+rep great thread I actually enjoyed reading all of it..(and i dont like reading at all xd)
I only have one question-
ok so your saying the uchiha clan's dojutsu is incomplete and it goes through various stages and the senju/ uzumaki clan on the other hand is complete from the start. Why is that? How come they are not even despite inheriting an equal portion of the sage's power? By no means, I am saying your hypothesis is wrong. But I think there is a missing part to this puzzle. Killing friends and siblings to obtain the eye power of the sage who was supposedly a good guy/ a saviour, it doesn't all add up. Its as if the uchiha clan in particular is cursed by someone/ or something. I doubt 'HATRED' is the only thing thats making the uchiha clan blood soaked. There is another missing piece of information wish I knew what that is.
:shrug:Well, there are several ways to obtain one kind of power, e.g there's the illegal way of awakening mangekyou sharingan which is to kill your best friend and there's the legal way which was used by Itachi,Kakashi,Shisui etc whichever way that is, so one may awaken rinnegan without taking Senju powers, but rinnegan can still be obtained in that way!!
There are soo many good points here. Senxy comes up with viewtiful things in support of it's an evolution. I believe it too but what i also believe in is that you need a certain senju dna to unlock it's full potential. I believe this partly because.If the first sons lineage could go through evolutions then why couldn't the second's? If the eyes are the sharingan's cycle then couldn't the senju's life force and that also be something that can be unlocked? We all agree that the senju's dna is like an amplifier right? so let's get to my point.
Let's take hashirama for example. In HIS TIME he is proclaimed by all as the greatest ninja. His sole element in which only he had was wood with which he could summon forests in an instant and stuff. What if this was because he had unlocked the full potential of their lineage's genes much like the sharingan unlocks further things. That would then give madara the spur to fight him and solely him to in turn push his boundaries to unlock his to the highest aswell.
Then we have the 2nd Tobirama. if he wasn't at his prime when madara was around then what if he came to his prime later on?? there is no evidence to support or disclaim it so let's say it is a possibility. If he were to unlock the full potential later on then this would explain why madara only fought the best senju. Tobirama was considered a master of the water style which was his element. But then they say he was soo legendary he could do them without any water source near him? would explain why he could use such powerful jutsu with out any source of water. He had unlocked the potential of his genes and was able to amplify the things he had ie water in the air and hashirama's growth of his wood/forest jutsu's. Would also add a valid point onto why madara could do the 1st's jutsu past what the 1st could do. coz madara now has both senju and uchiha and full potential.
Another point that validates my statement is that of naruto. It's still kinda shady that uzumaki and senju are related. But if they are it will support this. Naruto has been growing and unlocking more and more which everybody thinks is coz of nine tails. but i believe it has actually solely been from him and his perseverance. And what if naruto has just reached his full potential just recently? ie when naruto was with yamato on the island. Yamato grows a massive totem statue thing and gives a direct reference to naruto and his life force being the reason? soo this helps say that nauto is a senju and he has evolutionised his senju genes to it's full potential!!!
all i am saying is that you may not need the senju dna to unlock the rinnegan but you damn well need it to do the crazy impossibilites!! then this would open the idea sauke is yet to unlock his potential. coz right now if they would go head to head naruto would mop the floor with him. How many sage clones did he make and wipe all the other enemies out?? and this is another example that he recently unlocked it. Also if naruto and bee are going on par with jinchuuriki's both with sharingan and rinnegan if it was soo good without senju they woulda annhialated him already. All wells gg on this post hope youread it
That's all fine and well dude, but you've just said that you don't need senju DNA for the unlocking of the Rinnegan and that you damn well need it to unlock the other bloodline jutsu. This is already clear, right?...I mean... Madara took Hashirama's DNA so that he could use Mokuton; why would he need senju DNA for the Rinnegan, if his ancestor was also the Rikudō Sennin?... makes little sence... although fighting Hashirama, thinking about this on a complete different level, could damn well cause the EMS to evolve into the Rinnegan, as in completing ones soul purpose.
