[Theory] Tiers Level One Piece Theory

[kiiro]

Yonkou First Mates have been portrayed to have a 1 billion bounty as far as we know, and all the other commanders have never reached that high before. Maybe we should hold off on Jack for a while then because we don't know his position yet.
So you believe Yonkou First Mate Dogtooth or Marco would beat an Admiral in a 1 v 1 match? Okay then, why do you think that?

I cant say beat, I just can say they can give each other a fight and we need feats to prove who can win who. I just can say that non can low difficult each other.

Yes complete agree with you on this one here. As for Mihawk he should be on a different level because he's basically like the Vice Admiral Garp of the Warlord system. Pre-timeskip he and Kuma were the only Warlord pirate to not be captain of his own pirate crew, and Mihawk is the only Warlord to deadlock a Yonkou in a fight. All the other Warlords either worked under a yonkou or got their ass kicked by one in a 1 v 1 match.
Maybe Mihawk is also a billion bounty reward since he's way above Warlord level???

I see Mingo as a 1 Billion Bounty Pirate. Mihawk might also be since I dont see him being weaker.

Law was not the one who defeated Doflamingo, that's why he didn't get a +100 million more and only Luffy did. I know that Moriah is the weaker warlord but he's still on that tier group. This is just how the government view their threat level especially when Jimbei noted that Moriah relied too much on other people's powers during this era.
Law gained +60 million for being in an alliance with Luffy.

That is not how news spread over. It was the alliance of Luffy and Law.

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It was both, Law internally and Luffy externally. But both. Zoro had an increase of +200 bounty for deafteing Pica or for helping defeating Doflamingo? I just dont get why would Pica mean an increase of 200 and Doflamingo only 100?

That does not sound logical unless Pica was the true boss. Defeating a Warlord wont give you an increase of 100 million bounty but the value of what he is worth (considering the circumstances), and in this case he was defeated by Law and Luffy so it was divided in two. As simple as that.

No you need to read the manga again because Cracker beat BounceMan but he lost to TankMan. Aokiji one shot Dofy in Punk Hazard but he did not one shot Whitebeard because Aokiji admitted that it is too difficult to freeze vibrations.

Ok, why do you say he beat Bound Man? Difference between Tank Man and Bound Man is not that big.

Aokji 1 shot Doflamingo is not true, he was on his back besides that nothing happen to him. One shot is defeating, he did not defeat Doffy. He could not freeze Doflamingo, at least we know he cant freeze him even if it took some time.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Where did they said only Pirate? Why would they expect a Pirate do their job?

Teach ran from Akainu when he was not Yonkou level. In fact, the 2 years of time skip has not even pass yet. That same also said he was not prepared for Shanks. But you are right that Gorosei said that one chapter before Teach ran from Akainu but you must remember that he was not there to fight but to take a ship with no fighting delivering the pirate girl.

The Gorosei said that even Marco could probably stop BB. The same Marco who, with help, could only stall injured Akainu. Aokiji is practically Akainu's equal as well. The Gorosei were also talking about how they should wait until the pirate power vacuum clears up so they can pick out the best ones to be a warlord.

Their entire conversation was about the inevitable power vacuum among the pirates to claim WB's territories and the yonko position. They mentioned BB cause he was the forerunner of likely yonko candidates.

 

[Sakazuki]

Absurdity aside, Gorosei were talking about PIRATES who could stop BB. Your claims about what they meant is countered by the fact that BB with his crew ran away from Akainu, with BB himself saying he wasn't ready for it. All this AFTER the Gorosei's conversation.

This. /thread

 

[kiiro]

Get imaginative Rikidough. Literally everything you're saying can be held against you in the worst ways and you should've realized it as you wrote. Reread your entire first chunk. It clashes with what OP established, which I just finished ridiculing, so I'm in agreement. THERE IS NO YONKO COMMANDER LEVEL, but look at the OP and see what literally says "Yonko Commander" level at the bottom of the text. It was just two posts ago that I was telling you I don't necessarily have to believe half of what I'm saying but come to ridiculous conclusions from the OP, which you're attempting to bust my balls for doing.

