Timeline Proof: Shisui was the 3rd Mangekyuo User

[IKSOKRIPS]

Unfortunately its two pages that say the exact same thing, not one. The gap between part 1 and 2 is 3 years.Now:

Spoiler

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Its been 7 years, that's said in part 1.

Now, 3 years later in part 2:

Spoiler

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'Its been 10 years since Oro left'

Your timeline is out of date, edit it.
Kishi can make a mistake once, but on this point there is zero doubt. Two different manga pages say the same thing, i.e Oro left Akatsuki 7 years before part 1, or 10 years before part 2(which was 3 years later).

Same thoughts apply to that page too.

 

[iSpeak]

01) There is no more than an year in between.

Spoiler

Kakashi on the start of the series is 26 years old, which means he was born 26 years before the series start.

He was promoted to a Jōnin at age of 13.

Which means: 26 - 13 = 13, he was promoted to a Jōnin 13 years before the series start.

Naruto on the start of the series is 12 years old, which means he was born 12 years before the series start.

13 years before the series start - Kakashi was promoted to a Jōnin on the mission to the Kannabi Bridge, where Obito "died".

12 years before the series start - Naruto is born. Obito attacks the Leaf.

How much years are in between?

Trust me, I have already worked everything out and have already seen people post that calculation many times.
There is a common misconception though, it was never stated Kakashi was promoted at age 13 nor was it stated he is the same age as Obito (I have checked everywhere in both the Manga and Databook).

Kakashi: Graduated from the academy age 5
Became Chunnin at age 6

Obito: Graduated from the academy age 9
Became Chunnin at age 11

But they were both in the chuunin exams together as seen in Obito's flashback (proving Obito and Kakashi were both genin together).
So at the absolute minimum, Obito is 3 years older than Kakashi (since the difference between Kakashi's chunnin age and Obito's academy grad age is 3) but more than likely 4 years older from looking at it.

Meaning Kakashi was 9 or 10 during Kakashi Gaiden (when he became Jonin).
Meaning 4 or 5 years had passed from Kakashi gaiden to Obito fighting Minato.
Meaning Obito was 17 or 18 when he fought Minato.
Meaning the 3rd Shinobi war continued for 3 or 4 years after Kakashi Gaiden (from working out Itachi's age at the time of the war and when the 9 tails attacked Konoha).

02) Itachi joining Akatsuki, before the Uchiha Massacre, was always a Fan thing, a theory, an excuse for what Akatsuki said at their meeting about the time of Orochimaru's departure from the organisation.

It was never stated in the Manga as so. Plus, in these reasent Chapters we have new prove of that he joined Akatsuki after the Uchiha Massacre.

Mind Hiruzen's words.

Spoiler

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It was stated in part 1 that Oro left 7 years ago, and stated again in part 2 (which is 3 years later) that Oro left 10 years ago. Doubt Kishi would make the same mistake twice.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Same thoughts apply to that page too.

Lol man, you can't ignore the manga on two different occasions.

Look, a lot of your timeline minus this discrepancy makes sense. Start over, since as you yourself say Hiruzen's statement proves that Itachi joined Akatsuki after massacring the Uchiha. There would be like 4 or 5 edits to your overall timeline imo. The only real problem i see with all this is that Itachi becomes very young at the time of the massacre, given he died at age 21. But then again he had help from Obito....

P.S: my take on it is that Kakashi's statement of Itachi becoming anbu captain at 13 may have been false, since that was just one manga page, while three to four different panels seem to say that Itachi left Konoha by 11.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Trust me, I have already worked everything out and have already seen people post that calculation many times.
There is a common misconception though, it was never stated Kakashi was promoted at age 13 nor was it stated he is the same age as Obito (I have checked everywhere in both the Manga and Databook).

Kakashi: Graduated from the academy age 5
Became Chunnin at age 6

Obito: Graduated from the academy age 9
Became Chunnin at age 11

But they were both in the chuunin exams together as seen in Obito's flashback (meaning Obito and Kakashi were both genin together at one point in time).
So at the very minimum, Obito is 3 years older than Kakashi (but more than likely 4 years older from looking at it).

Meaning Kakashi was 9 or 10 during Kakashi Gaiden (when he became Jonin).
Meaning 4 or 5 years had passed from Kakashi gaiden to Obito fighting Minato.
Meaning Obito was 17 or 18 when he fought Minato.
Meaning the 3rd Shinobi war continued for 3 or 4 years after Kakashi Gaiden (from working out Itachi's age at the time of the war and when the 9 tails attacked Konoha).



