Tobi/ObitoTheories: What, why and how and then some

Chose your group:

  • I knew it was Obito/ I win you lose/ apologise now

    Votes: 102 24.8%
  • It is NOT over yet

    Votes: 172 41.7%
  • It is only part Obito. (Both of us were right)

    Votes: 97 23.5%
  • I am done. Just lurking.

    Votes: 41 10.0%

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Rasnall

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Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

"Obito was 14 during the Konoha attack"
I'm yet to see any true evidence about him being 14 during the Konoha attack, and I really don't see where the hell people pulled this crap out of. Anti-Obito theorists just made this up to have the whole timeline plot hole, so I don't see it as a valid argument..
We know he was a child still as we see Kakashi & Guy during the attack and they are still teens. So it is a valid arguement. But what needs to asks is how can the this "tobi" us Obito's MS?


"Obito could not have fought Minato with his combat experience"
Obito did not defeat Minato, he got his ass kicked hard. He didn't even manage to land a blow on Minato. So don't talk as if they were on the same levels..
Valid point. Which would strengthen that it was Obito as he was inexperienced. But how did he learn the fighting style he did use?


"Obito could not have summoned the Kyuubi at his age"
Again, there's no evidence about him being 14, but let's assume your nonsense is true and he was 14, so what? Naruto has been cheating his way out of fights with the Kyuubi ever since he was 13. And at 16 he's mastered it to a whole different level than Obito could ever have. When you're a Uchiha and know the right jutsu to do it, what's stopping you from doing so?.
First point answers this. He would have been a teen, but we see that "tobi" was most certainly merged with Zetsu as we see the white goo.


"Obito could not have manipulated the Mizukage"
We have very, very little information about this, and everyone's been jumping into the conclusion that the Mizukage was under a genjutsu. But last I checked the only person in the entire shinobi world capable of manipulating people to such an extent is Uchiha Shisui, and his eyes ended up in Itachi and Danzo's possession, not Obito's. What if Obito simply had him blackmailed? We don't know anything about this so this shouldn't even be an argument for any side..
Your point here is valid. So little is known at this time we can not make an accurate assesment.


"Obito could not have given Rinnegan to Nagato"
It wasn't Obito who gave him Rinnegan, it was Madara himself before he died..
Same as above, there is to little evidence atm to make an accurate assesment. Tobi and Madara had knowledge of Nagato having the Rinnegan as they both mention it. Maybe a duo?

"Obito could not have helped Yahiko start the Akatsuki"
People think Tobi started the Akatsuki with Yahiko because they believe he's Madara's secret assistant. Well sorry to burst your bubble but Madara's almost certainly been referring to Zetsu as his assistant all this time. We know Madara got his hands on Hashirama DNA, and it's easy to assume he just somehow got Zetsu made out of it. Zetsu got entrusted the mission of recruiting members and finding someone like Obito to take over later on..
Your point makes sense. Madara would be in a better position to start Akatsuki.

"Obito would not have turned evil"
Because "turning" evil isn't a part of these series, I mean Sasuke, Nagato, Konan, and a few others didn't just decide to have their justice done against Konoha. Unless you watch this through Kishimoto's eyes where Naruto is the ultimate form of justice, there's no good and evil in these series, Konohagakure are also jerks who've been abusing of plot no jutsu since the dawn of time to dictate their rules over others, including a clan of their own, the Uchiha. There's plenty of reasons to "turn evil"..
I don't know who would argue this point? Can't turn evil?! U_U


"Obito was dead"
Well clearly he's not so dead given he's walking around right now. Orochimaru got killed and then sealed for eternity in a sword that can never be recovered again (due to Itachi being dead), yet he just walked back into the series as if it were is daily routine. So why are you surprised that Obito somehow survived that boulder? .
Obito's body was never found. So his death could not be confirmed, only assumed. Your point about Oro...to true U_U

"Obito was unskilled"
So was Naruto and how he's completely overpowered..
Who says these things?! lol you need new friends.