1. Then what's so special about Blackbeard beating Marco? Does this mean I can assume Marco wouldn't send Blackbeard running with his tail between his legs? This would mean Marco isn't 2 Billion and is no longer on equal footing with Akainu who is still 2 Billion to me. If Marco isn't 2 Billion, could I assume Blackbeard's 1.5 Billion and suction powers may have already been enough to let him beat Marco?

2. And what do you think they knew of Blackbeard? Shanks himself already established that Blackbeard has always laid low. They've seen nothing from Blackbeard prior to taking WB's fruit.

4th chunk, NO SHIT. Thanks for grasping the fact that an admiral was the only thing they could've possibly sent at Blackbeard aside from Shichibukai. Vice admirals would've gotten pawned, so you should understand that, at best, this means Blackbeard was seen either between Barto's(he beat a VA) level all the way up to a who knows. Again, this does nothing to disregard the gravity of the situation, which unmistakably contributed to an admiral being sent. @ that Kizaru and Dark King bit, wrong, wrong, wrong. They had no idea the Dark King was there. In fact, they sent an admiral out 100% because of the fact that a Celestial Dragon got hit and Garp is viewed no worse than Kizaru. Honestly, Garp may be viewed as stronger than Kizaru.

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@ 5th chunk, I agree. But there is a High Tier Yonko Commander Level according to OP's scaling. Maybe you're just taking everything I'm saying at face value or something? The rank FM would place BB somewhere from
and I just put him smack dead in the middle with 1.5.


1. You have no nuance and have lost my interest.
2. I don't care.

@ Very last sentence, you dumb motherfucker.. You just finished denying that the only thing distinguishing them, inner tiers within tiers, doesn't exist. READ THE OP. First Commander Level(1 Billion to 2 Billion) overlaps with Commander Level(500 Million to 1.5 Billion). They're all in one group to some extent. You can reply, and I'll read it, but don't expect a response since this entire thing is becoming muddied with disjointed segments and would eventually require us to discuss a slew of characters to pin them down with an arbitrary number. Ultimately, I'm not interested in arguing what you think the scaling should look like, but against what the OP says.

Hello. When I said 1st Commander of Yonkou, I did not said all would have a certain bounty, I just said they would be above 1 billion.

And I overlap commanders from 2nd to below with the limit of 1.5 billion just becuase Jack which I believe he is the third commander already has 1 billion. But if he is already first mate, then the rule I said wont fit and the limit would be just 1 billion.

I think that is also what Rikudou Tobi is trying to say, there is no concrete level of first mate, it can have a range.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Hello. When I said 1st Commander of Yonkou, I did not said all would have a certain bounty, I just said they would be above 1 billion.

And I overlap commanders from 2nd to below with the limit of 1.5 billion just becuase Jack which I believe he is the third commander already has 1 billion. But if he is already first mate, then the rule I said wont fit and the limit would be just 1 billion.

I think that is also what Rikudou Tobi is trying to say, there is no concrete level of first mate, it can have a range.

Yes, yes, and yes. Hence why I'm saying High Tier Yonko Commander to distinguish a Commander Level fighter as worthy of 1.5 opposed to 500 million or something extremely vague. That's why I think it's dumb as hell that he's ragging against my terminology.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Get imaginative Rikidough. Literally everything you're saying can be held against you in the worst ways and you should've realized it as you wrote. Reread your entire first chunk. It clashes with what OP established, which I just finished ridiculing, so I'm in agreement. THERE IS NO YONKO COMMANDER LEVEL, but look at the OP and see what literally says "Yonko Commander" level at the bottom of the text. It was just two posts ago that I was telling you I don't necessarily have to believe half of what I'm saying but come to ridiculous conclusions from the OP, which you're attempting to bust my balls for doing.

I already told Op that there's no such level, between me and him this is already established. You on the other hand still refer to these characters as yonkou commander tier.

1. Then what's so special about Blackbeard beating Marco? Does this mean I can assume Marco wouldn't send Blackbeard running with his tail between his legs? This would mean Marco isn't 2 Billion and is no longer on equal footing with Akainu who is still 2 Billion to me. If Marco isn't 2 Billion, could I assume Blackbeard's 1.5 Billion and suction powers may have already been enough to let him beat Marco?