And yes... the Senju can also unlock their powers to their full potential, but the things is that the Sage's younger son had his fathers powers already when born... the older son didn't, at least not to the full potential. From this come the two different beliefs of the brothers, ...and eventually the choice the Rikudō Sennin made when he named the younger son his heir. Causing the Uchiha Clan Ancestor's thirst for power.
This discussion is about the origin or let's say the evolution of the Rinnegan and not the other jutsu...
+rep great thread I actually enjoyed reading all of it..(and i dont like reading at all xd)
I only have one question-
ok so your saying the uchiha clan's dojutsu is incomplete and it goes through various stages and the senju/ uzumaki clan on the other hand is complete from the start. Why is that? How come they are not even despite inheriting an equal portion of the sage's power? By no means, I am saying your hypothesis is wrong. But I think there is a missing part to this puzzle. Killing friends and siblings to obtain the eye power of the sage who was supposedly a good guy/ a saviour, it doesn't all add up. Its as if the uchiha clan in particular is cursed by someone/ or something. I doubt 'HATRED' is the only thing thats making the uchiha clan blood soaked. There is another missing piece of information wish I knew what that is.
I don't think he meant the Senju blood was complete from the start.
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Tobi says right here clearly that both the Uchiha and Senju blood were thinned. I think what Blaze was trying to say they both have different thinned down variations. And that the Rinnegan is a Uchiha variation only, not a Senju variation. I'm not him though so don't quote me on that.
I think that Rikudo Sage had physical powers not related to his eyes that we don't know about. And how the blood has thinned for the Uchiha resulted in weaker eyes, The thinned blood for the Senju is probably in their body or actual bloodline or something. Like how the Senju had amazing healing abilities, the Uzumaki (a weaker version of the Senju bloodline) have good healing abilities but not as good as the Senju had because their blood thinned
+rep great thread I actually enjoyed reading all of it..(and i dont like reading at all xd)
I only have one question-
ok so your saying the uchiha clan's dojutsu is incomplete and it goes through various stages and the senju/ uzumaki clan on the other hand is complete from the start. Why is that? How come they are not even despite inheriting an equal portion of the sage's power? By no means, I am saying your hypothesis is wrong. But I think there is a missing part to this puzzle. Killing friends and siblings to obtain the eye power of the sage who was supposedly a good guy/ a saviour, it doesn't all add up. Its as if the uchiha clan in particular is cursed by someone/ or something. I doubt 'HATRED' is the only thing thats making the uchiha clan blood soaked. There is another missing piece of information wish I knew what that is.
^^ lol yea been lookin at a few threads and got mixed comments in lol. But who is to say that the younger was complete in any way? it is all based off assumptions. they both might of been at the same level but the aura the younger gets from life force makes him look at full evolution.
Then if you are to say that sharingan is an evolution. then who is to say that the byakugan can then not be evolutionised? as it is a doujutsu and meant to be relative of the sharingan? Also i'm not sure if it actually does say but i am damn sure the madara has never once said he acquired hashirama's dna? if i am incorrect and you have evidence i will correct my statement.
With the relatives i have seen insufficient proof to say that the uzumaki are relatives other than hashirama and mito? then if you say that they are distant relatives doesn't that make it they are relatives of the uchiha aswell? seeing as they are both lines of rikudou?
but as you say i will agree that you do not need the senju dna to unlock the rinnegan. But my theory is for it to be complete you need both an uchiha and a senju to have both complete versions of their gifts given to their line. hence some of the posts before.
^^ lol yea been lookin at a few threads and got mixed comments in lol. But who is to say that the younger was complete in any way? it is all based off assumptions. they both might of been at the same level but the aura the younger gets from life force makes him look at full evolution.
