To the idiots saying the fight was a Tie.

Punk Hazard · Oct 29, 2014

Volk said:
Lol despite Sasuke advantage he tied with a disadvantaged Naruto. Lel circumstances increased 1 party and decreased another to bring about this tie, and now people are claiming equality? Lol

There were no advantages.

V h o · Oct 29, 2014

KidGamer65 said:
Ok.

Since when did we rank power by the number of abilities?

-Naruto has half oh Rikudo's Power. He has 1 Full Bijuu and 8 pieces of the rest, Rikudo Senjutsu, and he has all the NE he gathered at the end.

-Sasuke has half of Rikudo's Power. He has the 9 Bijuu (Which is balanced out by Naruto's gathered NE at the end) and he has his Rinnegan/Sharingan, which is shown to be balanced out by Naruto's Rikudo Senjutsu and Kurama Avatar.

What full bijuu? He has half of kurama and bits of the others (which were not even used in the fight). Sasuke possess half of Kurama, and majority of the other bijuu.

Unless its stronger than his strongest move, its moot, and since he needed a shitload of NE for that attack, no, he isn't topping it with his own chakra, and once again, unless the increased quantity lets him top his best move, its useless.

Nothing has even said what Naruto's strongest move is.

Secondly naruto's moves do get stronger with more chakra added to them, so Naruto's chakra added to his "strongest attack" would be stronger if he had more chakra, than an attack which lacked that chakra.

Unless you are saying his attacks do not get stronger with more chakra?

He needed all 6 hands to form his best technique, so he isn't making more than one of those giant FRS, nor is anything else he's ever used come close to that level of power, even when he had a lot of chakra.

All this still runs from a Naruto low on chakra, more chakra means more hands to generated RSs.

Either way this wasn't even my point of him increasing that attack, but the fact he could use more attacks with more chakra.

It actually does change things, because Naruto himself being low on chakra doesn't mean that his Bijuu are low on chakra.

-A Naruto who is spamming Kurama clones and Bijuu Dama isn't low on chakra.

-A Naruto who only uses Taijutsu and Rasengan, in Base, is low on chakra.
There is a clear difference.

Low is low, Naruto was low beforehand and only got lower as the battle drew to a close, as you just depicted.

Lol, wrong. If Naruto is low on chakra, his Bijuu give him chakra.

Yes and? Still Naruto is low, bijuu chakra doesn't ignore this fact but compensates for it. He uses there chakra, since his is low.

Just making it clear.

Read above for the first part, but lol. You are going to need proof of this if you are talking about the Nature Energy gathered at the end, if not, then its irrelevant regardless.

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Maybe dead was the wrong word, "completely blown away" is better.

Then we go back to the fact that none of you have evidence he had enough energy to do anything more than what he did. What he did had all of the NE he gathered put into it.

To illustrate things:

Nature Energy gathered=10

FRS=4

BDFRS=6

Lava FRS costs more chakra than a normal FRS, so it'd be 5 or above. 6+5 is over 10, thus Naruto can't use both at the same time.

That is most likely what happened here. All I know for sure is, that was Naruto's strongest attack and its speculation to believe he can top it.

Are you saying Naruto did not have enough chakra to perform LRS if Naruto's chakra was not low? Because I'm saying LRS and TBBRS could have been used, instead of the inferior FRS and TBBRS.

KidGamer65 · Oct 29, 2014

Volk said:
What full bijuu? He has half of kurama and bits of the others (which were not even used in the fight). Sasuke possess half of Kurama, and majority of the other bijuu.

Half of Kurama counts as a full Bijuu, as its far superior to any other Bijuu despite the others not being split in half.

Nothing has even said what Naruto's strongest move is.

Touche.

Secondly naruto's moves do get stronger with more chakra added to them, so Naruto's chakra added to his "strongest attack" would be stronger if he had more chakra, than an attack which lacked that chakra.

1. Not all of them do.

2. Naruto used the Nature Energy he gathered for that attack, so no, pumping more chakra into it doesn't mean it'll get stronger.

3. Not all jutsu work like that. A Rasengan used by a full chakra Naruto isn't' going to be weaker than a Rasengan used by a half chakra Naruto. There mere existence of Shadow Clones and the fact that Naruto's moves aren't weaker when used through clones proves you wrong on this point. More chakra available=/=Stronger jutsu.

All this still runs from a Naruto low on chakra, more chakra means more hands to generated RSs.

Now we are treading into the fanfic area. Evidence that Naruto can form an Avatar with more hands than that?

Either way this wasn't even my point of him increasing that attack, but the fact he could use more attacks with more chakra.

And once again, no quantity of attacks he's shown near full chakra is anywhere close to the power of the technique he used at the end.

