Bold: That's the issue. Kakashi's kamui spawns too fast. There's almost no build up (there is when the target is bigger). Underline: No, that depends on their reaction speed. Being a sensor doesn't mean you can anticipate Kamui when Kamui actually is faster than you.
Do you know how little sense that sentence makes? As long as there is a point where he has to build up chakra, a sensor will be able to feel it and will be able to act. There is no "you can't anticipate Kamui because it's faster than you". Amaterasu is "faster" than any sensor yet Nagato has anticipated it in canon.
And I know it depends on their reaction speed, which is why it'd be iffy. But I'll just go ahead and drop this argument since Kamui snipe from the beginning doesn't prove that Kakashi is on their level. The fact he needs to do that says enough.
Man there's no reference there to tell how much time he prepped it. He could've been prepping it seconds earlier and it wasn't showed. It's not like with the susano arrow and we can tell how fast Kakashi did it.
Lol now you are making assumptions.
1. One moment he's still.
2. Next moment he charges forward and Amaterasu is used.
If you want me to believe that he was charging it then you are going to have to show that he was or show me why he would've had to have been charging it.
If there was actually something to compare how much time it took to him. As fasr as we know, two sensors were able to react to its charge time, and one speedster was able to react to its travelling speed. His EMS feat against Kabuto is this:
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Lol Kabuto never once reacted to Amaterasu, and Ay dodging Amaterasu is irrelevant as he'd easily dodge Kamui too. Kabuto was running, and then Amaterasu was used and when it appeared he stopped in his tracks.
We see Kabuto with muki tensei severaal mts away from the brothers. By the time Sasuke fires amaterasu Kabuto was already like 1 mt away from them.
This feat also lacks a refernce since we don't know when Sasuke decided to use amaterasu. But this tells us that from the time Sasuke preps it and fires it theres enogugh time for Kabuto to run some mts.
The dishonesty with this one is crazy. Come on now, read that scan again.
1. Panel one shows Kabuto in his beginning position.
2. Panel two shows him in travel.
3. Panel 3 shows him using Amaterasu.
4. Panel 4 shows that Kabuto is in front of the Uchiha bros.
Where does this scan show him traveling meters during Amaterasu's "prep time"? I'll wait. Let's not forget that Sasuke had to make an entire circle around him.
If Kakashi can tolerate the pain half second, its a draw. Still, Kamui would spawn first and have the time advantage.
Which he can't. Unless you are actually going to try and tell me he's going to be able to warp when his whole upper body has caught on fire, at which point I won't be able to take you seriously, then there's absolutely no way that him getting hit with Amaterasu would still result in his arm.
What are you suggesting?
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We clearly see that the flame already came out , so Amaterasu was already fired, then Ay dodges it. The fire was obviously travelling and not spawning, since it travelled until the samurai on the back.
Lmao, dude. Stop. I literally just explained why Ay wasn't hit. Repeating the same thing isn't going to change that. Ay wasn't hit because he Shunshin'd out of Sasuke's range before the flame completely spawned on him. "already came out" is irrelevant when it didn't form completely, as I literally just stated.
-Amaterasu spawns.
-C said it in the same chapter.
-No more discussion on that point.
No time reference. And against Kabuto it's prep time was not impressive at all.
There is no prep time. Just excuses.
Two of them are RG Sasuke. Against Juubito is not a valid scan.
Based on literally nothing but excuses. RG Sasuke is irrelevant because Rikudo's power isn't going to make Amaterasu faster just like Kamui didn't get any faster.
Well i must disagree. There's not one feat that puts Amaterasu on Kamui's spawining speed level.
The fact it appears instantly while Kamui's barrier only appears instantly with the warp happening later on is enough.
bold: Really?
This is false. Kamui requires less charge, it doesn't travel, and it warps faster than amaterasu burns. Kamui >>> Amaterasu any day.
1. Nope.
2. Irrelevant as Amaterasu doesn't travel. Let's not start this nonsense argument up again.
3. How fast it burns is irrelevant.
Zero reason to believe he was charging Amaterasu beforehand.
And are you gonna explain why or..?
The warping speed was fast enough to prevent the stake hit the clone. Crazy fast and Obito admits it. I'm proving my point on why its warping speed is very high, and you just say is not enough to prove my point. Why? If we do:
There is no need to explain. You have to prove that it is FASTER THAN AMATERASU. Not "crazy fast". "Crazy fast" is a vague measurement, one we already knew. That's like me trying to prove that Ay is faster than KCM Naruto because he's "crazy fast". :lol
Charge time + Spawning speed + The speed it warps we get miliseconds of jutsu, and that's what Gedo Mazo took. It lost one arm before it got summoned away.
(Not to since it was a large object, it took Kakashi even more time to prep it and even more time to warp it)
Ok? :lol. I don't know how long you are going to push this point, but there are multiple scans of Amaterasu requiring little to no charge time once Sasuke got EMS so you can drop it now. They both spawn on the target at the same time, yet Kamui has to warp thus Amaterasu hits Kakashi before Sasuke gets warped away.
Obviously Gai's example is not the same. War arc Kakashi is the Kakashi that was fighting in the war. He starts the fight with the sharingan out.
No, it is literally the same exact thing. You say that because Kakashi entered the battle against Obito w/ his Sharingan active, that he should start all battles with his Sharingan active. Same goes for Gai. Please don't make excuses. "permanent state" is irrelevant nor does it make sense since Kakashi w/ his Sharingan active isn't a "permanent state" due to the fact that he covers his eye to preserve chakra.
Hagoromo, Hamura, Madara and Momoshiki all need to move up a tier. Im not sure why there is a distinction between Rinnesharingan Madara and Ten Tails Madara when he had the eye ever since he absorbed the Shinju, he just wasnt able to stall Naruto and Sasuke in order to cast IT.
