Todays chapter confirms that Uchiha > Senju

[Wparker6804]

Today's chapter was Awesome! Sasuke getting pissed at the 2nd and asking some questions that prove to have some enlightening answers, shodia is hilarious and Oro playing the blame game....the 2nd outcast the Uchiha by making them the police force and blaming him for the position everyone is in now for creating E/T! Haha

W.I.T.W. is with your sig?

 

[Holy Cross]

No, they are =

 

[Amantius]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it only proved, with the right emotions an uchiha could be another madara. Saying uchiha>senji is just plain retarded. People are not deducting information correctly. Not all the uchiha were bad ass's, what kishi clearly was trying to establish is. "potential" Must i remind you, tobimaru and harashima were stronger that the uchiha's but feared another Madara?? Because they simply don't like dealing with one and yes Madara is powerful as ****.

 

[shishomaru 21]

here is my question to you sir. how could madara's be beyond Senju's power if he still lost to hishirama that wouldn't make sense so madaras hate didn't grow stronger beyond Senju's power

naw i think tobimaru knew that b4 madara died he optained the (rennigan) dont know if i spelled it right but.... madara grew strong AS hishirama. listening to hishirama he's kinda like naruto in the way the he would never kill his rival becus he needs someone at his level to push him farther, kinda like madara did with izuna, but tobimaru knew that if madara or sumone as powerful as madara could ever get a chance to get the upper hand, that he wouldnt hesitate to kill there rival... so he took precautions...

but here's my question, it was said that madara was as strong as hishirama, and the only other uchiha that was strong as madara was izuna that because they pushed each other, but wouldnt it make since that hishirama pushed his little brother too? think about it if anything happend to him tobimaru would have to take on madara and izuna... there hasnt been to much said about tobimaru and hishirama sparring together like the uchiha brothers but come on tobimaru wasnt hokage for nothing

 

[xxSasukEkUnxX]

It's confirmed now that Madara was stronger than Tobirama so Tobirama was scared.

Todays chapter confirms that their love growing stronger enough so they can go along with Senju and eventually the reflection of their love turns into a great power that is beyond Senju's love.
Their hatred of loosing their comrade giving them the power of EMS.

That's why Tobirama is happy that Uchiha are annihilated now. U_U

The exhaustion of battle for the uchiha's side is because their loved ones died in battle, and they kept suffering the MS.
The exhaustion of battle on the senju's side was that they were too tired from fighting uchiha's with MS.
Technically; uchiha's are stronger but Senju's life force makes them equal

 

[Gouryuuka]

Tobirama was fearful of another Madara to rise from the clan. Seeing the true strength of Madara was probably the only reason why he was so fearful.

 

[xxSAGExx]

tobirama confirms that uchiha have more power if they meet certian standards, meaning more potential

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He didn't say more power than them just more more that they had before. Obito already confirmed that the Senju clan was respected and feared as the strongest clan.

And exactly that loosing of their lover gaining them the next sharringan . Tobirama was scared of that. Because that power can equalize Hashi's power. That's why Tobiramai feared Madara. Because Hashi is the only threat for Uchiha.

Wrong, or are you forgetting Hashirama had the power of several Bijuus under his control? Also Tobirama using edo tensei on the Uchihas. Anyways what Tobirama feared was what Madara did, he was so consumed by hatred that he tooked his beloved brother's eyes in order to gain more power and this can happen again in the uchiha clan which can start an internal war within the clan. After getting the MS they start to go blind which is something none of them would want so they would kill their own kin to get bck their light. This would weaken the stability of the Village if that kind of battle took place.

Senju's power revolves around love that's where they draw their strength. The uchiha experience this at a higher level and so they gain immense power from it. As Missred actually stated any senju besides hashi and possibly tobi would be afraid of madara because he's the only one who's experienced the loss of love at the highest level, resulting in the mangekyo. If every uchiha was to awaken the same eyes that madara has then theres no way the senju would be able to survive. Especially considering that the uchiha were equal to the senju with just the basic 3 tomoe sharingan.