It was stated in part 1 that Oro left 7 years ago, and stated again in part 2 (which is 3 years later) that Oro left 10 years ago. Doubt Kishi would make the same mistake twice.

Sorry but the manga disagrees with you :

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The 3rd shinobi war ended at the end of gaiden.

 

[iSpeak]

Spoiler

Sorry but the manga disagrees with you :

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The 3rd shinobi war ended at the end of gaiden.

I don't understand... which part of that says it ended the same year?

 

[IKSOKRIPS]

Trust me, I have already worked everything out and have already seen people post that calculation many times.
There is a common misconception though, it was never stated Kakashi was promoted at age 13 nor was it stated he is the same age as Obito (I have checked everywhere in both the Manga and Databook).

Kakashi: Graduated from the academy age 5
Became Chunnin at age 6

Obito: Graduated from the academy age 9
Became Chunnin at age 11

But they were both in the chuunin exams together as seen in Obito's flashback (meaning Obito and Kakashi were both genin together at one point in time).
So at the absolute minimum, Obito is 3 years older than Kakashi (since the difference between Kakashi's chunnin age and Obito's academy grad age is 3) but more than likely 4 years older from looking at it.

Meaning Kakashi was 9 or 10 during Kakashi Gaiden (when he became Jonin).
Meaning 4 or 5 years had passed from Kakashi gaiden to Obito fighting Minato.
Meaning Obito was 17 or 18 when he fought Minato.
Meaning the 3rd Shinobi war continued for 3 or 4 years after Kakashi Gaiden (from working out Itachi's age at the time of the war and when the 9 tails attacked Konoha).



It was stated in part 1 that Oro left 7 years ago, and stated again in part 2 (which is 3 years later) that Oro left 10 years ago. Doubt Kishi would make the same mistake twice.

F**k it, I'm not arguing again for this (cuz I have literally seen it over 9000 times). Kakashi and Obito are the same age and Chapter 599 is full of mistakes. That's it.

You people just stuck to few events, that's why it seems that everything is OK. But it's not, things don't add up.

 

[iSpeak]

F**k it, I'm not arguing again for this (cuz I have literally seen it over 9000 times). Kakashi and Obito are the same age and Chapter 599 is full of mistakes. That's it.

You people just stuck to few events, that's why it seems that everything is OK. But it's not, things don't add up.

Well atleast show me where it is ever stated that Kakashi is the same age as Obito or that Kakashi became Jonin age 13, because the Manga and Databook show otherwise.

 

[NarutoKage2]

I don't understand... which part of that says it ended the same year?

It says the war ended.

@ Ikskorps: you're right. Things actually don't add up. Kishi has messed up the timeline here, for example 4 manga pages clearly show that given Itachi's age in the databook, he was 11 when he massacred the uchiha and joined akatsuki. But then Kakashi said he was 13 when he became an ANbu captain. The Kakashi/Obito age is another problem

 

[IKSOKRIPS]

Well atleast show me where it is ever stated that Kakashi is the same age as Obito or that Kakashi became Jonin age 13, because the Manga and Databook show otherwise.

I will, when you show me a page of a Manga or a Databook where it says that they are different age, exactly say that they are different age.

It's the most rational thing to say that they were the same age, when they were in the same team. Some teams do have people with different ages, but this one is most certainly not one of them.

 

[iSpeak]

I will, when you show me a page of a Manga or a Databook where it says that they are different age, exactly say that they are different age.

It's the most rational thing to say that they were the same age, when they were in the same team. Some teams do have people with different ages, but this one is most certainly not one of them.

Nope, Obito and Rin are the same age, Kakashi is younger. He was a prodigy when he was young which is why he was able to go up the ranks at a quicker age rate.

My calculations show that they are not the same age...

Are they both on the same team in the chunnin exams? Yes

Is Kakashi's chuunin age 6? Yes

Is Obito's Academy Grad age 9? Yes

So how can they possibly be the same age? These three pieces of information alone shows that Obito is at the very minimum 3 years older than Kakashi.

It says the war ended.

I know, but it doesn't say how long after it ended. 3-4 years later is when it did which is what I am trying to say.

But you and the other guy has brought up valid points about when Itachi massacred his clan so ill leave that alone.

 

[NarutoKage2]

I will, when you show me a page of a Manga or a Databook where it says that they are different age, exactly say that they are different age.

