[VS] Tournament Finale: Minato (KidGamer65) vs SM Jiraiya (Apêx)

[Kages]

Good luck to both debaters. *_* And its funny how narutobase is dead yet people still flame each other
OT: I think Minato would win, but good luck Apex

 

[Beans2]

Apex needs to post.

 

[Apêx1]

Apex needs to post.

Rofl I just remembered the tourney was still going today. I'll try to post sometime tomorrow.

 

[TRE MERCER]

4 or 3 months to be exact.​

 

[Apêx1]

4 or 3 months to be exact.​

Is that the amount of time you cried after being one shotted by me?

 

[Apêx1]

Countering Jiraiya's basic offensive moveset.

Yomi Numa-One of Jiraiya's most annoying jutsu, but considering Minato can teleport...it's rendered absolutely useless. If caught, Minato simply tosses a Kunai in the air and warps away to land. If he can't toss a Kunai far enough to exit the swamp, which is highly unlikely, then he just double tosses while in the air, or summons (and marks in the process) a toad to jump off of. If Jiraiya starts off with this, then Minato evades it and spreads Kunai throughout the field. If Jiraiya doesn't start off with this, then Minato starts off by spreading a few Kunai, 5-10, around the field. Either by tossing them or via a clone.

I completely disagree with you on Yomi Numa being "absolutely useless" in this match-up. If anything it's the biggest deciding factor of this fight. As you said, Minato tosses Kunai's around the field like he has done in the past, notably versus Ay and Bee. All those Kunai basically disappear when Jiraiya's Yomi Numa occurs as they sink beneath the ground and thus no longer give Minato an effective form of defence/offence in terms of Hirashin. This is also an effective tool against Minato's summon. If Minato summons Gamahiro, Jiraiya can easily just sink him and make this an almost impossible battle for Minato as he needs to fight a gigantic Toad whilst also fighting Jiraiya and Ma/Pa simultaneously. I'll expand on Yomi Numa later on in my post.

Gama Rinsho-Depends on how long the battle lasts, but considering Minato is far faster than Jiraiya, and has Hiraishin and can sense chakra if need be, I think it's safe to say Jiraiya never gets it off, especially when his only way to hide would be inside that one frog due to the location being a plain desert.

I also don't believe there's any reason for Jiraiya to resort to this jutsu.

Frog Call-Doesn't help since it stops movements, not thoughts, and a thought is all he needs if he wants to teleport away. Not to mention he'd be able to simply evade this regardless of having Hiraishin or not since the only way the tech works is if the sound waves actually hit you.

That's true, but you fail to take into account that Minato has no markings in the area since they've been sunk by Yomi Numa. An effective strategy would be Yomi Numa whilst the Toads cast Frog Call on Minato. He will sink and all his kunai's will sink at the same time. Due to his paralysis there's literally nothing he can do but sink. That's already gg. Don't tell me outside of Yomi Numa's range because a sick Base Jiraiya made one which was absolutely huge [

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]. Keep in mind Manda can wrap around creatures of Katsuyu and Bunta's size several times [

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]. This is healthy SM Jiraiya who could probably make one 3 times+ larger, give or take, so literally no kunai will ever be outside of its range.

Goemon, and all of Jiraiya's offensive Katon-Easily evaded via Hiraishin except maybe Toad Oil Flame Bomb due to it's AoE, if there is no marking outside of his AoE, then Minato simply sucks it in with Space Time Barrier.

True, his large scale Katon's are mostly countered with S/T barrier if used alone. However, once again, the employment of his Yomi Numa with a clone whilst Jiraiya and Bunta utilise Toad Oil Flame Bomb would pretty much leave Minato the opportunity to either die from the flame or sink and stay sunk.

Chou Oodama Rasengan-Evaded with ease. Jiraiya getting this close would be suicide anyway.

Agreed.

