This basically counters most of the Hashirama fans' arguments

[Exaar]

Guys I have seen the light madara and hashi's landscape changing abilities is nothing compared with hiruzen and his monkey

No one but idiots claim hashirama is nothing compared to Hiruzen.

Plus you need to work on your sarcasm.

 

[Kakashi Fang]

This is just speculation but maybe the reason why Hashirama wasn't considered the strongest Hokage is because most people considered his strength a Myth/Rumor/Hoax.

Plenty of people were around to witness Hiruzen's strength while the people of Hashirama's era can no longer praise him because they are extinct lol.

Only via Edo Tensei does Hashirama receive praise from shinobi, such as Dan and Madara, because they have experienced his might(Madara), or have atleast gotten a taste of it(Dan,Tsunade).

 

[-The Agent-]

Hiruzen was a master of over 1000 Genjutsu's, he Also has a 5 in Genjutsu

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Going by databooks, but what about Manga. He had a tough time with bringer of the darkness, not to mention that was an Edo not at full power.

He was known as "the professor" for Knowing and being able to use all known (Non Kg) Jutsu's in the leaf at one Point in time.
He has shown Fire and earth, I would say it's safe to assume he can also use Water, Possibly Wind aswell.
Also having a 5 in Ninjutsu

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Yeah and Hashirama is the only Senju worth Mentioning. Who cares about nicknames. Kakashi is known as the copy ninja with over 1000 jutsus, yet we haven't seen him use close to 100. Madara could use Fire and Hashirama was still able to beat him with Earth, wood, Water. Don't give him extra affinities either. Nowhere has he ever used wind...
Even in his old age he was said to be the strongest of the 5 current kages.
Kabuto has been a Spy from a Very young age, He has spied in every village since a child , and knows things others don't know.

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Hiruzen also has Mostly all 5's in his Databook Stats. Only lacking Speed/Strength/Stamina because of his Old age.

All hype, how do you go by databooks but not manga?

Proof os his Weakening in his old age. hiruzen was suprised how heavy Enma felt in his pole form

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Proof of his stamina weakening. One of the Anbu stats his chara has declined.

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Who cares about his old age, I'm talking prime Hiruzen

Enma asked what was wrong with him and stated that he wasn't fighting like he normaly does.
Yet he was still able to hold his ground against two Kages.

Even in his old age, it was said he was Equal to Oro, when the manga had stated many times he is far weaker than his prime.

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Yeah he's same level as Oro, but Kabuto even stated himself Hashirama was a shinobi on a whole different level...Meaning stronger than orochimaru.

Even Though Hiruzen was "Slacking" and Lacking his normal fighting prowess, He still was able to Compete with both Hashirama's and Tobirama's Taijutsu while planting Tags of them.
Even oro didn't notice.

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I guess I'm going to have to repeeat myself for the remainder of this post. Orochimaru did not have the Edo's at full power. Comparing the fact that Hashirama was able to help create the final valley from what used to be a plain, shows his true strength.

Enma has already Proved to be able to Counter Hashirama's wood style.

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Look at the wood techniques Madara was able to use not to mention the pollen technique. Edo was not at full strenght, but wood is is easy to break but can Hiruzen stop the pollen? he can't see through the wood clone that pierced Tsunade. Madara said it himself that he was the only one that was able to see through that technique. Hiruzen can't either.

He has already Countered bringer of darkness.

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Note: Look at the Page, and you see "Sniff", So hirzens sense of Smell must be quite good to be able to find Hashirama and Tobirama while he is blind.

Give you credit for this one. He can break Genjutsus.

 

[WillToWin]

Hiruzen did fight Orochimaru, Tobimara, and Harashima at the same time, literally. If he got beated by Hiruzen. I just think it's hype. I also believe that Tsunade > Madara. The bitch talks a big talk because he's invincible via Edo Tensei.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

No one but idiots claim hashirama is nothing compared to Hiruzen.

Plus you need to work on your sarcasm.

Whatever hiruzen is stronger then madara and hashi that's that end of.

 

[Ryuu..]

