Thomas Sowell and the welfare state

slimreaper

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[video]https://youtu.be/lm-FqtAOSB8[/video]


Can you honestly watch even the first few minutes of this video and still believe that liberals help minorities?
 

FreakensteinAG

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Crony Capitalist narrative thread designed to funnel more money to the 1%, nothing to see here folks.
 

slimreaper

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Crony Capitalist narrative thread designed to funnel more money to the 1%, nothing to see here folks.

Disprove his claims.

How can you explain that blacks were doing better a hundred years after slavery, but worse 30 years after that?

Argue the facts communist, don't simply attack the idea without disproving it.
 

Pumpkin Ninja

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Yet conservatives would rather have minorities out of the country.
 
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slimreaper

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Yet conservatives would rather have minorities out of their country.

Life isn't a zero sum game. In capitalism if one man benefits, another doesn't have to lose.

Capitalists love themselves more than they hate others. So by loving himself and wanting his business to thrive, hes gonna use whatever means necessary
 

Pumpkin Ninja

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Life isn't a zero sum game. In capitalism if one man benefits, another doesn't have to lose.

Capitalists love themselves more than they hate others. So by loving himself and wanting his business to thrive, hes gonna use whatever means necessary
That is true, however, that isn't the case. In capitalism, the mentality of most is opposite.
 

slimreaper

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That is true, however, that isn't the case. In capitalism, the mentality of most is opposite.

" It's nice to elect the right people, but that's not how you solve things. You solve things by making it profitable for the wrong people to do the right things." Milton Friedman
 

Pumpkin Ninja

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" It's nice to elect the right people, but that's not how you solve things. You solve things by making it profitable for the wrong people to do the right things." Milton Friedman
How do you do that?
 

Pumpkin Ninja

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It depends on the individual case.

The example ill use is this one

Shouldn't equal pay for equal work mean in a scenario where the productivity is the same? So, it wouldn't really make sense to pay a woman less for that.

And ultimately, what happens is people keep getting desperate for the job, while the employer becomes even more powerful because there is always that person who will do more for less, like immigrants.
 

slimreaper

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Shouldn't equal pay for equal work mean in a scenario where the productivity is the same? So, it wouldn't really make sense to pay a woman less for that.

And ultimately, what happens is people keep getting desperate for the job, while the employer becomes even more powerful because there is always that person who will do more for less, like immigrants.

So your alternative is to force him to pay his workers more? How long before he ships his jobs off to china? Let's say it's a local employer like a restaurant. How long before you are ordering from a computer?

But if their priductivity is the same, then they can compete withmen and prove it. No one will be productive right from the start and women are delayed in that start. The qurstion is how to effectively get them in the door
 

Aim64C

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Yet conservatives would rather have minorities out of the country.

What gives you this idea?

That is true, however, that isn't the case. In capitalism, the mentality of most is opposite.

It doesn't matter what the mentality of people in capitalism is - that's the point.

You are never going to change the mentality of people in an economic system. They will -only- trade what they have on hand if they believe the trade to be an equivalent exchange or an advantageous one.

The illusion is that anything other than the free market/capitalism exists. Nothing else exists.

Communism/Socialism are centrally planned economies where people are arrested and killed for breaking certain rules regarding economic exchanges - but capitalism still exists. Things "fall off the truck," services are bartered on top of official currencies - and, once supply shortages occur, reservations are bartered for political/social status. You reserve a loaf of bread for the tailor, who agrees to patch your daughter's dress for free.

Capitalism is the only economic mindset there is. It is even the capitalist nature that motivates the push toward socialism. Socialism is always pushed by activists who are essentially trying to vote to use the law to increase their effective payment for the work they do. They are using laws to shift the employment contract in their favor (and often to the detriment of their employer).

You'll notice that those who own their own independent trade practices (even sole proprietorships) are not big on supporting socialism. Most business owners don't support socialism. Most middle class people tend not to support socialism.

Why? Because socialism harms them and restricts their options.

Even in Europe, where the political climate is overwhelmingly socialist - you see trends away from it as people get older and as people increase in wealth.

Socialism is simply crony capitalism where warlords like Al Sharpton and Bernie Sanders are able to use minimally educated individuals to make it sound like it's a good idea to give people the power to write laws regarding how much they should be paid.

Since everyone believes he/she is the centerpiece of society - socialism always collapses in hyper-inflation... even in communist economies where they completely eliminate private ownership.
 

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What gives you this idea?



It doesn't matter what the mentality of people in capitalism is - that's the point.

You are never going to change the mentality of people in an economic system. They will -only- trade what they have on hand if they believe the trade to be an equivalent exchange or an advantageous one.

The illusion is that anything other than the free market/capitalism exists. Nothing else exists.

Communism/Socialism are centrally planned economies where people are arrested and killed for breaking certain rules regarding economic exchanges - but capitalism still exists. Things "fall off the truck," services are bartered on top of official currencies - and, once supply shortages occur, reservations are bartered for political/social status. You reserve a loaf of bread for the tailor, who agrees to patch your daughter's dress for free.