It's the most rational thing to say that they were the same age, when they were in the same team. Some teams do have people with different ages, but this one is most certainly not one of them.

And it is shown that Obito was 13 in part 1(when he supposedly died).
Kakashi was 14 when the Kyuubi attacked.
Kakashi and Obito have been stated to have been classmates/teammates. Naruto and Sasuke are teammates, they're the same age so its only logical to apply this same age bracket to these two as well. And as you say, where has it ever been stated they are of a different age?

Not to mention that its a wild stretch to say that a 10 year old Kakashi invented the chidori and got appointed a jounin.

 

[iSpeak]

And it is shown that Obito was 13 in part 1(when he supposedly died).

Yep... but this doesn't contradict what I said...

Kakashi was 14 when the Kyuubi attacked.

Yep... but this doesn't contradict what I said...

Kakashi and Obito have been stated to have been classmates/teammates. Naruto and Sasuke are teammates, they're the same age so its only logical to apply this same age bracket to these two as well. And as you say, where has it ever been stated they are of a different age?

No... and I have already proven why they aren't in my above post.

Not to mention that its a wild stretch to say that a 10 year old Kakashi invented the chidori and got appointed a jounin.

But its not a wild stretch to say that an 11 year old Itachi became anbu captain, joined an organisation of S rank ninja, easily defeated a Sannin and killed off his whole clan? (which is your theory).

 

[IKSOKRIPS]

@ Ikskorps: you're right. Things actually don't add up. Kishi has messed up the timeline here, for example 4 manga pages clearly show that given Itachi's age in the databook, he was 11 when he massacred the uchiha and joined akatsuki. But then Kakashi said he was 13 when he became an ANbu captain. The Kakashi/Obito age is another problem

And it is shown that Obito was 13 in part 1(when he supposedly died).
Kakashi was 14 when the Kyuubi attacked.
Kakashi and Obito have been stated to have been classmates/teammates. Naruto and Sasuke are teammates, they're the same age so its only logical to apply this same age bracket to these two as well. And as you say, where has it ever been stated they are of a different age?

Not to mention that its a wild stretch to say that a 10 year old Kakashi invented the chidori and got appointed a jounin.

Thanks for understanding.

The only solution is a Fourth Databook, which I really hope it does come out. . . . . . :dunno:

Nope, Obito and Rin are the same age, Kakashi is younger. He was a prodigy when he was young which is why he was able to go up the ranks at a quicker age rate.

My calculations show that they are not the same age...

Are they both on the same team in the chunnin exams? Yes

Is Kakashi's chuunin age 6? Yes

Is Obito's Academy Grad age 9? Yes

So how can they possibly be the same age? These three pieces of information alone shows that Obito is at the very minimum 3 years older than Kakashi.

As NarutoKage2 said, it's only logical for them to be the same age. It is never stated that they were different age, never. But it is logical for them to be the same age.

 

[iSpeak]

As NarutoKage2 said, it's only logical for them to be the same age. It is never stated that they were the same age, never. But it is logical for them to be the same age.

Why? Shinobi can take the ninja test at what ever age they want... no one said they need to be the same age. The fact that they were in the chunnin exam together proves that they are not the same age.

 

[NarutoKage2]

I know, but it doesn't say how long after it ended. 3-4 years later is when it did which is what I am trying to say.

But you and the other guy has brought up valid points about when Itachi massacred his clan so ill leave that alone.

Is there any evidence for the 3-4 years you bring up?

Yep... but this doesn't contradict what I said...



Yep... but this doesn't contradict what I said...



No... and I have already proven why they aren't in my above post.



But its not a wild stretch to say that an 11 year old Itachi became anbu captain, easily defeated a Sannin and killed off his whole clan? (which is your theory).

Except its not MY theory. Its what the manga and databook shows. Re read this thread and all my posts in it to get what i'm saying.

Your earlier arguments are invalid because:
Graduating the academy later just means that he graduated later. Not that he was older. He could have graduated later and than get put in the same team as kakashi, but at a junior rank, which is what we see as well.

 

[IKSOKRIPS]

Why? Shinobi can take the ninja test at what ever age they want... no one said they need to be the same age. The fact that they were in the chunnin exam together proves that they are not the same age.

That doesn't really prove anything. Kakashi graduate earlier, Obito later and as I said Chapter 599 is full of mistakes.

 

[iSpeak]

Is there any evidence for the 3-4 years you bring up?

Yeh, I explained it all in one of my previous posts.

