Scans that say how a spiritual weapon is more powerful, and scans that show the 'great detail' that went into it? Kishi never said either of those things, so you're BSing.
2nd argument ok that makes sense but the first one no just no; the yata mirror deflects elemental jutsu/physical attack which the totsuka word isn't also the sword only sucks in living things because how are you supposed to put an eternal genjutsu on a non-living tool. The paradox you're looking for is the 3rd raikage's strongest weapon vs his body: the strongest defense xd
So, after browsing through a fair few threads recently, i've realised that there still remains a considerable about of Yata Mirror wank among some members on this forum. Ultimately, this was what compelled me to create this thread, as the 'Yata Mirror blocks all' excuse is beginning to wear very thin.
The Paradox Argument
I'll begin by presenting the Paradox Argument. Now, I know that many people will always bring up Yata's databook entry whenever discussing topics which revolve around the shields capabilities. Let's take a look;
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Indeed, the Yata Mirror has been described as a shield which can repel any attack. Alot of people have wrongly taken this statement to be absolute, and i'll further explain why.
Many diehard Itachi followers will have you believe the Sword of Totsuka is able to suck up anyone or anything it pierces into its gourd, thereby sealing it in a "blissful genjutsu" for eternity. This is where the Paradox arises. If it's true that the Totsuka blade vaccums up and seals anything it pierces, it stands to reason that it should vacuum up and seal the Yata Mirror. However, the problem is that the Yata Mirror is said to block and deflect any attack! Those two sentences are mutually exclusive and cannot both remain true at the same time.
Kishimoto further complicated matters by introducing the bluntsword, Kabutowari. He described it as the sword that crushes all defenses.
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Logically, 'All defences' includes the Yata Mirror itself, leading us to conclude that it would be able to crush the Mirror; this is an impossibility due to the authors previous description of the Yata Mirror.
There cannot be an immovable object (Yata Mirror) if there remains an unstoppable force (Sword of Totsuka/Kabutowari) - this is the conclusion reached by those who can use basic logic. The hype from one object contradicts the hype from another, and people must not be under the illusion that one 'hype' is superior to another.
So what on earth was Kishimoto on about then?
It was actually a basic use of hyperbole - obvious and intentional exaggeration or an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as "to wait an eternity." Kishimoto has used hyperbole many times in this manga:
- To call Minato unparalled
- The Yata Mirror invincible
- Kisame not even being 'able to make a difference against' Jiraiya
- Amaterasu is 'as hot as the sun'
- To describe Hashirama as being a fairytale similar to the Sage of 6 Paths.
People need to understand that such statements cannot be taken to be the literal truth; Kishi overexaggerates what he says about characters/objects in order to better describe them.
Now, back to the Yata Mirror. There is another argument, one regarding Elemental Properties. However, i'm not going to go into detail about this at this current time. What I will do is look at the particular pattern that this manga is seemingly taking. Initially, Kishi introduced Gaara's sand as a perfect defense which could not be defeated. Neji's was said to be even more perfect than Gaara's, although we now know that this is hardly the case. Even the Triple Rashoumon was descirbed as being a perfect defense; this being after it had been defeated by Bijuu Dama.
So what should you take from this thread? Simply, there is no invincible object in this manga. Granted, the Yata Mirror is one of the best defences, although it does not offer 360 degree protection (i've seen a number of people claim it does). I would just like to see the notion 'Yata Mirror pawns all' expelled from this forum.
. everything has a weakness nothing is invincible. eventually something will surpass the other just like Gaaras so called Ultimate defence. Zetsu did state the Yata Mirror can repel any attack but everything has a weakness and I can assure you the Yata Mirror will have one.
