Finally we reached the tone of a civil discussion.
Oh god. This is why I said read my points carefully. I said SASUKE was manipulated then he started following his own road.
Alright, I get it now. But his way is still similar to that of Madara. Sasuke is going down the same road.
SO you're saying the superiors are good? Tobirama was a good superior to hiruzen and danzo? Lol yeah that's why sasuke's clan was massacred so forgive sasuke for not respecting his corrupt superiors.
So you say ALL superiors are bad? How is Kakashi-as Sasuke's superior-, bad? And the point is that to maintain order, you need leaders and superiors. Killing all the 5 leaders would just lead to anarchy- out of which Sasuke wants to rise as the leader (alone!- and that is tyranny). Noone really trusts him. Do you think the shinobi would let him kill their leaders? They may be flawed, but they also did good things. Just look at how they cheered when Gaara held his speech. And if these shinobi would oppose Sasuke, do you think he will step aside? No, he will erase all obstacles (=anyone who opposes him). He treats people as tools. Sure, shinobi are supposed to be tools, as Zabuza and Haku said. But how does Sasuke wants to change that, when he also treats people as tools?
Also, the current superiors (= 5 kage) have nothing to do with the Uchiha massacre.
OK I understand. Thanks for clarifying. It's just from your conversations with sir derp who is a blatant sasuke hater and how you can't understand what I'm saying to you about sasuke, I assumed you hate him. My fault.
It's ok. I think I have fair points so I'm not an unreasonable hater >__> I just don't like his arrogance- in general, even in real life I don't like that.
See right here. You're assuming what indra did was a bad thing. Do you truly believe that you don't beed strength in order to obtain peaxe? Lol I'm not saying his way only is right but you're flat out rejecting his idea of peace. ok now I know you think he's wrong. Yes his means are extreme but sasuke is right about the state of the world and his wish to reform it shouldn't go unnoticed
Yes you need strength but do you think Ashura was weak? Or was Hashirama (Ashura's reincarnation) weak?? Is Naruto weak???
And yes, I think that if everyone else wants to follow a path, and that one person is going against all the others, that's wrong.
Wow do you know what went down in the uchiha senju fight? They were at war with each other before madara and hashirama were born. Of course he was going to oppose him. But for some reason after a truce was set, the village started to distrust the uchiha and chose tobirama instead of madara to be hokage with hashirama. That's why madara opposed hashirama and the uchiha clan too by leaving the village. Madara helped establish the village but the people didn't want him to be hokage how screwed is that. Favouritism much?
But there is a reason why they didn't trust Madara, right? It was said that even the Uchihas started to distrust Madara. One needs to earn respect and trust, not just take it for granted.
Also I don't support one guy trying to change the world but sasuke isn't one guy. He has his supporters.
Who? Karin, who is just obsessed with him coz of his looks? Juugo who is only with Sasuke coz he promised to Kimimaro? Suigetsu who wanted to run away many times? Orochimaru, whose methods are probably the worst in the series, and who just decided to see how's Sasuke will turn out to be? And do you think that Sasuke cares about their opinion? He was only using them to begin with. And ok, then it's 5 persons vs everyone else. Not much better. But again, we are talking about Sasuke's methods and ideals- and those 4 wouldn't make a difference, as Sasuke alone wants to decide the fate of the world.
Not if the people don't know anything. No I don't support tyranny which is why I said not his method alone will work.
Don't know what?
Alright.
It's not vengeance. It's nothing personal he just wants to execute the kages. He doesn't care who they are.
He is still driven by the vengeance he feels because of the Uchiha massacre and Itachi. It's not personal against the 5 kages- but against the system. And it's still his personal rebel. And I will again ask, how is killing the kages necessary for a positive change?
He still asked him didn't he. He could have just killed him without saying anything Lol.
Why ask if he doesn't care about the explanation behind it?
Danzo was stupid enough to anger him when sasuke was psychotic.