Except its not MY theory. Its what the manga and databook shows. Re read this thread and all my posts in it to get what i'm saying.

Your earlier arguments are invalid because:
Graduating the academy later just means that he graduated later. Not that he was older. He could have graduated later and than get put in the same team as kakashi, but at a junior rank, which is what we see as well.

Neither the Manga or databook show they are the same age though...

Explain to me this.

Obito and Kakashi were both on the same team in the Chuunin exams right? Meaning that they were both gennin rank at that time.

If Kakashi's was promoted to Chuunin at age 6 and Obito was promoted to Gennin at age 9 yet they were on the same team in the Chunnin exams, how can they possibly be the same age?

That doesn't really prove anything. Kakashi graduate earlier, Obito later and as I said Chapter 599 is full of mistakes.

It does, its actually undeniable proof. The only other explanation is that Kishi accidentally drew Obtio and Kakashi together in the Chunnin exams and accidentally wrote both of their names on the same team.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Thanks for understanding.

The only solution is a Fourth Databook, which I really hope it does come out. . . . . . :dunno:



As NarutoKage2 said, it's only logical for them to be the same age. It is never stated that they were different age, never. But it is logical for them to be the same age.

Yeah np. I don't know why he has trouble assuming Obito and Kakashi the same age, naruto and sauke were the same age. Yet there is'nt a single example of any village team where there was a 3 or 4 year age gap between members.

Yeh, I explained it all in one of my previous posts.



Neither the Manga or databook show they are the same age though...

Explain to me this.

Obito and Kakashi were both on the same team in the Chuunin exams right? Meaning that they were both gennin rank at that time.

If Kakashi's was promoted to Chuunin at age 6 and Obito was promoted to Gennin at age 9 yet they were on the same team in the Chunnin exams, how can they possibly be the same age?
.

It was likely a mistake by kishi to put them on the same team while taking the chuunin exams because Kakashi had graduated and become a genin while Obito did'nt. But if we were to take your logic on this, then 5 year old Kakashi first became teammates with 9 year old Obito, and that does'nt make any sense. Because they are the same height :

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There were definite mistakes like this in that chapter, its undeniable. Here's another one of them:

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Or are you also going to argue that based on that, minato had already become hokage, before Obito was ever crushed and the 3rd shinobi war had'nt even ended?

 

[iSpeak]

It was likely a mistake by kishi to put them on the same team while taking the chuunin exams because Kakashi had graduated and become a genin while Obito did'nt. But if we were to take your logic on this, then 5 year old Kakashi first became teammates with 9 year old Obito, and that does'nt make any sense. Because they are the same height :

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There were definite mistakes like this in that chapter, its undeniable. Here's another one of them:

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Height means nothing in this manga, there are plenty of examples where a character looks older/younger than they are or are taller than an elder character. Plus, there are panels where Kakashi actually does look smaller than Obito. But drawing a complete character in a place where they are not supposed to be many times is a completely different story.
Anyway, if you don't believe that Kishi would make a mistake twice with Oro's age, I don't see why you would think Kishi would accidentally make a whole chapter on Kakashi and Obito, and accidently drawn them together in the Chunnin exams many times and accidently write their name together on the team.

The is nothing to say they are the same age except assumptions, whilst the only evidence against them not being the same age is that Kishi "may" have made a mistake.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Height means nothing in this manga, there are plenty of examples where a character looks older/younger than they are or are taller than an elder character. Plus, there are panels where Kakashi actually does look smaller than Obito. But drawing a complete character in a place where they are not supposed to be many times is a completely different story.
Anyway, if you don't believe that Kishi would make a mistake twice with Oro's age, I don't see why you would think Kishi would accidentally make a whole chapter on Kakashi and Obito, and accidently drawn them together in the Chunnin exams many times and accidently write their name together on the team.

The is nothing to say they are the same age except assumptions, whilst the only evidence against them not being the same age is that Kishi "may" have made a mistake.

I love how you ignored the evidence about minato's face being shown on the statue. Tell me, if you are just going off the images shown in 599 and what they imply, why don't you tell me more about how minato became the hokage before the battle of kannabi bridge ever took place?

EDIT: Except that there can be a mistake in one manga chapter, i even admitted it to the guy i was arguing with. However i showed him TWO SEPARATE manga chapters that both said the same thing. Your entire rant here is based entirely off one highly flawed chapter. Show me a single manga scan other than 599 that shows Obito and kakashi taking the chuunin exams together