. the. f*ck. Chouza. You're the one who gave him the speech about someone who'll love him for his kindness, someone who knows what it's like to be bullied and underestimated. Nope, apparently he just IS the comic relief fat guy. F*ck you Kishi.

Team Kurenai

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Another awful one. Kiba's almost makes sense but doesn't seem to add up with his character. See Kiba is a hugely underrated character in terms of depth. Being Hokage is the equivalent of being alpha-dog, the highest ranking of the pack so it makes sense but it's done so stupidly. Also the fact that Kiba DOESN'T ACTUALLY BELIEVE HE CAN BE HOKAGE, he's not actually meanly jealous of Naruto- he respects him. A dream where he can be considered equals with Naruto is clearly all he really wants. Perhaps venture further into his relationship with his mother and his missing father.

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Hinata is just a gross simple character entirely dependent on a male which is insulting to females and this panel proves it. Apparently all she ever wants is to sit on a bench holding Naruto-kun's hand with dead relatives watching on. Um wAIT A MINUTE HOW ABOUT WE FOCUS ON THE DEAD COUSIN WHO DIED FOR YOU

Why couldn't Hinata have aspirations of her own? The powerful head of the Hyuuga clan? The underdog worthy of her name? If Hinata has no desire to even be strong or lead the clan then Neji literally spent his years in slavery training her and dying for her for n o t h i n g.

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Shino? Pfft. Apparently he is just 'the bug guy'. Wow, that's some mean progression for 10 years. Shino could be sociable, and have many friends- loneliness is a bit more interesting to explore than big flying bugs. Whatever.

TEAM GUY

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Thank god, these guys came out mostly unscathed. Tenten whilst not being a hugely developed character (and yet still one of the best of the K11) had a decent one. Guy and Lee's wackiness drove her pretty much insane if you've ever read Naruto SD so this one is reasonable enough. Still though, it's entirely fixated and dependent on males. Didn't Tenten have Tsunade as a role model? A weapons expert? Proof that weapons could be taken seriously? ...nothing?

Lee's is standard but still lacking. It's a lovably simple character but even I still struggle believing he still loves Sakura. He's more self-aware than that. Defeating his rivals is essential for him but imagine Lee on top of a hill of defeated enemies or even Lee himself as an adult having his own student that he teaches of the way of youth? He would literally become his role model- which is so much more interesting and meaningful to him, that their way of life goes on.

Tsunade & Mei

Okay i'll excuse Gaara's one for being extremely cute and actually acknowledging the childhood he never had but the other two suck. Mei is a archetypal cliche of a woman who desires nothing more in life than to be married to a man, an outdated and weak concept. I refuse to believe a powerful world leader's only desire is to be dependent on some randomer.

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But Tsunades...Tsunade's was the absolute worst- it even makes me a little angry tbh, you're telling me this powerful strong-willed woman, the one who led the fight against Madara, was willing to give her life to heal the other Kage, defended the village against Pain and has been brave at every point....you're telling me her only 'REAL' desire is to be a housewife? To be the wife of a Hokage? Jeeeeesus christ. Dan wasn't even that powerful a ninja. Even in her own mind she's second in command. An insult to the only strong remaining female in this entire series.

Especially when you consider the possibilities and the potential of what this chapter COULD HAVE BEEN. I honestly would not have minded a 2 chapter exploration of the character's dreams. Explore more of their backgrounds and what they REALLY want as people not as cardboard cut-outs. Plus there is no indication that any of this is wrong- there should be an inkling that what is happening is artificial and wrong.

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Example: The likes of Team Asuma should've been in their shallow dreams shown today before Shikamaru realises that speaking to his dad and Asuma is wrong- and that it ruins the concept of the Will of Fire- which starts an internal crisis as to what he REALLY wants, realising the 'perfect dreamworld' is morally wrong. Chouji and Ino similarly realising that they aren't these shallow people anymore and that they've grown, questioning their own thoughts and life goals.

This would be a perfect time for the flaws of the K11 to come into fruition: Hinata REALISES she needs to be more than just a Naruto love machine, Kiba REALISES his headstrong nature etc etc. Remember Obito's time in the Tsuki no Me? That was artificial, it felt fake wrong and unnatural before turning nasty- not to mention some of Kishimoto's BEST writing ever.