Then if you are to say that sharingan is an evolution. then who is to say that the byakugan can then not be evolutionised? as it is a doujutsu and meant to be relative of the sharingan? Also i'm not sure if it actually does say but i am damn sure the madara has never once said he acquired hashirama's dna? if i am incorrect and you have evidence i will correct my statement.
With the relatives i have seen insufficient proof to say that the uzumaki are relatives other than hashirama and mito? then if you say that they are distant relatives doesn't that make it they are relatives of the uchiha aswell? seeing as they are both lines of rikudou?
but as you say i will agree that you do not need the senju dna to unlock the rinnegan. But my theory is for it to be complete you need both an uchiha and a senju to have both complete versions of their gifts given to their line. hence some of the posts before.
Naruto Uzumaki; Tobi can tell that the fire of the Senju clan dwells within Naruto... I mean, it's obvious...
The proof:
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I rest my case.
Idk if Madara said he took DNA from Hashirama... but he did fight him for a reason.
And I've said that the younger's inherited powers were at their full potential at the start, or at least at a greater level, but not the older ones. I never said that the older couldn't be stronger sometime in the future... get it? They both got their parts, but one was just better suited for the powers he was given (the younger), so he was named the heir and all...
This is one of THEE threads that ive been keeping under my sleeve for a while and for various reasons didnt want to create it. What i will say though is, if you do not read the whole thread i guarantee you'd still be dumbfounded about the whole rennigan issue. Anyway i will be explaining;
Hashirama's abilities
What the EMS is and its purpose
The final stage of the sharigan
Similarities between the younger and older son, Hashirama and Madara and Naruto and Sasuke and more importantly why sasuke will get The rennigan
The first question is what is Hashirama's abilities. I will not go through every technique yamato or anybody else has shown us because although his ability is very important to understand, the purpose isnt to show off his abilities.
Ability to suppress jinchrucki;
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Ability to use 3 Elements;
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Ability to control the environment;
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Medic ninjutsu rivals Tsunade;
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Hashirama's life force. His genes not only grows zetsu but makes them stronger;
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Life force not only increases duration of izanagi, it also decreases the time duration of KA (Kotoamatsukami);
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Had a number of Tailed beasts under his control;
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He reeks of OP, doesnt he? xd. That isnt what this thread is about though. Now that we accustomed to Hashirama's abilities, the question is if you are a power hungry ninja that have fought him several times, wouldnt you want such abilities?, i know i do, but forget about me. Tobi talking as Madara, revealed that he fought to gain access to his many abilities. Now Tobi had no reason to lie and he didnt, because the real madara revealed exactly what Tobi said and yes Madara did fight to gain access to Hashirama's abilities;
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The manga has made it painfully clear how OP hashirama. The manga has made it painfully clear that madara is a power hungry bastard, but also fought to gain access to hashirama's many abilities. Even when he was brought back to life, he sounds like a character who's rivalry with Hashirama turned into a one sided crush wit him constantly talking about hashirama, but also so far he has depended on the abilities he stole. Clearly he very much likes hashirama's abilities, even saying he was the only one that could see through hashirama's mokouton clone. Dan said the only person who could defeat madara was hashirama. Hashirama's abilities was called a fairly tail. He was said to be stronger than madara. The manga has made it very clear that, at that time only Hashirama could stand up to madara;
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Im not sure about you but if senju dna is what is needed to activate the rennigan, i wouldnt go after the top dog of the senju. Id go after any other senju, defeat them and take their dna, after all its been clear that only hashirama could defeat him. Thats what im trying to say, senju dna isnt needed or else madara wouldve beaten any other senju and taken their dna. He wanted hashirama's abilities and thats why he fought to gain access to these abilities which the manga has made painfully clear. U_U
Next is what is the EMS and its purpose, well apart from stopping the blindness process, there are improvements that ive noticed from the ems. Basically we all know that its a combination of 2 ms's and when you look at both madara and sasuke's eyes you cann see izuna's and itachi's ms design in their eyes respectively.