Nope, It was said Madara and his brother awakened their MS at the same time and since then they began to lose their light. The more they used it the more blind they would get and suffer from the pain the MS cause. This would drive them to go after their kinsmen's MS in order to save their sight but not everyone would just give up their eyes so the clan wold be filled with internal conflicts and fall apart from the mistrust and fights. Madara loved his brother so much yet he took his eyes to save his own sight to get more power. It he never used MS then he would still have his sight and his brother would still have his eye (in that time line) but the hatred they got fuel them for power. Remember they lived in a time of constant war so they would see their clansmate die and this is what would start their hate which grew as did their desire for more power. (Obito and Sasuke are examples of how they most likely were back them).

With this you basically agreed with all I have keep saying all this time. That this union was a failure.
If you can't respect your ally by giving them a chance to be in the policy you're making the things even harder.
Tobirama failed.

Respect is earn tho, Tobirama seen how they can go wild so he's not going to just give them equal power in the village. They have to show that they can handle themselves and them Tobirama may have given them a bigger role. Also the fact that Madara attaked the village didn't help them either, it further reminded Tobirama what he wants to prevent. Why would Tobirama give the Uchiha authority in the village when he first hand saw how they can run wild from losing someone? First they awaken their sharingans, then want revenge on the one who took their loved one but if they lack power then their desire for more power would corrupt them and that hatred would grow. If they get the MS then they will go after a clansmen eyes.

No you are misunderstanding. EVERY mangekyo sharingan ability we've seen is extremely OP. Im talking about moves that hashi would even have a hard time countering (tsukuyomi, ama, kamui, and KA) and this is only a fraction of the uchiha clan and the only ones we know with MS abilities thus far. Now imagine a whole clan dedicated to moves like that or moves we havent even seen (obito with both of his eyes would be practically invincible), the senju would not be able to go toe to toe with monsters like those.

The issue regarding why tobirama isolated the clan is different than what you think. It was because he didnt want another madara running wild because it would be a detriment to the village. This means that any uchiha has the power or the potential to reach madara's level, and if thats the case then the senju clan would need to be made up of all hashi's to even have a chance at putting up a fight.

As long as you remember that the MS has side effects which are going blind and suffering pain which leaves openings for attacks. Even if there were a few more Uchihas who awakened their MS, the hatred they have would push them for more power and to save their eyes from losing it's light. They would attack each other to get the others MS to save their eyes. This would start an internal conflict and many Uchihas would flee so they don't become victims of such an event. Madara probably would kill them off for show a sign of weakness too. If the Uchihas don't fight together because the lack of trust then the Senjus who knows over 1000 jutsus would win.

Hashirama did have several Bijuus under his control so he could have wiped out the Uchiha clan but he believed in please. Also there's the fact that the nine tails is always sealed in a Uzumaki which is related to the Senjus. Being able to hold Kurama can't be the only reason, must be a fail safe in case the Uchihas did go wild.

 

[bhermoth12]

i think tobirama said something about losing their loved ones...and then they get messed up in the head and turn their power to evil...well something like that

 

[Vegeta]

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Most people don't know that Vegeta is a Senju fanboy

 

[naruto 2000]

thats true

 

[Itachi Uchiha 77]

It's confirmed now that Madara was stronger than Tobirama so Tobirama was scared.

Todays chapter confirms that their love growing stronger enough so they can go along with Senju and eventually the reflection of their love turns into a great power that is beyond Senju's love.
Their hatred of loosing their comrade giving them the power of EMS.

That's why Tobirama is happy that Uchiha are annihilated now. U_U

but he wasnt stronger than hashirama...and im an Uchiha fanboy too but i dont think theyre better than senju..theyre kinda tied...theyre rival clans

 

[~Rerrando~]

Hashirama's confidence is outstanding. But I wanna see Tobirmama action, in the next few chapters. The guy who invented edo-tensei and one of the best Space–Time Ninjutsu users next to Obito and Minato. He must have some sort of summoning animal on him or he got some few tricks up his sleeves.

Tobirama doesn't need a summon. He was the greatest water jutsu user ever and he has Infinite Darkness, which would be hard to beat.

 

[~Rerrando~]

Hashirama's confidence is outstanding. But I wanna see Tobirmama action, in the next few chapters. The guy who invented edo-tensei and one of the best Space–Time Ninjutsu users next to Obito and Minato. He must have some sort of summoning animal on him or he got some few tricks up his sleeves.

There isn't any senju alive anymore so that means Uchiha is stronger. If Tsunade is proven to be alive then there will only be one left. While the Uchiha have two.