Gamabunta is stalled by Gamahiro if he is summoned. If Jiraiya and Bunta fight in tandem, (which is far more likely) then Minato simply uses S/T Barrier to redirect all of Bunta's projectile attacks, and teleports Hiro around to let him easily get Bunta before he can properly react.

Not a chance. Gamahiro disappears the instant he is summoned via Yomi Numa, Bunta's Water Bullets (nothing begins to imply Gamahiro's durability is comparable to Bunta's), Ma/Pa's tongues, etc. Frog Call immobilises him and Pa's tongue goes through his head.

Things like Needle Jizo or Ma/Pa's offensive techniques are easily evaded.

Needle Jizo out of the random is evaded, yes. Same with Ma and Pa's techniques, but as I have already shown using jutsu in combination/conjunction with one another is extremely effective in Jiraiya's case.

How Minato ends Jiraiya

None of Jiraiya's attacks that he can perform on his own are going to help here due to the lack of AoE and speed, two things he needs if he wants to catch Minato. Attempting to limit his teleportation range won't help either since Minato doesn't need to leave Kunai on the ground to teleport, he can always make a clone or two. His attacks with large AoE are straightforward, thus S/T Barrier would easily suck them in. That leaves Jiraiya with zero chance of hitting Minato. On the other hand, Jiraiya has no chance of outrunning or escaping Minato's assault when he can't react to Hiraishin. Minato either tosses several Kunai at and near Jiraiya's location (20m distance) in an attempt to try and quickly end it with a blitz, or he just closes the distance between them on foot, countering his moves as described above, and then starts flicking his Kunai around, allowing him to end Jiraiya.

Not too long.

I definitely think you are severely underrating Jiraiya's kit here. He's a Sage, he has two Sages on his shoulders, and he has several ways of dealing with Minato. First of all, the DBIV tells us Jiraiya can in fact use Frog Kata and also states he's a 'danger sensing user/sensor due to SM'. Moreover, Jiraiya has his Canopy Barrier. These two techniques make him extremely effective at fighting since he'll literally know everything that's happening as if he's looking at Minato. Minato can teleport all he wants, Jiraiya is virtually looking at him at any moment. Let's also not forget to mention that Ma and Pa are right there too, with SM enhanced strength (plus increased invisible range) capable of one shotting Minato, and a tongue which can be aimed at Minato's next anticipated location whilst Shima's tongue is also roaming in the area. Not only this, but there's also the fact that Jiraiya's hair is immensely versatile. We have seen it blitz both Konan (as indicated by exclamation) [

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] and Animal Path (from like 30 meters

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) in the past.

He can also manipulate his hair to an extreme extent as shown here

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where he releases multiple sections of hair and has each section restrain/crush a different body part of the crab. Thus Jiraiya does not even need to move his own body in that sense, just a mere thought in conjunction with his two forms of sensing and the movement of his extremely fast hair would be enough. Don't tell me it won't be fast enough. Sure, Minato teleports, but his striking speed is not teleportation. He still needs to react and attack. This procedure, although may seem extremely quick, is actually not. When Minato teleported to Ay and was about to strike, Bee was capable of sending out his tentacle to push away Minato before Minato could actually strike

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. And his tentacle was sent out from a large distance rather then from point blank like Jiraiya's hair would be. Bee was also just fine reacting to Minato's second teleportation with his regular arm movements

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and he's not even a sensor like Jiraiya is. I fail to see how someone of Jiraiya's tier would 'so easily' lose to Hirashin when he has so many methods of dealing with it.

 

[KidGamer65]

How many posts are we each doing?

 

[Apêx1]

How many posts are we each doing?

2? Idk I don't mind bro

 

[TRE MERCER]

Is that the amount of time you cried after being one shotted by me?

Where did this come from?

Anyways anybody who's ever beat me cherished that win so i don't blame you for constantly bringing it up.​

 

[Unorthodox]

Computers megamix hard

 

[KidGamer65]

2? Idk I don't mind bro

Alright. 2 should be good.