There is no 2 billion as anyone is concerned and the point is that beating Marco specifically is what gave him the Yonko title. Same thing with Luffy beating Dogtooth, so it's not that hard to comprehend that the gab between an Admiral and a Yonkou FM is not that far off considering the fact that beating a Yonko FM gives you a position that is greater than an Admiral. Yonko title.
It's clear as ever that the marinford blackbeard is not as strong as the blackbeard that took out Marco.

2. And what do you think they knew of Blackbeard? Shanks himself already established that Blackbeard has always laid low. They've seen nothing from Blackbeard prior to taking WB's fruit.

The only thing you can take from that is that Ace is not ready for Blackbeard, as

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so the next person that is above him in strength is Marco who is Yonkou First Mate. Which brings me back to my claim on Blackbeard's strength from before.

4th chunk, NO SHIT. Thanks for grasping the fact that an admiral was the only thing they could've possibly sent at Blackbeard aside from Shichibukai. Vice admirals would've gotten pawned, so you should understand that, at best, this means Blackbeard was seen either between Barto's(he beat a VA) level all the way up to a who knows. Again, this does nothing to disregard the gravity of the situation, which unmistakably contributed to an admiral being sent. @ that Kizaru and Dark King bit, wrong, wrong, wrong. They had no idea the Dark King was there. In fact, they sent an admiral out 100% because of the fact that a Celestial Dragon got hit and Garp is viewed no worse than Kizaru. Honestly, Garp may be viewed as stronger than Kizaru.

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Well no shit you dumbass, they sent an admiral on few super rookies so of course Blackbeard should not receive any thing lower since he posses much more of a threat than those guys.
The kizaru part is just dead wrong you dumb retarded motherfucker. They received news that the Dark King was there and reprted right to Garp immediately:

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It was Kizaru who said that he wanted to go:

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Garp was suppose to go there first before Kizaru decided to go himself right after the incident.

@ 5th chunk, I agree. But there is a High Tier Yonko Commander Level according to OP's scaling. Maybe you're just taking everything I'm saying at face value or something? The rank FM would place BB somewhere from
and I just put him smack dead in the middle with 1.5.

Which is irrelevant to anything I'm saying in the first place because this is about comparing Yonkou FM to Admirals and Admirals have no bounties on their head to gauge their powers by. These have been covered by my and op's previous statement.

1. You have no nuance and have lost my interest.
2. I don't care.

@ Very last sentence, you dumb motherfucker.. You just finished denying that the only thing distinguishing them, inner tiers within tiers, doesn't exist. READ THE OP. First Commander Level(1 Billion to 2 Billion) overlaps with Commander Level(500 Million to 1.5 Billion). They're all in one group to some extent. You can reply, and I'll read it, but don't expect a response since this entire thing is becoming muddied with disjointed segments and would eventually require us to discuss a slew of characters to pin them down with an arbitrary number. Ultimately, I'm not interested in arguing what you think the scaling should look like, but against what the OP says.

Listen here you retarded dickhead. These fanfictional numbers still remains nothing to me because I never agreed with Op's entire scaling in the first place you illiterate dolt. I've even stated this before but you clearly didn't read. My problem here is the shit scaling your using of different levels of Blackbeard to Yonko FM to and Admiral. That's it. I didn't mention anything about the bounty for a reason because we don't know any bounty that is 2 billion yet, so I kept that thinking aside.
I'm scaling based on feats not hypothetical bounties.

 

[minamoto]

1 Yonko = 4 Admirals?? And I thought that KOL was a bad powerscaler...

oh no.. no bobi lang!!..

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I cant say beat, I just can say they can give each other a fight and we need feats to prove who can win who. I just can say that non can low difficult each other.

Which is agreeable in this sense because there are still idiots out there like @Minamoto Teh who believe that an Admiral will low diff a Yonko FM (Marco and Dogtooth) in a fight all just because a less significant version of BB retreated from Akainu while a much stronger version of BB completely overwhelmed Marco.

I see Mingo as a 1 Billion Bounty Pirate. Mihawk might also be since I dont see him being weaker.

Let's just agree to disagree because Doflamingo hasn't shown anything on Dogtooth's level let alone Cracker. You can fan him if you want but facts just remains to be facts. Luffy beating a 1 billion bounty threat gave Luffy a Yonko seat while beating Doflaimngo just gave him a +100 million bounty.