EDIT: Here's some more

Obito could not know about Hashirama and Madara
Why the hell not? Everyone who's curious enough does. Besides, he just got all he needed to know from Zetsu. Everything Madara knew, Zetsu knows. Everything Zetsu knows, Obito knows. It's that simple.
Again who says these things?! I want names! lol

My theory still stands. Madara and Zetsu find obito and using info from th reseach of Oro and Danzo have him merged with Hashirama DNA and zetsu to re-build his body. Thats why his is a man when he fights minato. But it still has a few holes.
 

alexu9696

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Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Well for the first thing remember that Tobi had 2 personalities !

- one that was goofy ( when he was with Deidara )

- one that was serious ! ( after he reveald himslef to Kisame )

Also Tobi keeps body parts in case that he is getting hit !

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His body has zetsu goo and its not a normal body !

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In the Databook we have something very important

(うちはイズナ, Uchiha Izuna)

Birthdate February 10
Gender Male
Age Deceased
Height 174.8 cm
Weight 55.9 kg

(うちはオビト, Uchiha Obito)

Birthdate February 10
Gender Male
Age 13 (Deceased)
Height 154.2cm
Weight 44.5kg

- Both Izuna and Obito are from the uchiha clan !
- Both Izuna and Obito lost their eyes !
- Both Izuna and Obito are born in the same day of the same month


Conclusion: Obito was the perfect host for Izuna Uchiha !
Izuna soul and consciousness in Obito body !
 

Chatte

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I don't believe Kishi will EVEN fix the gaps now himself XD.

WAIT GUYS. I HAVE AN IDEA.
OMFG LOOK WHAT I THOUGHT OF


TOBI IS OBITO FROM THE FUTURE.(Or Another universe where somebody saved him from of the rocks) THIS WOULD EXPLAIN EVERYTHING. THERE ARE NO COUNTER ARGUMENTS AGAINST THAT!!!!!!

IM STAYING BY THIS THEORY UNTIL IT'S GET REVEALED. NO COUNTER ARGUMENTS AGAISNT THIS!!!.
Yes there are.
Why?
Because he died in the past, therefore he doesn't exist in the future.
 
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Higekage

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I admit I hoped he would not be Obito, since it was too predictable. But since it was finally revealed by the manga author, I guess I'll have to wait for an explanation from the same person...
This. I believed it was definitely gonna be someone old just so that it would make sense to me that Tobi knew Madara and why he was so powerful, also so that the mystery that was built up on Tobi's character wouldn't be obliterated, which it now is. Still I don't think it's really bad that it's Obito, just that I had this nice vision of who Tobi could be and it was crushed. And my vision of Tobi was much more badass tbh and I bet alot of us feel this.
Well as long as everything is explained it's okay. And things must be explained now. There are obvious plotholes, the same that tricked us into thinking it's not Obito, that Kishi if anyone must know and also he must have the answers to them.
 

captainEO

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I'm kinda frustrated that I can't find my previous posts because the thread was deleted. And I don't know why too.

Ugh, and it took me a long time to type that stuff. Argh!
 
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mabanae

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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

dude you are changing everything to prove he is not obito,
first of all there was 2 masked man , madara and obito .
and when he came after kyuubi he was not 14
he was 14 when he died( as we seen) in the manga .

after one year you say ?
you are sooo wrong on soo many levels .
 

Memoria

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I wonder why Kurama was shocked and said "You...!" as if he knew Obito, and how did he know him? when did they meet? ...I hope that much are going to be explained.
 

lubricati0n

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Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

I see people just don't want to burst out of the delusion that Tobi is someone else than Obito. Well this is to help you face your denial, Tobi is Obito and here's a few of your claimed "plotholes" debunked.


"Obito was 14 during the Konoha attack"
I'm yet to see any true evidence about him being 14 during the Konoha attack, and I really don't see where the hell people pulled this crap out of. Anti-Obito theorists just made this up to have the whole timeline plot hole, so I don't see it as a valid argument.