 

[Varrah]

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[KidGamer65]

I completely disagree with you on Yomi Numa being "absolutely useless" in this match-up. If anything it's the biggest deciding factor of this fight. As you said, Minato tosses Kunai's around the field like he has done in the past, notably versus Ay and Bee. All those Kunai basically disappear when Jiraiya's Yomi Numa occurs as they sink beneath the ground and thus no longer give Minato an effective form of defence/offence in terms of Hirashin. This is also an effective tool against Minato's summon. If Minato summons Gamahiro, Jiraiya can easily just sink him and make this an almost impossible battle for Minato as he needs to fight a gigantic Toad whilst also fighting Jiraiya and Ma/Pa simultaneously. I'll expand on Yomi Numa later on in my post.

Then Minato would just do what I said he'd do above and escape by tossing a Kunai to escape the swamp.

That's true, but you fail to take into account that Minato has no markings in the area since they've been sunk by Yomi Numa. An effective strategy would be Yomi Numa whilst the Toads cast Frog Call on Minato. He will sink and all his kunai's will sink at the same time. Due to his paralysis there's literally nothing he can do but sink. That's already gg. Don't tell me outside of Yomi Numa's range because a sick Base Jiraiya made one which was absolutely huge [

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]. Keep in mind Manda can wrap around creatures of Katsuyu and Bunta's size several times [

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]. This is healthy SM Jiraiya who could probably make one 3 times+ larger, give or take, so literally no kunai will ever be outside of its range.

Few things you aren't considering here.

1. Yomi Numa is far longer than it is wide. [

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] He can even it out on all sides if he wants, but the width or the height will have to decrease, so using this exact scale as evidence Minato can't toss his Kunai out doesn't work.

2. He doesn't need to throw it outside of Yomi Numa's range in one go. He can toss it, teleport to it and then toss it outside again in the second try. Can also be used to evade Frog Call.

3. He can summon a Toad to push himself out of the swamp and then evade Frog Call.

4. Unless Jiraiya wants to get stuck in the swamp, (which would be GG for him since he has no way of getting out) he'd have to form Yomi Numa at a position where he doesn't get stuck. They start 20m away from each other, thus 20m forward and beyond is a safe zone where Minato can put a marking if he wants to escape it. The only way this strategy works is if Jiraiya forms Yomi Numa at a place where Minato is stuck in or near the center, but since he's so close that he'd be caught too, this doesn't work. So all Minato does is toss a bunch of Kunai in Jiraiya's general direction if he wants to escape the swamp.

True, his large scale Katon's are mostly countered with S/T barrier if used alone. However, once again, the employment of his Yomi Numa with a clone whilst Jiraiya and Bunta utilise Toad Oil Flame Bomb would pretty much leave Minato the opportunity to either die from the flame or sink and stay sunk.

Or he can just deal with the swamp with any of the methods listed above. Or he can just make a Shadow Clone to suck up the flame via Space Time Barrier while he escapes himself.

Not a chance. Gamahiro disappears the instant he is summoned via Yomi Numa, Bunta's Water Bullets (nothing begins to imply Gamahiro's durability is comparable to Bunta's), Ma/Pa's tongues, etc. Frog Call immobilises him and Pa's tongue goes through his head.

Most of that stuff can be evaded via Hiraishin, which Minato can use to take Gamahiro along with him after he escapes the swamp.

-Yomi Numa isn't going to trap him or his summon for the reasons stated above.
-Frog Call is evaded via Hiraishin, same with the tongue attack.
-S/T Barrier sucks up the Water Bullet and redirects it.

Minato's clone playing as support for Gamahiro=A Dead Gamabunta. The real Minato takes the fight directly to Jiraiya, wherever he might be, and kills him.

