[Discussion] Toki toki no mi

chopstickchakra

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Thread starter #1
Let's hear some ideas on how you think it works.

Kin'emon knew he got sent 20 years, how? Did she tell them that? Is 20 years her standard time jump range? Can she pick and choose the length or does she/travelers have to take what happens? Can she choose locations too or simply move x amount of years into the future at that exact location?
 

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Let's hear some ideas on how you think it works.
Okay
Kin'emon knew he got sent 20 years, how?
He probably saw the calendar or newspaper.

Did she tell them that?
I don't think she met with them in current timeline.

Is 20 years her standard time jump range?
I don't think so. She knows a lot about future. So may be she some sort of time Traveller.
Can she pick and choose the length or does she/travelers have to take what happens?
She most certain can choose the length as she knew after 20years samurais will come to beat the shit out of Orochi.
Can she choose locations too or simply move x amount of years into the future at that exact location?
It's not clear if she can or can't send them to different location. I think she can't.
 

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Okay

He probably saw the calendar or newspaper.
Good point but he said it right at arrival.


I don't think she met with them in current timeline.
I mean before she sent them did she say "I'm sending you all 20 years in the future so you can stop Kaido"

I don't think so. She knows a lot about future. So may be she some sort of time Traveller.
I don't think her fruit can go back so she's not getting intel about the future and coming back I don't think.

She most certain can choose the length as she knew after 20years samurais will come to beat the shit out of Orochi.
I think it would be a good risk to handicap it if you can jump in the future but you never know by how far so you have to be very careful and choosy about using it.

It's not clear if she can or can't send them to different location. I think she can't.
I don't think she can either, I think it's just time. Which means she could send you into anything, what if a new building had been built and they ended up landing right where a wall or something is, or land in front of a battle etc.
 

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Yes oda explained it clearly or rather he also knows she is from distant past who travelled in time. However once you go ahead you cannot go back . Really interesting df i gotta say i am pretty sure WG have noidea there is a person with time df who might possibly witnessed void century and atrocities of WG.

I am pretty sure if WG finds out they will go nuts and hunt down the df user who is having tokis df . I am pretty red hair pirates has it at the moment considering how they reached in time for marineford or travelled from new world to mariejoa.

Perhaps you can stop the time as well for certain part .
 

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Yes oda explained it clearly or rather he also knows she is from distant past who travelled in time. However once you go ahead you cannot go back . Really interesting df i gotta say i am pretty sure WG have noidea there is a person with time df who might possibly witnessed void century and atrocities of WG.

I am pretty sure if WG finds out they will go nuts and hunt down the df user who is having tokis df . I am pretty red hair pirates has it at the moment considering how they reached in time for marineford or travelled from new world to mariejoa.

Perhaps you can stop the time as well for certain part .
Only that DF has little to no use anymore. Toki died 20 years ago and if someone else ate the new fruit, then that person would only be able to jump forward from the moment he/she ate it, which is 20 years tops. That person would most likely have no connection either with the Void Century, so there would be no reason for the WG to hunt him/her. Jumping from 20 years ago or less to the present doesn't really do anything and jumping from the present to the future makes no sense as we follow the story in the present. Unless it would be very short jumps, which is kinda pointless.

And how would this help Shanks in any way? The DF allows the user to jump forward in time, not jump locations or at least that's not something you can just assume. So if anything that is the last ability Shanks would need. They were amazed he was able to cross a certain distance quickly, so if he made a forward time jump, the only thing it would have done was shortening the time he had to cross the exact same distance. Unless he travelled to Marineford before the war, but that would mean he somehow blitzed across the oceans even faster after he had his encounter with Kaidou. Same thing with him popping up at Mariejoise. If he made a time leap, that would require him to have been already at the location, but if he already was there, what use did the leap then have?

Simply put if the Toki Toki no Mi would allow you to teleport, the way it was used or might have been used, was horribly inefficient and borderline insane.