With regards to the Edo Tensei fight. Some say Hashirama was restricted because he did not have 100% control over himself. However, he was boosted because he had regenerative abilities. Same can be said of Tobirama. Hiruzen, on the other hand, was restricted because he was in old age and unable to use many of his better jutsu due to their chakra consumption. Added to the fact that it was a 3 on 1, and Hiruzen held his own, i'd say that fight was not as bogus as many people make it out to be.

Remember. You say Hashirama didn't use all of his techs. I say Hiruzen didn't use all of his. Just something to think about.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

With regards to the Edo Tensei fight. Some say Hashirama was restricted because he did not have 100% control over himself. However, he was boosted because he had regenerative abilities. Same can be said of Tobirama. Hiruzen, on the other hand, was restricted because he was in old age and unable to use many of his better jutsu due to their chakra consumption. Added to the fact that it was a 3 on 1, and Hiruzen held his own, i'd say that fight was not as bogus as many people make it out to be.

Remember. You say Hashirama didn't use all of his techs. I say Hiruzen didn't use all of his. Just something to think about.

Part one my friend, part one. Part 2 is when kishi can reveal god like powers, so sit back and watch.

 

[Ryuu..]

Part one my friend, part one. Part 2 is when kishi can reveal god like powers, so sit back and watch.

Thanks for pointing out Hiruzen would seem stronger had he have been shown in part 2.

 

[Kratos of cruxis]

This is really sad for hashirama fanboys first was the databook was wrong now the manga is wrong next kishi is goin to be wrong...o yeah and the funny part most of them dont make since kabuto and iruka say "hiruzen was said to be the strongest" they say there wrong yet kabuto(who never seen hashirama fight) says he's powerful we are to believe that or madara(who never seen hiruzen in action as far we know) says only hashi can beat me we are to take that as fact smh its a sad day to like hashirama

 

[Prince of Persia TTT]

What the title says. The image:

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NOTE: Don't start a debate. This is just meant to be humorous (hopefully).

You are asking others??
tell about yourself
how did you get to know from kishi that Hiruzen is the strongest?? :sy:

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[Uchiha Jinchuuriki]

spartaaaa and hiruzen better

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Thanks for pointing out Hiruzen would seem stronger had he have been shown in part 2.

Only sage descendants cant reach god like or become closet to anyway (hashi madara). And even then only the chosen ones by faith in those clans

 

[TobisPawn]

You are asking others??
tell about yourself
how did you get to know from kishi that Hiruzen is the strongest?? :sy:

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Oh I dunno...from the manga and databooks maybe?

 

[Owarij]

Only sage descendants cant reach god like or become closet to anyway (hashi madara). And even then only the chosen ones by faith in those clans

You realize the sage has mannyyy descendants right"? even kin gin bros etc were descendants ...

 

[Exaar]

Going by databooks, but what about Manga. He had a tough time with bringer of the darkness, not to mention that was an Edo not at full power..

Yes he had a tough time with it, It's a very good Genjutsu.

Hiruzen was also not at full Power so they cancel each other out in that respect.

Yeah and Hashirama is the only Senju worth Mentioning. Who cares about nicknames. Kakashi is known as the copy ninja with over 1000 jutsus, yet we haven't seen him use close to 100. Madara could use Fire and Hashirama was still able to beat him with Earth, wood, Water. Don't give him extra affinities either. Nowhere has he ever used wind...
Even in his old age he was said to be the strongest of the 5 current kages.

Well it's said he knew all Jutsu's in the Leaf, Both Tobirama and Hashirama used water Jutsu's, So since he knew all existing Jutsu's in his prime he must know Water aswell.
Fuuton is very debateble because i'm not sure if it was around in the leaf during his prime.

All hype, how do you go by databooks but not manga?.

I Use both.

Who cares about his old age, I'm talking prime Hiruzen..

I'm Giving a Small view on what Hiruzen was like in his Old age.

People always claim that Edo tensei's wern't full power, yet say nothing of hiruzens old state.