Btw, Gamahiro, Bunta and Ken all took similar amounts of damage from Pain's Shinra Tensei, so while Bunta may be more durable, the gap obviously isn't large enough for Water Bullet to one shot Gamahiro when Gamabunta tanked Shukaku's Wind Bullet with minimal damage, and Water Bullet only matched that after being fired downwards with gravity as an aid. If durability were as far off as you claim, Hiro would be dead if

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NINJUTSU; Suiton: Teppoudama (Water Release: Gunshot)
User: Gamabunta
Offensive; Close, Medium, Long ranges; Rank: C

Main text

One kneads up chakra, converts it into Water, and then spits it out in the form of condensated balls...! Indeed, the high-speed waterball attack possesses just as much power to kill and main as an actual gunshot!! While this is a Suiton jutsu, it can still be employed someplace where no water is available, which is a great advantage. It's also possible to increase the power of destruction of the balls themselves by building up the chakra inside of them.

Captions

-A watery supra-cannonball!!

-A life-threatening shot straight at the enemy!!

Picture comments

-The number of bullets is determined while kneading chakra!

-Watery cannonballs are propelled from the Toad Boss' huge mouth. Their dimensions are extremely large in scale, akin to those of a small cliff!! By taking advantage of gravity, they brutally increase in power!!

I definitely think you are severely underrating Jiraiya's kit here. He's a Sage, he has two Sages on his shoulders, and he has several ways of dealing with Minato. First of all, the DBIV tells us Jiraiya can in fact use Frog Kata and also states he's a 'danger sensing user/sensor due to SM'. Moreover, Jiraiya has his Canopy Barrier. These two techniques make him extremely effective at fighting since he'll literally know everything that's happening as if he's looking at Minato. Minato can teleport all he wants, Jiraiya is virtually looking at him at any moment. Let's also not forget to mention that Ma and Pa are right there too, with SM enhanced strength (plus increased invisible range) capable of one shotting Minato, and a tongue which can be aimed at Minato's next anticipated location whilst Shima's tongue is also roaming in the area. Not only this, but there's also the fact that Jiraiya's hair is immensely versatile. We have seen it blitz both Konan (as indicated by exclamation) [

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] and Animal Path (from like 30 meters

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) in the past.

Sensing is completely irrelevant here. It doesn't help when Minato is teleporting to evade since surprise attacks were never going to be a factor in a desert and it doesn't help offensively since he still lacks the speed to react to any Hiraishin blitz, regardless of sensing.

-Frog Kata is irrelevant as Jiraiya will never be able to hit Minato with his Ninjutsu let alone his physical strikes. Not to mention Minato has knowledge of all the sage abilities. He's not going to be taken out by Frog Kata by surprise or anything like Preta Path was.
-SM strength is irrelevant for the same reason.
-Aiming at Minato's anticipated destination doesn't work since none of them have techniques fast enough to actually capitalize on this strategy like Ay did, and as far as I know, none of these people have attacks even close to Ay's max speed.

Not even sure why you bothered to mention most of this stuff as it doesn't even help him do anything significant, especially the last bit about Jiraiya's hair blitzing two people who are nowhere near Minato's level of speed.

He can also manipulate his hair to an extreme extent as shown here

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where he releases multiple sections of hair and has each section restrain/crush a different body part of the crab. Thus Jiraiya does not even need to move his own body in that sense, just a mere thought in conjunction with his two forms of sensing and the movement of his extremely fast hair would be enough. Don't tell me it won't be fast enough. Sure, Minato teleports, but his striking speed is not teleportation. He still needs to react and attack. This procedure, although may seem extremely quick, is actually not. When Minato teleported to Ay and was about to strike, Bee was capable of sending out his tentacle to push away Minato before Minato could actually strike

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. And his tentacle was sent out from a large distance rather then from point blank like Jiraiya's hair would be. Bee was also just fine reacting to Minato's second teleportation with his regular arm movements

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and he's not even a sensor like Jiraiya is. I fail to see how someone of Jiraiya's tier would 'so easily' lose to Hirashin when he has so many methods of dealing with it.

