To Everyone Saying Tsunade Is Underrated- Just No.

Booker · Apr 27, 2013

KingHashirama said:
Jiraiya not being Hokage is him knowing which is the best option. He knows Tsunade is better then him. HELL SHES PROVEN IT OVER AND OVER.

Who was the one who got them victory in the war? TSUNADE
Who is the one who created the medical system? Tsunade
Who is the one who nearly killed Jiraiya as kids? TSUNADE
Who is the one punch K.O person of the 3 sanin? Tsunade

And actually the only reason Naruto won is due to Jiraiya , Tsunade, Shikamaru and etc. Just letting you know. oh and also, old sage frog Ma and Pa.

Only reason Itachi is relevent is due to the plot, only reason Hashirama was the first Hokage due to the plot, only reason SO6P was the first shinobi due to the plot. EVERYTHING IS DUE TO THE PLOT.

how the hell do you teleport force? Shinra tensei is just a invisible force pushing you.. Minato wouldn't even have a chance at that. Hell all the people Tsunade saved would've been DEAD.

And Tsunade already had a plan.. to retreat NARUTO BACK. But what happens when the traitor is in your own village? oh yea you get betrayed. Don't blame shit on Tsunade when shes the only reason the K 11 and other konoha ninja are even alive.

Everyone, KingHashirama, the base's own "special" user!

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Your Creepy Stalker · Apr 27, 2013

She did nothing exept save 90% of the leaf village during pains attack, The previouse hokeages couldnt stand up to pain either, exept maybye hashirama, and i would argue that he can beat hashi anyway.
Besides, you proove yourself wrong by overhyping tsunade's faliures, thus underrating her and causing your entire thread to be wrong. Logical paradoxes. Only thing better than comparing you, accurately, to hitler.

Booker · Apr 27, 2013

Cowthulhu45 said:
She did nothing exept save 90% of the leaf village during pains attack, The previouse hokeages couldnt stand up to pain either, exept maybye hashirama, and i would argue that he can beat hashi anyway.
Besides, you proove yourself wrong by overhyping tsunade's faliures, thus underrating her and causing your entire thread to be wrong. Logical paradoxes. Only thing better than comparing you, accurately, to hitler.

I said she sucked.

That's not underrating if it's true.

Keep trying to be smart though, it's cute to watch you try.

Zyael · Apr 27, 2013

I agree with you Immortal Itachi. Never really saw her as strong and she is the weakest Hokage because mostly she is dealing with prodigies. But she has accomplished a lot for the village and is great medical ninja. She makes the right decisions as a Hokage(besides letting J-man go :c) and keeps the village under control. It's not really her fault that she has to deal with many problems left from previous Hokage. But still I liked this thread and good job c:

aimop95 · Apr 27, 2013

So her only big explosive and impressive jutsu is punching the ground with one finger that creates massive craters.

And she sucks as a ninja?

Joshutsu · Apr 27, 2013

xKuzur said:
I agree with you Immortal Itachi. Never really saw her as strong and she is the weakest Hokage because mostly she is dealing with prodigies. But she has accomplished a lot for the village and is great medical ninja. She makes the right decisions as a Hokage(besides letting J-man go :c) and keeps the village under control. It's not really her fault that she has to deal with many problems left from previous Hokage. But still I liked this thread and good job c:

Letting Jiraya go was for the best, him going or not going would not have prevented them from coming to the leaf. Though he died her sending him got them very important intel which was a great help.

I agree with your other points though, the other hokage never served in such a time as this i think Tsunade has had it the hardest.

Horus · Apr 27, 2013

Nagato Revived the DEAD Villagers.
Tsunade Healed And Protected Thousands Of Villagers.
Tsunade is Probably the Most Underrated Character On this Site!
Her Underestimation Gets to the Point where its Just Ridiculous.
She Can Instantly Kill An opponent With One Hit, She Can Render then Useless Also.
Without Jiraya's Sent Information, Naruto Would Not Been Alive At the Moment.
I Doubt Any Of the Other Hokages Could Have Dealt With Pein's Attack, Except Hashirama...
And FYI, She is in the Top 20...

Slug Princess Tsunade · Apr 27, 2013

Dafuq did I just read? Man, I have an advice: reread the manga.

Booker · Apr 27, 2013

Slug Princess Tsunade said:
Dafuq did I just read? Man, I have an advice: reread the manga.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Tsunade is a joke. Sure she has a 1-hit kill move; but any shinobi with a brain and mediocre speed is going to dodge it. She's not top 20 material, and is the weakest Kage ever right after Mei.

