Tier List v2

[Haizaki]

Fam. I just want to know why you disliked the post cause I don't see anything wrong with what I said. You always are disliking my posts without posting in the thread and you know like lowkey (really low key) I was getting my feelings hurt because I respect you smh. Because tards dislike my posts all the time but idc because theyre tards. But when Haizaki dislikes my posts I start feeling some type of way. So yeah what I said wasn't even meant to be taken so serious but an explanation is all I'm looking for.

Okay..I'll reply to your PM instead of doing so now and then because I'm actually in a rush now.

Yeah he can. Chamaleon's mouth open, then splat. Shinra Tensei.

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Now replace the chamaleon with the Cerberus, who Gai can't kill given its feat of

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. The dog opens its mouth and Deva uses CST, and Gai dies. Or, Deva just releases the CT orb inside the Cerberus and then Gai can't destroy it with AT because the dog is shielding it.

Yeah? But that's assuming:

- Gai isn't on his toes expecting something of this such from Pain as he'll see him entering the mouth if that even happens.

- The Chameleon doesn't not have the speed to evade AT's range or even Asakujaku's. Don't see that happen if Gai decides to blast it with AT from the very beginning knowing this can be a viable strategy.

- The dog is the only choice but unlike the Chameleon, the dog can't hide itself. Hence Gai knows for sure what to do and can easily avoid being in the front of the dog with his speed and considering how small he is comparison plus the speed making it hard to actually track him. Not hard for him...Or he can wait for the opening of the mouth while the dog simply leaves Pain exposed for fast attacks like Hirudora once it opens it's mouth.

- How did you come to the conclusion that Gai would easily sit back there and watch Pain go in? Not to mention this ignores Gai's ridiculous speed as seen with Madara let alone one placing their hand to summon and then one entering it's mouth before Hiruodra comes out or Gai acts. Hiruodra was way to fast for Madara to complete a sword stab and even forced him to strike rather than evading in his JJ form.

- All the Paths have to be deactivated for him to use CST

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. Animal path gets deactivated if he wants to use CST or CT and Nagato stated he had to be knocked out to stop Cerebus from what I recall against Naruto and Killer B. I can argue that the same would occur if Animal path gets deactivated which can lead to disappearance of the summon leaving Pain marked for death as Animal path is put down.

- In a scenario where you put up an argument that even counters that, then the Paths getting deactivated hints at Gai what's coming and getting ready to attack an opened out with AT. Not to mention Gai dancing around till the summoning limit expires.

- You've given us reasons but failed to give us how they deal with AT which is far faster that what they can offer. Not to mention in the case where the intel is Manga, Gai can start with AT and Preta can decide to absorb it like Kisame thinking it's Ninjutsu. That leads to death. Similar to how Preta jumped in to absorb this in front of the paths

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. That's when they take their formation and the intel is Manga. The only time they evade or try something different is when Preta isn't there

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. Otherwise that's the reasonable thing to happen and Gai showed Manga intel on Pain in the middle panel here

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The only way Gai can beat Pain is if he blitzes before several of the paths enter the summon's mouth. And even if that were to be the case it doesn't show that Gai is on the same tier as Pain because this is a tier list, not a matchup. Pain's trump cards+regular ST and BT+Preta hax+a bunch of other useful abilities definitely puts him above Gai when you compare them in power.

Gai has the speed and power to compete with a Juubi Jinchuuriki for a period of time which is unheard of in the Manga. This is Gai's ability as a whole..The only thing he lacks is ninjutsu but given that fact that he can battle a Jin with what he has despite the Jin himself(Madara for that matter) being endowed with other abilities. I think it's a good feat for him. Plus Kisame as well a known S Rank criminal Itachi spoke about Gai's prowess several times even in his hideout to Pain. Several more and him mentioned to be stronger than Kakashi even though Kakashi was noted to have way more Jutsu's in his arsenal..I won't just refer to what they have because Pain has more techniques. Let's refer to how well they fare against multiple opponents and I won't be surprised if Gai can defeat more opponents than he can based on his combat ability.