First of all, never mention Ay vs. Minato again when you are trying to prove Minato's striking speed is ridiculously slow. As seen by Minato's

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and pure common sense, he'd have to put more momentum in his strike if he wants to damage Ay through his shroud. Thus his strike would be far slower than if he had just striked as soon as he appeared.

And when will people stop saying that Killer B reacted to Hiraishin or reacted to Minato? Minato teleported to him and held his Kunai above his head. Minato made no movement for Killer B to react to. That's Killer B predicting that Minato would come for him. Either that or you try to argue that Killer B put his hand there as Minato was teleporting to him, but that's impossible as Hiraishin is instant and Killer B is far from instant.

Then we have the fact that Minato blitzed Obito

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. He was about to do the same to Naruto in the War, right before he saw Kakashi and Gai coming, thus had to switch to

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So the whole process is not automatic, Obito's input is still required if he wants to switch between "ghost mode" and "tangible mode" yet Minato was fast enough to stop that. I really hope you aren't going to argue that Obito's mental reaction is that much slower than Killer B's tentacle.


So we have Minato, a clone or two and a teleporting frog vs. Jiraiya, Ma and Pa, and Bunta. Hiro and clone take apart Gamabunta while Minato and second clone take apart Jiraiya. Most of Jiraiya's moves are useless here, and he won't react to Hiraishin+Rasengan once Minato gets close, which he undoubtedly will due to far superior speed and the ability to teleport. Yomi Numa is completely useless for the simple fact that if he wants to make Minato's distance from any dry land too far for him to simply toss a Kunai to, he'd have to make Minato (and by extension himself) the center of the swamp, meaning he gets caught and dies since he can't escape. Ma and Pa's individual moves are useless against Minato in close combat. If Jiraiya can't even handle a single Minato, good luck to him taking on Minato and a clone.

 

[EZQ]

This wasn't judged

 

[Apêx1]

It wasn't finished lmao. I'll try to get to this on Wednesday.

 

[Apêx1]

Then Minato would just do what I said he'd do above and escape by tossing a Kunai to escape the swamp.

Meaning you're basically conceding that all the Kunai will be disappearing into the swamp and thus become useless. Any and all kunai ever used in the beginning middle and end of the battle just sink to the bottom of a ~100 meter swamp given a sick/poisoned Jiraiya without SM virtually sunk the snake's body [

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]. He even stated the drug was the only reason he could only create a "SMALL" swamp

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and thus a Base Jiraiya could indeed sink that snake's entire body. So obviously the swamp is not "useless" at all. He survives the swamp which was never intended to kill him, and loses the necessary terrain for effective Hirashin usage.

Few things you aren't considering here.

1. Yomi Numa is far longer than it is wide. [

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] He can even it out on all sides if he wants, but the width or the height will have to decrease, so using this exact scale as evidence Minato can't toss his Kunai out doesn't work.

2. He doesn't need to throw it outside of Yomi Numa's range in one go. He can toss it, teleport to it and then toss it outside again in the second try. Can also be used to evade Frog Call.

3. He can summon a Toad to push himself out of the swamp and then evade Frog Call.

4. Unless Jiraiya wants to get stuck in the swamp, (which would be GG for him since he has no way of getting out) he'd have to form Yomi Numa at a position where he doesn't get stuck. They start 20m away from each other, thus 20m forward and beyond is a safe zone where Minato can put a marking if he wants to escape it. The only way this strategy works is if Jiraiya forms Yomi Numa at a place where Minato is stuck in or near the center, but since he's so close that he'd be caught too, this doesn't work. So all Minato does is toss a bunch of Kunai in Jiraiya's general direction if he wants to escape the swamp.