Itachi;
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Sasuke's;
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EMS Sasuke;
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Izuna's;
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Madara's;
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EMS Madara;
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Being a combination of 2 ms's it increases the power of the users doujutsu techniques. For example ms sasuke's v1 susano was penetrated by A, yet A didnt even leave a mark on madara's v1 susano.
Sasuke's v1;
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Madara's v1;
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Next alot of people keep saying kishi has allowed sasuke to gain a huge chakra reserve or the ems gives the user a chakra boost and that is false. From what ive seen the ems allows the user to use its techniques with minimum chakra drainage. You can go as far as saying an ems user using its technique's drains little to no chakra no different to an uchiha using the sharigan in battle which again drains very little chakra. Sasuke could hardly maintain a v1 susano and just before he went blind activated a final susano. Yet with the ems he was able to activate its final form with ease. Similarly madara has been able to activate a further advanced susano with ease.
Madara;
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Sasuke;
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But it doesnt end there. The ems is a stepping stone to greater things. You can say the EMS = KM (naruto) and ill explain that later on. Anyway another misconception about the EMS, is that it stops the user's eye from bleeding. Personally im not sure where people get these misconceptions from but the manga has made it very clear that it doesnt;
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The greatest misconception of all is that an ems user gains a 4th technique. That my friends was a mistranslation from manga reader who are notorious for their mistranslations. This is the real translation;
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As Itachi said, "The transplant gave birth to a completely new doujutsu". He didnt say the translate allowed the user to activate a 4th technique. That was a mistranslation. Ill come back to that page again and fully explain.
Anyway i did say that the EMS was a footstep to greater things and that the EMS = KM (Naruto). KM, naruto was a footstep to greater things and that was BM naruto;
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Now that we know that KM was a stepping stone to BM naruto and KM naruto was incomplete. The question is What is the stepping stone, the next stage of the EMS. The answer THE RENNIGAN
How do i know this?. How do you activate THE RENNIGAN, there you go;
Yes the EMS is a stepping stone to the rennigan and ill explain. This image speaks volumes alone. Ill cut it apart and further explain;
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In the first image the one above, Itachi was blantatly talking about the EMS when he said and i quote; "A permanent Mangekyou Sharingan!. By changing hosts the younger brothers eye found an inextinguishable light!". The Ems is what he is blatantly talking about.;
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Now im certain by now youve noticed that above the 4 sharigans there is something that looks very similar to the rennigan and ive clearly highlighted it in red. That my friends in the rennigan, notice how its above all 4 sharigans. Notice how itachi talks about the ems then above it we have something that looks like the rennigan. What i will say is that the 4 sharigans symbolises the EMS because 2 sharigans = 1 MS. 2MS = EMS, therefore 4 sharigans = EMS.
In the next image please, focus closely on Itachi's words. In the top image he was clearly talking about the EMS. He then went on to say in the next image and i quote " But that was only half the story. The transplant also gave birth to a completely new dojutsu;
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I know although itachi didnt say anything about the rennigan, its blatently obvious that this what he was hinting although he didnt say that. Now alot of people will say how does itachi know this, only madara activated the rennigan. But you see, forget the fact that itachi is extremely knowledgeable and focus on the uchiha tablet, that he read and told sasuke to read;
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Its this same tablet that contained the secret of madara's body;
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Now it seems like madara wrote the secrets of his body/rennigan on the uchiha monument stone after obtaining the rennigan, therefore although he can fully read the tablet because he has the rennigan, he would pass on some of the information of the rennigan that his descendants with the shairgan couldnt read.