KingHashirama · Apr 27, 2013

Immortal Itachi said:
Sorry, but you're wrong.

Tsunade is a joke. Sure she has a 1-hit kill move; but any shinobi with a brain and mediocre speed is going to dodge it. She's not top 20 material, and is the weakest Kage ever right after Mei.

Thats why she blitzed Kabuto . Who is a 3.5 speed.

Mediocre is 3. 0 =]. Know your manga before you insult a character.

And yea shes better then the guy with the 2.5 stamina (Itachi)

Booker · Apr 27, 2013

KingHashirama said:
Thats why she blitzed Kabuto . Who is a 3.5 speed.

Mediocre is 3. 0 =]. Know your manga before you insult a character.

And yea shes better then the guy with the 2.5 stamina (Itachi)

Where does it say 3 medicore? Proof or GTFO.

Besides, my argument here is she isn't even top 20. Show me her blitzing someone not from Part 1 and then you'll have an argument.

And if you think she beats Itachi, well then you're just embarrassing yourself in front of everyone.

Space Cowboy · Apr 27, 2013

KingHashirama said:
Thats why she blitzed Kabuto . Who is a 3.5 speed.

Mediocre is 3. 0 =]. Know your manga before you insult a character.

And yea shes better then the guy with the 2.5 stamina (Itachi)

How in the name of god does she beat Itachi?

Tazzilla88 · Apr 27, 2013

Let's do this, I'm guessing my responses cannot and will not fit into this post

Immortal Itachi said:
It was stated in the past that the Hokage is the strongest in the Hidden Leaf Village.

Even assuming Tsunade was the strongest in the village, which she wasn't, let's take a look at her role as Hokage.

The major event that happened in Tsunade's "reign" was Pain's attack on the village.

Naturally, the Hokage, as the strongest in the village, should be able to contend with a threat like this and protect the village, right?

Well, all previous Hokage could have. But Tsunade just about did nothing. She did absolutely nothing to contend with Pain, and even her slug summon didn't do it's job, as hundreds of villagers perished until Nagato revived them. Then, naturally, she went into a coma.

NARUTO of all people had to step up to deal with the threat of Pain.

This alone should show you she isn't underrated at all; In fact, she doesn't even deserve a top 20 spot.

Let's move on to her other "accomplishment" which was "contending" with Madara.

People like to bring up this instance to show that she can contend with other Top 5 characters. But that argument is just ridiculous.

Tsunade had the assistance of 4 REAL Kage level allies, and still ended up being cut in half.

The 3 Sannin being equal to each other argument is laughable. Jiraiya and Orochimaru are so far past Tsunade it's not even funny. (Gee, I guess the parrallels to Team 7 do hold true...). Sage Mode Jiraiya completely poops on Tsunade, and Orochimaru turns her into a joke as well.

Her Creation Rebirth is somewhat impressive... That is, until it runs out and she's left in a coma again. Outlasting her Creation Rebirth would be a cinch for any of the Top 20 prospects, so that isn't helping her here.

My point is that Tsunade isn't underrated; in fact, she is mostly overrated.

With nothing in her arsenal except mediocre speed, Impressive (although risky) healing, and big-boom punches, she does not live up to her Hokage title nor her Sannin Title.

Get it together, Tsunade.

Hmm where to start. Tsunade's job in the Pein arc was not to fight Pein. It was very evidently a job for Naruto. Thus that is the reason she told him to train instead of moping around and the reason that her first instinct was to bring Naruto back to fight Pein. She decided to take the support role of literally protecting the welfare of the citizens and leave the offense up to Naruto which would have been a great game plan had Danzo not have killed the toad who was supposed to get Naruto.
Also bearing in mind how little information on pein they had beforehand launching a full on strike by Tsunade would have been reckless because if she was taken down there would have been no one to heal and protect the villagers. Furthermore a part of not having knowledge then included not having knowledge that he had a jutsu strong enough to demolish konoha. Because how could she know that, the information Jiraiya specifically went to get was not very specific. It didn't talk about powerlevels or any such things. Though what it did do was it allowed her to know that the real one wasn't there and thus fighting them would not have served a real purpose if they are just puppets with their master pulling the strings. And think about that, because Nagato has every path he very well could have simply brought back his paths after Naruto defeated all of them. And Naruto would have been screwed. The strategy she employed was therefore the best strategy in that scenario.
Also let's discuss Tsunade's arsenal: Tsunade's Speed and Reflexes:

Most people think that Tsunade is slow and sluggish. In fact, people often think her affinity to slugs make her slow. They bring in databook numbers to say that she is slow. So I will actually bring her feats into play here.
when Tsunade shoves Gamabunta's sword into Manda's mouth I'd call that a speed of feat. Thinking Logically about the feat Manda went underground and blitzed Gamabunta. Neither Gamabunta nor Jiraiya had time to react. It would make no logical sense for Tsunade to be in the air with the sword with no target as she has not the ability to hover. Therefore, she must have jumped and reacted after Manda appeared above ground and managed to attack him with such accuracy coming from off panel.