1. So you are telling me a healthy SM Jiraiya can't create something at the very least, 3-5x the size of what he could in Base and so poisoned that he couldn't even hold chop sticks in his hand? [

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] He literally says he can't release chakra well so the mere fact he created something like that in Base is more than enough reason for me to believe SM Jiraiya's will be FAR larger than this. We know Senjutsu enhancement is huge by itself, just look at the difference in Rasengan power [

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]vs[

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]. Same applies to this, Senjutsu is a multiplier just like Kyuubi chakra. A Kyuubi cloak created a boost much larger than 5x yet KCM FRS and SM FRS are basically the same in power, and KCM>>>>>>Kyuubi cloak with no tails. So the swamp will be at the VERY LEAST 5x boost considering this time, Jiraiya is no sick either. 5x boost is a complete low-ball estimate too, to avoid arguments since 5x is all it needs. Hell, 3x is still enough to validate my point.

2. If this was full intel I'd agree with you. But its manga intel and there's absolutely no reason to believe he knows any of Ma/Pa's jutsu. I said Yomi Numa happens whilst Frog Call is already being cast ie they're already releasing the sounds. So the sounds are travelling>Yomi Numa sinks Minato>Minato is already being hit by the sound>Minato needs to react to what's occurring even then> Not a chance in hell he could send a kunai given the speed of the Frog Call waves. Frog Call is practically instant

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, it's not like Frog Genjutsu.

3. What??? Frog Call is being cast WHILST Yomi Numa is being used. How the hell is he going to summon whilst being paralysed and sunk simultaneously? Plus, this would mean Gamahiro is now on the bottom of a pit drowning. What will Minato do versus Gamabunta in this case? This strategy most definitely kills Minato, sinking while paralysed will kill him as there's no counter to it at all when all his kunai's are within the Yomi Numa. Not to mention, Frog Call would AOE engulf both Minato and Gamairo so it's not being evaded in the first place

4. And again, this is MANGA intel. Jiraiya knows about FTG and its workings. Jiraiya uses the swamp right in front of him and Minato throwing a kunai anywhere forward in hopes of his kunai reaching that 20 meter distance gets countered by Jiraiya's own kunai or even better, his hair. That way, if Minato wants to consecutively teleport he'll be getting hit by Jiraiya's hair before he can throw the kunai again. Even Kebari Senbon [

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] would get that job accomplished easily, so I genuinely don't think this is a counter at all since the 20 meters in front of Minato is a no-go zone. That kunai is then deflected back to Minato's direction and into the swamp.

Or he can just deal with the swamp with any of the methods listed above. Or he can just make a Shadow Clone to suck up the flame via Space Time Barrier while he escapes himself.

So what you are saying right now is that Minato can create shadow clones and then throw kunai's away all before he gets sunk by Yomi Numa. What??.. You think Jiraiya's swamp sinks you 1cm a second? It sunk a ~20 meter thick body in a mere instant as represented by the THREE exclamation marks

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. And no, gravity as nothing to do with anything here so the snake's weight is not the only reason he sunk, seeing how he instantly sunk human path while he was UPSIDE DOWN. Yes, he was on the top of the ceiling and Yomi Numa worked against gravity and absorbed him in within an instant to as far as the swamp was deep. Inb4 the swamp was not deep so Minato won't be sunk, it wasn't deep because Sound Genjutsu was supposed to one shot him and he needs ears for that. Minato will be sunk in ~1 second in a massive swamp and that's all the time he has to react and use whatever he can. A clone is not happening, let alone all these seals plus throwing a kunai

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all before he's sunk seeing how I said Yomi Numa happens at the same time of the Katon, but the Katon needs to travel and thus he'll be sinking before he's absorbing the Katon.

Most of that stuff can be evaded via Hiraishin, which Minato can use to take Gamahiro along with him after he escapes the swamp.

-Yomi Numa isn't going to trap him or his summon for the reasons stated above.
-Frog Call is evaded via Hiraishin, same with the tongue attack.
-S/T Barrier sucks up the Water Bullet and redirects it.

Minato's clone playing as support for Gamahiro=A Dead Gamabunta. The real Minato takes the fight directly to Jiraiya, wherever he might be, and kills him.

