Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions
- Thread starter Avani
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adeshina365
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It was either the other masked man who did that (Madara) or Tobi was talking from Madara's perspective.
Tobi is Obito, deal with it:flaw:
LeafSpirit 20
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Well... your right.. But lets admit it was a loong battle between obitos theorys, and izuna, and others.. (Insults, etc) Which makes it the more enjoyable in the end x)
Gyakusetsu
Active member
Can we all agree that the only logical connection Madara would have to Nagato would be his Rinnegan? There is no reason other than this that ties these two together. If you believe this, then some form of time travel has occurred, or Madara's Rinnegan was never given to Nagato. Accepting that either Tobi is Obito or Obito's body inhabited by another or both does not alter this.
Madara is on record admitting to Kabuto that he and at least one other person have a plan and that Madara expected to be revived by Nagato. He is also on record as saying he died shortly after obtaining the Rinnegan. Nagato had the Rinnegan while Jiraiya trained him, which would mean Madara is dead during this period. Jiraiya trained Minato after he trained Nagato. Minato trained Obito. Did Nagato loose his eyes at some point and just wasn't aware of it, or was a toddler Obito responsible for Nagato having Madara's eyes?
Adjust your theories accordingly.
Madara is on record admitting to Kabuto that he and at least one other person have a plan and that Madara expected to be revived by Nagato. He is also on record as saying he died shortly after obtaining the Rinnegan. Nagato had the Rinnegan while Jiraiya trained him, which would mean Madara is dead during this period. Jiraiya trained Minato after he trained Nagato. Minato trained Obito. Did Nagato loose his eyes at some point and just wasn't aware of it, or was a toddler Obito responsible for Nagato having Madara's eyes?
Adjust your theories accordingly.
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Bloodytaste
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I still believe that Madara's Rinnegan was never given to Nagato.
If me as Madara would be back to life by Rinne Tensei i would instantly know that i lost my eyes, when ive had given them away. But as we can see Madara was revived with 3 Tomoe Sharingan and not the Rinnegan itself. Kabuto stated himself, that he only guessed the Sharingan could evolve to the Rinnegan, which gave me some thoughts.
If we think about it logically, Madara died shortly after getting his Rinnegan.
What does shortly mean for him.
Couple of minutes? Hours? Days?Weeks? Months?Years? We do not know either. For me shortly would not exceed over one day. So lets think about Madara got his Rinnegan and he got to know, that he was going to die...or was it a death that occured without his knowing? Well if i knew i was going to die, i would kinda go and make a back up Plan, but how should i find someone who would be able to bring me back, in just a couple of hours or days? For sure he must have had knew about Nagato much earlier, what if Nagato really got his Rinnegan by himself? That would give Madara a good reason to watch over him or search for him.
I think Madara died shortly before the Attack of Konoha by Tobi/Obito. He gave Obito the orders to watch over Nagato, until he would be able to revive him, and to go according to his plan by attacking Konoha. Maybe he also said, wait for me till im back before you attack konoha, but Obito just rushed things and thought why shouldn't i do it myself, im able to control they kyuubi right now, i have this powerfull Kamui...i dont need Madara anymore...so Nagato could become his own backup plan, and he just took over Madaras Plan and ID, this would be a reason why tobi/Obito would be afraid of Madara himself~
This is kinda my theory~
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Gyakusetsu
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So you believe Madara's comment about Nagato is simply a Kishi troll item? Why would Kishi go to that level? It cheapens the Rinnegan and diminishes the story. To make a completely different Rinnegan, that somehow Madara becomes aware of, and incorporates into his plans would be extremely amatuerish.
No, I don't buy it. I think it was a reveal not a troll item. Kishi's style is always to reveal a mystery while giving us another. At that moment, he revealed who was in the 6th coffin and presented us with a new mystery to solve.
Bloodytaste
Member
it was not a troll item
this sig made me think about the posbillty of Nagato beeing madaras son.
half uchhia half uzumaki a perfect symbol and also a way to achive the Rinnegan without any stupid Dna tests~ Maybe Nagato was as i said an experiment...like tobi said, i gave it to him as madara. So like giving this power by brith~ It would fill up everything and how madara knew nagato and tried to use his powers, or maybe to achieve it on his own.
if this is true it would fill every plot hole~
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this sig made me think about the posbillty of Nagato beeing madaras son.
half uchhia half uzumaki a perfect symbol and also a way to achive the Rinnegan without any stupid Dna tests~ Maybe Nagato was as i said an experiment...like tobi said, i gave it to him as madara. So like giving this power by brith~ It would fill up everything and how madara knew nagato and tried to use his powers, or maybe to achieve it on his own.
if this is true it would fill every plot hole~
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-Haku Yuki-
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well i give up deneyign it i kinda want him to alive anyway, wikipedia says he's still 13 -_-
Gyakusetsu
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Interesting but if nauturally Nagato's why is it always on and what happened to Madara's own eyes then? You don't missplace the most powerful Doujutsu. Tobito could have saved himself a lot of trouble. If transplanted then the time inconsistency re-applies. This is a binary decision because we know that Madara was Edo'd with the eyes which means he died with them. They were either grabbed by someone after the fact and transplanted (Tobi) or they are missing because Kabuto didn't have them and he had the whole body.