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When Tsunade threw herself in front of Orochimaru's blade that was a feat of speed . And considering Jiraiya was only able to to form a single handseal before Oro's blade struck Tsunade and no one even thought it was capable to get in the way judging by their shocked faces yet Tsunade did.

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And when Tsunade attacked Orochimaru I'd consider that a feat of speed considering Orochimaru was paying close enough attention to her he could tell her trembling had stopped yet he was completely unprepared for Tsunade's kick.

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When Madara was attacking the 5 kage with his Katon none of the kages were able to react in time not even A. Yet Tsunade not only saw the attack but was able to respond as well.

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When Tsunade blitzed Shizune, Shizune had no way of reacting in fact she was completely caught off guard.

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And Tsunade was able to use her speed to avoid Naruto's attacks without much effort.

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And Tsunade literally blitzed Kabuto in the time it took to push up his glasses.

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She was also able to blitz the advisers as well

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In addition the her and A were able to completely approach Bee and Naruto in such a quick manner neither Bee nor Naruto saw it coming and had the kages wanted to they could've blitzed the jinchuurikis.

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Furthermore in the time it takes Raikage to punch in his V1 form Tsunade has already began running implying that she is not slow.

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The fact that her speed was compared to A's is a great thing. No she is not in his speed range, but being compared to the second fastest character alive would she's not slow, the same way Raikage's strength in comparison to the strongest character alive does not make him weak.

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When Kabuto was attacking Tsunade is was a fact that Tsunade had been out of battle many years. It was a fact that she had not been resting. It was also a fact that she was holding back based on her not using Katsuyu or Creation Rebirth.

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Even still, Tsunade was able to react very well defensively.

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And Tsunade was able to blitz Jiraiya and force Kabuto into a position in which he could not avoid taking damage and thus he had to resort to exploiting her hemophobia.

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Additionally in her fight against Madara, Madara had her taking one 5 autonomous clones of himself wrapped in Susanoo. Meaning they had the sharingan precognition and the rinnegan shared vision yet Tsunade was still able to get behind a clone and incapacitated it. And because each kage received 5 clones to fight, yet we only see four in the picture two of which are definitely left standing behind Tsunade, another is ambigously farther away either collapsed on top of a stone sharing a fate similar to the clone in front of Tsunade or unable to close the distance. We can reason that she had incapacitated at least two clones.

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We again saw Tsunade's reflexes during Madara's attack when Madara was using his perfect Susanoo Tsunade had started another jutsu.

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In addition she was able to coordinate a joint attack with Mei, A, and Oonoki when A was in his raiton armor.

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Orochimaru and Kabuto were nearly blitzed together in Tsunade's initial up front attack they narrowly escaped death.

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Tsunade also managed to blitz Madara with him being not only completely caught off guard but incapable of preparing his counter attack before Tsunade's attack landed.

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Even in a fatigued state so great that she was moments away from going into a coma she managed to beat anbu to Pein.

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Additionally, Tsunade's hands moved fast enough that not only was she able to disarm and neutralize Naruto but pickpocket him and hide away his wallet all without being seen in the action, while intoxicated.

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And when Pein was about to attack with Asura's path Tsunade's arm had already risen, which means logically she could have simply struck the blizting Asura path. So she was a victim of plot no jutsu and fatigue

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Even when distracted and drunk, Tsunade was able to respond to what she thought was a fully powered rasengan using only one finger.

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Tsunade's Strength and battle prowess:

Tsunade has proven that she is physically the strongest character in Naruto. She accomplishes this in two ways. She uses medical ninjutsu to create chakra explosions.

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and due to the explanation given of the medical ninjutsu strength we can reason that lifting, maneuvering and pulling attacks we were shown were accomplished through natural strength.

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I though will provide more examples of her strength though.
The wall in Tanzuku town crumbled when Tsunade struck it.

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With one finger Tsunade split the ground leaving a crevice so large that Naruto was able to fall inside of it.