If "7th Gate Gai" just meant that Gai starts in 7G, there's nothing stopping him from opening the final gate and beating everyone in his tier. Which is what OP obviously didn't intend. What he meant is that the 7th Gate is the highest gate this Gai can open, which is why he has unrestricted Gai on another tier. If Gai starts in 7th Gate he could blitz Nagato and win, he could kill Kabuto with Hirudora right off the bat and win, he could blitz literally everyone in his tier and the tier above him, heck he can even blitz EMS Sasuke before he puts up Susanoo given his feat of pushing back JJ Madara. Just like how "8th Gate Gai" on Tier 5 doesn't actually start in 8th Gate otherwise he'd shitblitz the people in his tier and the people in the tier above him. Do you see where I'm going with this? Tier lists put overall power first. Don't think KG meant Gai starts in 7G, but a simple solution to this argument is just to ask him lol.

Yes I do but just like in threads for example in threads, they can say Gai vs Itachi and "Gai can only open up to the 7th Gate". That's much different from 7G Gai which clearly indicates it being opened. @Bold..Refer to 3T Sasuke being in a different Tier to MS Sasuke which counters this point.

OP could have stated "Gai can open up to the 7G" rather than 7G Gai which is entirely different. In logical and realistical terms, this should be the widely accepted one regardless of him being able to blitz or so because that's the advantage he has over them given the fact that they all have a field in which the specialize in.

Not that this even matter because the time between Gai opening the 7 Gate from Base is probably a second. Seeing how:

- He opened it and use AT and this happened while Madara was already in motion trying to stave Naruto with his Blade. A second or who knows how ridiculous fast that could even be. There are other times of him showing how fast he could open it in his fights that make this particular argument useless.

Lol bruh do not flip out on me. I didn't say anything incorrect in my post and more than 24 hours later you hadn't said anything to follow up so I assumed you just weren't gonna post. Pretty often you dislike my posts and don't say anything even if I'm making good points (and end up being right) and it was only on this thread that I ended up actually saying something about it. Like what do you even disagree with in my post lol? Pain beating Gai? Gai's tier placement? Because I actually want to hear a reason why you think Gai belongs in the same tier as Kabuto, Edo Itachi, and Pain.

Like I said, I couldn't then because I don't have time...Like I only had a little time to respond now. I'll respond to your message properly...There are times where people message or so but I take my time because I don't want to rush. I disliked your arguments made in that post. What I'm responding to now.

 

[Beans2]

Okay..I'll reply to your PM instead of doing so now and then because I'm actually in a rush now.

K

Yeah? But that's assuming:

- Gai isn't on his toes expecting something of this such from Pain as he'll see him entering the mouth if that even happens.

How does this matter?

- The Chameleon doesn't not have the speed to evade AT's range or even Asakujaku's. Don't see that happen if Gai decides to blast it with AT from the very beginning knowing this can be a viable strategy.

Yeah, I'm using Cerberus in my argument. Not the chamaleon.

- The dog is the only choice but unlike the Chameleon, the dog can't hide itself. Hence Gai knows for sure what to do and can easily avoid being in the front of the dog with his speed and considering how small he is comparison plus the speed making it hard to actually track him. Not hard for him...Or he can wait for the opening of the mouth while the dog simply leaves Pain exposed for fast attacks like Hirudora once it opens it's mouth.

-Pain de-summons the dog.
-Pain uses CST.
-Gai dies.

Or, de-summoning the dog might not even be necessary. If Deva uses CST from inside the dog...sure the dog might get splattered all over the place, but Gai dies so who cares? Lmao.

- How did you come to the conclusion that Gai would easily sit back there and watch Pain go in? Not to mention this ignores Gai's ridiculous speed as seen with Madara let alone one placing their hand to summon and then one entering it's mouth before Hiruodra comes out or Gai acts. Hiruodra was way to fast for Madara to complete a sword stab and even forced him to strike rather than evading in his JJ form.

-Gai could only do this is he starts in 7G.
-Gai would only do this with full intel.
-Still not a good way to measure overall power levels.

Getting inside Cerberus is just a matter of summoning the animal,

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, and the dog

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. A multitude of animals can be summoned at the same time to block LOS and there's also a bunch of other paths which can act as distractions. When has Gai ever tried to blitz an opponent right off the bat? KCM Naruto did not try to attack him when Nagato summoned, instead he attacked the Cerberus and was

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. So no, I don't think Gai would recklessly try to blitz before Deva lifts a finger, and even if he did, a simple Shinra Tensei at the beginning of the battle while Animal summons would be enough to give him plenty of cover. AT is too slow here as

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, and ST's execution is even faster.