Capitalism is the only economic mindset there is. It is even the capitalist nature that motivates the push toward socialism. Socialism is always pushed by activists who are essentially trying to vote to use the law to increase their effective payment for the work they do. They are using laws to shift the employment contract in their favor (and often to the detriment of their employer).

You'll notice that those who own their own independent trade practices (even sole proprietorships) are not big on supporting socialism. Most business owners don't support socialism. Most middle class people tend not to support socialism.

Why? Because socialism harms them and restricts their options.

Even in Europe, where the political climate is overwhelmingly socialist - you see trends away from it as people get older and as people increase in wealth.

Socialism is simply crony capitalism where warlords like Al Sharpton and Bernie Sanders are able to use minimally educated individuals to make it sound like it's a good idea to give people the power to write laws regarding how much they should be paid.

Since everyone believes he/she is the centerpiece of society - socialism always collapses in hyper-inflation... even in communist economies where they completely eliminate private ownership.

socialism is the equal distribution of poverty
 

Pumpkin Ninja

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What gives you this idea?



It doesn't matter what the mentality of people in capitalism is - that's the point.

You are never going to change the mentality of people in an economic system. They will -only- trade what they have on hand if they believe the trade to be an equivalent exchange or an advantageous one.

The illusion is that anything other than the free market/capitalism exists. Nothing else exists.

Communism/Socialism are centrally planned economies where people are arrested and killed for breaking certain rules regarding economic exchanges - but capitalism still exists. Things "fall off the truck," services are bartered on top of official currencies - and, once supply shortages occur, reservations are bartered for political/social status. You reserve a loaf of bread for the tailor, who agrees to patch your daughter's dress for free.

Capitalism is the only economic mindset there is. It is even the capitalist nature that motivates the push toward socialism. Socialism is always pushed by activists who are essentially trying to vote to use the law to increase their effective payment for the work they do. They are using laws to shift the employment contract in their favor (and often to the detriment of their employer).

You'll notice that those who own their own independent trade practices (even sole proprietorships) are not big on supporting socialism. Most business owners don't support socialism. Most middle class people tend not to support socialism.

Why? Because socialism harms them and restricts their options.

Even in Europe, where the political climate is overwhelmingly socialist - you see trends away from it as people get older and as people increase in wealth.

Socialism is simply crony capitalism where warlords like Al Sharpton and Bernie Sanders are able to use minimally educated individuals to make it sound like it's a good idea to give people the power to write laws regarding how much they should be paid.

Since everyone believes he/she is the centerpiece of society - socialism always collapses in hyper-inflation... even in communist economies where they completely eliminate private ownership.
The comments in almost every single website or article intended for conservatives, lol.


So your alternative is to force him to pay his workers more? How long before he ships his jobs off to china? Let's say it's a local employer like a restaurant. How long before you are ordering from a computer?

But if their priductivity is the same, then they can compete withmen and prove it. No one will be productive right from the start and women are delayed in that start. The qurstion is how to effectively get them in the door
At the bold, I get what you mean now.

The rest: I don't know. It really seems to me like employees are being f*cked in the end, regardless.

So it's either, be replaced by someone else, or have some shitty ass pay that you can't complain about.
 
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slimreaper

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The comments in almost every single website or article intended for conservatives, lol.



At the bold, I get what you mean now.

The rest: I don't know. It really seems to me like employees are being f*cked in the end, regardless.

So it's either, be replaced by someone else, or have some shitty ass pay that you can't complain about.



Read this it really helped me with minimum wage
 

Pumpkin Ninja

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Read this it really helped me with minimum wage
I really don't understand. Raise the minimum wage and people are f*cked, lower it, and people are still f*cked, no?

What gives you this idea?



It doesn't matter what the mentality of people in capitalism is - that's the point.

You are never going to change the mentality of people in an economic system. They will -only- trade what they have on hand if they believe the trade to be an equivalent exchange or an advantageous one.

The illusion is that anything other than the free market/capitalism exists. Nothing else exists.

Communism/Socialism are centrally planned economies where people are arrested and killed for breaking certain rules regarding economic exchanges - but capitalism still exists. Things "fall off the truck," services are bartered on top of official currencies - and, once supply shortages occur, reservations are bartered for political/social status. You reserve a loaf of bread for the tailor, who agrees to patch your daughter's dress for free.

Capitalism is the only economic mindset there is. It is even the capitalist nature that motivates the push toward socialism. Socialism is always pushed by activists who are essentially trying to vote to use the law to increase their effective payment for the work they do. They are using laws to shift the employment contract in their favor (and often to the detriment of their employer).

You'll notice that those who own their own independent trade practices (even sole proprietorships) are not big on supporting socialism. Most business owners don't support socialism. Most middle class people tend not to support socialism.

Why? Because socialism harms them and restricts their options.

Even in Europe, where the political climate is overwhelmingly socialist - you see trends away from it as people get older and as people increase in wealth.