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This attack illustrates that Tsunade is willing to use shockwaves, a by product of her strength, to gain an advantage in battle. Incidently, Tsunade's shockwaves are strong enough to break through solid stone walls, in the close up you can see the damage actually extended slightly pass the walls, and in the farther shot you can see both walls to heavy damage meaning if someone was caught by her shockwaves instead of her direct strength they would still take great damage and possibly even suffer death.

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Another byproduct of Tsunade's strength is a change in environment. This change, makes opponent's whose moves are swifter than Tsunade a risk to use because of uneven footing. Tsunade though has shown that she is adept at maneuvering even in such circumstances.

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Tsunade has also proven that she is willing to use her environment to aid her in battle and is willing to use the resources available to her to claim victory. By extension she could use the aftermath of her strength i.e. rocks and boulders as projetiles, and as MLB players can pitch with speeds over 100 miles per hour I imagine that the speed of Tsunade's projectiles would be much higher given her strength..

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Furthermore, Tsunade does not only attack with brute strength but also in ways specific to medical ninjas. Such as targeting pressure points and forcing involuntary reactions.

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She uses medical ninjutsu to scatter brain signals and she uses medical ninjutsu directly as an agent of death.

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Tsunade should have a method of fighting similar to Kabuto as she made a comparison between his fighting style and hers. As Tsunade's style of fighting is so radically different she couldn't make a valid comparison unless she use a method of attack similar to Kabuto. She's proven that PTS Kabuto's strength is no where near her past prime strength (not just physically but all around as a ninja) thus it only stands to reason she was referring to using medical ninjutsu offensively. Even the way the statement was phrased in that it was prefaced to him being a medical ninja before finishing the statement suggests that the following was related to him being a medical ninja.

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As one can pierce organs without piercing the skin it is reasonable with medical ninjutsu she can pierce the skin without touching the person

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Tsunade taught Sakura how to pick up on an opponents method of fighting and alter your own to better defend, and by extension attack

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. Additionally Tsunade either has a great sense of hearing or a great sense of sight, that we know when she could immediately tell that Orochimaru's heart beat was irregular.

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More likely hearing as she later listened to Naruto's hearbeat. How does this have battle application? If you can hear your opponent they won't sneak up on you unless they are faster than the speed of sound. And if you can hear your opponents heart, you can judge when they are about to make a big move or strike because their heart pumps more blood to prepare for such an attack. And the lungs tend to take in more air to brace itself.

Tsunade's Intelligence:

Needless to say Tsunade is intelligent. For instance, before the battle with Orochimaru she poisoned Jiraiya to make sure he did not interfere with any of her decisions.

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She opted to end Orochimaru subtly with a sneak attack than a large time consuming showdown

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Tsunade is able to understand how motivation affects people and their performance on the battlefield.

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While Tsunade is an emotional person, she is able to rationalize and objectively analyze situations.

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Tsunade can reason on the motives of her enemies and spot traps ahead of time.

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Tsunade here indicates that she didn't just stick Yamato with team Kakashi for kicks and giggles nor just because of him being powerful, but also because he mokuton includes Chakra suppression.

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Tsunade also shows that she knew that if the Hidden Leaf really crumbled then Naruto would be in grave danger, thus he had to fight to defend it if he had any chance in being safe.

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In stressful situations Tsunade has managed to provide quick leadership the has a solid plan of defense. And she knew a means to hand out information instanteously is paramount. And therefore, she knows the value of information and thus would strive to obtain it through whatever means necessary.

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Tsunade has also shown her ability to think up counters to enemies unusual abilities once she has information on them.

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As opposed to most people Tsunade was able to perceive that Pein was about to launch a large scale attack.

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Tsunade also realizes when desperate measures demand an all out attack. Even out thinking Shikaku in this regard.

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Tsunade was able to out think Raikage and perceive what Naruto experienced before he told them.

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Tsunade's rules for medical nin highlights her knowledge of battle strategy.

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And we see while the medical ninja is supposed to be the last on the team to die in battle in the case against Tsunade. She intends to allow the kage to make a comeback by healing them allowing them to protect the shinobi world

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Tsunade also managed to set a trap for Madara, that Madara did not expect

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Tsunade's Durability and Stamina:

She arrived and used

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. When she used creation Rebirth against Orochimaru it ate up the

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.
She then

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Oonoki and Gaara and replenished chakras.
She then

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Mei and replenished her chakra.
She then used

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and

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Madara.
She then regenerated from the

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sword
She then

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from three

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She then regenerated from at least two more

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while immobilizing two of them.
She then

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more chakra to Oonoki so he could use his biggest Jinton yet
She then tanked the damage of a

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that was meant to kill 5 people.
Tsunade was apparently also bisected by mokuton. Even in the bisected state however, she is apparently capable of returning to one piece. And is still able to use jutsus.