Yeah he's same level as Oro, but Kabuto even stated himself Hashirama was a shinobi on a whole different level...Meaning stronger than orochimaru.

Old hiruzen was on Oro's Level, If old is on his Level then his Prime state is far above it for reason i've stated in this post about his chakra/strenght/speed being weaker due to him being old.

I guess I'm going to have to repeeat myself for the remainder of this post. Orochimaru did not have the Edo's at full power. Comparing the fact that Hashirama was able to help create the final valley from what used to be a plain, shows his true strength..

Oro said he perfected Edo tensei, Him not having them at fullpower is a mere specuation.

But it's clear he didn't go at old hiruzen with Full force from the start, For all we know he could of used their fullpowers but they got sealed befor he could use them because he underestimated old hiruzen.

Look at the wood techniques Madara was able to use not to mention the pollen technique. Edo was not at full strenght, but wood is is easy to break but can Hiruzen stop the pollen? he can't see through the wood clone that pierced Tsunade. Madara said it himself that he was the only one that was able to see through that technique. Hiruzen can't either..

While it's true that Hiruzen most likely can't see through the clones, hashirama can't see through shadow clones either.

Asoon as he saw hashirama's Mokuton he Summoned Enma without hesitation because thats his best counter for mukuton, In pole for he is both able to Break and defend against mukuton to some degree.

Also Enma in poleform has alot of strength even Pushing a full sized Kyuubi would of the village.

I would like to ask you a question about Kabuto's Statement.
Kabuto Said "that there's no shinobi on the level of hashirama senju Anymore"
The Word Anymore is key in his statement because it means there once was people Strong enough to be on his level.
Who do you think these shinobi are.

 

[Prince of Persia TTT]

Oh I dunno...from the manga and databooks maybe?

Same here
so stop asking for the number

 

[Evolve81]

Nowhere did Kabuto and Madara call him the strongest Hokage, and nowhere did they compare him to Hiruzen.

For Madara's case:
Well maybe Madara didn't know Hiruzen since they are from differing generations.

For Kabuto's case:
Didn't he mention that the first Hokage is pretty much on a higher level than any he has ever known.
Oh and if Hiruzen was so powerful and for the record I totally agree that he is super powerful by the way just don't believe he is more powerful than Harshirama, why wasn't Orochi intrigued by him? Orochi seems to only studies ninjas with unique and superb abilities.

 

[Exaar]

For Madara's case:
Well maybe Madara didn't know Hiruzen since they are from differing generations.

For Kabuto's case:
Didn't he mention that the first Hokage is pretty much on a higher level than any he has ever known.
Oh and if Hiruzen was so powerful and for the record I totally agree that he is super powerful by the way just don't believe he is more powerful than Harshirama, why wasn't Orochi intrigued by him? Orochi seems to only studies ninjas with unique and superb abilities.

Because DNA wise hiruzen isn't anything Special.

Hashirama is Special even for a Senju, Because has mokuton, It's an extremely powerful Jutsu that can controll Tailed Beasts.

Uchiha's have Powerful chakra's also oro wanted the sharingan.

Hiruzen had neither of these so Oro wasn't really interest in him.

 

[Kakashi Fang]

Hashirama was the pound for pound strongest shinobi of his Era.

Hiruzen was in Hashirama's Era, so he also is beneath Hashirama.

 

[TrollingSage]

With regards to the Edo Tensei fight. Some say Hashirama was restricted because he did not have 100% control over himself. However, he was boosted because he had regenerative abilities. Same can be said of Tobirama. Hiruzen, on the other hand, was restricted because he was in old age and unable to use many of his better jutsu due to their chakra consumption. Added to the fact that it was a 3 on 1, and Hiruzen held his own, i'd say that fight was not as bogus as many people make it out to be.

Remember. You say Hashirama didn't use all of his techs. I say Hiruzen didn't use all of his. Just something to think about.

Talk about an understatement. Oro basically removed anything that makes Hashirama Hashirama. Memories, experience, fighting style etc. Infact I dont think you could say that was Hashirama. It was essentially Orochimaru with control of Hashirama's abilities.