I wish you guys stop blaming tobirama for madara's lunacy. Yeah tobirama played a big role in madaras defect from the village but thats not why madara left, Madara left because his own clan no longer put him first & no loner followed his idiocy! Madara knowing this, he forseen them appointing tobirama as second hokage. He knew of tobirama's attitude towards the uchiha and what would happen when he became hokage. So don't blame tobirama for madaras defect, blame the uchiha for abandoning him. . .
Tobirama
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
- Status
~Madara Uchiha~
Active member
Bashing.
Stopped reading right about there.
I made a proper analysis of this character
You must be registered for see links
~Madara Uchiha~
Active member
Madara knew full well about tobirama's hatred towards he uchiha, He wasn't expecting his own clan to exile him. When madara found out the uchiha no longer supported him and that tobirama would most likely become second hokage he gave up on them.
~Madara Uchiha~
Active member
Yes.. He knew his clan would be persecuted and he didnt want to stay and watch... He had no control over the situation no matter how he looked at it.. Madara trying his hardest to except Hashirama's plan.. He was turning good.. Tobirama only pushed him farther and farther to the edge.. When he heard Tobirama talking with Hashirama in his office that was the final straw... He had given up.
Yeah madara knew all along what was happening, thats why he was planning to overthrow the senju. To his dismay the uchiha exiled him for this. Knowing this he was left with one option,to exclude himself and rebel.
Sharingan no Kakashi
Member
xxxNaruto Sage Modexxx
Member
Tobirama Senju
Tobirama Senju (千手扉間, Senju Tobirama) was the Second Hokage (二代目火影, Nidaime Hokage; Literally meaning "Second Fire Shadow") of Konohagakure. He hails from the Senju clan, who, along with the Uchiha clan, founded the first shinobi village: Konoha. During his reign, Tobirama was accredited as the Hokage that developed the village's organisational system as well as some of its infrastructure
Tobirama was a member of the Senju clan and along with his older brother Hashirama, both they, and their younger brothers Kawarama, and Itama were the sons of Butsuma Senju. As a child, Tobirama grew up in the Era of the Warring States where he became a shinobi of his clan. One day, he attended the burial of Kawarama, and several other of his clansmen alongside his father and siblings. Hashirama later ended up in an altercation with his father about the senseless killing of innocent children. This led to his father almost striking him again, but Tobirama intervened. Later, as the three siblings met up, they spoke of peace for the future and Tobirama stated his opinion about ending the conflict by giving the shinobi a code of conduct to stop the endless killing. He later admonished Itama for his way of thinking which sounded a great deal like the way the adults thought. Some time later, Itama was killed on the battlefield.[2] Some time after this, Tobirama was tasked by his father to find out where Hashirama was disappearing to. When Hashirama returned from one of these extended leaves of absence, Tobirama confronted him, informing him that their father requested to speak with him. When Hashirama questioned how Butsuma knew that he was meeting with Madara,
Tobirama pointed out that he had tracked him down using his sensory abilities, which where far superior to that of Hashirama. He would later accompany his father to where Hashirama met up with Madara; here they were confronted by Tajima and Izuna Uchiha, the latter of whom Tobirama acknowledged by name.