. everything has a weakness nothing is invincible. eventually something will surpass the other just like Gaaras so called Ultimate defence. Zetsu did state the Yata Mirror can repel any attack but everything has a weakness and I can assure you the Yata Mirror will have one.
stop just stop.
nothing can/will EVER break through the yata mirror the yata mirror is basically a mythical weapon taken from japanese mythology itself as it the totsuka blade. The very way it works is by matching the elemental affinity of anything that hits it no matter what. This weapon is meant to be the ultmate shield and nothing could ever break it
the 7 swordsman sword said to crush all defenses is simply that. SAID. its like an urban legend it works for most but not all obviously
your logic on the first point is flawed as well. Many professional physicists them self have pondered over the ancient paradox of the immovable object versus the unstoppable force, so why would kishimoto try to break this with him being a mere manga writer. You are looking to far into this when kishi has made it pretty clear that those two are the ultimate weapons
by comparing things like minatos skill, gaaras defense, and other things of that nature is comparing the spiritual to the physical which im sure as you know the spiritual far outclasses spiritual things. Like i said yata mirror and totsuka blade are basically two god like weapons which kishi has made perfectly clear cannot be surpassed and any other thoughts than that are
completely idiotic
Great thread OP, although...as you're probably noticing, it won't make much of a difference to Itachi fans who will protect their god over their life.
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I also think another hyperbole worth mentioning is "Haku is lightspeed in mirrors", if that even is a hyperbole considering he literally reflects into mirrors.
I find it retarded how people discredit the entire databook and call it shit because of ONE "incorrect" statement "Amaterasu is hot as the sun" despite it being obvious hyperbole and they fail to know not ot take things so literally.
Pretty unrelated though I think lol, good thread.This is ridiculous, your first point is baseless and your second point is russel's teapot logic and also baseless.
"it has never been shown being broken and you cant prove that it's breakable therefore its unbreakable" seriously what is this
i wont even attempt to break this one down
you guys act as if kishi cant use metaphors or hyperboles in his own manga
not only has it been stated in the manga countless times that the nothing can get through the yata mirror but also in the databook both of which were written by kishimoto. for a person that says you hate how people discredit the databook here you are discrediting something that is not a metaphor like "ameterasu burns as hot as the sun" but something that is explicitlly stated that nothing can break through its defense. tobi said that once something is trapped in kinkau and ginkaus goursd it will never come out. Is he wrong? Hidan said hes immortal is he wrong? if you guys are gonna start saying things in the manga are wrong than take your retard logic elsewhere and stop reading it
stop just stop.
nothing can/will EVER break through the yata mirror the yata mirror is basically a mythical weapon taken from japanese mythology itself as it the totsuka blade. The very way it works is by matching the elemental affinity of anything that hits it no matter what. This weapon is meant to be the ultmate shield and nothing could ever break it
the 7 swordsman sword said to crush all defenses is simply that. SAID. its like an urban legend it works for most but not all obviously
your logic on the first point is flawed as well. Many professional physicists them self have pondered over the ancient paradox of the immovable object versus the unstoppable force, so why would kishimoto try to break this with him being a mere manga writer. You are looking to far into this when kishi has made it pretty clear that those two are the ultimate weapons
Ah i see the mistake you are making here, you are using common sense or common logic and what you should be using is your naruto sense and naruto logic. Also ABC logic does that apply here if this happens to this it should happen to this example that seven swordsmen defence destroying sword would you have liked kishi to have explained in explicit detail what that weapon works on and what it dosent work on, if he did that this manga would last waaaaay longer. Use your naruto sense and logic. Sword of totsuka pierces everything and totsuka mirror blocks everything and so using the sword to say the mirror dosent block everything isnt kind of fair considering itachi was in possession of both and its not like anyone could take his sword its spiritual and i could simply say they dont work on each other and are meant to be used as a pair /end thread.
Ah i see the mistake you are making here, you are using common sense or common logic and what you should be using is your naruto sense and naruto logic. Also ABC logic does that apply here if this happens to this it should happen to this example that seven swordsmen defence destroying sword would you have liked kishi to have explained in explicit detail what that weapon works on and what it dosent work on, if he did that this manga would last waaaaay longer. Use your naruto sense and logic. Sword of totsuka pierces everything and totsuka mirror blocks everything and so using the sword to say the mirror dosent block everything isnt kind of fair considering itachi was in possession of both and its not like anyone could take his sword its spiritual and i could simply say they dont work on each other and are meant to be used as a pair /end thread.
The fact that you said you can something about going around the Yata mirror, means that it being invincible still holds true.
Cause if you go around it you basically given up on trying to break it
Thats the shields job
However Yata mirror hasnt failed yet unlike some other things, so why say otherwise?