Just my personal opinion, but I think that DF already served its purpose other than potential consequences that haven't been revealed yet from earlier uses.
 

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What if Shanks does have the fruit and got to mf so fast because in the future he was at Marineford so he just jumped from where he was to when he knew he would arrive in mf.
 

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What if Shanks does have the fruit and got to mf so fast because in the future he was at Marineford so he just jumped from where he was to when he knew he would arrive in mf.
I don't think her fruit can let you move places across time just across time. So if you're at point A and you jump x time into the future you arrive at point A not a place of your choice.
 

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I still think she can jump into future n return back to present. There's no way she knew what's gonna happen in future if she can't come back to present.
She could have told them that having planned to build the resistance and find the samurai, the one guy says something along those lines "we believed her when she said you'd be here" If I send you 20 years in the future and tell you when you get there, there will be people waiting for you, I have 20 years to set it up so they're there. Unless she died that night but I don't think she did.
 
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I still think she can jump into future n return back to present. There's no way she knew what's gonna happen in future if she can't come back to present.
Only we've already met a character that was able to see into the future (Madame Shirley).

If Lady Toki was able to go back and forth in time, how did they end up in the first place in such a disadvantageous situation? Not to mention the moment time travel to the past is introduced, Pandora's Box is opened as then you have the issues of alternative timelines and past actions influencing future ones etc. I'm pretty sure one of the reasons it was explicitly stated early on that she could only go forward in time, was to avoid these issues.
 

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#11
Only we've already met a character that was able to see into the future (Madame Shirley).

If Lady Toki was able to go back and forth in time, how did they end up in the first place in such a disadvantageous situation? Not to mention the moment time travel to the past is introduced, Pandora's Box is opened as then you have the issues of alternative timelines and past actions influencing future ones etc. I'm pretty sure one of the reasons it was explicitly stated early on that she could only go forward in time, was to avoid these issues.
Problem is if she can see future she would have seen the fall of Wano/Kozuki Oden like Shirley saw the fall of FI.
She would have alerted Oden or sent him to future which she didn't. This could mean that she can't alter the timeline even if she knows what's going to happen in future. So there still lies a possibility that she can go back n forth.

She could have told them that having planned to build the resistance and find the samurai, the one guy says something along those lines "we believed her when she said you'd be here" If I send you 20 years in the future and tell you when you get there, there will be people waiting for you, I have 20 years to set it up so they're there. Unless she died that night but I don't think she did.
I agree about the resistance part but how was she sure that 9Samurais will appear(20years later) n then Kozuki Clan will have the revenge ???
Note: She didn't sent 9guys in future.
It means she saw 9guys (maybe SHs) taking down Orochi n Kaido. This type of seeing future hasn't shown by even Shirley as she only saw Luffy standing on destroyed FI but in Toki's case she is sure that Kozuki will have the revenge 20years later.

Good point but he said it right at arrival
Nope he had no idea where he was.
https://**********/r/one_piece/920/5390/10?mobile=1

He later learnt that they are 20years in future
https://**********/r/one_piece/920/5390/12?mobile=1
 

chopstickchakra

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Problem is if she can see future she would have seen the fall of Wano/Kozuki Oden like Shirley saw the fall of FI.
She would have alerted Oden or sent him to future which she didn't. This could mean that she can't alter the timeline even if she knows what's going to happen in future. So there still lies a possibility that she can go back n forth.



I agree about the resistance part but how was she sure that 9Samurais will appear(20years later) n then Kozuki Clan will have the revenge ???
Note: She didn't sent 9guys in future.
It means she saw 9guys (maybe SHs) taking down Orochi n Kaido. This type of seeing future hasn't shown by even Shirley as she only saw Luffy standing on destroyed FI but in Toki's case she is sure that Kozuki will have the revenge 20years later.