As Tobirama and Izuna clashed, unbeknownst to Tobirama, Tajima prepared to land a would-be fatal attack on him, which was deflected by Hashirama who returned to the battlefield. Shocked by this, the two sides reached an impasse, and Tobirama listened on as Madara turned down Hashirama's offer to broker peace between the two. As time went by and the battles between the two clans continued, on one of these occasions, Tobirama was able to mortally wound Izuna, forcing Madara to retreat from the battlefield with his wounded brother. The next time the Senju brothers encountered Madara again, he informed them that Izuna had succumbed to his injuries and had left him his eyes to continue protecting the clan. Despite revealing that he had acquired the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan, Madara was still defeated. As Tobirama was about to deliver the final blow, he was stopped by his brother who still wanted to seek peace. However, the jaded Uchiha noted that the price Hashirama had to pay for the Uchiha to regain his trust was either that Hashirama had to kill himself, or his brother.[4]
Decrying Madara as a crazed person, Tobirama questioned whether or not his brother intended to kill him. However, Tobirama is shocked when Hashirama — fully intent on going through with this — prepared to kill himself but not before telling everyone present to swear that the feud between Senju and Uchiha would end. Though the act was stopped by Madara, and Tobirama later watched on as the two clans agreed to the peace treaty and formed the village, Tobirama never became any less wary of Madara for his actions, and the other Uchiha by extension. After retrieving his brother from what would become the Hokage Monument and hearing of the position of Hokage, Tobirama noted that Hashirama could not arbitrarily make unilateral decisions like their father had, and that things had to be discussed and agreements reached through democracy. However, during their conversation where the topic of the impending threat of the Uchiha was broached by Tobirama, Hashirama noted that he felt as though they were being watched, but Tobirama noted that as he was not moulding chakra at the moment, he had not sensed anything.[5]
Tobirama was present when Hashirama struck a peace treaty with the Uchiha and its then-leader Madara Uchiha and with Konohagakure's creation following soon after.[6] When Hashirama, who was appointed the First Hokage, died, Tobirama was appointed as the Second Hokage.[7] During his reign he was primarily responsible for establishing Konoha's organisational system. He established various organisations such as the Academy, the ANBU, the Chūnin Exams and the Konoha Military Police Force,[1] the latter of which he appeared to create as a sign of trust towards the Uchiha who made up the majority of that organisation. The Uchiha would come to believe that this was just an elaborate way to ostracise them from the village, and its government.[8]
At some point during his era, he and the Second Raikage met to form a formal alliance between Kumogakure and Konohagakure; however, Kinkaku and Ginkaku, Kumo's Gold and Silver Brothers, attempted a coup d’etat against the Second Raikage and left Tobirama near death during the fiasco.[9]
He also trained a three-man team of his own, which consisted of Hiruzen Sarutobi, Homura Mitokado, and Koharu Utatane.[10] On one mission during the First Shinobi World War, on which Team Tobirama performed with Danzō Shimura, Kagami Uchiha and Torifu Akimichi, they found themselves surrounded by twenty elite Kumo ninja known as the Kinkaku Force. Tobirama then realised that the only way any of them could escape alive was for one of them to be a decoy and sacrifice themselves; therefore having faith that he had trained his students well, he chose to sacrifice himself after he selected his prized student Hiruzen for the position of Third Hokage. Homura and Koharu would later become Hiruzen's advisers. After giving the title of Hokage to Hiruzen, Tobirama went off to fight the enemies where he died a noble death.[11]
Even in his childhood, Tobirama was a very calm, composed, pragmatic and stoic individual. Like his brother, he felt a great deal of loyalty to the village, and placed its well-being above all else. Tobirama was also described as being strong-spirited, and passionate.[1]
More straight-laced than his exuberant brother, Tobirama was a realist who took things and people for what and who they were. This was displayed during the First Shinobi World War when he and his small battalion were surrounded by the Kinkaku Squad, Tobirama realised the only way out for his subordinates, and acted accordingly.[11] This was also displayed in his attitude towards the Uchiha whom he believed were almost all intrinsically cursed, based on his knowledge of them, as well as his own personal interactions with them.[12] This was also displayed in his youth where he came to the logical conclusion that if the adults wanted to stop the constant wars, all they had to do was create laws and abide by them no matter what.[13] Between him and his brother, Tobirama had the more assertive personality, easily being able to talk down his older brother who would sulk and obey his commands.[14] Tobirama also cares greatly for the village and, being pragmatic by nature, Tobirama valued peace, and balance and tried in his own way to help the Uchiha from falling prey to their curse by placing them in charge of the Konoha Military Police Force, giving them a duty to focus their emotions into, so that history would not repeat itself and create another person like Madara Uchiha.[15]
Tobirama also has the habit of folding his arms — a trait he's had since his youth.