Mihawk is just known as the guy that stalemated a Yonko and that's just a hype for another day

That is not how news spread over. It was the alliance of Luffy and Law.

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They said that the strawhat pirates and the heart pirates took down the Donquixote Pirates, however Doflamingo himself was reported to be taken down by only Luffy

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It was both, Law internally and Luffy externally. But both. Zoro had an increase of +200 bounty for deafteing Pica or for helping defeating Doflamingo? I just dont get why would Pica mean an increase of 200 and Doflamingo only 100?

Law's internal ones was alreadt stitched up so that ment nothing, even Dogtooth impaled himself yet he was fighting just fine. Prior to fighting Luffy he just dealt with Germa so there's no excuses there. Doflamingo sent the whole country on Luff before their fight.

As for Zoro, him and Sanji's bounty was raised by that much and Sanji wasn't even in dressrosa. He was in Zou during that whole time. So the crews bounty went up according due to the captain's association.

That does not sound logical unless Pica was the true boss. Defeating a Warlord wont give you an increase of 100 million bounty but the value of what he is worth (considering the circumstances), and in this case he was defeated by Law and Luffy so it was divided in two. As simple as that.

Except it does give you a 100 million bounty just like the manga showed. Nobody has received 200 million plus bounty or more by defeating one opponent that's not already a billion bounty.

Ok, why do you say he beat Bound Man? Difference between Tank Man and Bound Man is not that big.

The difference between TankMan and BounceMan is that TankMan is bigger and has a stronger haki that Cracker cannot penetrate:

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Cracker can penetrate BounceMan's Haki:

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Aokji 1 shot Doflamingo is not true, he was on his back besides that nothing happen to him. One shot is defeating, he did not defeat Doffy. He could not freeze Doflamingo, at least we know he cant freeze him even if it took some time.

We just sae him freeze Doflamingo. It was Aokiji that let him leave, Doflamingo forfeited that fight otherwise he would've continued to attack Smoker for information. That was the whole point of Aokiji freezing Doflamingo in the first place, to get him away from Smoker.

 

[kiiro]

Which is agreeable in this sense because there are still idiots out there like @Minamoto Teh who believe that an Admiral will low diff a Yonko FM (Marco and Dogtooth) in a fight all just because a less significant version of BB retreated from Akainu while a much stronger version of BB completely overwhelmed Marco.

Let's just agree to disagree because Doflamingo hasn't shown anything on Dogtooth's level let alone Cracker. You can fan him if you want but facts just remains to be facts. Luffy beating a 1 billion bounty threat gave Luffy a Yonko seat while beating Doflaimngo just gave him a +100 million bounty.

Mihawk is just known as the guy that stalemated a Yonko and that's just a hype for another day

They said that the strawhat pirates and the heart pirates took down the Donquixote Pirates, however Doflamingo himself was reported to be taken down by only Luffy

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1.- Then we agreed that Yonkou's FM can give a fight to an Admiral.
2.- Well, that is Big Mom, I already showed you how the news were spread and BM just pointed Luffy.
3.- It was not defeating only a 1 billion bounty pirate, it was all what he did vs Big Mom. The news was said that Luffy destroyed her place, commanded Bege Crew, Germa 666, Jimbei, defeated sweet commanders and get out alive with no loses. That is why he is consider to be the next Yonkou, otherwise even Mihawk would be an Emperor and he isnt. Lets not argue about Doflamingo then. I will bring later the thread.

Law's internal ones was alreadt stitched up so that ment nothing, even Dogtooth impaled himself yet he was fighting just fine. Prior to fighting Luffy he just dealt with Germa so there's no excuses there. Doflamingo sent the whole country on Luff before their fight.

So you really think it meant nothing? LOL. Even if he stitched his organs, they were not cured, he only stitched them and couldnt complain since he still had to fight. There is even this scan that shows he touches his stomach:

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But if you think that only stitching his organs could be called regeneration then there is no debate here.

As for Zoro, him and Sanji's bounty was raised by that much and Sanji wasn't even in dressrosa. He was in Zou during that whole time. So the crews bounty went up according due to the captain's association.