"Obito could not have fought Minato with his combat experience"
Obito did not defeat Minato, he got his ass kicked hard. He didn't even manage to land a blow on Minato. So don't talk as if they were on the same levels.

"Obito could not have summoned the Kyuubi at his age"
Again, there's no evidence about him being 14, but let's assume your nonsense is true and he was 14, so what? Naruto has been cheating his way out of fights with the Kyuubi ever since he was 13. And at 16 he's mastered it to a whole different level than Obito could ever have. When you're a Uchiha and know the right jutsu to do it, what's stopping you from doing so?

"Obito could not have manipulated the Mizukage"
We have very, very little information about this, and everyone's been jumping into the conclusion that the Mizukage was under a genjutsu. But last I checked the only person in the entire shinobi world capable of manipulating people to such an extent is Uchiha Shisui, and his eyes ended up in Itachi and Danzo's possession, not Obito's. What if Obito simply had him blackmailed? We don't know anything about this so this shouldn't even be an argument for any side.

"Obito could not have given Rinnegan to Nagato"
It wasn't Obito who gave him Rinnegan, it was Madara himself before he died.

"Obito could not have helped Yahiko start the Akatsuki"
People think Tobi started the Akatsuki with Yahiko because they believe he's Madara's secret assistant. Well sorry to burst your bubble but Madara's almost certainly been referring to Zetsu as his assistant all this time. We know Madara got his hands on Hashirama DNA, and it's easy to assume he just somehow got Zetsu made out of it. Zetsu got entrusted the mission of recruiting members and finding someone like Obito to take over later on.

"Obito would not have turned evil"
Because "turning" evil isn't a part of these series, I mean Sasuke, Nagato, Konan, and a few others didn't just decide to have their justice done against Konoha. Unless you watch this through Kishimoto's eyes where Naruto is the ultimate form of justice, there's no good and evil in these series, Konohagakure are also jerks who've been abusing of plot no jutsu since the dawn of time to dictate their rules over others, including a clan of their own, the Uchiha. There's plenty of reasons to "turn evil".

"Obito was dead"
Well clearly he's not so dead given he's walking around right now. Orochimaru got killed and then sealed for eternity in a sword that can never be recovered again (due to Itachi being dead), yet he just walked back into the series as if it were is daily routine. So why are you surprised that Obito somehow survived that boulder?

"Obito was unskilled"
So was Naruto and how he's completely overpowered.

... if you got any more ideas bring them in, getting bored now.

EDIT: Here's some more

Obito could not know about Hashirama and Madara
Why the hell not? Everyone who's curious enough does. Besides, he just got all he needed to know from Zetsu. Everything Madara knew, Zetsu knows. Everything Zetsu knows, Obito knows. It's that simple.
1) Actually there is perfect proof of Obito being 14 years old back then. Kakashi and Obito were the same age, Obito died when he was 13. Kakashi's age during the early Naruto episodes was 26. The attack from the nine-tails was 12 years ago, therefore Kakashi was 14 and so was Obito. Basic math buddy.

2) Obito died. Do you mean to tell me a kid that got his entire right side crushed by multiple boulders lived? The Narutoverse are all humans. Then again, from the recent chapter he seems to be alive, plot holes galore.

Plot holes in Naruto? Everywhere.
 