- All the Paths have to be deactivated for him to use CST

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. Animal path gets deactivated if he wants to use CST or CT and Nagato stated he had to be knocked out to stop Cerebus from what I recall against Naruto and Killer B. I can argue that the same would occur if Animal path gets deactivated which can lead to disappearance of the summon leaving Pain marked for death as Animal path is put down.

Doesn't matter, because when the Cerberus is de-summoned Pain uses CST and that's that. BTW you never addressed my strategy of Pain letting off the CT orb inside the Cerberus.

- In a scenario where you put up an argument that even counters that, then the Paths getting deactivated hints at Gai what's coming and getting ready to attack an opened out with AT. Not to mention Gai dancing around till the summoning limit expires.

Gai has already killed the other paths by this point, so he wouldn't know that they were deactivated. Unless you're going to argue that Gai wouldn't kill them specifically for this reason?

- You've given us reasons but failed to give us how they deal with AT which is far faster that what they can offer. Not to mention in the case where the intel is Manga, Gai can start with AT and Preta can decide to absorb it like Kisame thinking it's Ninjutsu. That leads to death. Similar to how Preta jumped in to absorb this in front of the paths

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. That's when they take their formation and the intel is Manga. The only time they evade or try something different is when Preta isn't there

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. Otherwise that's the reasonable thing to happen and Gai showed Manga intel on Pain in the middle panel here

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@Bold-

Why would Gai start with AT? Why would Preta try to absorb it? If Gai starts with Hirudora then Pain just starts with Shinra Tensei and repels AT. If he doesn't use Hirudora in the first 10 seconds of the battle, Pain hops inside Cerberus and continues with one of the strategies I used.

Gai has the speed and power to compete with a Juubi Jinchuuriki for a period of time which is unheard of in the Manga. This is Gai's ability as a whole..The only thing he lacks is ninjutsu but given that fact that he can battle a Jin with what he has despite the Jin himself(Madara for that matter) being endowed with other abilities. I think it's a good feat for him. Plus Kisame as well a known S Rank criminal Itachi spoke about Gai's prowess several times even in his hideout to Pain. Several more and him mentioned to be stronger than Kakashi even though Kakashi was noted to have way more Jutsu's in his arsenal..I won't just refer to what they have because Pain has more techniques. Let's refer to how well they fare against multiple opponents and I won't be surprised if Gai can defeat more opponents than he can based on his combat ability.

Gai has great speed and good firepower, but that's all he has. He has average durability and no ninjutsu. But ok, we can compare them based off people they beat:

-Pain has better chances against Edo Itachi than Gai does.
-Pain has better chances against SM Kabuto than Gai does.
-Pain has better chances against Rinnegan/MS Obito than Gai does.
-Pain has better chances against 3rd Raikage than Gai does.
-Pain has better chances against MS Sasuke than Gai does.
-Pain has better chances against Muu than Gai does.

I can't think of anybody that Gai has better chances of beating.

Yes I do but just like in threads for example in threads, they can say Gai vs Itachi and "Gai can only open up to the 7th Gate". That's much different from 7G Gai which clearly indicates it being opened. @Bold..Refer to 3T Sasuke being in a different Tier to MS Sasuke which counters this point.

OP could have stated "Gai can open up to the 7G" rather than 7G Gai which is entirely different. In logical and realistical terms, this should be the widely accepted one regardless of him being able to blitz or so because that's the advantage he has over them given the fact that they all have a field in which the specialize in.

Not that this even matter because the time between Gai opening the 7 Gate from Base is probably a second. Seeing how:

- He opened it and use AT and this happened while Madara was already in motion trying to stave Naruto with his Blade. A second or who knows how ridiculous fast that could even be. There are other times of him showing how fast he could open it in his fights that make this particular argument useless.

The problem here is that you're thinking of this like a VS thread. It's a tier list. Meaning, whether Gai starts in the 7th Gate or not is irrelevant towards his power level. Meaning arguments which only work if Gai started in the 7th Gate aren't gonna hold up here when we're arguing over tier placement. But you don't think it matters if he starts in base or not, so too avoid getting into a pointless argument I'm just gonna say that in a theoretical fight against Pain he would start in base...as is normal. If you don't like me basing my reasoning around this, then just ask KG if Gai starts in 7G on this tier list.