Tobirama was a tall, fair-skinned man with white, shaggy hair, dark-coloured eyes — depicted as red in the anime — and three red markings on his face — two under his eyes and one on his chin. In most cases, he wore the wartime attire of kin during his lifetime: armour emblazoned with the Senju symbol worn over a simple black suit, with a distinctive fur collar. This armour was constructed from numerous metal plates, formed into multiple protective guards along his body, in particular: chest, waist, shoulders and upper arms. This clothing was accompanied by sandals and a happuri engraved with the Konoha emblem, in the place of the more traditional forehead protector. As a child, his forehead protector bore the Senju clan's emblem.[16] Beneath his shoulder armour he wore two bands on each arm.
Outside of this outfit, Tobirama wore a simple, short-sleeved, blue shirt kimono with mesh armour underneath and held closed by a pale yellow sash, as well as blue pants and a bracelet of sorts on his left hand. In his youth, he wore a pair of pin-striped pants and shirt which left his arms exposed. He also did not have the markings on his face.[17]
As the Second Hokage, Tobirama was undoubtedly an immensely powerful shinobi and was hailed as one of the most powerful shinobi of his era.[18] During his lifetime, Tobirama created the Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation technique;[19] however, some time after its creation he labelled it as a kinjutsu.[20] Though he did gain renown with this technique that those who were reincarnated with the technique immediately thought it was Tobirama's doing.[21][22] According to Minato Namikaze, Tobirama was also able to use Space–Time Ninjutsu.[23] Tobirama has displayed a high amount of skill in the area of taijutsu, as well as good teamwork with his elder brother, Hashirama Senju. In the anime, it was shown that he was also a powerful genjutsu user, able to shroud the area in darkness that even the Third Hokage couldn't dispel.[24]
Due to his Senju heritage, Tobirama inherited an extraordinary life force, as well as physical energy. Likewise, his chakra was also shown to be remarkably strong as he was able to crack a wall, by simply placing his hand on it and releasing his chakra through it.[25] He was also able to resist the control of Orochimaru's Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation, until the latter used his brother's DNA to strengthen the control.[26]
Kenjutsu Edit
Tobirama was a practitioner of kenjutsu since childhood, at one point, he was seen wielding a sword against Madara's younger brother, Izuna Uchiha. Tobirama was also able to use the Flying Thunder God Slash technique to mortally wound Izuna Uchiha on the battlefield, taking the Mangekyō Sharingan-wielding Uchiha by surprise.[27] In the anime, it was said that he wielded the Sword of the Thunder God, a blade with electrical abilities, and was said to have mastered its use despite the blade's lethal nature.[28]
Aside from his battle prowess, Tobirama was also a very gifted sensor ninja since childhood. By simply touching the ground with his index finger, he could detect the presence and number of enemy shinobi.[29] He was also able to detect Madara Uchiha's chakra on the battlefield some ways off.[30] His sensory skills were such, that he was also able to determine how Orochimaru's new body was made almost entirely from Hashirama's cells.[31] He also used this ability along with tracking skills in order to follow a target undetected.
Tobirama was primarily known for his legendary mastery of Water Release. He could perform powerful water-style techniques in areas that lacked bodies of water by creating his own water out of thin air or spewing it from his mouth, and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal. He could further manipulate his water by isolating areas within it and receding it at will.[33] This among other reasons is why he is revered as the greatest known Water Release manipulator in the series.[34]
In the anime, it is also shown that he can use the Water Release: Water Colliding Wave to attack and cover a large area with water. In areas with water, he can move underwater and stay for a considerable amount of time. Underwater, he can use jets of water to restrain his target and pull it underwater in order to drown it. He could also launch powerful missiles of water which can even pierce rocks.[35
Tobirama Senju (千手扉間, Senju Tobirama) was the Second Hokage (二代目火影, Nidaime Hokage; Literally meaning "Second Fire Shadow") of Konohagakure. He hails from the Senju clan, who, along with the Uchiha clan, founded the first shinobi village: Konoha. During his reign, Tobirama was accredited as the Hokage that developed the village's organisational system as well as some of its infrastructure
Tobirama was a member of the Senju clan and along with his older brother Hashirama, both they, and their younger brothers Kawarama, and Itama were the sons of Butsuma Senju. As a child, Tobirama grew up in the Era of the Warring States where he became a shinobi of his clan. One day, he attended the burial of Kawarama, and several other of his clansmen alongside his father and siblings. Hashirama later ended up in an altercation with his father about the senseless killing of innocent children. This led to his father almost striking him again, but Tobirama intervened. Later, as the three siblings met up, they spoke of peace for the future and Tobirama stated his opinion about ending the conflict by giving the shinobi a code of conduct to stop the endless killing. He later admonished Itama for his way of thinking which sounded a great deal like the way the adults thought. Some time later, Itama was killed on the battlefield.[2] Some time after this, Tobirama was tasked by his father to find out where Hashirama was disappearing to. When Hashirama returned from one of these extended leaves of absence, Tobirama confronted him, informing him that their father requested to speak with him. When Hashirama questioned how Butsuma knew that he was meeting with Madara,
Tobirama pointed out that he had tracked him down using his sensory abilities, which where far superior to that of Hashirama. He would later accompany his father to where Hashirama met up with Madara; here they were confronted by Tajima and Izuna Uchiha, the latter of whom Tobirama acknowledged by name.