He awakened the eye when he approached the moon. Even then that's irrelevant since he had no access to it's power. And I'm not going to put Hagoromo, Hamura, Madara and Momoshiki in the same tier as JJ Hagoromo and Tenseigan Hamura.
Momoshiki was beating Naruto and the kurama avatar before Sasuke assisted him with PS. It takes both Naruto and Sasuke to overwhelm momoshiki.
Yeah, in physical combat. Naruto used no Ninjutsu, and when they teamed up a simple sword slash one shotted him and his strongest technique. Naruto and Sasuke individually possess more firepower than what was used to kill Momoshiki.
Not sure why rinnegan Sasuke has his own tier above Obito, DMS Kakashi, etc. he belongs in tier 4. not sure what "Base Rikudo Naruto" is. Naruto with the cross eyes, without pigmentation but no chakra cloak is still six paths sage mode. He can simply decide whether or not to form a chakra cloak.
And no, Sasuke is above these 2. His performance against Madara, who is comfortably above Obito says enough.
"base" is only a term used to differentiate. I already know that he's still using RSM.
With the above adjustments, tier 3 and 4 should merge and just be called tier 3, but I will retain them both for the sake of simplicity. Adult sasuke should drop to tier 4. Six paths sage mode Naruto and Adult naruto should be in tier 2. Naruto is here simply because of his Asura mode. Indra and Asura belong in tier 2 alongside him due to Asura mode and Indra's arrow.
-Adult Sasuke is stated to equal Adult Naruto as per Kishimoto's statement, who is just as strong as he was in the Manga at least. The only issue is that his battle sense has dulled. So they belong in the same tier.
-Yes, Adult Naruto is in 2 already.
-Indra possessing Indra's Arrow, or at least one as strong as Sasuke's is a baseless assumption, same goes with Asura and the 3 Headed Avatar. Then again, considering Sasuke is using all of the Bijuu merged into one while Naruto is using the planet's Nature Energy, it should be pretty obvious that their mode/attack is far stronger than anything Asura and Indra can replicate on their own.
I dont know why orochimaru has all of the edo hokage when he cant control all of them. kabuto moves up to tier 5 along with orochimaru since he has no control over madara whom can just undo ET's contract.
Lmfao, how did I forget? Though how can Madara break the contract if he's being controlled by Kabuto?
Toneri was beaten by Kurama cloaked sage mode naruto. He doesn't belong on the tier of any ten tails jinchuriki. I would put him down to tier 5 in between Orochimaru and Kabuto. His performance against Naruto doesnt indicate him being able to handle a team of the hokage.
He has Six Paths Senjutsu and he has the same Gudo Dama Obito has but with extra abilities that give him more firepower. And he can cut the Moon in half. He's fine where he is. Though I'm open to a change of mind on this.
All versions of Hashirama & Madara move up to tier 4. 8th gate Gai moves up to tier 4 as well, but he barely makes it.
Lol most definitely not. Madara isn't moving up to JJ Obito and JJ Madara's level (not sure why you are telling me to move, neither is Hashirama. Gai doesn't belong on that level either when he fought a Madara w/o Gudo Dama and still couldn't kill him.
There isn't any entire tier worth of difference between BM Naruto and BSM Naruto. Naruto is simply going into sage mode using his own chakra, then merging his own chakra with Kurama's chakra. He isn't balancing natural energy with Kurama's chakra.
This is something I can agree with.
With that said, BM Naruto and Obito w/biju move up to tier 6. Ems sasuke belongs on the same tier as BM/BSM Naruto, so he moves up to tier 6 as well.
BM Naruto isn't on EMS or Edo Madara's level. Neither is Obito. BSM Naruto can come down instead They are fine where they are, and EMS Sasuke doesn't belong on the same tier as Naruto. They can match each other in physical combat with their Avatars yet Sasuke's offensive power is far far far below what Naruto can dish out while Naruto can practically take anything he dishes out.
Kinshiki & Nagato can go in the same tier. Guessing this could work since Kinshiki easily restrained Gyuuki with his weapons. Either Nagato goes up to tier 8 or Kinshiki moves down to tier 9.
Lmao, didn't even know that Kinshiki did that in the movie. I''d prefer if Kinshki came down to 9.
KCM naruto isn't on the same tier as Biju mode Bee or Obito. He can't hit Obito and Bee possesses firepower leagues above him. He drops to tier 11.
Naruto doesn't belong in the same tier as his War Arc SM self. B and Obito are the only ones in that tier that demolish him in combat anyway, so they'd go on the high end while Naruto is at the lower end.
Tobirama isn't a tier below KCM Minato. KCM Minato>Base Minato, but there isnt an entire tiers worth of difference by feats. Both Tobirama & Base Minato move up to tier 10.
Why should they move up? If anything I should be moving Minato down.
7th gate Gai drops to tier 11.
Done.
All of shinobi in tier 12 can move up to tier 11. None of those shinobi are weaker than kakashi.
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Ok.
Tsunade and Mei could move up to tier 11. All of the sannin are on the same level and I dont see Tsunade being a tier lower than Gaara. Mei can be at the bottom of tier 11.
Nah, they aren't on the same level. We can compare feats, compare the power of people they fought etc, Jiraiya w/ Sage Mode is far superior to Tsunade, and Mei is definitely not on Tier 11. The vast majority if not all would destroy her in a fight.
Kin & Gin can move up to tier 11 along with the 4th Kazekage.
Wasn't Kinkaku (or Gin? can't remember) defeated by people nowhere near the level of the people in Tier 11?