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Sword of Kusanagi

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Cut abdomen and Bicep Muscles

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Cut Respiratory Muscles

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Shinra Tensei Fully Powered

Here she is healing the village and the seal in unbroken.

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Here she is talking to Pein after she's healed the village. The seal is still unbroken (using multiple pictures to show its not a mistake like when Kishi accidently gave raikage back his arm)

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(it looks as though Tsunade was about to fight him based on what the Anbu said)

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This is Tsunade chasing after Pein to stop him, making her closer to the initial point of contact for Shinra Tensei FP - seal unbroken

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This is Tsunade after she's realized he's got more up his sleeves than what has already been used the seal is still unbroken (using this picture to show that Tsunade isn't running away from the epicenter of Shinra Tensei in the picture above)

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This is Tsunade after Shinra Tensei hits -no seal
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What's even more impressive is that she didn't use Creation Rebirth on herself as she's bleeding.
Tsunade used Katsuya to protect the other villagers but there is not Katsuyu with her.

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Bearing in mind Tsunade has already expended a lot of chakra to heal the villagers, then tanking a full Shinra Tensei up close in personal is quite a feat.
And she had the stamina to climb from under the collaspbed building and beat the Anbu to the scene

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before ... being blitzed.
So My point being after healing the village, and summoning Katsuyu (which as Jiraiya and Naruto showed us requires a bit of chakra to summon large creatures)

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she tanked Shinra Tensei and rehealed the village.

And those are not even her greatest stamina feats when you think deeply on the matter in fact the greatest stamina feat of all will appear in the Katsuyu section.

Katsuyu's abilities:

Of the main summons of the sannin Gamabunta is the smallest summon.

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Right now what I want to highlight is the size of the summons. They are the size of tailed beasts. As I am not a fan of relative size comparison as that's often inconsistent in the manga and inconsistent based on which area we are looking from. So I wish to start the comparison with direct comparisons of size.
when Gamabunta is put directly next to the nine tails their size is very similar

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when Gamabunta is put next to Shukaku they are the roughly same size.

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So then Katsuyu too is the size of a bijuu. Her arsenal is designed to be a support defense summon more than it's designed to be an offense based summon. In her arsenal there is her ability to quickly spit acid over a wide area. An acid so strong it quickly melts through rock.

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in addition she is able to divide into thousands of herselves. Now thousands may seem like an exaggeration of her abilities and before the War arc I would have agreed I would have said hundreds. But consider this Konoha is the military city in the Fire Country. (I mean for all intensive purposes the actual heads of state do nothing) Konoha houses the majority of the fire country's shinobi as Tsunade is in charge of the fire country's shinobi. The joint allied shinobi forces total 80k people. Among that you have shinobi from each of the five villages and samurai. There are probably less samurai than everyone else but for the sake of skepticism let's say that every put equal amounts into the army. 80000/6 would be 13, 333 people. It is konoha policy not to allow genins in war. Which would mean they're shinobi force would probably be around 14 thousand. Now in order to be a shinobi, they would need to get missions. The person who receives missions to give is the hokage. So it's safe to assume all shinobi either live in or near konoha for the sake of their livelihoods. We must also take into account that not everyone in konoha is a shinobi. There are shop keepers such as the ramen guy. There are various merchants, tailors, bankers, inn keepers and so forth. So let's continue to be skeptical and say that because konoha is mostly a military based city that there are only about 6 thousand civilians. ( Which is low balling it. I think. I think what Konoha has is a lot like what DC, and other nation's capitols have. Higher standards of living bring more people. And Higher standards of living seem to exist in the larger cities) So now we've agreed upon the conservative number of 20,000 people in or close to Konoha. Tsunade expected Katsuyu to attach herself to every villager and shinobi.

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now obviously Katsuyu wasn't entirely successful in her task as 1. Nagato had to resurrect some. (though we do have to take into account a lot of people have died before Katsuyu got there like Kakashi or sometimes there was nothing that could be done like when Pein soul ripped shizune). and 2 we know she didn't reach every one as Tsunade said Katsuyu is attending to the majority of the villagers

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Which even with our conservative number would leave over 10 thousand people with Katsuyu. Even divided in such a state, some minis were still larger than people. And here comes the stamina feat I was talking about earlier. Tsunade poured her chakra into that many clones to heal all those thousands of people when canonically healing requires a lot of chakra. A seemingly coorelated ability of Katsuyu is that she appears to not be harmed by cutting based attacks.