As Tobirama and Izuna clashed, unbeknownst to Tobirama, Tajima prepared to land a would-be fatal attack on him, which was deflected by Hashirama who returned to the battlefield. Shocked by this, the two sides reached an impasse, and Tobirama listened on as Madara turned down Hashirama's offer to broker peace between the two. As time went by and the battles between the two clans continued, on one of these occasions, Tobirama was able to mortally wound Izuna, forcing Madara to retreat from the battlefield with his wounded brother. The next time the Senju brothers encountered Madara again, he informed them that Izuna had succumbed to his injuries and had left him his eyes to continue protecting the clan. Despite revealing that he had acquired the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan, Madara was still defeated. As Tobirama was about to deliver the final blow, he was stopped by his brother who still wanted to seek peace. However, the jaded Uchiha noted that the price Hashirama had to pay for the Uchiha to regain his trust was either that Hashirama had to kill himself, or his brother.[4]
Decrying Madara as a crazed person, Tobirama questioned whether or not his brother intended to kill him. However, Tobirama is shocked when Hashirama — fully intent on going through with this — prepared to kill himself but not before telling everyone present to swear that the feud between Senju and Uchiha would end. Though the act was stopped by Madara, and Tobirama later watched on as the two clans agreed to the peace treaty and formed the village, Tobirama never became any less wary of Madara for his actions, and the other Uchiha by extension. After retrieving his brother from what would become the Hokage Monument and hearing of the position of Hokage, Tobirama noted that Hashirama could not arbitrarily make unilateral decisions like their father had, and that things had to be discussed and agreements reached through democracy. However, during their conversation where the topic of the impending threat of the Uchiha was broached by Tobirama, Hashirama noted that he felt as though they were being watched, but Tobirama noted that as he was not moulding chakra at the moment, he had not sensed anything.[5]
Tobirama was present when Hashirama struck a peace treaty with the Uchiha and its then-leader Madara Uchiha and with Konohagakure's creation following soon after.[6] When Hashirama, who was appointed the First Hokage, died, Tobirama was appointed as the Second Hokage.[7] During his reign he was primarily responsible for establishing Konoha's organisational system. He established various organisations such as the Academy, the ANBU, the Chūnin Exams and the Konoha Military Police Force,[1] the latter of which he appeared to create as a sign of trust towards the Uchiha who made up the majority of that organisation. The Uchiha would come to believe that this was just an elaborate way to ostracise them from the village, and its government.[8]
At some point during his era, he and the Second Raikage met to form a formal alliance between Kumogakure and Konohagakure; however, Kinkaku and Ginkaku, Kumo's Gold and Silver Brothers, attempted a coup d’etat against the Second Raikage and left Tobirama near death during the fiasco.[9]
He also trained a three-man team of his own, which consisted of Hiruzen Sarutobi, Homura Mitokado, and Koharu Utatane.[10] On one mission during the First Shinobi World War, on which Team Tobirama performed with Danzō Shimura, Kagami Uchiha and Torifu Akimichi, they found themselves surrounded by twenty elite Kumo ninja known as the Kinkaku Force. Tobirama then realised that the only way any of them could escape alive was for one of them to be a decoy and sacrifice themselves; therefore having faith that he had trained his students well, he chose to sacrifice himself after he selected his prized student Hiruzen for the position of Third Hokage. Homura and Koharu would later become Hiruzen's advisers. After giving the title of Hokage to Hiruzen, Tobirama went off to fight the enemies where he died a noble death.[11]
Even in his childhood, Tobirama was a very calm, composed, pragmatic and stoic individual. Like his brother, he felt a great deal of loyalty to the village, and placed its well-being above all else. Tobirama was also described as being strong-spirited, and passionate.[1]
