Theory for unlocking Rinnegan

[Floydical]

As plausible as that sounds, I am inclined to disagree.

It was Vegeta's frustration and anger, as you point out, that triggered his dormant SSJ powers. It can also be said it was his feelings of hatred and jealousy. But is it for this very reason I disagree. Why would Kishi make direct reference to this? It seems very unlikely to me that Kishi would use this concept because it fringes DBZ. Plagiarizing this very idea from Toriyama would make Kishi look very bad since everyone knows DBZ is one of his sources of inspiration.

Also, Madara tells us he fought that fight to gain access to Hashirama's abilities and to grab a tissue sample. We also know he lived far longer than Hashirama (since his edo form is so youthful). This is also revealed to us as edo Madara asserts the landscape would be reshaped if Hashirama were still alive to fight him. This means edo Madara is aware Hashirama is long gone. He has probably known this since his seclusion in that cave before he was ever edo'd back to life seeing as he lived until a very old age.

With his arch rival gone, who would be left to oppose Madara? who would be strong enough to make Madara feel so uneasy that he be jealous of their power? Madara may still have a deep rooted grudge against shinobi in general, but he wouldn't feel the same kind of powerlessness and anger that Vegeta felt towards Goku.


So given my above 2 arguments, I don't really think the Rinnegan was unlocked by the sheer NEED for power, since that need was mostly influenced by Hashirama.

The 'need' rather than 'desire' argument was for the sake of comparing it to DBZ. Madara did create a need for it, but it wasn't a need to surpass Hashirama. It was not a case of him feeling frustrated about being beneath Hashirama, it was a feeling of frustration and hopelessness caused by living to such an old age and NOT achieving his goals.

So put simply, it was a need created by long-term frustration and despair that culminated in a single moment in time. In addition, this moment was caused by a strong feeling of hopelessness that spawned from the realization that he was not going to be able to achieve the power that he desired his whole adult life.

Again, I don't think in any way, shape or form that the 'need' we are both talking about was a result of his frustration toward Hashirama, but rather a general frustration of failing to achieve the power before he died, which in result caused him to unlock it.

 

[Chakra Wizard]

I'm actually surprised by how accurate this theory sounds. Well done, man

 

[yoshimitsu]

The 'need' rather than 'desire' argument was for the sake of comparing it to DBZ. Madara did create a need for it, but it wasn't a need to surpass Hashirama. It was not a case of him feeling frustrated about being beneath Hashirama, it was a feeling of frustration and hopelessness caused by living to such an old age and NOT achieving his goals.

So put simply, it was a need created by long-term frustration and despair that culminated in a single moment in time. In addition, this moment was caused by a strong feeling of hopelessness that spawned from the realization that he was not going to be able to achieve the power that he desired his whole adult life.

Again, I don't think in any way, shape or form that the 'need' we are both talking about was a result of his frustration toward Hashirama, but rather a general frustration of failing to achieve the power before he died, which in result caused him to unlock it.

I suppose you have to clarify your definition on need vs desire as your example does not really explain your position on the matter.

But I'll just assume need and desire to be one and the same for sake of argument.

How did he feel such hopelessness for not having completed what he set out to do? Madara's plan was set in motion since before he saved/captured Obito. It was Madara's plan all along to train a disciple otherwise he would not be able to be revived. He had been planning all those years for events that would take place much later on (namely warring). Therefore, it cannot be said that it was a feeling of frustration and hopelessness caused by living to such an old age and NOT achieving his goals. since his goals lie in the future and could not have unfolded yet.

 

[Sherlock.]

What I'm getting at is that without the Rinnegan, Madara's plan was all for not. He likely obsessed over unlocking it for decades, but to no avail. My theory is that at a certain point, near the end of his life, MADARA GAVE UP ON HIS EVIL AMBITION. In a moment of weakness, he forfeited his desires for evil and humbled himself. I feel that it was a moment of pure shame, frustration, anger and despair. THIS MOMENT is what I believe triggered the Rinnegan. I feel that he triggered a strong NEED for the power, rather than attempting to focus on his DESIRE to achieve it. Sound familiar?