Like I said, I couldn't then because I don't have time...Like I only had a little time to respond now. I'll respond to your message properly...There are times where people message or so but I take my time because I don't want to rush. I disliked your arguments made in that post. What I'm responding to now.

K

 

[Holy God]

Naruto is stronger than Sasuke but for them not to be in the same tier is foolery when you have Triple Rinnegan Madara in the same tier as JJ Hagoromo.

If we take the Juubi away from both of them Hagoromo would be be able to slaughter Madara since he'll have better chakra reserves and a Susanoo that is atleast 2x greater than that of Sasuke.

Do you actually believe Hagoromo has Susano'o?

 

[LuckyMan]

Do you actually believe Hagoromo has Susano'o?

His son, who inherited the power of his eyes, had it so 9 times out of 10 he had it too. Besides, even if you still think he doesn't have it he can just use creation of all things and make himself one.

 

[Holy God]

His son, who inherited the power of his eyes, had it so 9 times out of 10 he had it too. Besides, even if you still think he doesn't have it he can just use creation of all things and make himself one.

Kaguya had the Byakugan and Dead Bone Pulse bloodline limit yet neither of her sons inherited it. The only reason Indra had it was because he had the Mangekyou Sharingan. As for Creation of All Things, that is a mythical technique that may or may not even exist. If it does, it uses the process of creating life from chakra (Kurama noting that even Sasuke was able to do the opposite, with the exception of giving life to a form as that would be considered Yang). It doesn't allow him to copy techniques. Besides that, I doubt Hagoromo without the ten-tails could even use it, as that was who I was referring to.

 

[ARGUS]

I don't know why people are so fixated on hagoromo having Susanoo when hagoormos rinnegan hype alone trumps anything and everything Susanoo can display

He doesnt need to have Susanoo to beat Madara or sasuke
Just how kaguya or Hamura don't need it to trump Madara or sasuke

 

[Holy God]

I don't know why people are so fixated on hagoromo having Susanoo when hagoormos rinnegan hype alone trumps anything and everything Susanoo can display

He doesnt need to have Susanoo to beat Madara or sasuke
Just how kaguya or Hamura don't need it to trump Madara or sasuke

Hagoromo actually needs everything he can get. The only myth of Hagoromo's power is the defeating of the ten-tails and having the Rinnegan. The former being redundant because it theoretically only needed to be sealed and the seal itself, which was thought to be Planetary Devastation, actually was a two-handed touch seal that creates the same size "planet" as long as you are able to cast it (such as Naruto and Sasuke).

 

[LuckyMan]

Kaguya had the Byakugan and Dead Bone Pulse bloodline limit yet neither of her sons inherited it. The only reason Indra had it was because he had the Mangekyou Sharingan. As for Creation of All Things, that is a mythical technique that may or may not even exist. If it does, it uses the process of creating life from chakra (Kurama noting that even Sasuke was able to do the opposite, with the exception of giving life to a form as that would be considered Yang). It doesn't allow him to copy techniques. Besides that, I doubt Hagoromo without the ten-tails could even use it, as that was who I was referring to.

Hagoromo literally creathed the Six Paths Techniques with creation of all things. He created physical, living entities with it. He can travel through time. He is immortal. He can raise the dead if he wills it. He can create a god damn Susanoo if he wanted, which is easier to do than everything I mentioned.

 

[ARGUS]

Sword of nunoboku was hyped to destroy the entire planet.
Pretty sure it'll one shot Susanoo

 

[Holy God]

Hagoromo literally creathed the Six Paths Techniques with creation of all things. He created physical, living entities with it. He can travel through time. He is immortal. He can raise the dead if he wills it. He can create a god damn Susanoo if he wanted, which is easier to do than everything I mentioned.

The Six Paths techniques are told to be Rinnegan techniques. Hagoromo creating them is theoretical and miniscule for talent because even Tobirama could create techniques. He can't actually travel in time, he meant that as in how he has been able to witness the many events since his death because of his chakra existing along with Kurama and his children's. He can't actually revive people without the normal Rinnegan means. He called upon souls which isn't farfetched since he is one anyways. Using Creation of All Things to separate chakra and make it living is his only impressive action, and it doesn't help him use a Mangekyou Sharingan technique.