Bloodytaste

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I still believe that Madara's Rinnegan was never given to Nagato.
If me as Madara would be back to life by Rinne Tensei i would instantly know that i lost my eyes, when ive had given them away. But as we can see Madara was revived with 3 Tomoe Sharingan and not the Rinnegan itself. Kabuto stated himself, that he only guessed the Sharingan could evolve to the Rinnegan, which gave me some thoughts.
If we think about it logically, Madara died shortly after getting his Rinnegan.
What does shortly mean for him.
Couple of minutes? Hours? Days?Weeks? Months?Years? We do not know either. For me shortly would not exceed over one day. So lets think about Madara got his Rinnegan and he got to know, that he was going to die...or was it a death that occured without his knowing? Well if i knew i was going to die, i would kinda go and make a back up Plan, but how should i find someone who would be able to bring me back, in just a couple of hours or days? For sure he must have had knew about Nagato much earlier, what if Nagato really got his Rinnegan by himself? That would give Madara a good reason to watch over him or search for him.
I think Madara died shortly before the Attack of Konoha by Tobi/Obito. He gave Obito the orders to watch over Nagato, until he would be able to revive him, and to go according to his plan by attacking Konoha. Maybe he also said, wait for me till im back before you attack konoha, but Obito just rushed things and thought why shouldn't i do it myself, im able to control they kyuubi right now, i have this powerfull Kamui...i dont need Madara anymore...so Nagato could become his own backup plan, and he just took over Madaras Plan and ID, this would be a reason why tobi/Obito would be afraid of Madara himself~

This is kinda my theory~
my guess

but @ Memoria your sig...
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what if Madara is Nagatos dad? wont this make everthin omgosh thats where he got the rinnegan... a mixture of Uchiha and uzumaki...Tobi as Madara said i gave him this eyes...maybe because madara is something like his father? This would be a great solution how to explain the timeline....
 

Chatte

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That applies to real life, not necessarily to fiction. He is from the future, where he didn't die actually. I'll stay by that until it will get revealed.
Yes it does as the law of physics apply everywhere. Only IF Kishi invents a new one.

Example.

You are now in 2012 (substitute it with Obito's time of near death). The future you, is in 2030.

A past you is in... let's say 1970.

If you are alive in 2012 is logical that you can go in 2030 and there go back to 1970 let's say, because you didn't die in 2012.

BUT If you died in 2012 it is impossible for you to exist in 2030 and go back in 1970.

See where I point?

It will have to be a damn well constructed theory of Kishi and relevant to the laws of physics in order to be true.
 

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Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

1) Actually there is perfect proof of Obito being 14 years old back then. Kakashi and Obito were the same age, Obito died when he was 13. Kakashi's age during the early Naruto episodes was 26. The attack from the nine-tails was 12 years ago, therefore Kakashi was 14 and so was Obito. Basic math buddy.

2) Obito died. Do you mean to tell me a kid that got his entire right side crushed by multiple boulders lived? The Narutoverse are all humans. Then again, from the recent chapter he seems to be alive, plot holes galore.

Plot holes in Naruto? Everywhere.
Don't worry, he will say it's fake/no proof of Kakashi being 26, like he explains most of the plotholes.
 
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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

I know what you mean about how bizarre that is but considering how fast Naruto progressed in less than a year I believe because I think he is still 16 right? Obito already had his sharingan and plus he has Madara for a teacher is that's how he got stronger and Madara as we saw on the manga is a complete beast I mean I wouldn't be so surprised with that progress at all honestly
 

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I wonder why Kurama was shocked and said "You...!" as if he knew Obito, and how did he know him? when did they meet? ...I hope that much are going to be explained.
maybe he thought of him as madara? when he even saw sasuke the first time he said your eyes resemble him. Madara was the first one who controlled kyuubi afterwards nobody else could have done it, so Kurama would for sure have told them who tobi really is if they would have known each other before madara.
I think he just thought it is Madara, because of his Attitude or Aura that maybe resembled madara somehow.
 

Chatte

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maybe he thought of him as madara? when he even saw sasuke the first time he said your eyes resemble him. Madara was the first one who controlled kyuubi afterwards nobody else could have done it, so Kurama would for sure have told them who tobi really is if they would have known each other before madara.
I think he just thought it is Madara, because of his Attitude or Aura that maybe resembled madara somehow.
Yes, but there are 2 different statements.
The one when he saw Sasuke it was a certain,undoubtleful statement that his eyes resemble Madara's ones, meaning they are similar because he didn't saw the eyes before but could resemble them to Madara's WHILE when he saw Tobi, it was a clear, undeniable statement of amazement/100 percent accurate information that he knew him, recognized him.