Except it does give you a 100 million bounty just like the manga showed. Nobody has received 200 million plus bounty or more by defeating one opponent that's not already a billion bounty.

Zoro had an increase from 120 million to 320 million in dresrossa. How do you explain that? He did not defeat a Shichibukai, why did Luffy had a lower increase and Zoro a higher increase that only defeated Pica?

The difference between TankMan and BounceMan is that TankMan is bigger and has a stronger haki that Cracker cannot penetrate:

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Cracker can penetrate BounceMan's Haki:

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Then why did Craker did not penetrate Bound Man here?

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It was his sword with armament Haki, Luffy destroyed it and destroyed the Biscuit soldier. Tank Man and Bound Man dont have a difference in Haki, it was never mentioned or stated. Cracker only managed to cut Luffy since it was his stretched arm and never expected it so he did not endure the hit.

Just in case you think that Luffy said that Cracker had the strongest armament haki he has fought, well that was a mistranslation, it was basically just "His haki is insanely tough"

This is the viz scan:

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We just sae him freeze Doflamingo. It was Aokiji that let him leave, Doflamingo forfeited that fight otherwise he would've continued to attack Smoker for information. That was the whole point of Aokiji freezing Doflamingo in the first place, to get him away from Smoker.

Aokji and Doflaming knew that a fight

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He even told Smoke to tell Akainu to move the admirals and that he was the biggest threat that Akuinu would confront till that date.

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[HowDidIGetPrem]

I already told Op that there's no such level, between me and him this is already established. You on the other hand still refer to these characters as yonkou commander tier.

There is no 2 billion as anyone is concerned and the point is that beating Marco specifically is what gave him the Yonko title. Same thing with Luffy beating Dogtooth, so it's not that hard to comprehend that the gab between an Admiral and a Yonkou FM is not that far off considering the fact that beating a Yonko FM gives you a position that is greater than an Admiral. Yonko title.
It's clear as ever that the marinford blackbeard is not as strong as the blackbeard that took out Marco.

The only thing you can take from that is that Ace is not ready for Blackbeard, as

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so the next person that is above him in strength is Marco who is Yonkou First Mate. Which brings me back to my claim on Blackbeard's strength from before.

Well no shit you dumbass, they sent an admiral on few super rookies so of course Blackbeard should not receive any thing lower since he posses much more of a threat than those guys.
The kizaru part is just dead wrong you dumb retarded motherfucker. They received news that the Dark King was there and reprted right to Garp immediately:

Spoiler

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It was Kizaru who said that he wanted to go:

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Garp was suppose to go there first before Kizaru decided to go himself right after the incident.


Which is irrelevant to anything I'm saying in the first place because this is about comparing Yonkou FM to Admirals and Admirals have no bounties on their head to gauge their powers by. These have been covered by my and op's previous statement.

Listen here you retarded dickhead. These fanfictional numbers still remains nothing to me because I never agreed with Op's entire scaling in the first place you illiterate dolt. I've even stated this before but you clearly didn't read. My problem here is the shit scaling your using of different levels of Blackbeard to Yonko FM to and Admiral. That's it. I didn't mention anything about the bounty for a reason because we don't know any bounty that is 2 billion yet, so I kept that thinking aside.
I'm scaling based on feats not hypothetical bounties.

So we agree beyond my misunderstanding. Akainu will still stomp Marco and 15 other commanders all at once though.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

So we agree beyond my misunderstanding. Akainu will still stomp Marco and 15 other commanders all at once though.

He’s getting his ass kicked you troll. YFM level is close to Admiral level in strength.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

He’s getting his ass kicked you troll. YFM level is close to Admiral level in strength.

Suuuuuuuuuurrre. Admirals would ABSOLUTELY murder a FM.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Suuuuuuuuuurrre. Admirals would ABSOLUTELY murder a FM.

Marco with help only being able to stall an injured Akainu but still getting hurt with other commanders being taken out never happened :sdo:

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Akainu standing in front of Whitebeard's commander in one panel, then shifts off panel to Akainu standing in front of Colby is now somehow correlated to Akainu beating up all of the commanders?