The Uchiha are absolutely stronger in ability. Hashirama and Tobirama are the only Senju that has been shown to be a possible match for the six strongest Uchiha. While everyone in the Uchiha can get MS and many of them used Izanagi as stated by Itachi.

Uchiha MS Abilities:

• Tsukuyomi - Instant KO for anyone who is not Uchiha and has sharingan
• Susanoo - Extreme defense and great offense
• Kotoamatsukami - Most powerful genjutsu that is capable of controlling people
• Izanagi - Turn death into an illusion
• Izanami - Decide Fate
• Amaterasu - Basically super fire
• Kamui - Teleport and become intangible

With more Uchiha having MS that means there could be more abilities and a more powerful clan. Hashirama and Tobirama are a rarity in the Senju from what has been shown.

Tsukuyomi-If Kakashi can get out of Tsukuyomi than it is not as powerful as we've believed it to be
Susano'o-the abilities of Susano'o have differed with each Uchiha that have used it so the capabilities vary
Kotoamatsuki-only Shisui had this
Izanagi-makes reality what you want it to be (cost you an eye)
Inzanami-ultimate puts your opponent in a looping reality (negates izanagi)
Amaterasu-the only Uchiha shown to use this was Itachi (sasuke only has it because he has Itachi's eyes)
Kamui-only Obito and Kakashi have this

the abilities of the Uchiha aren't that great, when you forget to mention Madara's Perfect Susano'o and Itachi's genjutsu. And, even then thats only two Uchiha.

 

[muutobirama3rdraikagemizu]

As an overall clan yeah I agree. But no individual Uchiha is at hashi's level besides Madara.

sasuke , is close
itachi , is close
obito with paths is there
shishui, is there

 

[SakiBombJutsu]

It most certainly does not. If that was the case i believe that the leaf's first Hokage would have been named Madara, not Hashirama. In fact the only thing that chapter 619 confirms is that the Uchiha's are somewhat mentally unstable.

 

[Omnipotent]

To everyone who thinks Senju = Uchiha or Senju < Uchiha, the manga disagrees:

Spoiler

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And to those who think EMS Madara was equal to Hashirama, you're also wrong:

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[juvet]

i think we are not understanding something here. love doesnt turn to hate in its nature rather kishi is telling that someone out of love could be forced into the dark like the sasuke, madara by some surrounding factors. this hate drives them to dig ever deep into the well of power they possess by all cost as such the more the fall in the dark pit the stronger the become. senju has sense of forgiveness which is an essence of of love. to forgive those who hurt them the most. so that is complete love. though uchiha might love more, they are not wise enough to see love isnt complete without forgiveness in it.

 

[General PSX360]

I agree

 

[Meowazziel]

It's confirmed now that Madara was stronger than Tobirama so Tobirama was scared.

Todays chapter confirms that their love growing stronger enough so they can go along with Senju and eventually the reflection of their love turns into a great power that is beyond Senju's love.
Their hatred of loosing their comrade giving them the power of EMS.

That's why Tobirama is happy that Uchiha are annihilated now. U_U

Some Uchiha need to die for some to have the possiblity to get an increase in powers. You increase in power on one hand but you decreate on the other.

Tobirama was cautious imo, not scared.

 

[SubZero89]

Fact of the matter is that kishi has no use for any senju in the manga, but he seems to have many uchiha walking around but no senju..? why would that be? because they're irrelevant. Im not asspulling anything.............Any uchiha to experience the pain of losing a loved one will awaken MS, it was madara who coined the EMS by accepting his brothers eyes. All this means is that madara would be the only uchiha to have an undying MS at the time. but this doesnt matter because all MS abilities are extremely OP 1 shot jutsus so it would be highly unlikely for them to go blind during battle anyways. Point being, if most uchiha awakened MS then the clan would be unstoppable, even if they're still weaker than madara

Irrelevant =/= weak. Not any Uchiha, many have tried to awaken the MS this way but they failed in fact how many Uchiha have had their dear ones die? But not all of them awakened MS, just awakening Sharingan is considered a rarity. They would go blind withing 2-3 battles, no matter how strong their jutsu would be they still where only at best equal to Senju. Except the fact that Senju would stop them, after all these years of the manga you still fail to understand the point of it... From Rikudo to his sons, Senju and Uchiha to Naruto and Sasuke. Equal forces on opposites sides, yin and yang.