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In addition she has an innate durability. Having been able to protect people from Shinra Tensei and being able to withstand Naruto's chakra cloak.

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Now some would argue that Katsuyu did not in fact experience the corrosive effects of the nine tails chakra. Why do they argue this? Because Naruto is not naked. They argue that if his clothes survived it then Katsuyu must have been protected by his clothes. A strange argument to me. But we find that the manga tries to avoid jutsus making character naked. For instance, Choji can expand to gigantic proportions and his clothes fit him. Tsunade tanked Madara's katon and stayed intact. Suigetsu sometimes switches to a water form and still keeps his clothes on. So I find the argument that the clothes protected her invalid. Furthermore to reinforce my point, Naruto's skin was still ripped of as according to Jiraiya the blood is what aids in the redness in color and the chakra had to pass through his clothes. Now note that at 4 tails Naruto chakra was corrosive enough to quickly burn completely through Orochimaru's snakes.

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. And Katsuyu has a few more useful abilities that are worth mentioning. It's been said that she's protected villagers. And the way she was able to do that was by enveloping them. In that instance, this ability was used as defensive move. It can be offensive as well considering she was able to envelop the people in the room fast enough that there was not time to object or fight back.

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. In such an instance no jutsus that require handseals could be performed as the enemies body would be restricted from moving. She however, also splits into even smaller versions of herself.

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These minis can stay in your clothes. Why is this helpful? Because Katsuyu can use chakra, and because she can heal it logically follows that she can insert chakra. Likewise chakra can be inserted into her. Thereby creating a safety net for genjutsus. But like her last ability this ability to can be offensive. As Tsunade can channel medical ninjutsu through her it stands to reason that should Tsunade change the intent of the medical ninjutsu (By changing the intent and the way you are using your chakra it would seem that medical ninjutsu can be used to heal or harm.)

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I can see Tsunade enacting this jutsu while multitasking as she always holds the jutsu that keeps her looking young, while using augmented monster strength, while using forbidden jutsus, or how she keeps up her technique while she heals. If such a thing happens that could potentially be a death jutsu. Katsuyu's use in terms of intel. She is able to transmit information as soon as one of her minis knows something
In addition to the obvious fact that Katsuyu can crush people. Given the crushing power of this mini katsuyu it only stands to reason the a full sized katsuyu would be much more deadly.

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And finally, Tsunade can seeming sense what Katsuyu sees

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Immortal Itachi said:
I just can't get over you saying being Hokage doesn't mean you're the strongest.

It's STATED in the manga.

The death tolls were far higher under her lead, and she isn't even a great military leader. Naruto had to show up to save her ass.

Sure, the other Hokage had deaths. That's to be expected. The difference is though, they actually eliminated the threat the village was facing.

How do you know the death toll was much higher? The collateral damage (i.e. the buildings) was much higher. But how can you say more people lost their lives in the Pein attack? The nine tails attack was so bad that every one hated Naruto as a result of it.

Immortal Itachi said:
You're missing the point, Jiraiya SHOULD have been Hokage, but that just didn't fly with Kishi. The only reason Tsunade was Hokage was because of plot.

Haha you're a dense one, huh?

Here's a question: If somebody takes the ACT for me, do I get their score? Obviously not, so why should Tsunade get credit for Naruto's work? lol

On top of that, all the the Kage elminated the THREATS. After they all had their respective fight, did the attack continue? No. In all instances the threat and attack was currently eliminated.

All the kages eliminated their threats? Madara says what? Obito says what? Uchiha clan said what? Orochimaru attacked the village twice?
Also protecting the village is not like the ACT, the ACT is not a team effort in which the team leader can use its members as tools. Which is why that comparison doesn't work they are different examples by the very nature of themselves. If you remember Hiruzen didn't single handedly stop the entire attack on Konoha. Naruto had to take on Shukaku. So let's not give Hiruzen credit for stopping Orochimaru's attack. And Jiraiya had to stop the giant snakes. And while Minato tried to fight Obito and didn't actually neutralize that threat, he had the village specifically the third working to hold off the nine tails. A team effort but then since we don't like giving people credit then let's not give the 4th credit for the nine tails attack because by the time he came to stop the nine tails, the nine tails was out of the village. My point being by the logic of protecting the village being an individual job then that most hokages didn't work alone to stop a threat.

