[VS] Third Raikage vs Minato Namikaze

[Ghost in the Shell]

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Lol not surprised users are super clueless when it comes to ayes. It's fact he chooses what he wants to electrify. The fact he uses the lightning to slice, pierce, and an armor is more then proof that it isn't just for show.

How do we know Ay wasn't just applying his own nature transformation to the water dragon, essentially making a combination attack composed of two natures? That's similar to what Darui did against Sasuke

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If Ay really had the ability to electrocute any person he wanted, why didn't he do so against Suigetsu here (who is especially weak to this due to the Hydrification technique)?

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Why didn't he do so against Sasuke?

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And before you say Sasuke can't be electrocuted b/c of his raiton affinity, he was still privy to the effects of Darui's lightning wave.

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Clarify your point for me instead of just shaking it off like you did last time, because I don't see how that scan proves your point.

Edit: How totally (un)surprising. He didn't respond because he can't counter. Lol

 

[LuckyMan]

U_U

You can clearly see Ay's hand channeling the lightning into Mei's water dragon. It's not the chakra cloak, it's Ay himself channelling chakra into his hand, then placing his hand into the water dragon. Watch the manga and you'll get a better view of it.

No different to Sasuke channeling lightning into his sword.

@First Bold

The cloak is around him. Lol

@ Second Bold

So Ay can only electrocute when he channels it from his hand but not his whole body?

Bro we both already agree Minato wins. Why are you debating this point? It makes no difference because the cloak will go away when hes under Toad Chant so whats the point?

 

[EliteKakashi]

And I'm saying that databook excerpt is wrong.

I don't mind people saying the databook is wrong, cause lord knows it has been in the past(well, not necessarily wrong, but has hyperbole or is later retconned in the manga), but you're going to have to provide some proof that it's wrong.

1. if Jiraiya could have insta-summoned them, and then take a few seconds to fuse with them using Amphibian technique, why didn't he do so? Why did he choose to use a long ritual instead when the former would have been far easier? That doesn't add up.

Who says the amphibian technique only takes a few seconds? The only time we've seen the process begin on panel, the kyuubi rejected Fukasaku. We were given no time limit or anything of the sort. So we can only assume that it takes roughly as long as it took for Jiraiya to summon them.

2. That entry says Jiraiya summons them into his body, when in reality he summoned them on to his body. So I'm taking that excerpt with a grain of salt.

No, they were summoned in to his body. They were summoned fused in to him.

There's nothing in the manga that shows us that they fused after being summoned, and the databook states they're summoned fused in to him. If you have a manga scan that refutes what the databook says, then by all means, post it, I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong on this, but there's nothing to retcon or refute the databook that I know of in this instance.

Pretty sure there are different laws of summoning regarding when a Toad Elder like Shima summons her subjects, as opposed to a regular contract between a human and the toads. Unless you think Jiraiya can summon four boss toads + Pa with a regular summoning jutsu, just like that.

There's nothing said about any different laws.

And yes, I think he can. No reason to believe he can't.

Now you might have something by saying Shima can do it easier because she uses natural energy and maybe that somehow makes it easier on her to summon from Mount Myoboku, that's complete speculation, but it's something that's feasible, I guess, so it might require a lot more chakra/stamina from Jiraiya to do so, but no reason to believe he can't.

 

[Gold Lightning]

@First Bold

The cloak is around him. Lol

@ Second Bold

So Ay can only electrocute when he channels it from his hand but not his whole body?

Bro we both already agree Minato wins. Why are you debating this point? It makes no difference because the cloak will go away when hes under Toad Chant so whats the point?

I don't care about the matchup, I know who wins already.

You're claiming a false point. Why you acting like channeling lightning is new. Sasuke, Kakashi, Bee and Darui have all done it before, each using their hands. Ay also did it with Mei's water dragon, he stuck his hand into the water and channeled lighting into it. In fact, Ay doesn't even require his lightning chakra mode to do such a thing, because any skilled lightning user can do it.

I don't care of the cloak was around him. It was lightning chakra channeled into his hand which he then outstretched into Mei's water. Darui also channeled lightning into his water wall. No lightning chakra mode needed.

Everyone who has ever touched Ay directly, while in chakra mode has never been electrocuted. Even in battle conditions. And then the only scan you can provide is the one where he uses his hand? A feat that all the best lightning users can all do. Yeah No, that's not proof.