Low is low, Naruto was low beforehand and only got lower as the battle drew to a close, as you just depicted.

I know, low is low. Spamming chakra taxing abilities means you aren't low on chakra. That simple.

Yes and? Still Naruto is low, bijuu chakra doesn't ignore this fact but compensates for it. He uses there chakra, since his is low.

Meaning he can still fight at the best of his abilities as his chakra isn't the one being used for his best moves, thus its irrelevant as long as he has enough chakra to fight.

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Maybe dead was the wrong word, "completely blown away" is better.

Because of Sasuke's attack. They needed that energy to match Sasuke's attack, without it he would have killed them. Has nothing to do with Naruto's chakra reserves.

Are you saying Naruto did not have enough chakra to perform LRS if Naruto's chakra was not low? Because I'm saying LRS and TBBRS could have been used, instead of the inferior FRS and TBBRS.

Nope, cause Naruto used the Nature Energy gathered for those, which is external power, not his own chakra.

V h o · Oct 29, 2014

KidGamer65 said:
Half of Kurama counts as a full Bijuu, as its far superior to any other Bijuu despite the others not being split in half.

Touche.

Half of Kurama +Naruto. Not just Kurama alone, so it still counts as half of kurama. Especially since Sasuke has the other half.

1. Not all of them do.

2. Naruto used the Nature Energy he gathered for that attack, so no, pumping more chakra into it doesn't mean it'll get stronger.

3. Not all jutsu work like that. A Rasengan used by a full chakra Naruto isn't' going to be weaker than a Rasengan used by a half chakra Naruto. There mere existence of Shadow Clones and the fact that Naruto's moves aren't weaker when used through clones proves you wrong on this point. More chakra available=/=Stronger jutsu.

Why are rasengans bigger then? Is it not more chakra being poured into it than the smaller ones? Just compared Kakashi's rasengan to minato/naruto/Jman's rasengan.

Now we are treading into the fanfic area. Evidence that Naruto can form an Avatar with more hands than that?

Like I said that was never my point. Him using 2 of those NE RS is still what I'm saying, just the inferior FRS being replaced with LRS.

And once again, no quantity of attacks he's shown near full chakra is anywhere close to the power of the technique he used at the end.

Lol Naruto after using his big attack was even lower on chakra, what I'm saying is Naruto could have used other techniques after that point if he had more chakra. Replaced that rasengan he used (where tripped on the rock) with FRS or whatever else you want).

I know, low is low. Spamming chakra taxing abilities means you aren't low on chakra. That simple.

For a chakra monster like Naruto that is low. Naruto was still low from using 6-7 TBBRS, TBRS, and other attacks in the previous fights.

Meaning he can still fight at the best of his abilities as his chakra isn't the one being used for his best moves, thus its irrelevant as long as he has enough chakra to fight.

Evidently the bijuu (mainly kurama) were low on chakra also then, unless making 3-4 avatars/clones, rasengan, 2 RSs (fuuton and TBB), rasengan, and maybe something else I'm missing is all of Kurama's chakra and Naruto's other reserves.

Because of Sasuke's attack. They needed that energy to match Sasuke's attack, without it he would have killed them. Has nothing to do with Naruto's chakra reserves.

Point was that if Naruto had more chakra, he would've overpowered Sasuke's attack at that point.

Nope, cause Naruto used the Nature Energy gathered for those, which is external power, not his own chakra.

He could have still used a NE LRS then.

Retsu · Oct 29, 2014

Volk said:
Lol despite Sasuke advantage he tied with a disadvantaged Naruto. Lel circumstances increased 1 party and decreased another to bring about this tie, and now people are claiming equality? Lol

Some people just can't take defeat with dignity

KidGamer65 · Oct 30, 2014

Volk said:
Half of Kurama +Naruto. Not just Kurama alone, so it still counts as half of kurama. Especially since Sasuke has the other half.

Now you are just arguing semantics, because that doesn't change anything I said, it just changes how I refer to Kurama.

Naruto has half of one Bijuu and 8 pieces of the rest.

Sasuke has 8 full Bijuu and one half of a Bijuu.

Doesn't change the fact that the NE Naruto got balances it out, as I stated above.

Why are rasengans bigger then? Is it not more chakra being poured into it than the smaller ones? Just compared Kakashi's rasengan to minato/naruto/Jman's rasengan.

Never said that jutsu can't get bigger with more chakra added. An unlimited amount of chakra can't be poured into whatever jutsu you want it to be poured into. That is my point. Madara pouring all of his chakra into his Katon is fanfic, just like Naruto pouring all or any more of his chakra than he did into his final attack.

Like I said that was never my point. Him using 2 of those NE RS is still what I'm saying, just the inferior FRS being replaced with LRS.