Also had Jiraiya been hokage, Naruto would not have gotten sage mode and to be honest might never have gotten past part 1. Kakashi would never have been healed. Neither would Sasuke. And if you think a decree from the hokage would have gotten the formerly cynical Tsunade there, then you don't know her character well at all. In fact, Jiraiya was already in the village before Orochimaru's attack, knew the third was looking for him, and made sure the third didn't find out he was in town. So he's partially at fault for the Third's demise had he made his presence clear he may have been able to team up with the third to take Orochimaru down for the count. He is intelligent but he is also brash. What he realized while being beaten to death he could have realized upon reflection and with the body he had konoha could have pieced together more about Pein's abilities had he chosen to escape. And now let's say that he was hokage and Tsunade never returned to the leaf village. What exactly does anyone do about Chou Shinra Tensei because he can't stop it or even protect the citizens from it like Katsuyu did. His toads could be one shotted again. His sage mode form would be defeated as soon as Deva got serious.

Also let's fastfoward to the war arc assuming the leaf somehow managed to survive Pein's attack. How would Jiraiya get to the battlefield. Once he's there what could he do about Oonoki and Gaara who were out of steam. And what about when Mei was in need of healing. So it would have been A and Jiraiya vs Madara and if you think the 5 kage were easily dispatched of then you should see how fast the A and Jiraiya combo would have been taken out. And that's still dependent on Jiraiya making it to the battlefield. Furthermore, without Tsunade, Sakura would have been killed by Zetsu and the army still wouldn't know how the enemy infiltrated camps. Futhermore, without Tsunade Sasori would have still been a problem, without Tsunade Kakashi wouldn't be in the war. The past hokages wouldn't be on their way to help, it's only because of she made Sasuke better that the past hokage are brought back. Additionally, without the information about Zetsu the jiinchuuriki and the kage would have fought. Him being hokage would have been bad for the village Tsunade was the better choice here.

Immortal Itachi said:
Well, actually that is a very well worded statement. I'd go along with it, except for one thing.

We can't claim it was just because of plot, because we've never actually seen evidence that Tsunade could contend with Pain. What's she going to do? Punch him to death?

Jiraiya not being Hokage on the other hand is a victim of plot. We know he had the skill had ability to be Hokage, Kishimoto just couldn't have that for the story.

As I've demonstrated he would have been a better hokage than Tsunade.

Joshutsu · Apr 27, 2013

Immortal Itachi said:
Where does it say 3 medicore? Proof or GTFO.

Besides, my argument here is she isn't even top 20. Show me her blitzing someone not from Part 1 and then you'll have an argument.

And if you think she beats Itachi, well then you're just embarrassing yourself in front of everyone.

Feats are feats. it doesn't matter whether she blitzed someone in part 1 or 2. Show me your top 20 list. inb4 a bunch of dead people fill up the high slots

Tazzilla88 · Apr 27, 2013

Immortal Itachi said:
(1) This tech barely lasted 10 minutes against Kabuto and Orochimaru.
(2) Who cares? Jiraiya's speed allows him to dodge her everytime until she runs out.
(3) Wouldn't happen, Tsunade doesn't have a prayer of hitting Jiraiya. Also he could just use Lions Mane and impale her.

Tsunade wouldn't even use that right off the bat, so any of those techs I mentioned one shots her.

Also Tsunade has no counter to a Frog Eso****us/Sage Mode/Frog Song combo, so that's an automatic loss there.

Did I mention she can't even hit Jiraiya?

What's any Hokage's plan against that tech? Lol there isn't one. But they would've done a helluva lot better than some old lady that punches stuff.

(Btw, Minato could arguably S/T barrier a portion of Shinra Tensei)

Cool thanks, fixed it.

So you don't know what anyone could have done against Shinra Tensei but it would have been better than saving the majority of citizens? Let's analyze that claim.
Chou Shinra Tensei is a 360 attack.
So let's say Minato puts up a barrier the size of the TBB he managed to teleport before. That still leaves about 90% of the attack unstopped. In which case a lot more people die than in Tsunade's result.
Let's say the Third Hokage was Hokage at this point he and all the villagers die he has nothing in his arsenal to stop that.
The second hokage as well couldn't hope to stop that attack with water wall or with a teleportation jutsu unless he has one that covers all angles.
The first, His wood could be blown away and possibly hurt citizens. And due the scale of his larger attacks fighting in the village would have been to dangerous for the village anyways.
Jiraiya would have been killed right there. Of all the hokages and all kages except maybe, MAYBE the kazekages she has the best answer to that jutsu.
Also yes in part 1 Creation Rebirth didn't last long but that is likely because it's based on how much chakra you store, and she had quit being a medical ninja in part 1 so she had no reason to have massive reserves in her forehead. Which is not whatsoever comparable to now. As shown in the stamina section.
Tsunade can't hit Jiraiya? She is fast enough to hit him. That is a manga fact