:lol the stupidity just never surprises me here. I didn't see a Akainu fighting an injured Marco with Jozu, Vista, Atoms etc at his side in an all out battle. Now this stupid clowns fanfic believes that his vanderpiece showed akainu beat up all of the commanders in a fight.
Off panel Akainu changed locations and all of a sudden, now that means he defeated all of the commanders?

Jesus christ Riker what's taking you so long? Hurry up and get your clown.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Lmao this guy is always finding a way to mention his daddy (Riker).

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Lmao this guy is always finding a way to mention his daddy (Riker).

I’m your daddy, boy.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Marco with help only being able to stall an injured Akainu but still getting hurt with other commanders being taken out never happened :sdo:

you right, but it sure as hell would if it's what Akainu wanted and had the time to do so. Akainu would fist Marco hundreds of times and force him to die of emotionally related reasons after handling his buddies.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Akainu standing in front of Whitebeard's commander in one panel, then shifts off panel to Akainu standing in front of Colby is now somehow correlated to Akainu beating up all of the commanders?

:lol the stupidity just never surprises me here. I didn't see a Akainu fighting an injured Marco with Jozu, Vista, Atoms etc at his side in an all out battle. Now this stupid clowns fanfic believes that his vanderpiece showed akainu beat up all of the commanders in a fight.
Off panel Akainu changed locations and all of a sudden, now that means he defeated all of the commanders?

Jesus christ Riker what's taking you so long? Hurry up and get your clown.

Marco with help only being able to stall an injured Akainu but still getting hurt with other commanders being taken out never happened :sdo:

:sdo:

Lmao this guy is always finding a way to mention his daddy (Riker).

He's definitely in love with Riker. It has to be rejected love cause a simple grudge doesn't explain why he always compares people who disagree with them to Riker, even when Riker is nowhere to be seen. Rikubou is desperate for Riker's attention lol

you right, but it sure as hell would if it's what Akainu wanted and had the time to do so. Akainu would fist Marco hundreds of times and force him to die of emotionally related reasons after handling his buddies.

Nah Akainu can't do that as he's equal to a yonko first mate. That's means Old WB is weaker than a first mate since the admirals got the better of him but Old WB is still stronger than them. Remember that logic of guys like Rikudou isn't even at the basic levels uttahere:

EDIT: Did I seriously just get a notification telling me that I quoted myself......

 

[Punk Hazard]

Akainu standing in front of Whitebeard's commander in one panel, then shifts off panel to Akainu standing in front of Colby is now somehow correlated to Akainu beating up all of the commanders?

:lol the stupidity just never surprises me here. I didn't see a Akainu fighting an injured Marco with Jozu, Vista, Atoms etc at his side in an all out battle. Now this stupid clowns fanfic believes that his vanderpiece showed akainu beat up all of the commanders in a fight.
Off panel Akainu changed locations and all of a sudden, now that means he defeated all of the commanders?

Jesus christ Riker what's taking you so long? Hurry up and get your clown.

Since you called me:

Akainu was shown facing the commanders alone, says that they're going to fight, and there's a panel of an explosion after Akainu starts charging towards them. We then see Akainu defeating a commander after other Marines join in, and then he continues on chasing Luffy.

That's what tells us he clashes with them alone and survives, and other Marines join him when the war escalates to the highest point lmao

Lmao this guy is always finding a way to mention his daddy (Riker).

Who needs to mingle and use dating apps when Rikudou Tobi is always around offering top

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Since you called me:

Akainu was shown facing the commanders alone, says that they're going to fight, and there's a panel of an explosion after Akainu starts charging towards them. We then see Akainu defeating a commander after other Marines join in, and then he continues on chasing Luffy.

Marco, Jozu, and Vista weren't there so him beating up 10th commander Curiel who has no haki capabilities≠Beating all of Whitebeard's commanders at once. As soon as the war was over, all other commanders remained unscathed prior to Cruiel's downfall.

That's what tells us he clashes with them alone and survives, and other Marines join him when the war escalates to the highest point lmao

No that's called a useless speculation

Who needs to mingle and use dating apps when Rikudou Tobi is always around offering top

It's no secret that you and Mucho are swapping meats behind close doors, so you dickeaters should not get me involved with your love life.