So, after browsing through a fair few threads recently, i've realised that there still remains a considerable about of Yata Mirror wank among some members on this forum. Ultimately, this was what compelled me to create this thread, as the 'Yata Mirror blocks all' excuse is beginning to wear very thin.
The Paradox Argument
I'll begin by presenting the Paradox Argument. Now, I know that many people will always bring up Yata's databook entry whenever discussing topics which revolve around the shields capabilities. Let's take a look;
You must be registered for see images
Indeed, the Yata Mirror has been described as a shield which can repel any attack. Alot of people have wrongly taken this statement to be absolute, and i'll further explain why.
Many diehard Itachi followers will have you believe the Sword of Totsuka is able to suck up anyone or anything it pierces into its gourd, thereby sealing it in a "blissful genjutsu" for eternity. This is where the Paradox arises. If it's true that the Totsuka blade vaccums up and seals anything it pierces, it stands to reason that it should vacuum up and seal the Yata Mirror. However, the problem is that the Yata Mirror is said to block and deflect any attack! Those two sentences are mutually exclusive and cannot both remain true at the same time.
Kishimoto further complicated matters by introducing the bluntsword, Kabutowari. He described it as the sword that crushes all defenses.
You must be registered for see links
Logically, 'All defences' includes the Yata Mirror itself, leading us to conclude that it would be able to crush the Mirror; this is an impossibility due to the authors previous description of the Yata Mirror.
There cannot be an immovable object (Yata Mirror) if there remains an unstoppable force (Sword of Totsuka/Kabutowari) - this is the conclusion reached by those who can use basic logic. The hype from one object contradicts the hype from another, and people must not be under the illusion that one 'hype' is superior to another.
So what on earth was Kishimoto on about then?
It was actually a basic use of hyperbole - obvious and intentional exaggeration or an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as "to wait an eternity." Kishimoto has used hyperbole many times in this manga:
- To call Minato unparalled
- The Yata Mirror invincible
- Kisame not even being 'able to make a difference against' Jiraiya
- Amaterasu is 'as hot as the sun'
- To describe Hashirama as being a fairytale similar to the Sage of 6 Paths.
People need to understand that such statements cannot be taken to be the literal truth; Kishi overexaggerates what he says about characters/objects in order to better describe them.
Now, back to the Yata Mirror. There is another argument, one regarding Elemental Properties. However, i'm not going to go into detail about this at this current time. What I will do is look at the particular pattern that this manga is seemingly taking. Initially, Kishi introduced Gaara's sand as a perfect defense which could not be defeated. Neji's was said to be even more perfect than Gaara's, although we now know that this is hardly the case. Even the Triple Rashoumon was descirbed as being a perfect defense; this being after it had been defeated by Bijuu Dama.
So what should you take from this thread? Simply, there is no invincible object in this manga. Granted, the Yata Mirror is one of the best defences, although it does not offer 360 degree protection (i've seen a number of people claim it does). I would just like to see the notion 'Yata Mirror pawns all' expelled from this forum.
1. The Sword of Totsuka seals anything it pierces. It cannot pierce the Yata Mirror so there is no contradiction there.
2. If you are seriously comparing Kabutowari's offense to the Yata Mirror's defense then there is something seriously wrong. The description of Kabutowari comes from it's obvious hammer - nail like function. It is a simple weapon and shouldn't be compared to higher tier tools.
3. The description of the Yata Mirror should be enough when comparing its defensive capabilities to physical world objects such as the Rashomon or Gaara's sand. These physical objects do not change in properties. Their composition and therefore defensive power is set. No matter how much you compress sand or refine metal, it has its limit realistically. The Yata Mirror's, an ephemeral object, description states that it changes its properties of composition to counter whatever attack strikes it. If fire hits it then it might use water to nullify it. If something of large force hits it then it should become proportionally stronger to resist the attack. That is what its description set by the DB and actual characters, Zetsu, states.
4. I believe that the Yata Mirror does have a set shape, that is why it is called the Yata Mirror, due to its appearance and ability to deflect any attack, and not the Yata Armor. If it could change its shape and offer 360 degree protection then it would always cover the entirety of Itachi's Susanoo to offer no openings whatsoever. The only way to get past the defense of Yata Mirror is to go around it and not through it.
