THREAD: Why TNJ is to be celebrated, not hated.

awesomeseimei

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Ofc, I know it's fiction, don't get me wrong I just seemes to me like OP is trying to tell us Naruto is a lesson for real life.

Well, some things in Naruto can be regarded as lessons, at least something to inspire you to be a better person and such. I mean, Kishimoto is sending a positive message with his story, even if it seems too blunt at times. There's nothing wrong with it, I doubt sane people can be so naive so they'd go and try TnJ in real life on criminals/all-around jerks. But if it helps you see the world in a better life of find inner peace, why not. It does help me (not Naruto's ideals but still an aspect of the same manga).
 

Shadow Phantasm

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There really is no such thing as good and evil. These are all things that we as humans came up with, I think Naruto expresses that perfectly.​

Wrong,people who torture others and inflict horrors on them for shits and giggles are plain evil.There is a thing such as good and evil and you would have to be naive to think otherwise.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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There really is no such thing as good and evil. These are all things that we as humans came up with, I think Naruto expresses that perfectly.​

Agree. Someone said earlier that this message has no effect on real life but it really does. Obviously the NV is very different but the message still applies. It's a universal message that is ridiculously deep and impressive for a manga shonen which is pretty much a joke to anyone outside of the community.

This is why I will never call Kishimoto a bad writer.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Wrong,people who torture others and inflict horrors on them for shits and giggles are plain evil.There is a thing such as good and evil and you would have to be naive to think otherwise.

Nope sorry, you're not delving into it deep enough. That's just what the people who have come before you have told you as the people before them did the same. The laws against crimes such as murder and rape are obviously very good ones and the version of reality we live in, yes- you can call something evil. But it's still a human invention.

Much like the clock analogy: Time doesn't exist. Clocks exist.
 

Cooh

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Well, some things in Naruto can be regarded as lessons, at least something to inspire you to be a better person and such. I mean, Kishimoto is sending a positive message with his story, even if it seems too blunt at times. There's nothing wrong with it, I doubt sane people can be so naive so they'd go and try TnJ in real life on criminals/all-around jerks. But if it helps you see the world in a better life of find inner peace, why not. It does help me (not Naruto's ideals but still an aspect of the same manga).

I know what you mean, ofc the manga has some good ideals. I was strictly talking about the TNJ part and why I don't like it. You said yourself you think it's naive so we kind of agree.

That's your personal outlook on life and I can't argue with that. In real life there's the whole nature VS nuture argument and some people debating if evil is just a human invention and who then gets to decide where you draw the line on that? It's a big debate, and one none of us can answer.

In the NV world though? I'd say it's pretty solid that they're all meant to be intertwined.

Evil probably is a invention of us human, but imo you can always kind of feel if what you're doing is right or wrong (ignoring if it legal by law).
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Evil probably is a invention of us human, but imo you can always kind of feel if what you're doing is right or wrong (ignoring if it legal by law).

Very true. That's our mind trying to tell us what we're doing is wrong, but our minds are just as biased.
 

Shadow Phantasm

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Nope sorry, you're not delving into it deep enough. That's just what the people who have come before you have told you as the people before them did the same. The laws against crimes such as murder and rape are obviously very good ones and the version of reality we live in, yes- you can call something evil. But it's still a human invention.

Much like the clock analogy: Time doesn't exist. Clocks exist.
It's not a human invention.Evil is very real and there are people who commit acts so heinous it would make your stomach turn.Child rape,mass genocide,*** slaves,torture,and many other things can be called evil.
 

Cooh

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Very true. That's our mind trying to tell us what we're doing is wrong, but our minds are just as biased.

There are plenty of studies which say that even babies know right from wrong and have a sense of justice. So that arguement doesn't really stand, ofc our minds get biased over the years but you will always truly know if what you did was right or wrong imho.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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It's not a human invention.Evil is very real and there are people who commit acts so heinous it would make your stomach turn.Child rape,mass genocide,*** slaves,torture,and many other things can be called evil.

As long as you realise that's just your opinion and your stance on the world. There's no ultimate version of reality, only competing claims. The one we're in right now with evil and laws and countries dividing everything is just the current leading one.
 

vasu 32

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Thread of the DAY.