Madara was the first one to control Kyuubi, indeed but why aren't we sure that on one of the sessions be had Izuna with him as well, therefore Kurama recognizing him. :)
 

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Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

"Obito was 14 during the Konoha attack"
I'm yet to see any true evidence about him being 14 during the Konoha attack, and I really don't see where the hell people pulled this crap out of. Anti-Obito theorists just made this up to have the whole timeline plot hole, so I don't see it as a valid argument.
14 or not, it doesn't matter his exact age. If you look at the pictures of Kakashi and Gai in that time I suppose they are tall enough that somebody of their age could pretend to be Tobi.

The real problem with the timing of the attack is this: It was only a year or two after Obito's apparent death. Maybe three years, to be generous. During that time Obito needed to be rescued from under the boulder, he needed to recover from the very traumatic injury, he needed his personality to flip 180 degrees (from a good guy to a very bad guy), he needed to unlock MS and his Kamui, and he needed to train for his mission. That's a hell of a lot of things that needed to happen, more or less in order, in a very short amount of time.

"Obito could not have fought Minato with his combat experience"
Obito did not defeat Minato, he got his ass kicked hard. He didn't even manage to land a blow on Minato. So don't talk as if they were on the same levels.
Sure Obito lost the battle, but he sure did put up a good fight. Minato's speed is extremely high, and the fact that Tobi was able to keep up with any of his movements suggests Obito was at a pretty high level during that fight. Their first exchange, on top of the hokage monument, happened very quickly. Tobi was intangible for what was a very quick kunai attack through his head, then he resolidified quickly and was able to grab Minato's arm in mid swing. These aren't chuunin we're talking about. We're talking about one of the fastest ninja ever, being caught during a very quick attack.

"Obito could not have given Rinnegan to Nagato"
It wasn't Obito who gave him Rinnegan, it was Madara himself before he died.
Madara ripped out his own eyes, secretly implanted them into an unknowing recipient, then disappeared into the night to die without anybody (except Kabuto) knowing where his body was hid. I'm sure it's very easy to do an eye transplant operation when you're blind. This is all sarcasm.

"Obito could not have helped Yahiko start the Akatsuki"
People think Tobi started the Akatsuki with Yahiko because they believe he's Madara's secret assistant. Well sorry to burst your bubble but Madara's almost certainly been referring to Zetsu as his assistant all this time. We know Madara got his hands on Hashirama DNA, and it's easy to assume he just somehow got Zetsu made out of it. Zetsu got entrusted the mission of recruiting members and finding someone like Obito to take over later on.
You're forgetting the scenes where Tobi talks to Pain and gives him orders. Here's one example:



The "invincible Pain" wouldn't take orders from anybody, and this is clearly not Zetsu speaking. Tobi is clearly giving orders to Pain. Now, if Nagato and Yahiko founded the organization are Nagato is in charge of it, why is he taking orders from anybody?

"Obito would not have turned evil"
Because "turning" evil isn't a part of these series, I mean Sasuke, Nagato, Konan, and a few others didn't just decide to have their justice done against Konoha. Unless you watch this through Kishimoto's eyes where Naruto is the ultimate form of justice, there's no good and evil in these series, Konohagakure are also jerks who've been abusing of plot no jutsu since the dawn of time to dictate their rules over others, including a clan of their own, the Uchiha. There's plenty of reasons to "turn evil".
But all those people you mention had reasons to become evil:
1) Sasuke watched his entire clan get massacred, and his quest for revenge and power lead him to Orochimaru
2) Nagato, likewise, watched his parents get murdered, watched his village get ravaged by war, and even was forced to kill his best friend by his own hand (all while not really having a stable mentor figure, because Jiraya didn't stay).
3) Konan is with Nagato, and believed he was the messiah. She wasn't really evil so much

Obito had no such reasons. Obito didn't become evil after losing his family and his clan, because Obito performed the massacre that killed them. His experiences in war weren't much worse than anybody else's. His very last act was giving Kakashi his eye. His very last thought was about how much he loved Rin and never told her. How do you go from that to being a ruthless murder, who kills a pregnant woman, threatens to kill a newborn baby, unleashes a natural disaster on a village of mostly innocent people and then goes back years later to personally massacre one of the clans there?