Socialism is simply crony capitalism where warlords like Al Sharpton and Bernie Sanders are able to use minimally educated individuals to make it sound like it's a good idea to give people the power to write laws regarding how much they should be paid.

Since everyone believes he/she is the centerpiece of society - socialism always collapses in hyper-inflation... even in communist economies where they completely eliminate private ownership.
You even discussed about how the government should have me killed (I'm Muslim) and how ghetto areas, when they have riots like in the situation with Baltimore, should be bombed with air strikes. I really don't wanna read your posts now, although, I did.
 
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slimreaper

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I really don't understand. Raise the minimum wage and people are f*cked, lower it, and people are still f*cked, no?

Its a fundamental choice. Would you rather have lower wages and lower unemployment? Or higher wages for a few and higher unemployment?

Note that the low wages at the startt will come up due to competition in capitalism.

You also have to ask yourself this question... what keeps the greedy businessman from paying all hus employees minimum wage? (Only 4% of workers make minimum wage). Its the threat that someone will bid higher for his skilled workers
 

Pumpkin Ninja

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Its a fundamental choice. Would you rather have lower wages and lower unemployment? Or higher wages for a few and higher unemployment?

Note that the low wages at the startt will come up due to competition in capitalism.

You also have to ask yourself this question... what keeps the greedy businessman from paying all hus employees minimum wage? (Only 4% of workers make minimum wage). Its the threat that someone will bid higher for his skilled workers
This makes a lot more sense.
 

Aim64C

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Shouldn't equal pay for equal work mean in a scenario where the productivity is the same? So, it wouldn't really make sense to pay a woman less for that.

People often misunderstand the concept of employment.

Employment is a very simple concept. You are hired to fill a position. You are paid what the position is worth to the employer. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much effort an individual puts out.

Although a person with an expanded willingness to expend effort, or with a deeper set of skills, can effectively be contracted to adopt increased responsibilities - and therefor other positions that also have a value to the employer.

For example - I was able to take the place of control systems companies for one of my employers. I was paid extra when I did, because I was saving them money by not having to pay an outside company to take care of something I could easily do and document more thoroughly than said company would. I saw the increase in pay as being worth the effort I was expending, as it raised my standard of living.

On the other hand, people who are unwilling or incapable of expanding their endeavors into other positions are unlikely to find themselves being paid more, as they are simply being paid for a limited position.

Example - I recently took a job in fast food after moving. I am being moved around to gain experience on multiple stations. When it comes time for reviews - what is going to come up is the concept of pay. I am not just doing a single simple task - I can be moved around and am willing to work flexible schedules - which means a call to me saves managers tons of hassling over a position they are down. I am no longer simply being hired for a single position on the team - I am becoming a universal solution to manpower discrepancies.

I am more valuable to them than the kid who can only come in after school, who isn't motivated to take on new responsibilities, and who tends to be more self-absorbed in his actions (even the really good ones on night crew are just more self-absorbed because that is the mentality of teenagers - it will pass in time, but for the time being, their perspective on what employment is about is very different).

Now - is that worth $15 an hour to them? No.

Let's be honest - as employees, we are never going to insist our employer -not- give us a doubling of our wage or whatever. We want the maximum profit from our endeavors as we can get - but we have to keep in mind what is realistic from the position.

Now, that said, some of the older hats in the business have made the argument that we have a higher than necessary turnover because people who can run our registers can then turn right around and get nearly double the pay while working at another store. This makes putting a solid team together very difficult. Young adults who can take a lunch rush and turn it into a walk in the park will end up leaving in a few months to a year because the position doesn't pay enough to make it worth them staying - which means those positions are almost in a state of continual training and replacement.

I'm not convinced that simply increasing the wages would lead to them staying. It may secure solid people in those positions a little longer, but the fact is that a lot of young adults end up with some wanderlust and end up taking jobs in other towns, taking on jobs that offer new experiences more so than jobs that offer higher pay. The service industry is something only a few people really enjoy as a career-type decision.

And ultimately, what happens is people keep getting desperate for the job, while the employer becomes even more powerful because there is always that person who will do more for less, like immigrants.

This should be allowed to draw out to its conclusion.

If businesses continue to increase prices while hiring increasingly cheaper labor... eventually, what happens is the economy begins to slow down. People no longer have as much money to spend on goods and services, and will begin to contract their spending to the essentials, and choose the most cost-effective among those.

This means that businesses will be forced to lower their prices if they wish to see a return of their sales and profits. Smart business owners will undercut their competition in order to drive higher sales volume. Even if their per-sale profit is lower, their net profit is higher.

If I sell a million cookies for 1 penny more than it costs to produce each of them (labor included) - then I just made $10,000. If I sell a hundred cookies for a dollar more than it costs to produce each of them, then I made $100. If I'm charging $0.15 for each cookie in my first example, but $1.05 for my second because I'm using cheaper labor... who is actually 'winning' in this scenario? Even if I am selling to "the 1%" - assuming I am seeing 1% of the total market activity - I'm still only just breaking even with the guy who is only making a profit margin of 7% as compared to my profit margin of 2,000%
 
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