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Just a sad sad time for a large majority of my favourite characters. A part of me is glad the likes of Sai, Orochimaru and Team Taka were left out so they could be spared the whitewashing Kishi was unleashing. You can so seriously tell the guy is not trying anymore just from the treatment of pretty much every character. Kishimoto tried his best to ruin some of my favourites, and sadly I think it worked. ​

lol how can he(kishi) draw something more complex. if he draw more complex dream, readers would not understand it and it will take time and more panels. and people like you will complain again for a waste of chapter. its alright for me coz its just show the effects of that genjutsu, kishi should focus on the war not on what inside the dreams of those shinobi

 

[SkyGodHorus]

I just wish he wouldn't make it so painfully obvious. Mess with your sh*tty Kaguya and Madara crap, leave these quality characters out of it yknow?

To me the manga ended back at Obito's defeat like a normal story should. We've been in this wasteland for too long- 3/4 consecutive villains in a row now.

Numbers, I've lost all respect for you. I once believed you were a neutral, objective criticizer and an interesting person to talk to but you've proved me wrong today. "All the sane people?" So those who enjoyed the chapter are insane then? That's very classy. "**** you kishimoto?" No, go **** yourself you sexist, free-loading egotistic douchebag. You have no right to say what a woman should be. It's a total contradiction to your narrow view of people. You also have no right to tell a mangaka whose manga you read for free to go **** off. And I just loved how you called all the females' dreams sexist but didn't refer to any of the males even though three of them involved romance as well. The dreams fit the characters' backgrounds almost perfectly in my opinion and in truth you do not understand a single one of them. "Ohhhh Gaara's was cute at least!" You make me ill and your "favoritizing" characters such as Obito and some of the K11 makes you that more biased and subjective. I also love how you think you are this deep, all knowing, all seeing writer, calling every Naruto twist you don't like shit while continuing to read it week after week, believing you can go back and change everything written in the series (when it isn't even finished yet) by adding in movie and filler plots that Kishimoto didn't even write, as well as your own random twists with absolutely no foreshadowings that contradict several other plots and character concepts. Get over yourself. "Normal story?" No story is "normal." They all have their own concepts, themes and styles.

If you're going to be so rabid about directions you don't like, just cease reading the manga altogether and write your own damn story. Or better yet, become one of those ******* anime publishers, directors and screenwriters who deviate from the direction of the mangas they adapt and end the anime early or quite differently just to add their own crap and make a buck rather than waiting for the manga to end before moving on to the next one since you seem incapable of writing anything coherent, compelling or original. Tsuki no me was insulting? Look whose calling the kettle black.

 

[DoubleKamui]

Well, okay then. I'm gonna be a good boy and enjoy the manga for what it is. I'm not going to nitpick at every single detail.

 

[Tazzilla88]

I generally agree with the large majority of what you said numbers. I do think though, sadly, Tsunade not being hokage makes sense.

In the flashbacks during the search for Tsunade arc, that was never her ambition. It was her brother's and Dan's.

More recently before Jiraiya died, she said that she would come with Jiraiya and fight beside him to the death. And as for the seat of hokage, Kakashi or Naruto could fill it.

Finally, she told Dan that she was shaped by his Desire to be hokage and she did what he couldn't.

I don't think Dan is strong enough to be hokage, but what this does display about Tsunade is unlike the current generation, Tsunade decided to become hokage out of obligation. And she held this obligation so dear that she put her life on the line for it on three completely separate occasions. She wasn't protecting her dream. She was protecting the dreams of the hokage who came before her, and the loved ones she lost. There's something to be said about that in terms of positive representation of character. It's easy to continually work doing your dream, but she continually worked because it was what was best for the leaf.

I also found it interesting that both Orochimaru and Jiraiya were apparently in their home. Which suggests, though she'd probably never admit it, she still feels a camaraderie with Orochimaru. And yet she has tried to kill him and as hunted him down in the name of being hokage and to protect the leaf. When she could have had Dan and Nawaki.

Also not being hokage =/= being a housewife. She still has her Yin seal, so it's quite possible, her ambition was to be the medical ninja/ doctor ever.