Nope he had no idea where he was.
https://**********/r/one_piece/920/5390/10?mobile=1

He later learnt that they are 20years in future
https://**********/r/one_piece/920/5390/12?mobile=1
You missed the page in between. Was that on purpose?

https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/112.png

You can see in 10 they land on the castle ruins on the mountain. 11 they're near the graves on the mountain by the ruins. 12 is a flashback to when they go into town upon arriving in the present.

As for the 9 that was the 9 red sheaths and the way they say it here
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/13.png
Sounds like those 5 are part of the 9 red sheaths which would leave 4 others who may have not been time jumped but are still alive.
 

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#13
You missed the page in between. Was that on purpose?
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/112.png

You can see in 10 they land on the castle ruins on the mountain. 11 they're near the graves on the mountain by the ruins. 12 is a flashback to when they go into town upon arriving in the present.
Nope u can see Kinemon saying if he can go to future he would take revenge of Oden and Open the border. Pg 10
Same page showed his expression where he was.
Toki never said she gonna throw them 20years in future. So technically he should not know where or what date he landed on Wano.
Pg11 kinemon telling Shs the story that they landed 20years in future. U can see at the same page he said he knew nothing about this Wano.
Pg12 he finally met resistance which told them about current timeline.



As for the 9 that was the 9 red sheaths and the way they say it here
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/13.png
Sounds like those 5 are part of the 9 red sheaths which would leave 4 others who may have not been time jumped but are still alive.
Problem is that she was sure that those 9gonna beat Orochi n Kaido. Now kinemon n others are not that strong. So basically they gonna act as a Catalyst to start some sort of Uprising which gonna result in downfall of Kaido/Orochi.
Now When is someone so much sure that this possible outcome gonna happen??? When he/she has seen it right.
That's my point. This type of future seeing hasn't been shown by Shirley(if I m not wrong). Which meant Toki was way too op yet did nothing to save her husband. That's why I said she might jump between times lines but can't change it.
 

chopstickchakra

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Nope u can see Kinemon saying if he can go to future he would take revenge of Oden and Open the border. Pg 10
Same page showed his expression where he was.
Toki never said she gonna throw them 20years in future. So technically he should not know where or what date he landed on Wano.
Pg11 kinemon telling Shs the story that they landed 20years in future. U can see at the same page he said he knew nothing about this Wano.
Pg12 he finally met resistance which told them about current timeline.




Problem is that she was sure that those 9gonna beat Orochi n Kaido. Now kinemon n others are not that strong. So basically they gonna act as a Catalyst to start some sort of Uprising which gonna result in downfall of Kaido/Orochi.
Now When is someone so much sure that this possible outcome gonna happen??? When he/she has seen it right.
That's my point. This type of future seeing hasn't been shown by Shirley(if I m not wrong). Which meant Toki was way too op yet did nothing to save her husband. That's why I said she might jump between times lines but can't change it.
Kin'emon definitely says 20 years before they ever get into the town.
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/09.png
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/10.png
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/112.png
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/12.png

Let's go over this, piece by piece.

Page 9; We see Lady Toki with Momo and his sister as well as Kin'emon, Raizou, Kanjuro and mystery guy inside the burning castle. For some reason Kiku isn't shown on this page but is on 8 and 10 while the one with the hat disappears on page 10 onward.

Page 10; Kin'emon says "If we could travel to the future we will beat Orochi and open Wano's borders." Immediately after he says this we see a twinkle in the sky and the group fall onto the ruins of Oden Castle 20 years in the future(i.e. Present time)

Page 11; They get up off the ruins and see the graves with their names on it. Kin'emon is then shown saying "The Wano in which we now stand is 20 years older than the one we once knew" zoom out to Kin'emon and group standing by graves over looking current Wano. We know he was saying it to his group based on the word choices. Cut back to Kin'emon telling his story to Luffy and co. Notice he says this within the flashback scene upon arriving in Wano of present, and before he tells Luffy they went into town. Kin'emon knew how many years they had traveled when they were all looking out at Wano from the ruins of Oden Castle.