Btw, Gamahiro, Bunta and Ken all took similar amounts of damage from Pain's Shinra Tensei, so while Bunta may be more durable, the gap obviously isn't large enough for Water Bullet to one shot Gamahiro when Gamabunta tanked Shukaku's Wind Bullet with minimal damage, and Water Bullet only matched that after being fired downwards with gravity as an aid. If durability were as far off as you claim, Hiro would be dead if

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Man.. I know you don't actually think Minato can summon, tag his summon, throw kunai's and do 100 other things before anything happens. You're saying really far-fetched things here.

??? I said Gamahiro disappears from those attacks. You're telling me Minato will use Hirashin to take Gamahiro around with him? Dafuk? I didn't know we were debating Edo Minato, because Minato is tiring out from ~5 uses of Hirashin on Gamahiro. Minato before teleporting Kyuubi

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. Minato after teleporting Kyuubi panting

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. Fukasaku and Shima can spam their tongue attacks ALL DAY LONG. So how exactly is Gamahiro surviving here? It's literally going to either

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/decompose him. I'll agree on Water Bullets not killing him though.
And Jiraiya is capable of using clones too in the case you didn't know. Jiraiya is on Bunta so I don't see why you're mentioning clones, would not make any sense for me to be talking about all of these combination jutsu if he wasn't on Bunta.

Sensing is completely irrelevant here. It doesn't help when Minato is teleporting to evade since surprise attacks were never going to be a factor in a desert and it doesn't help offensively since he still lacks the speed to react to any Hiraishin blitz, regardless of sensing.

-Frog Kata is irrelevant as Jiraiya will never be able to hit Minato with his Ninjutsu let alone his physical strikes. Not to mention Minato has knowledge of all the sage abilities. He's not going to be taken out by Frog Kata by surprise or anything like Preta Path was.
-SM strength is irrelevant for the same reason.
-Aiming at Minato's anticipated destination doesn't work since none of them have techniques fast enough to actually capitalize on this strategy like Ay did, and as far as I know, none of these people have attacks even close to Ay's max speed.

Not even sure why you bothered to mention most of this stuff as it doesn't even help him do anything significant, especially the last bit about Jiraiya's hair blitzing two people who are nowhere near Minato's level of speed.

Wat. How can sensing ever be irrelevant. Teleporting in front of Jiraiya's face is the same as teleporting behind him because it's like he sees you with his eyes at a heightened degree at all stages. The only difference is that he lacks hands, but at the same time he has hair which is not only faster but also more lethal and engulfs a much wider area. Also, you're not telling me how the kunai even reaches? You're just saying Hirashin blitz gg.. That's not how it works. First you need to explain how he can even come so close to Jiraiya in the first place because to just say Hirashin blitz too fast 4 u is not an argument at all. What about kunai's deflecting Minato's kunai? What about Kebari Senbon shitting on any number of kunai's being used by Minato? What about Jiraiya's hair extending and literally stopping the kunai in its tracks? You don't even say what distance his kunai is when Minato Hirashin's, you just say Jiraiya can't react as if the kunai starts in front of Jiraiya's face?

@bold, no idea what you're on about dude. I'm showing you how fast it is ie it can reach Minato before he can swing, depending on where his location is. Unless you have some amazing Minato striking feats that I don't know of (there aren't any actual ones).

First of all, never mention Ay vs. Minato again when you are trying to prove Minato's striking speed is ridiculously slow. As seen by Minato's

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and pure common sense, he'd have to put more momentum in his strike if he wants to damage Ay through his shroud. Thus his strike would be far slower than if he had just striked as soon as he appeared.

And when will people stop saying that Killer B reacted to Hiraishin or reacted to Minato? Minato teleported to him and held his Kunai above his head. Minato made no movement for Killer B to react to. That's Killer B predicting that Minato would come for him. Either that or you try to argue that Killer B put his hand there as Minato was teleporting to him, but that's impossible as Hiraishin is instant and Killer B is far from instant.