I know that it was said that the higher your advance from the sharigan, ms, ems, rennigan the more you can read the tablet. Madara with the ems, read majority of the tablet, but obviously couldnt read it all because he didnt have the rennigan. This is the hypothesis that i believe he formed. The first one is how the sharigan overall works. We all know that in order for an uchiha to gain the sharigan, they must have a near death experience. We then found out that in order to get the ms somebody close to you must die. We then found that in order to get the ems you must take your siblings who has the ms and with that you have effectively killed them because they now have no eyes. In all the stages of the sharigan death is somehow related to achieving greater power, activating a higher doujutsu and this is why i believe madara fought hashirama. I believe apart from the fact that he also wanted his abilities, hashirama was the only person at that time who could awaken madara's rennigan. Only he could challenge madara and allow him to have a near death experience;
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Madara further clarifies that yes after having a near death experience, he activated the rennigan ;
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He said he awakened it shortly before his death, but the time duration between him activating it and dying isnt as short as he says. In that 'short' time he wrote the secrets of his body on the uchiha tablet and gave nagato the rennigan, which has been clarified by madara himself that, yes he did give nagato the rennigan to revive him later on.
The next question is how am i certain that the rennigan is the final stage of the sharigan. Not that difficulty really, the manga has not only bad it blatantly obvious, it has basically said it here "What awates you when you progress beyond the sharingan, is THE RENNIGAN;
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Never ever in the manga has it said that senju dna was needed and never ever did madara or kabuto say this. The manga has however not only made it undoubtedly clear, its even said it there and then. The rennigan is the natural evolution of the sharigan. The final stage of the sharingan
So how is sasuke going to get the rennigan. Well ive told explained to you that EMS= KM (Naruto) and that both EMS and KM are incomplete. Both are a stepping stone to greater things. Kishi has said that both naruto and sasuke grow as a pair. Lets be honest here, bm naruto would annihilate sasuke xd. This is how sasuke will get the rennigan, this is the link between naruto and sasuke and hashirama and madara;
Ems sasuke right now is the 2nd strongest ninja's alive right now (excluding madara (kabuto)). The only ninja excluding kabuto, that is above him is naruto. Excluding kabuto, the only ninja alive that could stand up to sasuke is naruto (I hope you guys are noticing the similarities between naruto and sasuke and hahsirama and madara - history is repeating itself).
Now ill show you the outstanding similarities between the 3 generations (older son and younger son, hahsirama and madara and naruto and sasuke. The older son was said to have gained the sage's 'eyes' and powerful chakra. Whilst the younger son was said to have gained the sage's body and life force;
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In you look carefully, which two looks complete?. Its very clear that the younger son was more complete than the older son. Although the older son got the sages 'eyes' we can all see that it looks like a weaker rennigan, whilst the younger brother seem to have gotten everything that was given to him, the older brother didnt.
Thats the same with hashirama and madara. Hashirama represents the younger brother (descendent obviously). Hashirama was complete, whilst madara (descendent) wasnt, he still had the EMS which you could say represents the older brothers eyes. Also notice hashirama's life force, that i uploaded a while ago. Able to increase the duration of izanagi, grow and make zetsu stronger and decrease the time duration of KA.
History has again repeated itself. Naruto is now the younger brother (descendent obviously, albeit an uzumaki) whilst sasuke is the older son (descendent). Sasuke like the older son and madara, are incomplete. They might have have the sage's eyes, but they do not have the rennigan (just yet anyway). Naruto, like the younger son and hashirama are more complete, but also naruto has followed this step and showed us the life force of the younger son, no different to hashirama's life force;
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So whilst the older son and his generation have always been incomplete, the younger son have, but this is where it gets interesting. I believe after years of fighting, after a final battle, the older son experienced a near death moment which allowed him to activate the rennigan and become complete, just like the younger son.
No different to how after years of fighting, after a final battle madara after experiencing a near death moment activated the rennigan.
History will no doubt repeat itself, this time in naruto and sasuke. After a final battle, sasuke the older brother (funny enough sasuke is also older than naruto by a couple of weeks), will awaken the final stage of the sharigan after facing a near death experience. This has not only been set in stone, the fight in part 1 was for telling of things to come. Its naruto, that funny enough caused sasuke to activate the final stage of the sharigan which was his 3rd and final tomoe, at the same location did hashirama cause madara to awaken the final, final stage of the sharigan which is the rennigan;
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Naruto will cause sasuke again to awaken the final stage of the sharigan. This time not a the 3 tomoe sharigan, but the final stage of the sharigan. THE RENNIGAN
That ^^^^, my friends is the secret behind everything and im out :izuna:
Edit: I thought it was clear that madara gave nagato the rennigan, but since people arent sure, ive added this to the OP.