 

[Holy God]

Sword of nunoboku was hyped to destroy the entire planet.
Pretty sure it'll one shot Susanoo

I can only recall it being said it was used to shape the world, which is obviously not true. If you can find where it was said to be able to destroy the entire planet, that'd be something to add to his resume, but then again, it won't help him win without the ten-tails because he wouldn't have Truth-Seeking Spheres.

 

[ARGUS]

I can only recall it being said it was used to shape the world, which is obviously not true. If you can find where it was said to be able to destroy the entire planet, that'd be something to add to his resume, but then again, it won't help him win without the ten-tails because he wouldn't have Truth-Seeking Spheres.

Hagoromo shaped the world with the sword, and Obito then states that he will destroy the world with this same sword.

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as for the bold, youre incorrect.
dont see why you need TSB to help him win against susanoo when he already has something that one shots.
and youre wrong about him lacking TSB without the juubi as well..

Databook states that the user of six paths sage mode have access to TSB. thus hagoromo has it without the juubi too.

 

[Holy God]

Hagoromo shaped the world with these flames, and Obito then states that he will destroy the world with this same sword.

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as for the bold, youre incorrect.
dont see why you need TSB to help him win against susanoo when he already has something that one shots.
and youre wrong about him lacking TSB without the juubi as well..

Databook states that the user of six paths sage mode have access to TSB. thus hagoromo has it without the juubi too.

You can't use that. Hagoromo obviously did not create the world as he was born on it, and Obito wasn't going to destroy the Earth because his plan was to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi. He used that as a means of saying that he would end the fight with the sword. Besides that, we actually see Obito forming the sword with his Truth-Seeking Spheres, therefore the sword didn't actually have any special properties that the spheres didn't.

What does Hagoromo have that instantly defeats Susano'o? And yes, the Six Paths Sage Mode does grant access to Truth-Seeking Spheres, but it is also activated by having the chakra of the ten-tails (or all individual tailed beasts). Hagoromo did not have that meaning he only had a very high leveled sage mode (if he even had one).

 

[ARGUS]

You can't use that. Hagoromo obviously did not create the world as he was born on it,

Obito says that he ''shaped'' the world with the blade.
i never said that he created it.

and Obito wasn't going to destroy the Earth because his plan was to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi.

Doesnt matter, he implied that the sword is capable of destroying the entire planet. thus the hype

He used that as a means of saying that he would end the fight with the sword. Besides that, we actually see Obito forming the sword with his Truth-Seeking Spheres, therefore the sword didn't actually have any special properties that the spheres didn't.

the sword is manifested from the TSB, but its power is nothing like the TSB.
its power is derived from the strength of the users will
stronger the will = stronger the sword.

if Obitos sword was made from TSB then PS blade wouldnt have drilled through it, because TSB defense wasnt one shotted by the stronger combination of BSM TBB and Susanoo arrow.
his weak will was why he lost, as he saw himself as a fkn hokage

What does Hagoromo have that instantly defeats Susano'o?

youre asking me of feats from a featless character? what the fuq

he has a blade that is hyped to destroy the entire planet.

he has full mastery and power of a dojutsu that has a hype that blows susanoos out of the water. therefore something in his arsenal would obliterate the susanoo with ease.

he has six paths sage mode further boosting his abilities, and is on par with rinnegan in terms of portrayal.

this alone should be enough merit for him to be above madara and sasuke (the guy who has only half of his power)

And yes, the Six Paths Sage Mode does grant access to Truth-Seeking Spheres, but it is also activated by having the chakra of the ten-tails (or all individual tailed beasts). Hagoromo did not have that meaning he only had a very high leveled sage mode (if he even had one).

the ten tails coffin seal automatically grants you six paths sage mode. which grants you TSB

but do you even realise what you are saying?
youre saying that Hagoromo (who is the six paths) doesnt have six paths sage mode?
wwhen he gave naruto the exacct same thing from his yang half (when he wasnt a jin)?