Already explained why he can't do that.

Lol Naruto after using his big attack was even lower on chakra,

Because he took heavy damage. Damage=Loss of stamina=Loss of chakra. Besides, how is this a reply to the part of the post you quoted? Never denied that he was lower on chakra after the attack.

what I'm saying is Naruto could have used other techniques after that point if he had more chakra. Replaced that rasengan he used (where tripped on the rock) with FRS or whatever else you want).

Naruto ended up with little chakra because he took heavy damage, so regardless of what chakra he had, the explosion would have put him in that state, thus he's unable to use his big techniques. Same thing with Sasuke. They were both fine after generating and using their final techniques, yet after the explosion they come out w/ little chakra. The damage made them lose stamina, which made them lose chakra as its been established that stamina=chakra.

For a chakra monster like Naruto that is low.

Nothing but your assumption. And even then, as we have seen it didn't affect his fighting prowess, so I don't know why you people are so hung up on his chakra.

Naruto was still low from using 6-7 TBBRS, TBRS, and other attacks in the previous fights.

Naruto was in no way overall, low on chakra then either, as he had just gotten half of Hagoromo's chakra and he just got Yin Kurama. You don't get a refill of chakra that is larger than any chakra you've ever had in your life, only to say that you are low on chakra.

Evidently the bijuu (mainly kurama) were low on chakra also then

Nope. Naruto was stated to be low on chakra, not his Bijuu.

unless making 3-4 avatars/clones, rasengan, 2 RSs (fuuton and TBB), rasengan, and maybe something else I'm missing is all of Kurama's chakra and Naruto's other reserves.

Kurama hands Naruto chakra to use his mode. Naruto ended up weakened after taking that last hit, so no, 4 Avatars, 2 RS. and 4 Bijuu Dama isn't all of his chakra. Damage from the explosion is what caused him to lose the rest, which brings him back to his Base Chakra, which he used up fighting Sasuke in Taijutsu, and using a Rasengan. Then Kurama handed Naruto chakra, which Sasuke took, then Kurama gave Naruto his own chakra (Proving that the chakra Naruto is handed and the chakra of Kurama himself is different) to finish the fight with.

Point was that if Naruto had more chakra, he would've overpowered Sasuke's attack at that point.

Read above.

He could have still used a NE LRS then.

Nope. Already explained why. The whole argument of Naruto being able to use something stronger than what he did use is pretty much nothing but speculation, and relies on you guys using your expectations of Naruto's power instead of using what the manga has given you.

LuckyMan · Oct 30, 2014

Naruto won. If both of them were fresh Naruto would kill Sasuke in a clash of attacks like that. He probably used more chakra fighting a 3 day war than all of the Allied Forces combined and if he had all that power to add with him in a similar scenario as the one he and Sasuke ended up in he would win. No debate. No discussion.

so12p · Oct 30, 2014

De-nile is not just a river in Egypt.

V h o · Oct 30, 2014

KidGamer65 said:
Now you are just arguing semantics, because that doesn't change anything I said, it just changes how I refer to Kurama.

Naruto has half of one Bijuu and 8 pieces of the rest.

Sasuke has 8 full Bijuu and one half of a Bijuu.

Doesn't change the fact that the NE Naruto got balances it out, as I stated above.

Lol half is half, your full bijuu thing is what got you into these "semantics".

Never said that jutsu can't get bigger with more chakra added. An unlimited amount of chakra can't be poured into whatever jutsu you want it to be poured into. That is my point. Madara pouring all of his chakra into his Katon is fanfic, just like Naruto pouring all or any more of his chakra than he did into his final attack.

No one said unlimited or pouring all of their chakra into an attack, and katon is far different than rasengan.

Already explained why he can't do that.

Because he took heavy damage. Damage=Loss of stamina=Loss of chakra. Besides, how is this a reply to the part of the post you quoted? Never denied that he was lower on chakra after the attack.

Naruto ended up with little chakra because he took heavy damage, so regardless of what chakra he had, the explosion would have put him in that state, thus he's unable to use his big techniques. Same thing with Sasuke. They were both fine after generating and using their final techniques, yet after the explosion they come out w/ little chakra. The damage made them lose stamina, which made them lose chakra as its been established that stamina=chakra.

Chakra= stamina (physical) and spiritual energy, not just stamina.

Nothing but your assumption. And even then, as we have seen it didn't affect his fighting prowess, so I don't know why you people are so hung up on his chakra.

So the few moves he used (6-7) is Naruto not low on chakra? Lol

Naruto was in no way overall, low on chakra then either, as he had just gotten half of Hagoromo's chakra and he just got Yin Kurama. You don't get a refill of chakra that is larger than any chakra you've ever had in your life, only to say that you are low on chakra.