Nagato's rennigan was transplanted;
Its been brought to my attention that all this time ive been spelling Rinnegan wrong :sy:.
Anyway alot of people are asking about nagato. How he isnt either uchiha or senju. I thought it was clear therefore i didnt explain his scenario, but since it isnt ill explain it.
First of all nagato didnt activate the rennigan, it was given to him by madara. How do i know this. Firstly Tobi speaking as madara said it here;
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He speaking as madara prior to his fight with konan said that nagato was supposed to use rin tensei for him;
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So basically tobi talking as madara said that he gave nagato the rennigan, but also nagato was supposed to use rin tensei for him.
Now madara has clarified what tobi says. When madara first came out,the first person's name he said was nagato. He then said that it would appear that nagato had grown. This speak volumes. Madara gave nagato the rennigan, so that nagato would revive him later on, and thats exactly what tobi has said;
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Secondly how do i know that nagato's rennigan is transplanted. Well firstly because nagato didnt activate the rennigan. When nagato was a child, his hair had always covered his eyes. We never got to see his eyes, until when he beat that rock chunnin, during his training with jiraiya, did we see that he had the rennigan. He always had the rennigan, but didnt show it until the rock chunnin scenario.
Also the rule with implanted dojutsu is still consistent if the member isnt an uchiha. For example, have you ever seen nagato turn off the rennigan?. Have you ever seen nagato do this;
Sharingan;
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Ems;
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Rennigan;
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The fact that nagato cannot revert back and fort from the rennigan should tell you that it was transplanted. It a doujutsu has been transplanted and at the moment its transplanted it had the rennigan activated, thats the eye that would be transplanted and remain. No different to how the sharigan was at the time of transplant was activated therefore, thats what the receiver of the eye gets. This is constant with kakashi. At the time of of his transplant obito's eye was the sharigan therefore thats what remained consistent and kakashi cannot deactivate the sharigan no different to how nagato cannot deactivate the rennigan.
The next issue is why did madara give nagato the rennigan and i believe the kakashi and danzo scenario says it all. We know that if a non uchiha gains their eyes, because they do not have the body if they allow the sharigan to remain viisble it completely drains their chakra and thats why both kakashi and danzo have their sharigan eyes covered, to reduce the chakra drained.
Nagato on the underhand doesnt seem to have this problem because he is an uzumaki. Nagato has the powerful chakra that you could say rivals an uchiha for his rennigan eye to stay constant and not drain his chakra like kakashi and danzo who cover their sharigan. Basically here. Kushina's powerful chakra;
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Nagato's powerful chakra;
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Thats what im saying. Madara gave the rennigan to someone with powerful chakra, because that is what is needed for such a doujutsu like the rennigan. If kakashi had the rennigan, id guarantee he'd run out of chakra in a minute xd.
Also note that madara has also been said to have very powerful chakra, even for uchiha standards;
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This was first said by kurama, who also compared sasuke's chakra to madara's;
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So basically madara gave nagato the rennigan because nagato like himself (madara), had powerful chakra, chakra powerful enough to withstand the rennigan
mmmm… on second thought... I have a theory... feel free to poke at it. I would prefer you to anyway. ok here goes.
Why did oro and subsequently kabuto want Sasuke's body? according to kabuto...he is closer to SO6P than anyone else... all he needs is Sasuke's body.
