The Uchiha coup and massacre: still a mystery

[drslim]

So we have finally heard Itachi's confession. However, two important points still have not been explained:

1) why did the Uchiha rebel and what was their plan

The most important thing here is that the Uchiha must have realized that they had no chance of winning, even if they had sufficient motivation to fight. This has been pointed out on NB:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

The most likely idea here is that the Uchiha planned to gain a powerful weapon. We know that they might have wanted to use the Kyuubi, especially since people in Konoha thought they were behind the Kyuubi attack anyway! There is only one problem: you need the MS to control the Kyuubi. And none of the Uchiha (apart from Shisui at the time) had the MS.

A possible explanation is that Tobi encited the Uchiha to rebel and promised them their support. Then, he joined up with Itachi and killed the Uchiha. This would make Tobi the mastermind behind both the Uchiha coup and massacre. It would mean that Tobi manipulated Danzo, Itachi, and the Uchiha.

2) why Itachi killed his family and all the clan

Many people on NB thought that Itachi was not sufficiently motivated to kill his family and clan. It would have taken a real fanatic to do this, even if he would consider it. Besides: why on earth did Itachi trust Danzo to keep his part of the deal and not to kill Sasuke?

And here's what I think. I believe Itachi lied to Sasuke again.

What would be a motive for Itachi to kill his family that he would have liked to keep from Sasuke?

Only something that would cause Sasuke even more pain, and something that would justify Itachi's actions.

What if the Uchiha (and Itachi's father, who was not such a nice guy anyway) tried to kill Itachi? There would be at least two reasons for that:

1) Itachi was a spy, and they could have discovered this. They suspected him anyway
2) killing Itachi would give the killer the MS. And this was needed in order for the Uchiha to win.

I believe that there are only two explanations that make sense:
1) Tobi enticed the Uchiha to rebel and promised them his support
2) the Uchiha tried to kill Itachi and gain the MS

The second explanation additionally gives Itachi a very good motive to kill his family and the clan. Self-defense!

 

[-S-]

Why are you confusing things?

1) Because they were tired of being oppressed

2) To prevent a war outbreak and save Sasuke

 

[Tsuki]

Why are you confusing things?

1) Because they were tired of being oppressed

2) To prevent a war outbreak and save Sasuke

^100% this!! *Beep* the senju

 

[TheFifthMizukage]

Why are you confusing things?

1) Because they were tired of being oppressed

2) To prevent a war outbreak and save Sasuke

this.

 

[drslim]

Why are you confusing things?

1) Because they were tired of being oppressed

2) To prevent a war outbreak and save Sasuke

Sorry for confusing you

Even if the Uchiha were oppressed, their decision to start a coup without a chance to win is not logical. You do not start a coup to be killed.

Do you imagine killing your own parents to stop a war?

And besides, why did they not try to arrest the Uchiha? Why was it necessary to kill them? At least that is what Itachi could have attempted to do, especially if he used Tsukuyomi.

 

[drslim]

^100% this!! *Beep* the senju

I'm not a Senju fan, and frankly I think that the Third was totally lame in this case.

But it is just not a good enough explanation... Using Tsukuyomi, Itachi could have tried to arrest all of his family and stop the coup. Without the leaders, the Uchiha clan might have surrendered.

There was another way.

 

[-S-]

Sorry for confusing you

Even if the Uchiha were oppressed, their decision to start a coup without a chance to win is not logical. You do not start a coup to be killed.

Do you imagine killing your own parents to stop a war?

And besides, why did they not try to arrest the Uchiha? Why was it necessary to kill them? At least that is what Itachi could have attempted to do, especially if he used Tsukuyomi.

1) Yes, but they had the spirit to regain their pride.

2) Because Hiruzen wanted to save their name and not let Konoha know of the plan.

 

[Tsuki]

I'm not a Senju fan, and frankly I think that the Third was totally lame in this case.

But it is just not a good enough explanation... Using Tsukuyomi, Itachi could have tried to arrest all of his family and stop the coup. Without the leaders, the Uchiha clan might have surrendered.

There was another way.

You cannot arrest the police itself at that time the uchiha clan was the Konoha police force

 

[drslim]

1) Yes, but they had the spirit to regain their pride.

2) Because Hiruzen wanted to save their name and not let Konoha know of the plan.

You mean that the Uchiha leaders decided that their children needed to die for the clan's pride?

The Third was just procrastinating. He would not have made a decision to attack the Uchiha if it could be avoided. If he could have stopped the Uchiha by some other means, he would have done so. It was Danzo that made the decision to kill them.

 

[drslim]

You cannot arrest the police itself at that time the uchiha clan was the Konoha police force

Even if this would not be possible, wouldn't you try it if you were Itachi?

 

[Hipster Madara]

I would like to know their plans as well.
Some things don't add up here. Starting to think that Senju were pretty evil as well.

 

[drslim]

I would like to know their plans as well.
Some things don't add up here. Starting to think that Senju were pretty evil as well.

Thanks! I think so too!

Itachi did not tell Sasuke the whole truth. He just did not want to cause his little brother any more pain.

