...................I'm sorry to not agree... "Creation of All Things", as the jutsu states, "creates things". It uses "imagination and spiritual energy" to create lifeless things from nothingness (yin) and then it uses lifeforce and physical energy to give life to these lifeless objects (yang). And this my friends is manga fact, it I'm not wrong it is stated by Tobi while he was fighting Konan, when he used the Izanagi.
That's what I'm saying you need yin and yang for things to exist;same thing applies with chakra
The older son can't only be spiritual energy with no physical energy,it says that his spiritual energy is the sages so I'm assuming that the physical energy that makes up the other part of hs chakra is his
....................
BUT, I have to agree with something...
Now that I remember, it's inside the principles of Taoism that each entity, Yin and Yang, are a whole independently. So this statement makes sense... Each branch has Yin and Yang even if they were divided, each one has Yin and Yang. The difference between these new Yin and Yang inside the original ones, is that they are "unbalanced".
So thanks for pointing it out.
PS: What rollin said makes sense with this in account. Sadly, Taoism is just a relationship to the manga, a mere theory... even I can't take it as a fact.
(Theory)How the uchiha clan's origin lies within the hyuga clan
- Thread starter rollin
- Start date
Just because he has that ability doesn't mean he created his sons. Otherwise the manga would have stated that. Also the beings we KNOW he created are immortal creates of chakra. How can you assume from this he can create mortal human beings?I'm sorry to not agree... "Creation of All Things", as the jutsu states, "creates things". It uses "imagination and spiritual energy" to create lifeless things from nothingness (yin) and then it uses lifeforce and physical energy to give life to these lifeless objects (yang). And this my friends is manga fact, it I'm not wrong it is stated by Tobi while he was fighting Konan, when he used the Izanagi.
BUT, I have to agree with something...
Now that I remember, it's inside the principles of Taoism that each entity, Yin and Yang, are a whole independently. So this statement makes sense... Each branch has Yin and Yang even if they were divided, each one has Yin and Yang. The difference between these new Yin and Yang inside the original ones, is that they are "unbalanced".
So thanks for pointing it out.
PS: What rollin said makes sense with this in account. Sadly, Taoism is just a relationship to the manga, a mere theory... even I can't take it as a fact
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If the Sage hadn't used this technique to have his sons, then there could exist a possibility of the Uchiha branch giving birth to someone with the Senju powers, because of the circumstancial manifestation of recesive genes. But for our surprises, the Uchiha clan only gave birth to Uchiha descendants.
Or, can you tell me how to create Red from Blue, being the Sage Purple?
--- To be fair, indeed in chapter 462 it is said that the decendants of the sage were "born" from him, but the circumstances of how did they were born are not explained, and it is not explained how these powers were mantained through generations from the Sage's era.
--- You have a valid point. But I can see a plot hole based on my bolded phrase... how did the clans mantain purity if they were born "naturally"? They are supposed to have recesive genes... and it seems it is not the case.
That's all well in good until you consider the fact this is a story and genetic science has no real basis in this manga. I find it pretty hilarious that you feel its more feasible the sage manifested two human beings from his thoughts, but think it's impossible for Elder sons offspring having some of the same genes as the Younger son. It's all magic man!
Also you should consider the fact the sage's sons nor their children were Uchia or Senju. The clans were form long after, and the bloodlines had thinned.
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Dude, that's deep. Theories are very used to analyze things, even the Scientific Method uses it, that's why I'm trying to analyze the situation with logic.
Now, these two last lines are very plausible for the Senju who accepted to have relationships with other clans, but the Uchiha (at least Madara) didn't think in this way. That was explained in the racconto between Madara and Hashirama. Probably the current/parents of the current generation had relationships with other clans, but even kids in Konoha academy knew that was a very noble clan... so I couldn't really say something for sure. But that is a good point indeed.
Not sure what you mean by this. If you mean the kids respected the Uchia clan, I'm sure that was due to their abilities not their lineage. Remember that most people had assumed the tales of the So6P to be a fairy tale. I'm sure most of the kids never even heard of him.
veggetta13
Active member
this looks like my first genetics class 15 years ago, but you are missing Kakashi did say Uchiha descended from the Hyuga so.. besides that, the earlier e.g. applies. Though it´s such a turn off for the fanboys xDDD !!!
(YEP, we have seen such thread before. But this guy explained it much simpler with the basics of how an offspring inherits some of the abilities of its parents, so as how this dna changes through the variety of its links )
(YEP, we have seen such thread before. But this guy explained it much simpler with the basics of how an offspring inherits some of the abilities of its parents, so as how this dna changes through the variety of its links )
You didn't mention anything about any kids in Konoha in any of your post in this thread. I can guess English is not your first language so I'm cutting you some slack, but throw me a bone here man, you make no sense right now.
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Hence that clan was noble, we can conclude Uchiha's won't have blood relationships with other clans through the creation of the Uchiha clan itself, because other clans were not as high as this one, talking about social status and blood purity (like what happens with Royal families).
In other terms, there was no way being an Uchiha that you could have a son with non-Uchiha powers. If we talk from the statement that the Sage got two sons 'naturally' then they both would have the Sage's DNA (dominant and recesive genes of the sage). The Elder Son would have Yin dominant genes and Yang recesive genes, the Younger son would have Yang dominant genes and Yin recesive genes...
So with the flow of time (in the Uchiha branch) there had to be an Uchiha who was born naturally with Yang powers (because even being recesive genes, they have the probability to be manifested as consequence of fenotype).
But this wasn't the case until Madara implanted the Senju (Yang) genes manually to awake the Rinnegan...
So the conclusion is that even if these sons had the Sage's DNA, their Yin and Yang powers couldn't be so pure through the time by coincidence... there had to be something else that divided them perfectly to be mantained without the Rinnegan being manifested again "naturally".
- By the way, sorry for the slackness... but I hate to repeat myself, and I kinda hate people who call me a slacker when they don't even do the job to read all my posts before criticizing me.
wtf are you talking about, I didn't call you a slacker. Also you can't expect people read every post you post, so get off your high horse. I don't need you to link the definition of nobility, I need you to explain how it relevant to our discussion. If that's such a hassle for you, simply copy/paste... oh wait, you never mentioned nobility before so you couldn't do that, right?
Anyway... There is no evidence in the manga that suggest the Uchia considered themselves "nobility" and certainty none stating they wouldn't have children w/ non-Uchia.
There doesn't need to be an explanation, this a kid story, sometimes authors will say things just are and we, as the readers, have to except that. You're trying to make the story of the sage his sons and the Uchia and Senju make sense in our world, but it doesn't and never will. If you want to create fan fiction to fill in these gaps left by the author that's your choice, but please don't act as if it's fact and don't expect me to respect theories based on these ideas.
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So like I said... nothing in the MANGA! Oh and Uchiha are noble but Senju are not?
Databook also say Amaretseru burns hotter than the sun... you gunna take that as face value too? Also that sentence doesn't prove your point at all. Even if it did mean noble in the traditional sense, (which it doesn't, noble here refers to the fact they are the most revered clans not that there are of a higher social class than other clans), they could still intermingle with other "noble" clans.
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If the sage used the creation of all things to create his kids they'd both have rinnegan
The sage used his spiritual energies and his physical energies for creation of all things
You have to have spiritual energies and physical energies to exist
The older son only inherited the sages spiritual energies not physical energies
If the sage used creating of all things he can't only give the son his spiritual energies and not finish creating him without physical energies and if the sage did use his spiritual and physical energies he'd have the rinnegan
He only inherited the sages powerful chakra and spiritual energies he probably inherited his mothers life-force and physical energies