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Bloodytaste
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well Nagato would be like the both body and soul(eyes, as we know the eyes are the door to your soul or something like that) united, which means he wont get sharingan/body he will get the Sage Power himself. The Rinnegan...maybe in an not fully improved way but still the combination would not need this evolution from sharingan to rinnegan. While Madara as an Uchiha could only achieve this by fusing with Senju~
maybe he died and deactivated them so nobody could use his eye powers without knowings its secret and i belive that he did not want to entrust them tobi maybe madara also not fully trusted his pupil, as we know Obito is also often rushing things. As we see Madara came back with 3 tomoe so to think about that this was his last " appeareance" before he died wouldnt be to worse. I mean me as madara would know instantly if i would be brought back by Rinne Tensei, or by some other jutsu. I mean Madara would came back without his eyes then, an he sure would knew that there is something wrong...but he did jsut realized it so much later~
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there...he only realized it was impure world ressurection because of Muu telling him...this means he for sure died with his eyes or Madara we know know is a really "blind" minded character~
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as Madara says this must be his doing...he refers to A Obito or B Orochimaru...B unlikly but A would make sense. He says there is probably a reason behind this...so Obito really was told by madara to bring him back by Rinne Tensei...and if thats true, the only logical reason there is, that Madara did not gave his Eyes away to Nagato. If he is his father or not...with this what we have know its the best guess to say Madara was alive without giving away his Rinnegan to Nagato. There is still a chance to think about someone else who might posses a part of Obitos mind, but thats really to far fletched after we saw that flashback of Obito...and it was not Kakashi viewing point it was an outside view~
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I think when madara mentioned he died shortly after awakening the rinnegan I think he kind of exaggerated a little. I think it was enough time to meet nagato and find the right person to give the rinnegan. When madara revived through edo tensei he was expecting nagato to revive him when he mentioned it looked like it finally happend, nagato has grown up. Then how does nagato have the rinnegan? He had it when he was child and you dont expect infant obito to transplant rinnegan to nagato. Since nagato already had his rinnegan before his parents were killed likely got a transplant when he was infant or was born with it.
I think nagato rinnegan is madaras cause if madara had his seperate rinnegan obito wouldnt need nagato rinnegan and would go for madara rinnegan or two rinnegans or madara sharingan would be evident in manga
I think nagato rinnegan is madaras cause if madara had his seperate rinnegan obito wouldnt need nagato rinnegan and would go for madara rinnegan or two rinnegans or madara sharingan would be evident in manga
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Bloodytaste
Member
the problem is, that madara and obito know eacht other. Obito maybe did not got to get madaras eyes anymore, as I said if u transplant eyes u usually get them the way they are. But as we saw u can change their shape to ms if its a sharingan which already got ms like shisuis. As we see tobi cant change the transplanted rinnegan also nagato could not change them. But me as Madara i wont give away my own eyes, i mean he was ressurected with 3 tomoe sharingan not rinnegan himself and also not with normal deactivated eyes. This would mean, that he also died with 3 Tomoes on...which my conlusion is if someone would transplant his eyes they wont achive Rinnegan.
I mean we see that if u Achieve the Sharingan as a non uchiha u can improve and swicht it to MS(like kakashi or danzou), why cant tobi then Swicht to madaras ms or ems? I tell u because it is a one and only Rinnegan and not an transformed one.
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If you look at itachi when he was revived by edo tensei he still had his eyes when tobi transplanted itachis eyes to sasuke. This means madara still had his eyes before he died.
Then again inconsistencies with edi tensei such as madara looks like he was same as when he fought harishama or very young if madara died later during obitos time would be old. If madara awakened his rinnegan and died he should have his rinnegan when revived by edi tensei. So inconsistency with edi tensei or madara can evolve his rinnegan back to ems and thats why madara still has his sharingan when revived.
Another explanation why madara doesnt have his rinnegan when revived with edi tensei madara dna sample was taken or obtained before he awakened his rinnegan and died. Also itachi and nagato still had their eyes because kabuto obtained their dna before they died. Also i think its madara can change rinnegan back to MS or sharingan. he hasnt done so against kages because it makes him invincible. Nagato cant change back because he isnt uchiha and tobi cant do it because he hasnt awakened EMS yet or because he hasn't own eyes to do it.
Then again inconsistencies with edi tensei such as madara looks like he was same as when he fought harishama or very young if madara died later during obitos time would be old. If madara awakened his rinnegan and died he should have his rinnegan when revived by edi tensei. So inconsistency with edi tensei or madara can evolve his rinnegan back to ems and thats why madara still has his sharingan when revived.
Another explanation why madara doesnt have his rinnegan when revived with edi tensei madara dna sample was taken or obtained before he awakened his rinnegan and died. Also itachi and nagato still had their eyes because kabuto obtained their dna before they died. Also i think its madara can change rinnegan back to MS or sharingan. he hasnt done so against kages because it makes him invincible. Nagato cant change back because he isnt uchiha and tobi cant do it because he hasnt awakened EMS yet or because he hasn't own eyes to do it.
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Bloodytaste
Member
nonono bro thats not it i know about edo tensei...im speaking of Renne Tensei. With Rinne Tensei he would instantly know he has no eyes but he did not when he thought he was revived...that why i think he never gave away his eyes.
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