 

[Bogard]

Needs some change Lol

Tier 1

Kaguya - Confirmed as stronger than Hagomoro with both Hagomoro and Hamura being needed to seal her

Tier 2

Hagoromo
Hamura

Tier3

Double Rinnegan Jinchuriki Madara
War arc Naruto
War arc Sasuke
DMS Kakashi


Tier 4

Jubito
Indra
Asura
Eighth Gate Gai

Tier 5

SM Hashirama

Tier 6

EMS Madara
Edo Madara

Tier 7

BSM Naruto
BM Minato
Rinnegan Obito

Tier 8

Nagato
EMS Sasuke

Tier 9

Minato
Tobirama
Killer B
SM Kabuto
Six Paths of Pain

Tier 10

Edo Itachi
MS Obito
Itachi
Jiraya
SM Naruto
7Gated Gai
MS Kakashi
Mu
2nd Mizukage
Gaara
Third Raikage
MS Sasuke
Kisame
Danzo Shimura
Onoki
Hanzo
Ay
Kinkaku
Ginkaku

Tier 11

Orochimaru
Sasori
Mei
Tsunade
Hiruzen
Hebi Sasuke
Base Jiraiya
Kakuzu
Deidara
4th Kazekage
Sakura
Choji
Konan
Kitsuchi
Lee
Hiashi
Mifune

Tier 12

Kimimaro
Temari
Zabuza
Hidan
Neji
Sai
Dodai
Kankuro
Asuma
Chiyo
Jugo
Suigetsu
Darui
Yamato

I removed the guys i didn't know

 

[Holy God]

Obito says that he ''shaped'' the world with the blade.
i never said that he created it.

Obito says that it is said that he shaped the world with it. Clearly he did not as it's a sword made from Truth-Seeking Spheres.

Doesnt matter, he implied that the sword is capable of destroying the entire planet. thus the hype

Sure, but as I said before, it's realistically not capable of doing. Sure, it could destroy the Earth, just like Susano'o could destroy the Earth, but it's going to take a couple hits and a couple weeks.

the sword is manifested from the TSB, but its power is nothing like the TSB.
its power is derived from the strength of the users will
stronger the will = stronger the sword.

if Obitos sword was made from TSB then PS blade wouldnt have drilled through it, because TSB defense wasnt one shotted by the stronger combination of BSM TBB and Susanoo arrow.
his weak will was why he lost, as he saw himself as a fkn hokage

Yes, the blade may draw power from the will of the user, but that's it. It doesn't have the ability to change landscapes and destroy planets.

youre asking me of feats from a featless character? what the fuq

he has a blade that is hyped to destroy the entire planet.

he has full mastery and power of a dojutsu that has a hype that blows susanoos out of the water. therefore something in his arsenal would obliterate the susanoo with ease.

he has six paths sage mode further boosting his abilities, and is on par with rinnegan in terms of portrayal.

this alone should be enough merit for him to be above madara and sasuke (the guy who has only half of his power)

You yourself said that he had in his arsenal "something that one shots", therefore I asked what it is. If he is "featless" and doesn't have it, don't say that he does. The blade certainly cannot destroy the whole planet and you are probably the only one or one of few that believes that (the sword wasn't even authentic enough to have it's own Databook page or anything about it?). The Rinnegan blowing Susano'o out of the water? Go visit a couple Nagato vs EMS Madara threads and rethink that. It's far more versatile, but it can't stop Susano'o on it's own. For your last point, I'll address that below.

the ten tails coffin seal automatically grants you six paths sage mode. which grants you TSB

but do you even realise what you are saying?
youre saying that Hagoromo (who is the six paths) doesnt have six paths sage mode?
wwhen he gave naruto the exacct same thing from his yang half (when he wasnt a jin)?

Correct, being a host of the ten-tails automatically gives you the Six Paths Sage Mode. We must not be talking about the same timeline however because when I first replied to this thread, it was to this:

If we take the Juubi away from both of them Hagoromo would be be able to slaughter Madara since he'll have better chakra reserves and a Susanoo that is atleast 2x greater than that of Sasuke.

I was thinking of Hagoromo without the ten-tails. If you want me to address Hagoromo with the ten-tails, then he does defeat Sasuke, but not Madara. Madara has everything Hagoromo does except Madara also had the Mangekyou Sharingan. There's also the fact that Hagoromo did not partake in the usage of nin-jutsu and disliked it very much, therefore it wouldn't be far fetched to say he has a very limited range of techniques, most being merely the Six Paths Techniques.