Page 12; Kin'emon explains how the city has changed. Flashback to the people who were waiting meeting with Kin'emon and co. Guy who was waiting mentions they've been there 20 years.

So you can see that Kin'emon mentioned the time frame before he met with the group waiting for them according to his recounting of the events.


Page 10 is where it could all be hinged, if there's a translation where Kin'emon says something to the degree of "even if it takes us 20 years we'll avenge Oden..." then I can see how Kin'emon knew how many years they were sent. Otherwise it doesn't make sense that he said it on page 11.
 
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Skull Knight

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Kin'emon definitely says 20 years before they ever get into the town.
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/09.png
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/10.png
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/112.png
https://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/51/5390/12.png

Let's go over this, piece by piece.

Page 9; We see Lady Toki with Momo and his sister as well as Kin'emon, Raizou, Kanjuro and mystery guy inside the burning castle. For some reason Kiku isn't shown on this page but is on 8 and 10 while the one with the hat disappears on page 10 onward.

Page 10; Kin'emon says "If we could travel to the future we will beat Orochi and open Wano's borders." Immediately after he says this we see a twinkle in the sky and the group fall onto the ruins of Oden Castle 20 years in the future(i.e. Present time)
As u said kinemon wants to go to future n get revenge n Toki without saying anything send them. Itself shows he had no idea where she sent them.

Page 11; They get up off the ruins and see the graves with their names on it. Kin'emon is then shown saying "The Wano in which we now stand is 20 years older than the one we once knew" zoom out to Kin'emon and group standing by graves over looking current Wano. We know he was saying it to his group based on the word choices. Cut back to Kin'emon telling his story to Luffy and co. Notice he says this within the flashback scene upon arriving in Wano of present, and before he tells Luffy they went into town. Kin'emon knew how many years they had traveled when they were all looking out at Wano from the ruins of Oden Castle.
This page he telling the story to Shs that they jumped 20years into future.
Reason: 1)Last Page he was clueless where they were?
2) Even if they found some clue don't u think all of them will know they are in 20years in future as all of them stick together at that point of time. So no need to say it to them again. It was definitely for SHs.
Page 12; Kin'emon explains how the city has changed. Flashback to the people who were waiting meeting with Kin'emon and co. Guy who was waiting mentions they've been there 20 years.
After that they started traveling n he said he knew nothing about the modern Wano. The group that encounter them told them about there current timeline n Toki's wish.
So you can see that Kin'emon mentioned the time frame before he met with the group waiting for them according to his recounting of the events.


Page 10 is where it could all be hinged, if there's a translation where Kin'emon says something to the degree of "even if it takes us 20 years we'll avenge Oden..." then I can see how Kin'emon knew how many years they were sent. Otherwise it doesn't make sense that he said it on page 11.
Since Kinemon himself wasn't a time Traveller it makes no sense that he knew exact year they jumped in future even without meeting anyone in current timeline. Let's not forget Toki didn't utter a word.
 

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As u said kinemon wants to go to future n get revenge n Toki without saying anything send them. Itself shows he had no idea where she sent them.


This page he telling the story to Shs that they jumped 20years into future.
Reason: 1)Last Page he was clueless where they were?
2) Even if they found some clue don't u think all of them will know they are in 20years in future as all of them stick together at that point of time. So no need to say it to them again. It was definitely for SHs.

After that they started traveling n he said he knew nothing about the modern Wano. The group that encounter them told them about there current timeline n Toki's wish.

Since Kinemon himself wasn't a time Traveller it makes no sense that he knew exact year they jumped in future even without meeting anyone in current timeline. Let's not forget Toki didn't utter a word.
@Bold that's been my point the entire time it makes no sense that he knew the year from atop the castle ruins yet that's what those panels show us. He says "The Wano in which we now stand is 20 years older than the one we know" He was expositioning it for the reader and saying it in the moment. In Kin'emon's flashback he states they are 20 years into the future before ever leaving from the castle ruins. The rest of the group may also know but Kin'emon was the only one who acknowledged it.
 
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