More straight-laced than his exuberant brother, Tobirama was a realist who took things and people for what and who they were. This was displayed during the First Shinobi World War when he and his small battalion were surrounded by the Kinkaku Squad, Tobirama realised the only way out for his subordinates, and acted accordingly.[11] This was also displayed in his attitude towards the Uchiha whom he believed were almost all intrinsically cursed, based on his knowledge of them, as well as his own personal interactions with them.[12] This was also displayed in his youth where he came to the logical conclusion that if the adults wanted to stop the constant wars, all they had to do was create laws and abide by them no matter what.[13] Between him and his brother, Tobirama had the more assertive personality, easily being able to talk down his older brother who would sulk and obey his commands.[14] Tobirama also cares greatly for the village and, being pragmatic by nature, Tobirama valued peace, and balance and tried in his own way to help the Uchiha from falling prey to their curse by placing them in charge of the Konoha Military Police Force, giving them a duty to focus their emotions into, so that history would not repeat itself and create another person like Madara Uchiha.[15]
Tobirama also has the habit of folding his arms — a trait he's had since his youth.
Tobirama was a tall, fair-skinned man with white, shaggy hair, dark-coloured eyes — depicted as red in the anime — and three red markings on his face — two under his eyes and one on his chin. In most cases, he wore the wartime attire of kin during his lifetime: armour emblazoned with the Senju symbol worn over a simple black suit, with a distinctive fur collar. This armour was constructed from numerous metal plates, formed into multiple protective guards along his body, in particular: chest, waist, shoulders and upper arms. This clothing was accompanied by sandals and a happuri engraved with the Konoha emblem, in the place of the more traditional forehead protector. As a child, his forehead protector bore the Senju clan's emblem.[16] Beneath his shoulder armour he wore two bands on each arm.
Outside of this outfit, Tobirama wore a simple, short-sleeved, blue shirt kimono with mesh armour underneath and held closed by a pale yellow sash, as well as blue pants and a bracelet of sorts on his left hand. In his youth, he wore a pair of pin-striped pants and shirt which left his arms exposed. He also did not have the markings on his face.[17]
As the Second Hokage, Tobirama was undoubtedly an immensely powerful shinobi and was hailed as one of the most powerful shinobi of his era.[18] During his lifetime, Tobirama created the Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation technique;[19] however, some time after its creation he labelled it as a kinjutsu.[20] Though he did gain renown with this technique that those who were reincarnated with the technique immediately thought it was Tobirama's doing.[21][22] According to Minato Namikaze, Tobirama was also able to use Space–Time Ninjutsu.[23] Tobirama has displayed a high amount of skill in the area of taijutsu, as well as good teamwork with his elder brother, Hashirama Senju. In the anime, it was shown that he was also a powerful genjutsu user, able to shroud the area in darkness that even the Third Hokage couldn't dispel.[24]
Due to his Senju heritage, Tobirama inherited an extraordinary life force, as well as physical energy. Likewise, his chakra was also shown to be remarkably strong as he was able to crack a wall, by simply placing his hand on it and releasing his chakra through it.[25] He was also able to resist the control of Orochimaru's Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation, until the latter used his brother's DNA to strengthen the control.[26]
Kenjutsu Edit
Tobirama was a practitioner of kenjutsu since childhood, at one point, he was seen wielding a sword against Madara's younger brother, Izuna Uchiha. Tobirama was also able to use the Flying Thunder God Slash technique to mortally wound Izuna Uchiha on the battlefield, taking the Mangekyō Sharingan-wielding Uchiha by surprise.[27] In the anime, it was said that he wielded the Sword of the Thunder God, a blade with electrical abilities, and was said to have mastered its use despite the blade's lethal nature.[28]
Aside from his battle prowess, Tobirama was also a very gifted sensor ninja since childhood. By simply touching the ground with his index finger, he could detect the presence and number of enemy shinobi.[29] He was also able to detect Madara Uchiha's chakra on the battlefield some ways off.[30] His sensory skills were such, that he was also able to determine how Orochimaru's new body was made almost entirely from Hashirama's cells.[31] He also used this ability along with tracking skills in order to follow a target undetected.