 

[super yang]

How do we know Ay wasn't just applying his own nature transformation to the water dragon, essentially making a combination attack composed of two natures? That's similar to what Darui did against Sasuke

-implying he has 2 separate rai'ton manipulations(really now?)
-implying his visible cloak is a closed entity from his outstretched hand
-implying RnY is not a mass ''chakra flow'' ninjutsu

If Ay really had the ability to electrocute any person he wanted, why didn't he do so against Suigetsu here (who is especially weak to this due to the Hydrification technique)?

-implying suigetsu accomplished something relevant there
-implying Ei knew/thought about suigetsu's weakness or gave a damn in his bloodlust 4 the man who killed his bro
-still implying rai'ton is not rai'ton, smdh

Why didn't he do so against Sasuke?

-implying sasuke ****ing uchiha isn't a master of rai'ton chakra control
-implying that was the end of the confrontation
-implying that Ei needed to stun sasuke

And before you say Sasuke can't be electrocuted b/c of his raiton affinity, he was still privy to the effects of Darui's lightning wave.

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

-implying he has 2 separate rai'ton manipulations(really now?)
-implying his visible cloak is a closed entity from his outstretched hand
-implying RnY is not a mass ''chakra flow'' ninjutsu


-implying suigetsu accomplished something relevant there
-implying Ei knew/thought about suigetsu's weakness or gave a damn in his bloodlust 4 the man who killed his bro
-still implying rai'ton is not rai'ton, smdh

-implying sasuke ****ing uchiha isn't a master of rai'ton chakra control
-implying that was the end of the confrontation
-implying that Ei needed to stun sasuke

Bolded - I countered that, but you ignored it.

Post something that makes sense to what you're trying to prove. Post something that agrees with your premise. If not, I'm not going to respond. I have absolutely no clue what you're trying to say. Weren't you the first one on this thread that posted Ay can electrocute whatever he wants? Don't you know what burden of proof entails? Have you posted any evidence that proves your claim?

 

[Beans2]

I don't mind people saying the databook is wrong, cause lord knows it has been in the past(well, not necessarily wrong, but has hyperbole or is later retconned in the manga), but you're going to have to provide some proof that it's wrong.

Who says the amphibian technique only takes a few seconds? The only time we've seen the process begin on panel, the kyuubi rejected Fukasaku. We were given no time limit or anything of the sort. So we can only assume that it takes roughly as long as it took for Jiraiya to summon them.

The fact that the kyubi rejected Fukusaku's chakra means that Fukusaku had already gathered enough nature energy in those few seconds to enter Sage Mode, and when he began sharing that chakra with Naruto the kyubi rejected it. So no, I don't think it would take a whole chapter for Pa to merge with someone using the Amphibian technique like it took Jiraiya a whole chapter to summon those two sages.

No, they were summoned in to his body. They were summoned fused in to him.

There's nothing in the manga that shows us that they fused after being summoned, and the databook states they're summoned fused in to him. If you have a manga scan that refutes what the databook says, then by all means, post it, I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong on this, but there's nothing to retcon or refute the databook that I know of in this instance.

They were summoned

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him.

And yes, I think he can. No reason to believe he can't.

Now you might have something by saying Shima can do it easier because she uses natural energy and maybe that somehow makes it easier on her to summon from Mount Myoboku, that's complete speculation, but it's something that's feasible, I guess, so it might require a lot more chakra/stamina from Jiraiya to do so, but no reason to believe he can't.

Ma and Pa are like, the rulers of Mount Myoboku and boss toads like Gamabunta serve them. It makes sense that Shima can summon an army of her subjects at a time, don't think she just has an ordinary summoning contract with her own toads. Never once in the manga has a human summoned more than one toad at a time, and suddenly Shima summons 4 boss toads + Fukusaku. Doubt that someone like Jiraiya or Minato can do that.

Maybe Minato can summon Ma and Pa, but he would have to summon them the same way Jiraiya did.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Amphibian technique still requires concentration and hand sign. The same hand sign Jiraya used when he was summoning the toad sages. As we can see in the scan I'm about to provide. Obviously this means that either the summoner or summon can perform the hand sign for the amphibian technique:

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So even if Jiraya decided to summon them instantly, he wouldn't have been able to enter sage mode instantly because the toads would then have to perform the amphibian technique. Which I am just understanding now. That's why Jiraya took long, it was better for him to do it before, rather than after.