But the truth is, without a good plan, the Uchiha would never have gone this far!

 

[drslim]

Why are you confusing things?

1) Because they were tired of being oppressed

2) To prevent a war outbreak and save Sasuke

One more thing. This sums up Kishi's explanation so far really well. But, this explanation would make Kishi look sooo lame... I do not think he takes readers for such naive people. He must have something up his sleeve.

 

[Urda]

I agree, and along with Ninetails Fox, that the Uchiha could had a possible plan that could turn the tides of the Civil War into their favor. It gets me wondering, what really happen that night of the Kyuubi/Tobi Attack? The Uchiha's were absent. +Reps

 

[nataku]

Why are you confusing things?

1) Because they were tired of being oppressed

2) To prevent a war outbreak and save Sasuke

^this... :scorps:

 

[drslim]

I agree, and along with Ninetails Fox, that the Uchiha could had a possible plan that could turn the tides of the Civil War into their favor. It gets me wondering, what really happen that night of the Kyuubi/Tobi Attack? The Uchiha's were absent. +Reps

I agree that this is suspicious. Remember the event when Kushina (pregnant) met Sasuke's mom? The wife of the Third was concerned that Kushina was giving away information about her birth.

When you connect this with what happened, it seems evident why everyone started suspecting the Uchiha. This might have led to their quarantine and to a sense of being oppressed and isolated.

Still, I do not believe that this was enough to start a doomed rebellion. The Uchiha were still quite well off! They could just wait to restore their reputation.

 

[Unleashed26]

they thought they could win because they were the police force and like with every uchiha except for itachi, his mother, shisui, obito, and hiruzen's teammate they all have a god complex and believe they cannot be rivaled.

 

[repulse]

Sorry for confusing you

Even if the Uchiha were oppressed, their decision to start a coup without a chance to win is not logical. You do not start a coup to be killed.

Do you imagine killing your own parents to stop a war?

And besides, why did they not try to arrest the Uchiha? Why was it necessary to kill them? At least that is what Itachi could have attempted to do, especially if he used Tsukuyomi.

Of course it isn't logical, but then again the clan is known for the Sharingan. Quality over quantity I suppose.

If you were traumatized by war like Itachi was, you would do all that is within your ability to prevent war from happening. Utilitarianism also comes into play.

The Uchiha were in charge of Konoha's Military Police Force, so... it would have been a no-go. It is necessary to kill the Uchiha because it would have been rather difficult to maintain peace within the village, especially how things were at that time, with word spreading about that an Uchiha was behind Kurama's rampage upon the village. Itachi COULD have used Tsukoyomi, but it's use would have proved worthless, especially when even Shisui's KA failed to stagnate the Uchiha's plans.

Just my thoughts is all.

 

[drslim]

Of course it isn't logical, but then again the clan is known for the Sharingan. Quality over quantity I suppose.

If you were traumatized by war like Itachi was, you would do all that is within your ability to prevent war from happening. Utilitarianism also comes into play.

The Uchiha were in charge of Konoha's Military Police Force, so... it would have been a no-go. It is necessary to kill the Uchiha because it would have been rather difficult to maintain peace within the village, especially how things were at that time, with word spreading about that an Uchiha was behind Kurama's rampage upon the village. Itachi COULD have used Tsukoyomi, but it's use would have proved worthless, especially when even Shisui's KA failed to stagnate the Uchiha's plans.

Just my thoughts is all.

You may be right about all that.

But my point is, if you were Itachi -- would you think about all these things, or try to save your family, while stopping them from starting a rebellion? Even against all odds?

Itachi acted like a stupid fanatic, unless he was defending himself against his own clan/family.

As somebody pointed out, Itachi was a 12 year old boy, manipulated and frightened, traumatized by the war. But even so -- that was a reason for either doing nothing, or collaborating with someone he could trust. Why did he choose Danzo and Tobi, out of all people?

 

[repulse]

You may be right about all that.

But my point is, if you were Itachi -- would you think about all these things, or try to save your family, while stopping them from starting a rebellion? Even against all odds?

Itachi acted like a stupid fanatic, unless he was defending himself against his own clan/family.

As somebody pointed out, Itachi was a 12 year old boy, manipulated and frightened, traumatized by the war. But even so -- that was a reason for either doing nothing, or collaborating with someone he could trust. Why did he choose Danzo and Tobi, out of all people?

Being Itachi and his analytically self, I'm sure he considered it. But, I think he realized that he was helpless to try and stop his clan from thinking about rebellion. He had been given 2 options by Danzo, and he chose the one option that would allow the Uchiha clan to live on in the form of Sasuke.

Remember that the reason Itachi did all of this was because of Sasuke. He loves his younger brother quite alot. I doubt he trusted Danzo, but maybe he did, just enough to believe his word the Sasuke would be safe. As for Tobi, he placed conditions upon their collaboration. He would aid him in exacting revenge on the Uchiha (whose motive for revenge is unknown, to this point), but only if he never attacks Konoha again, and stays away from Sasuke. The bond between brothers is quite strong.