@bold And that's why I wouldn't trust him with leading the world. You know that when it comes to the Uchihas, the more hatred they have, the stronger they get. Sasuke is quite powerful now- so imagine how much hatred he has. Naruto told back then that he will take away Sasuke's hatred- I hope that will happen in their final fight.
Right so he was just going to show up and start killing? If he questioned danzo, he would've questioned other people as well
He said he will kill every single person in Konoha. No questioning here. Especially that only Danzo and the elders knew about the massacre's real reasons- so what would have been the point of asking the clueless people? He already knew the truth from Danzo anyway.
He did Chase after him right?
But it still was only a coincidence that they met. And it's only understandable that he wanted to talk to his dead brother. And even after that, he said nothing Itachi says will change his mind. So he was not really interested in the truth.
No in his mind the system is already destroyed. He wants to rebuild. Yes he has broken free from his clan's curse but not sure about indra's influence.
He still said later that he will delete the past. Now that's a little naive, don't you think? How can he delete the past , like, can he delete it from people's memory?
And btw, it was only because Suigetsu took him the scroll that Sasuke decided to bring back Orochimaru ( to revive the hokages). How is that seeking the truth on his own? He first said that he will still destroy Konoha- regardless of what Itachi says- so if Suigetsu hadn't taken the scroll to him, maybe Sasuke would have never changed his mind. I understand this was his decision- but it's not like he wasn't influenced to do so, and too many coincidences had to happen for that. And even now, his change is mostly that instead of destroying Konoha, he wants to destroy the whole system now.
No lol that's not what I said. I said you're not understanding what I'm saying and you think naruto's way of peace is better in spite of the negative results of his ancestors and allies in the kages.
We were talking about if Sasuke's way is more understandable than Danzo's. Yes it is, but I said it doesn't mean his methods is better. You said he is better as a character. I said it's subjective. You said no. But who's gonna decide what makes a character objectively better? Can I say Naruto is objectively better than Sasuke? Anyway, look at this thread for example. Many people think Danzo is one of the best written characters.
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And again, there is no perfect system. Of course even in Naruto's way of peace, the new system would be flawed. But that's something people together should solve. No sane person can truly support that Sasuke alone has the right to decide how the system should be, and kill people whom he holds responsible, and put away people whom he treats as obstacles. I never said Naruto's way will create a flawless world- but his methods are better, and yes, everyone together are more likely to create a better world than Sasuke alone.
I'll just copy paste something from another post of mine:
Anyway, of course the system should be changed. Noone denies that (at least not me). But change doesn't mean it has to be destroyed. And it's not up to one person to decide. The problem is not the 5 kages. It could be any leader- noone is perfect and if Sasuke thinks that he can (alone) build a system where things like the Uchiha massacre will never happen- then he is naive. You say he is so realistic and can make harsh decisions- but then why can't he accept the harsh decision of Danzo? He wanted to destroy Konoha (and the only reason he didn't do it was because Pein had already destroyed it, so Tobi showed up and gave Sasuke a new mission, to capture Bee). He said that he would kill every single person in Konoha. Including children. Sure, he didn't do it, but again, it's only because he didn't get the chance. So his ideals are nothing better than that of the very leaders he wants to destroy. So I have serious doubts if Sasuke would make a good leader at all.
As for the Bijuus, well, they can be used for bad and good things. It's like nuclear power. It can be used for weapons, but also as a source of energy. Are you saying that we should stop using nuclear energy to prevent nuclear weapons? I don't think that's how it works.
In other threads, I proposed that if anything, then it's the feudal system that should be abolished. Because it's the feudal lords that hire ninjas to fight. Feudalism should be replaced by democracy- not tyranny. I think the ninja nations should form a union/(con)federation. Maybe they could maintain a joint army. And there could be a dual leader system- Sasuke and Naruto. I also don't mind if Naruto will offer the seat to Sasuke alone. But this one person- revolution is just a big no.