I was saying those moves caused him to be low now, not that he was low then.

Nope. Naruto was stated to be low on chakra, not his Bijuu.

Kurama hands Naruto chakra to use his mode. Naruto ended up weakened after taking that last hit, so no, 4 Avatars, 2 RS. and 4 Bijuu Dama isn't all of his chakra. Damage from the explosion is what caused him to lose the rest, which brings him back to his Base Chakra, which he used up fighting Sasuke in Taijutsu, and using a Rasengan. Then Kurama handed Naruto chakra, which Sasuke took, then Kurama gave Naruto his own chakra (Proving that the chakra Naruto is handed and the chakra of Kurama himself is different) to finish the fight with.

The rest of that chakra (whatever amount it was) was enough to put kurama to sleep since he would be out of chakra by then, so no Kurama was still low or still recovering from past fights of using chakra. That explosion didn't result in Kurama losing this large amount of chakra.

Read above.

Nope. Already explained why.

Please explain why Naruto could not charge LRS(since LRS is made from son's chakra) with NE if he had more chakra that was used up from previous fights.

The whole argument of Naruto being able to use something stronger than what he did use is pretty much nothing but speculation, and relies on you guys using your expectations of Naruto's power instead of using what the manga has given you.

It obviously speculation when the circumstances that brought this fight are having Naruto being less on chakra then what he is normally is capable of. Basically Naruto has been fighting a gauntlet.

This is so difficult to do on my phone....

KidGamer65 · Oct 30, 2014

Volk said:
Lol half is half, your full bijuu thing is what got you into these "semantics".

Your nitpicking is what started an argument over semantics.

No one said unlimited or pouring all of their chakra into an attack, and katon is far different than rasengan.

In this aspect? No, its not. It proves that you can't pour an unlimited amount of chakra into an attack, so I have no reason that Naruto can pour anymore chakra into his attack than what was used in canon.

Chakra= stamina (physical) and spiritual energy, not just stamina.

Yeah, if you lose physical energy, you lose chakra as you are losing a part of the component needed to form chakra. Naruto losing all that chakra when getting heavily injured, and people's chakra signatures dropping when they are near death proves this.

So the few moves he used (6-7) is Naruto not low on chakra? Lol

Obviously not. The attacks he was using are attacks stronger than anything else he's ever used during the Madara or Kaguya fights, not to mention he was using the Kurama Avatar this time around, and he was cloning it, which evenly splits chakra, so he was using more chakra now than he did before.

I was saying those moves caused him to be low now, not that he was low then.

Except they didn't, as I've said above. If Naruto is low on chakra, he wouldn't be using Kurama Avatar clones, and spamming Bijuu Dama.

The rest of that chakra (whatever amount it was) was enough to put kurama to sleep since he would be out of chakra by then, so no Kurama was still low or still recovering from past fights of using chakra. That explosion didn't result in Kurama losing this large amount of chakra.

The rest of that chakra was ALL of his chakra, so no there isn't any evidence that it was a small amount. If he had lost chakra, it was from the Sasuke fight, as Naruto used Kurama Mode the whole time, but never used Kurama Mode against Kaguya or Madara. The only thing he lent power to Naruto for was Bijuu Dama Rasen Shuriken.

Please explain why Naruto could not charge LRS(since LRS is made from son's chakra) with NE if he had more chakra that was used up from previous fights.

Because he formed those attacks from the Nature Energy he gathered from the Earth, as the manga shows.

It obviously speculation when the circumstances that brought this fight are having Naruto being less on chakra then what he is normally is capable of. Basically Naruto has been fighting a gauntlet.

You guys seem to believe that Naruto not having his full amount of chakra has any bearing on his strongest move, not when he borrows Bijuu Chakra. Not when he took in ALL OF THE NE ON THE PLANET to use his final attack. Its crazy that you guys think Naruto can top an attack using all of the Nature Energy on the planet.

AlphaScythian · Oct 30, 2014

LOL 4 weeks of nardo fans at damage control now GG

V h o · Oct 30, 2014

I really don't want to quote the rest of this stuff above this, so I'm going to just stick to what I mainly was concerned about below. Sorry.

Because he formed those attacks from the Nature Energy he gathered from the Earth, as the manga shows.

So why can't he charge LRS with NE? Is NE forbidden to be used on LRS?

You guys seem to believe that Naruto not having his full amount of chakra has any bearing on his strongest move, not when he borrows Bijuu Chakra. Not when he took in ALL OF THE NE ON THE PLANET to use his final attack. Its crazy that you guys think Naruto can top an attack using all of the Nature Energy on the planet.

What panel said the bold? If he took all the NE on the planet then I will concede this entire thing.

KidGamer65 · Oct 30, 2014