These are two completely different people. Tobi represents a complete role reversal for Obito in every way. Every single thing that Obito believed is completely the opposite of what tobi believes.

Nagato at least had the benefit of several painful events shaping a gradual evolution of his mindset. He lost his parents young and was set on a path of hardship and pain that slowly but inevitably lead him to becoming a villain. Obito was a good person with good friends, and he become the complete opposite in every way in only a few short years.

Going from good to evil isn't a light switch that you just turn on and then one day you turn it off. It's a gradual journey shaped by events. In three years Obito, apparently, had all those events AND did a bunch of other training and preparation as well.

"Obito was unskilled"
So was Naruto and how he's completely overpowered.
Naruto is also a prophesized hero with the full chakra and power of the 9-tailed demon fox sealed inside him. The 9-tails being, remember, the most powerful of all the bijuu. Naruto's intense training has been in pursuit of goals he's had since he was a child. Obito's goals completely reversed themselves, which means for the same amount of necessary training there would have been times when his motivations were not clear enough to continue.

But motivations don't even really matter. What matters is that Naruto contains an extra, super-sized power source that Obito does not have. Naruto's explosive growth can be attributed to his status as a jinchuuriki. Without the fox, Naruto would not be anywhere near as powerful as he is today.
 
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Yes it does as the law of physics apply everywhere. Only IF Kishi invents a new one.

Example.

You are now in 2012 (substitute it with Obito's time of near death). The future you, is in 2030.

A past you is in... let's say 1970.

If you are alive in 2012 is logical that you can go in 2030 and there go back to 1970 let's say, because you didn't die in 2012.

BUT If you died in 2012 it is impossible for you to exist in 2030 and go back in 1970.

See where I point?

It will have to be a damn well constructed theory of Kishi and relevant to the laws of physics in order to be true.
Im not going to argue with you in that, since everyone's opinion differs. But seriously, let's take Trunks from DBZ as an example.

He died in one timezone (Killed by Cell, when he wanted to go somewhere with his Time Machine), and regardless of this he was still alive in another future, where he changed the events.

I'll stay on my Future Obito theory now forever. If im wrong, oh well. But im not going to change.
 

Chatte

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Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Ok :

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Also I have a quote for you by Itachi:

"People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" or "true"? Merely vague concepts ... their "reality" may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?"
Yes, solid proof that Tobi could be anyone else as well.

WHy?

What they accept. It is stated that Obito is Tobi as correct, but as Itachi implies, there are merely vague concepts and because saying Obito is Tobi doesn't mean it is correct. ;) See what I mean?

You gave me the perfect tool to counteract Tobi = Obito. ;)


Cause he got brainwashed by Zetsu, and was pretending to be Madara.


Lol give me a break, because that were Gai and Kakashi's reaction, it's like "what the ****??", not "hey Obito nice to see you!".


So he made an entire chapter about Obito's life, while also naming it Obito Uchiha, for no reason. You make a lot of sense, you know that? This is nonsense, if he were someone else Kishi would've started the chapter by showing his face, and leaving us hanging at the bigger mystery at the end.

Frankly you sound to me like you have little knowledge of how story writing works, you're making false assumptions out of question marks and the whole structure of the chapter itself.
1. Zetsu hasn't shown any ability of brainwashing. So it's kinda illogical assumption. To be an older character like Izuna&co. is more plausible and easy to explain.

2. What did you want to counteract by that? The exact reaction of them is a solid proof to strenghten what I say.

3. Yes, I made those assumptions and they were backed-up with the reason on WHY Kishi would do that. IF you ignore it doesn't mean it isn't there.

It has been proven before for example how a comma could change an entire meaning of a phrase, so yeah, grammar and the way you write things into are very important details. If you deny that, it's your problem.

Frankly, you sound to me as someone with little depth in the story for someone stating about me to have little knowledge of the story.
 
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