BEST THREAD.

OT- That's the reason why I fall in love with this Beautifully written piece of literature. To understand it,you need to have a very good brain with the understanding of human behaviour and the complexity involved with our emotions. If all this manga had to offer evil and good thing,villains who kill for the pleasure of killing,etc. then what's the difference? Our real world works on perception. No one is born evil,just the circumstances made them what they are. And people saying the so called TNJ doesn't happen,I say get out in the real world and see what is happening. Gandhi said,"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind". He forgave Britishers,no offence,even when they did so much shit. He became a force,who became a symbol of non-violence and slowly by slowly many Britishers too helped his cause. It exists,TNJ,just only great people use it.
 

TheMrVader

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+Rep, I agree 100% amazing Thread.

I know this is kinda a tangent, but it goes with the thread.

Does evil exist?

The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"

"God created everything? The professor asked.

"Yes sir", the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Thread of the DAY.

BEST THREAD.

OT- That's the reason why I fall in love with this Beautifully written piece of literature. To understand it,you need to have a very good brain with the understanding of human behaviour and the complexity involved with our emotions. If all this manga had to offer evil and good thing,villains who kill for the pleasure of killing,etc. then what's the difference? Our real world works on perception. No one is born evil,just the circumstances made them what they are. And people saying the so called TNJ doesn't happen,I say get out in the real world and see what is happening. Gandhi said,"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind". He forgave Britishers,no offence,even when they did so much shit. He became a force,who became a symbol of non-violence and slowly by slowly many Britishers too helped his cause. It exists,TNJ,just only great people use it.

Thank you buddy, and like all the other positive feedback- it really does set Naruto apart from the others with such a simple yet hugely important message. People dismiss Naruto as a senseless dumb anime wer ninjaz believe it as much as people horribly underestimate the character of Naruto himself.

Technically, Naruto himself is the best character in the manga. I'm no Naruto/Sasuke fanboy or anything, I like both characters equally but it really is his story.
 

DemonicAvenger

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Wrong,people who torture others and inflict horrors on them for shits and giggles are plain evil.There is a thing such as good and evil and you would have to be naive to think otherwise.

And who decides what is good and evil? We do. There's no such thing as a pre-set mentality of what good and evil is. Unless your religious. Which I don't abide by conventional religions.​
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Gotta be honest though, I want Madara to remain 'evil'.

Potentially possible actually, though I won't be surprised if he doesn't/

I mean he is actually totally aware that he is alone right now in this battle. That Naruto has joined together all of the world's shinobi, even the 5 Kage and his own disciple Obito. Maybe the reason Kishi is bringing everyone back (old Hokage, Taka, current Kage, possible Kabuto) is to highlight this, he wants everyone to be here for when they're connected.

Madara is kinda an exception because few characters have shown awareness of this bigger picture. Kakashi and Obito being the other ones. Madara is totally self-aware and knows that this Naruto connection way of life does not work and actively wants to fight it. Naruto may even try to bring him into the cycle of world peace but Madara does not trust in humanity enough. He is attached to the past and doesn't know Naruto personally.

I personally think he is the exception and that he will die outside of the cycle because he and they knew there is no place for him in this world they are making. It's possible.
 

SageOfTheTenPaths

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Talk for plot development = good. Talk for plot nonsense asspull = not good.

theres a difference.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Talk for plot development = good. Talk for plot nonsense asspull = not good.

theres a difference.

The whole story is about Naruto is uniting the world in peace. Has been for a while now.

The fights just come along with the ride. And Naruto defeated Obito physically AND mentally fair and square. The same with Pain and the same with Gaara. They exchanged fists and Naruto won them all, and then got through to them.
 

take it easy

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its a shame that this thread has only two page. OT: i agree.TNJ an excuse used by those who cant accept what happened in manga
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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its a shame that this thread has only two page. OT: i agree.TNJ an excuse used by those who cant accept what happened in manga

But it has lots of nice feedback, which is better anyday ;D

People scared of change and they think they're so smart figuring out this magic forumla and because of it the manga must be bad.
 

RasenUchihaChaos

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u do know the real reason his tnj works cause kishi makes it work
 
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