This theory is based strongly off how Vegeta became a Super-Saiyan. We know that becoming a SSJ stems from a need, not a desire. Goku achieved this through a need to save his friends, embracing pure anger and hate towards Freiza, feeling completely desperate and hopeless when it came to saving his friends. That is how be became a SSJ, but when it came to Vegeta, it was a moment of weakness. In the manga, it says he unlocked it by 'getting mad at himself'. In the anime, it showed him giving up after trying for so long to become stronger. He is shown having a moment of weakness where he didn't care anymore. He embraced a moment of pure hopelessness and desperation where he had a true NEED to survive.

I don't know if that will happen or not Bro....
But....
The Theory is JUST AMAZING.... + Rep Bro....

 

[alexu9696]

In the manga, we were told that Madara awakened the Rinnegan as an old man and that Senju DNA is required to achieve it, but we don't know anything beyond that. Now simply being old does not make sense as a prerequisite to unlocking the Rinngan. Rather, i think there is a different requirement that Madara was able to meet as a result of being very old. Now Tobirama says the deeper the Uchiha descend into darkness, the more powerful their eyes become:

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This detail could extend to the Rinnegan, but it doesn't quite make sense because Madara should have unlocked it earlier if that was the case. Madara was never more dark than right after he lost to Hashirama for the last time, so if this was the requirement for Rinnegan, he would have unlocked it then. So why did Madara not unlock it until near the end of his life? That is where my theory comes in.

First, I want to make it clear that before he had the Rinngan, Madara's plan was completely in shambles. He could not really do anything without the Rinnegan and was likely desperate to unlock it in order to preserve some sort of immortality. He had Zetsu, but until he unlocked Rinngan, simply having Zetsu would not be enough. Even after he unlocked the Rinngan and gave it to Nagato, he still needed someone to convince Nagato to come to his side and go on with the plan. Madara likely planned to have Zetsu do this for him, but later settled for Obito when he happened upon him -_-.

What I'm getting at is that without the Rinnegan, Madara's plan was all for not. He likely obsessed over unlocking it for decades, but to no avail. My theory is that at a certain point, near the end of his life, MADARA GAVE UP ON HIS EVIL AMBITION. In a moment of weakness, he forfeited his desires for evil and humbled himself. I feel that it was a moment of pure shame, frustration, anger and despair. THIS MOMENT is what I believe triggered the Rinnegan. I feel that he triggered a strong NEED for the power, rather than attempting to focus on his DESIRE to achieve it. Sound familiar?

This theory is based strongly off how Vegeta became a Super-Saiyan. We know that becoming a SSJ stems from a need, not a desire. Goku achieved this through a need to save his friends, embracing pure anger and hate towards Freiza, feeling completely desperate and hopeless when it came to saving his friends. That is how be became a SSJ, but when it came to Vegeta, it was a moment of weakness. In the manga, it says he unlocked it by 'getting mad at himself'. In the anime, it showed him giving up after trying for so long to become stronger. He is shown having a moment of weakness where he didn't care anymore. He embraced a moment of pure hopelessness and desperation where he had a true NEED to survive.

That is the basis to the theory, that Madara had a moment where all his evil desires and ambitions of power left him. Where he gave up on his plans and had a moment of pure weakness and despair. I feel that this moment unlocked the Rinnegan inside him, fulfilling his life's ambition. After-which, he quickly regained his composure, and continued with his plan as he always intended.

What do you guys think? Perhaps a little too far-fetched? I honestly feel very strongly about this theory and feel that it has a lot of strong backing when it comes to the similarities between the SSJ transformation and the Sharingan. Thoughts, comments, concerns, suggestions? Tell me what you think.

maybe yes , maybe know....

Rinnegan means Samsara Eye

Samsara is the repeating cycle of birth, life, death and rebirth (reincarnation)

Its very possible that you need to die to get the rinnegan , yes death and once you get the rinnegan you revive yourself !!

Madara died of old age and then revived himself in the exact form of old age , then he got the gedo mazo to sustain himself alive , being still to old and could die very soon , again and this time for good !

