THREAD: Why TNJ is to be celebrated, not hated.

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

u do know the real reason his tnj works cause kishi makes it work

Psst that's why everyone in naruto beats everyone in fights too. And Naruto definitely earns it.

 

[Dantee]

Having it so often is very bad imo and they all correspond with the major villians. We can't have every major villian with a heroic background that reforms later on thats pretty lame. Hopefully it will stop at MAdara and I want to see Oro as the final villian.

 

[Naruto.]

Ah! This makes me feel that the old days of NB are back. We need more threads like these. Beautifully written!

 

[EternalFlame]

So when Naruto shares his energy and everyone "connects" will that be optional among the people in the world? Will they have free-will? Or will Naruto force them into it?

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

So when Naruto shares his energy and everyone "connects" will that be optional among the people in the world? Will they have free-will? Or will Naruto force them into it?

The message seems to be in the "you want to help him" aspect of the thread. People want to naturally place their faith in him because he's a walking metaphor- that he is a blank canvas & you can see whatever you want in him. He already has the entire SA's trust, all the jinchuriki and now even Obito's. All CHOSE this path. so that's already the whole ninja world.

Everyone as a species shares that one thing in common, they all hope and a peaceful world is all any of them really want at all. Where they can be left in peace to do the things they want to do and the ones they care about are safe. That thing will be what unites them.

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[Gaara Of The Death]

Good thread.​

 

[Kakashi Hatakeo]

This is a legendary thread and everyone should read this

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Yes TNJ is in fact basically the entire overarching theme of the manga. Anyone who dismisses villains being redeemed as "tnj" just isn't getting it.

 

[Byakusharinnegan]

The reason I hate TNJ, personally, is because it just portrays all the villains in the manga as weak. How do you work your entire life for something and then you're converted by a single boy's conversation? I get what Kishi is trying to push, but can't we have someone, some villain that believes so strongly in his cause that he literally died for his cause? Deidara sort of represented that, but he wasn't up against Naruto. He didn't face the same speech and still stayed strong.

Your perception idea can be turned perfectly against you; how is Naruto the good one? Why can't we have a villain that actually believes he's right? I don't think this is a 'beautifully written piece of literature', it's honestly pretty average. This message is pushed in quite a few other manga and pieces of fiction in general.

Not to mention that it would be a welcome new addition to the series, and perhaps an important development point for Naruto. Nearly every single villain so far has been converted. As much as you want to believe, you can't change everybody. I believe it would really help if there was that one person that Naruto couldn't 'save', and he realized that some thing are just beyond him.

I'd be way more impressed if, say, Obito or Nagato had actually gone down believing that what they were doing was right, that Naruto was the evil one. That they had died for their goals.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

The reason I hate TNJ, personally, is because it just portrays all the villains in the manga as weak. How do you work your entire life for something and then you're converted by a single boy's conversation? I get what Kishi is trying to push, but can't we have someone, some villain that believes so strongly in his cause that he literally died for his cause? Deidara sort of represented that, but he wasn't up against Naruto. He didn't face the same speech and still stayed strong.

Your perception idea can be turned perfectly against you; how is Naruto the good one? Why can't we have a villain that actually believes he's right? I don't think this is a 'beautifully written piece of literature', it's honestly pretty average. This message is pushed in quite a few other manga and pieces of fiction in general.

Not to mention that it would be a welcome new addition to the series, and perhaps an important development point for Naruto. Nearly every single villain so far has been converted. As much as you want to believe, you can't change everybody. I believe it would really help if there was that one person that Naruto couldn't 'save', and he realized that some thing are just beyond him.

I'd be way more impressed if, say, Obito or Nagato had actually gone down believing that what they were doing was right, that Naruto was the evil one. That they had died for their goals.

It doesn't have to be boiled down to "good" and "evil"... Another way to think about it is living for others in a non-perverse way. Having real, actual, meaningful bonds with others. Most of the villains in Naruto either only live for themselves or live for others in a perverse way. Haku and Zabuza have a bond but up until they meet Naruto it is perverse. Nagato is acting out of interest for others but his way of pursuing that interest is perverted. Naruto is able to show them the right way to have meaningful connections to other people. It's not that Naruto is "good" its that he is able to connect to people in a genuine and meaningful way which inspires confidence in him and his beliefs.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

It doesn't have to be boiled down to "good" and "evil"... Another way to think about it is living for others in a non-perverse way. Having real, actual, meaningful bonds with others. Most of the villains in Naruto either only live for themselves or live for others in a perverse way. Haku and Zabuza have a bond but up until they meet Naruto it is perverse. Nagato is acting out of interest for others but his way of pursuing that interest is perverted. Naruto is able to show them the right way to have meaningful connections to other people. It's not that Naruto is "good" its that he is able to connect to people in a genuine and meaningful way which inspires confidence in him and his beliefs.

You said it for me bro, naruto characters aren't good and evil because Kishi clearly isn't a writer that abides by those labels but they ARE all dysfunctional. There is almost never a good motive.

Nagato. Thinks he's doing good but the way he is doing it is quite twisted and will create a world of fear. Motive at the core of it all is revenge

Danzo. Motives risen from bitter jealousy. Never a good place to start.

Madara. Knows of the Sage and this whole theme and doesn't want to abide by this system. Was a bitter old man who was wronged in his life.

They're all biased.

 

[Naruto.]

The only true evil antagonists were:

Hidan
Kakuzu
Deidara(? debatable)

 

[Mellanoma]

I agree Hanzo talk no jutsu didn't work against Nagato

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

The only true evil antagonists were:

Hidan
Kakuzu
Deidara(? debatable)

And this is only because we never explored their backgrounds. We only heard of them and never saw them. Sure Hidan could go and slaughter his own village and Kakazu could become a monster but we don't know the emotions behind these events.

Deidara IS debatable, he just became transfixed with something beautiful and twisted. I wouldn't ever even call Deidara evil really, from his relationships on screen he just seems to be an unruly brat and more of a rebel than a pure-hearted villain. Obsession is a whole different ballgame and Deidara was too deep into his. Even Kakazu from what little we've heard had a pretty good reason, sent up against the strongest ninja in the world, humiliated and betrayed by his village.

 

[fasterthanminato]

Good thread. But I don't agree with the thing that there is no TNJ. It's the name given to Naruto's ability, not a degradation.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Good thread. But I don't agree with the thing that there is no TNJ. It's the name given to Naruto's ability, not a degradation.

And to put a name onto it really diminishes it.

And the word TnJ is used a lot now by idiots who don't know the meaning of it and just use it to highlight something they don't like that happened in the manga. It holds negative connotations yknow.

Thanks for reading

 

[-ahhimane-]

I agree with you buddy =D

 

[Byakusharinnegan]

My point is, TNJ has become overdone seeing as Naruto uses pretty much the same exact speech every single time, and it's been used so frequently. Shouldn't there be someone who's immune to the TNJ? Someone that hears it and then discards it as the foolishness of a brat who, perhaps, doesn't know pain(hinthint).

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

My point is, TNJ has become overdone seeing as Naruto uses pretty much the same exact speech every single time, and it's been used so frequently. Shouldn't there be someone who's immune to the TNJ? Someone that hears it and then discards it as the foolishness of a brat who, perhaps, doesn't know pain(hinthint).

We have that. Sasuke Uchiha.

And i'm pretty sure the fandom as a whole doesn't regard Nagato's sacrifice as a good move, me included but I don't think that makes the whole mentality of the message bad.

 

[Xāvî1]

TNJ exists because it can solo any character no matter who that is!