Tobirama was primarily known for his legendary mastery of Water Release. He could perform powerful water-style techniques in areas that lacked bodies of water by creating his own water out of thin air or spewing it from his mouth, and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal. He could further manipulate his water by isolating areas within it and receding it at will.[33] This among other reasons is why he is revered as the greatest known Water Release manipulator in the series.[34]
In the anime, it is also shown that he can use the Water Release: Water Colliding Wave to attack and cover a large area with water. In areas with water, he can move underwater and stay for a considerable amount of time. Underwater, he can use jets of water to restrain his target and pull it underwater in order to drown it. He could also launch powerful missiles of water which can even pierce rocks.[35
Handsome Jack
Active member
Awards
Madara did what he did because of Tobirama
Tobirama's conversation with Hashirama there that Madara spied in on was a perfect example of a self-fulfilling prophecy which is a prediction that directly or indirectly causes itself to become true. Anoher way to define a self fulfilling prophecy is as a positive or negative prophecy, strongly held belief, or delusion - declared as truth when it is actually false - may sufficiently influence people so that their reactions ultimately fulfill the once-false prophecy
Hashirama represents the postive that believed in the righteousness of Madara with all his heart and communicated it with Madara and it greatly influenced Madara to fulfill it. Tobirama represents the negative who saw the worst of the Uchiha and the results of his belief and power/influence in the village helped bring it about.
Tobirama never really trusted the Uchiha. Even after Hashirama brokeraged peace Tobirama was still looking for reason to distrust the Uchiha by entertaining RUMORS that their sharingan drew power solely from the hatred in their hearts and wanted to label the Uchiha as an unkown variable....Madara overheard this
Even Hashirama had to shut that conversation down and refused to entertain any thoughts or talk that would lead or plant the seeds of division and mistrust.
Had more people been like Hashirama, Madara wouldn't have had anything to worry about. he knew Hashirama and trusted in him. But Tobirama was another story, and Madara knew Tobirama would be the one who would become the next hokage cause he was a realist and Tobirama would have meant end of the Uchiha
Tobirama's conversation with Hashirama there that Madara spied in on was a perfect example of a self-fulfilling prophecy which is a prediction that directly or indirectly causes itself to become true. Anoher way to define a self fulfilling prophecy is as a positive or negative prophecy, strongly held belief, or delusion - declared as truth when it is actually false - may sufficiently influence people so that their reactions ultimately fulfill the once-false prophecy
Hashirama represents the postive that believed in the righteousness of Madara with all his heart and communicated it with Madara and it greatly influenced Madara to fulfill it. Tobirama represents the negative who saw the worst of the Uchiha and the results of his belief and power/influence in the village helped bring it about.
Tobirama never really trusted the Uchiha. Even after Hashirama brokeraged peace Tobirama was still looking for reason to distrust the Uchiha by entertaining RUMORS that their sharingan drew power solely from the hatred in their hearts and wanted to label the Uchiha as an unkown variable....Madara overheard this
Even Hashirama had to shut that conversation down and refused to entertain any thoughts or talk that would lead or plant the seeds of division and mistrust.
Had more people been like Hashirama, Madara wouldn't have had anything to worry about. he knew Hashirama and trusted in him. But Tobirama was another story, and Madara knew Tobirama would be the one who would become the next hokage cause he was a realist and Tobirama would have meant end of the Uchiha
- Status