 

[Kikki]

I've always seen it that he took the dna by chance after losing because he wanted to become the perfect being, a combination of Hashirama and himself. He probably also made up the moons eye plan during these years or just after the fight (someone said he made it before and only fought because of this plan. I doubt it because the fight looked like the result of grief and anger, not like a planned out event.). I do believe the rinnegan got awakened so late because it takes so long till the dnas merge. I doubt it was a sudden feeling of frustration. If you do something like that and nothing happens, it's weird to get totally frustrated after so many years.

Good question though: what did he do in all these years? Sitting around for 50 years not attacking anyone anymore? I think he broke when he got defeated, and that's when that plan grew. He most likely used all these years to study, and he did expect something to happen quicker. But he had no other chance but waiting. Then he had Nagato who was too young. Then he took his chance when he helped Obito. He seems to be someone who sees a chance in something more than planning things on the long run.

How is that with Zetsu? Wasn't he created after he summoned the statue?

Again, to see how it really was, we need his flashbacks. I wonder if he will tell us his life story like that but it would be interesting.

 

[Kikki]

Its very possible that you need to die to get the rinnegan , yes death and once you get the rinnegan you revive yourself !!

Madara died of old age and then revived himself in the exact form of old age , then he got the gedo mazo to sustain himself alive , being still to old and could die very soon , again and this time for good !

That sounds very plausible. Maybe you cannot awaken it before you're about to die or truly die. That would mess up the story quite abit though. Obito won't die if that's the case.

 

[Floydical]

maybe yes , maybe know....

Rinnegan means Samsara Eye

Samsara is the repeating cycle of birth, life, death and rebirth (reincarnation)

Its very possible that you need to die to get the rinnegan , yes death and once you get the rinnegan you revive yourself !!

Madara died of old age and then revived himself in the exact form of old age , then he got the gedo mazo to sustain himself alive , being still to old and could die very soon , again and this time for good !

The whole idea of reincarnation and deaths or near death experiences is a good one, but I don't buy it as the main theory as to how to unlock Rinnegan. It would mess with the story quite a bit if that were the case. Now I can see melding of these theories being the ulitmate reason, like the actual FEELINGS associated with a death or near death experience is actually what unlocks it, sort of what I'm implying, but I'd like to think dieing is not an essential factor for unlocking it.

I've always seen it that he took the dna by chance after losing because he wanted to become the perfect being, a combination of Hashirama and himself. He probably also made up the moons eye plan during these years or just after the fight (someone said he made it before and only fought because of this plan. I doubt it because the fight looked like the result of grief and anger, not like a planned out event.). I do believe the rinnegan got awakened so late because it takes so long till the dnas merge. I doubt it was a sudden feeling of frustration. If you do something like that and nothing happens, it's weird to get totally frustrated after so many years.

Good question though: what did he do in all these years? Sitting around for 50 years not attacking anyone anymore? I think he broke when he got defeated, and that's when that plan grew. He most likely used all these years to study, and he did expect something to happen quicker. But he had no other chance but waiting. Then he had Nagato who was too young. Then he took his chance when he helped Obito. He seems to be someone who sees a chance in something more than planning things on the long run.

How is that with Zetsu? Wasn't he created after he summoned the statue?

Again, to see how it really was, we need his flashbacks. I wonder if he will tell us his life story like that but it would be interesting.

The DNA merging is definitely a factor but we can't assume 50+ years are required to complete the process, that would make no sense at all. I really think that the feelings Madara felt in regard to his failed plans at the end of his life is what caused it. Not so much a moment of frustration, but a moment of helplessness, a moment of literally giving up on his passions and accepting defeat.

As for Zetsu, Madara had saved DNA before he was using the Mazou as a catalyst. Perhaps he didn't have the clones until he had rinngan, but it was possible he had a Zetsu clone or two created before he had the Rinngan.

 

[OfficialRikudouSennin]

Cool thread and good thoery

 

[Regulus]

Very nice theory. Seems very plausible and is likely the case.

 

[Floydical]

Cool thread and good thoery

Very nice theory. Seems very plausible and is likely the case.

Ty guys