Then we have the fact that Minato blitzed Obito

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. He was about to do the same to Naruto in the War, right before he saw Kakashi and Gai coming, thus had to switch to

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So the whole process is not automatic, Obito's input is still required if he wants to switch between "ghost mode" and "tangible mode" yet Minato was fast enough to stop that. I really hope you aren't going to argue that Obito's mental reaction is that much slower than Killer B's tentacle.

So you're saying because Minato needs to put more momentum behind his strike, reacting from several meters is possible when Jiraiya is only a ~meter away? Wow much momentum bro.

But he anticipated it did he not? He had his attack ready for Minato. A sensor like Jiraiya can also have his hair ready at all times anticipating the Hirashin so the moment Minato teleports he's getting done in. I'm not saying people can actually react to speed of light+ in Naruto, but I am saying anticipating it and then reacting/matching the striking speed is possible. That's exactly what Jiraiya could do with his hair. But either way, it's a complete fact that Minato would've died too even though he used Hirashin since Bee anticipated his attack. Nothing at all is stopping Jiraiya's hair from remaining in an attacking/defensive position.

Bro stop. By your logic 3T child Sasuke and Hebi Sasuke would fare in the same way against their respective opponents. And not even that, because Hebi Sasuke grew by 2 years in age from VOTE whereas child Obito went from 14 to 31. 17 years lmfao. AND not even that. NOT EVEN. Obito got a Rinnegan in the instance you're talking about. He said the Rinnegan's chakra power was immense and gave insane capabilities as shown by his ability in the war. There's literally nothing to compare here man, NOTHING. You can't even tell me VOTE Sasuke's reaction speed is in the same LEAGUE as Hebi Sasuke's who only progressed by 3 years in age, basically 1/6th of Obito's age difference minus the Rinnegan. Don't talk about him reacting to 6G Gai but not being able to react to Rasengan because it makes no sense whatsoever. 0 logic or reasoning behind it. Child Obito should not be a comparison point for himself when he's older just like child Gai is not Adult Gai, child Kakashi is not Adult Kakashi, Child Lee is not himself only 3 years later, etc, etc.

So we have Minato, a clone or two and a teleporting frog vs. Jiraiya, Ma and Pa, and Bunta. Hiro and clone take apart Gamabunta while Minato and second clone take apart Jiraiya. Most of Jiraiya's moves are useless here, and he won't react to Hiraishin+Rasengan once Minato gets close, which he undoubtedly will due to far superior speed and the ability to teleport. Yomi Numa is completely useless for the simple fact that if he wants to make Minato's distance from any dry land too far for him to simply toss a Kunai to, he'd have to make Minato (and by extension himself) the center of the swamp, meaning he gets caught and dies since he can't escape. Ma and Pa's individual moves are useless against Minato in close combat. If Jiraiya can't even handle a single Minato, good luck to him taking on Minato and a clone.

Already addressed pretty much everything here. Swamp+Frog Call ends this, trying to use the 20 meter swamp distance in front of him gets countered by Kebari Senbon or kunai's, Minato's FTG kunai's get countered by kunai's or Kebari Senbon, Jiraiya is logically on Bunta and I have no idea how you misunderstood him not being on it despite all the combination jutsu's I mentioned so that's definitely not my fault. Minato tries to close the distance and Jiraiya's hair stops him in his tracks neg diff given its immense size

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. 2 clones won't change anything, Jiraiya can manipulate an immense amount of different sections adeptly

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. Either way, you never even explained how Minato would close the distance so I don't see why we're jumping ahead of ourselves and saying he's in front of Jiraiya when he's on top of Bunta.

 

[Ambivalence]

Great, that makes 2 posts from each. Now all that's left is to wait a few months or so for this to get judged and we'll finally see who won. :lol

 

[Apêx1]

Great, that makes 2 posts from each. Now all that's left is to wait a few months or so for this to get judged and we'll finally see who won. :lol

u mad

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[Unorthodox]

Battle of the fanboys

 

[Icelerate]

Battle of the fanboys

You mean this?

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