Summoning them after would have meant Jiraya and the toads would have to keep still and focus, which he couldn't afford. There is no "ritual" process. They are just toads and can be summoned normally, as Shima proved. The amphibian technique however is not instant, and needs time to be executed.

Again, the blood lines drawn on his face were used to summon the toads onto his body.

 

[super yang]

Bolded - I countered that, but you ignored it.

no please stop. you posted a panel of chidori stalemating RnY. 2 jutsus of the same nature.
Then U ask why the stalemate didn't end in the advantage of the non-aggressor, raikage.

now U say I can't counter your bad logic about tactical situations because the guy who was the aggressor didn't get electrocuted, even tho' he, sasuke, purposely did it to himself in the past?
And' was using a rai'ton jutsu in that panel?

please...

 

[LuckyMan]

You're claiming a false point. Why you acting like channeling lightning is new. Sasuke, Kakashi, Bee and Darui have all done it before, each using their hands. Ay also did it with Mei's water dragon, he stuck his hand into the water and channeled lighting into it. In fact, Ay doesn't even require his lightning chakra mode to do such a thing, because any skilled lightning user can do it.

If he stuck his hand in the water he would have been affected by the electrocution and numbness too Lol

His hand never touched the water. All he did was extend his cloak and channeled the Raiton through the water. As you can see, it was flowing from his entire body aka his Raiton Chakra Mode

Spoiler

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I don't care of the cloak was around him. It was lightning chakra channeled into his hand which he then outstretched into Mei's water. Darui also channeled lightning into his water wall. No lightning chakra mode needed.

You not caring if the cloak was around him doesn't change the fact it was what he used. Darui used an actual Raiton jutsu that required seals so I don't know why you're mentioning that.

Everyone who has ever touched Ay directly, while in chakra mode has never been electrocuted. Even in battle conditions. And then the only scan you can provide is the one where he uses his hand? A feat that all the best lightning users can all do. Yeah No, that's not proof.

Your point of people not being electrocuted means nothing because Ay doesn't use the Raiton armor to harm people. He uses it to invigorate his body but it doesn't change the fact that he can use it offensively and it still holds the properties of Raiton so when he does use it offensively it will electrocute and numb people, as it did Madara.

 

[EliteKakashi]

The fact that the kyubi rejected Fukusaku's chakra means that Fukusaku had already gathered enough nature energy in those few seconds to enter Sage Mode, and when he began sharing that chakra with Naruto the kyubi rejected it. So no, I don't think it would take a whole chapter for Pa to merge with someone using the Amphibian technique like it took Jiraiya a whole chapter to summon those two sages.

Or it means that Fukasaku began gathering energy and was rejected immediately.

A whole chapter makes it sound like a longer time than it actually was. It took 11 pages, and in those 11 pages there was pretty much non-stop fighting, which means it wasn't very long at all. You're looking at it taking 2 or 3 minutes at most.

He starts here:

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Finishes here:

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They were summoned

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him.

How does this change anything? They're stuck in his shoulder, summoned in to him. Look here when Fukasaku turns to to remove the rod from Jiraiya, all he has is a body, no legs/feet:

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Only after Shima leaves and Jiraiya's SM ends/he gets killed does Fukasaku's entire body appear(as there is no reason for the amphibian technique to still be going):

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Ma and Pa are like, the rulers of Mount Myoboku and boss toads like Gamabunta serve them. It makes sense that Shima can summon an army of her subjects at a time, don't think she just has an ordinary summoning contract with her own toads. Never once in the manga has a human summoned more than one toad at a time, and suddenly Shima summons 4 boss toads + Fukusaku. Doubt that someone like Jiraiya or Minato can do that.

Maybe Minato can summon Ma and Pa, but he would have to summon them the same way Jiraiya did.

It's never been done by humans likely because the amount of chakra it would require. It takes a good deal of chakra to summon Bunta alone. Thus why my comment that Shima probably can do it easier because she can use natural energy to do so.

And no, because summoing Ma and Pa the way Jiraiya did is again, summoning them into the body. That's literally the definition of Jiraiya's version of sage mode. It really doesn't get any more clear cut than this.