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And if he was looking directly at her peeping and she still managed to catch him though he was looking directly at her that would definitely be a better feat for Tsunade. What we can say then is that Tsunade can hit him. That's not a question.
tell me this, why would Jiraiya allow himself to almost be beat to death, like he said after that beating he was on the brink of death. What happened to him is not the same thing as Sakura hitting Naruto. Naruto is never seriously injured by Sakura. Tsunade seriously injured him to the point that he almost died. Even if he didn't fight back as hard as possible, would you believe that he didn't try his hardest to avoid Tsunade's strikes? It's not as if he didn't know about Tsunade's strength. He was her teammate and friend. Furthermore, for him to have broken rips, and both arms broken she would have needed to hit him more than once. The purpose of why the scans were written though isn't relevant to the fact of what I am highlighting. That he would be hit by Tsunade. That he's not so fast that she would not be able to touch him.
Also consider this Jiraiya at most has only summoned one toad. It's very possible that he can only summon one large toad if he plans to go into sage mode. Anything more might deplete too much of his reserves to enter sage mode as it is a fact that both sage mode and summoning requires large amounts of chakra.
Furthermore, you bring up his hair but unless he's using them as senbon he puts himself in the same scenario Orochimaru did when he grabbed her with his tongue. She could probably beat Base Jiraiya. But Sage Mode comes with the added problem of Goemon and frog song. So no he's not vastly superior to her. There are ways around Goemon. But Frog song is what would make her lose. And that's only if he has knowledge as he doesn't usually decapitate people which is what would be necessary.
Furthermore, against Madara the moment she decided to actively engage in the battle instead of being support she used byakugou. And her plan for going to the battlefield creation rebirth.

KingHashirama · Apr 27, 2013

Immortal Itachi said:
Where does it say 3 medicore? Proof or GTFO.

Besides, my argument here is she isn't even top 20. Show me her blitzing someone not from Part 1 and then you'll have an argument.

And if you think she beats Itachi, well then you're just embarrassing yourself in front of everyone.

She blitzed Madara and took off half of his torso.

Do you even know what Mediocre is?

And oh yea I forgot to mention, Kabuto took super soldier pills to even have a chance against Tsunade lmaoo. And was getting his ass kicked.

Space Cowboy said:
How in the name of god does she beat Itachi?

1 vs 1 doesn't determine prowess. Fact is she could do more then Itachi. If you put Itachi in Tsunade's place in the war.. the 5 Kage would've been a joke. You people put Itachi VS ____ and say "tsukuyomi solos" or "amaterasu".. fact is people can avoid them.. Itachi is just like Nagato, If people don't know about their techniques they have the upper hand. Otherwise they really aren't that much.

Murasame · Apr 27, 2013

KingHashirama said:
She blitzed Madara and took off half of his torso.

Do you even know what Mediocre is?

And oh yea I forgot to mention, Kabuto took super soldier pills to even have a chance against Tsunade lmaoo. And was getting his ass kicked.

1 vs 1 doesn't determine prowess. Fact is she could do more then Itachi. If you put Itachi in Tsunade's place in the war.. the 5 Kage would've been a joke. You people put Itachi VS ____ and say "tsukuyomi solos" or "amaterasu".. fact is people can avoid them.. Itachi is just like Nagato, If people don't know about their techniques they have the upper hand. Otherwise they really aren't that much.

Actually Naruto defeated Kabuto.. Tsunade got defeated by part 1 Kabuto she had to get saved by naruto and it doesn't really matter if he took pills it doesn't put him anywhere near the top characters in part 1. Also the Madara she decapitated was a wood clone.. get your facts straight.

What does that have anything to do with how a battle would go? She was better suited to support the 4 kages against Madara because she was a medical nin. But as I said that's irrelevant because if we go by your logic then she's better than Minato, Jiraiya, Oro, and countless others. Itachi>Tsunade in a fight.

The Work · Apr 27, 2013

Man Tsunade couldn't take on Pain

So I could care less about her

Draphsin · Apr 27, 2013

I think tsunade is in a good spot, there arent many fanboys tarnishing her name and she seems evenly rated to me

Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg · Apr 27, 2013

KingHashirama said:
Thats why she blitzed Kabuto . Who is a 3.5 speed.

Mediocre is 3. 0 =]. Know your manga before you insult a character.

And yea shes better then the guy with the 2.5 stamina (Itachi)

that's a different story
Itachi doesn't need stamina because most of his jutsus are near uncounterable one-shot moves
also iirc Kabuto was the one who kicked Tsunade's ass

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