My theory. The SO6P split his power in two body+life force vs chakra+power in order to balance things out. Hence the First son DID not receive the real rinnegan because he didn't have the chakra to maintain...The younger son did... Is it not easier to say not the union of the older and younger son would unlock SO6P true power's i.e rinnegan + creation of everything technique? Could it not be argued that one needs an amazing chakra source in order to control rinnegan/powerful dojutsu techniques? It was seen that the younger bros dna is a sharingan enhance but what if it also necessary in order to achieve power resembling SO6P? not to contradict myself... a large chakra reserve is needed to maintain rinnegan but younger son's dna needed to activate it. we can only assume that the older/Son1 unlocked rinnegan after battle sith Son2... no one knows the outcome of that battle... den of course uchiha and senju are generations from original bros so some unlocking and downgrading are expected… even in senju.. 5th hokage cant compare to 1st...
Just to clear up some confusion, when people earlier on this thread were saying "If the Sharingan is the natural regression of the Rinnegan, then why didn't Madara get The Elder Son's eyes aswell?" The answer, or at least I think is this:
1.) When you get 3 Tomoe Sharingan, you CAN'T simply revert to 1 Tomoe.
2.) When you get EMS you CAN'T revert back to MS.
Therefore, if Madara were to get the "True Rinnegan" (The one he has now) perhaps he did get the Elder Son's version, but was never able to revert back to it once he had the S0T6P's Rinnegan. Feel free to poke holes. Note: I'm simply assuming you can't revert back, I'm not saying you can't as a fact, but rather as an assumption.
mmmm… on second thought... I have a theory... feel free to poke at it. I would prefer you to anyway. ok here goes.
Why did oro and subsequently kabuto want Sasuke's body? according to kabuto...he is closer to SO6P than anyone else... all he needs is Sasuke's body.
My theory. The SO6P split his power in two body+life force vs chakra+power in order to balance things out. Hence the First son DID not receive the real rinnegan because he didn't have the chakra to maintain...The younger son did... Is it not easier to say not the union of the older and younger son would unlock SO6P true power's i.e rinnegan + creation of everything technique? Could it not be argued that one needs an amazing chakra source in order to control rinnegan/powerful dojutsu techniques? It was seen that the younger bros dna is a sharingan enhance but what if it also necessary in order to achieve power resembling SO6P? not to contradict myself... a large chakra reserve is needed to maintain rinnegan but younger son's dna needed to activate it. we can only assume that the older/Son1 unlocked rinnegan after battle sith Son2... no one knows the outcome of that battle... den of course uchiha and senju are generations from original bros so some unlocking and downgrading are expected… even in senju.. 5th hokage cant compare to 1st...
good one...but still ...why DNA... they essentially have almost the same DNA... Madara took the slightly altered Hashirama's DNA for the reason of being able to use Mokuton...IMO because using Mokuton ...is pretty badass ...it's a crazy jutsu ...powerful like hell
Just to clear up some confusion, when people earlier on this thread were saying "If the Sharingan is the natural regression of the Rinnegan, then why didn't Madara get The Elder Son's eyes aswell?" The answer, or at least I think is this:
1.) When you get 3 Tomoe Sharingan, you CAN'T simply revert to 1 Tomoe.
2.) When you get EMS you CAN'T revert back to MS.
Therefore, if Madara were to get the "True Rinnegan" (The one he has now) perhaps he did get the Elder Son's version, but was never able to revert back to it once he had the S0T6P's Rinnegan. Feel free to poke holes. Note: I'm simply assuming you can't revert back, I'm not saying you can't as a fact, but rather as an assumption.
Im new here so first off hi everyone.
ive read over all of this thread and the idea i formed was the same as god of uchiha's.
its possible for the uchiha at their best to acheive eyes like the first son's, but to achieve the eyes of the SO6P the 2 sons would have to be "combined", considering he split his power between the two and ended up with a incomplete rinnegan.
after saying that i believe madara had the incomplete version and fought hashiirama because he knew that he needed "the other half" of his ancestor to have the complete power and eyes like the SO6P originally had.
im no expert but this is my take on the issue feel free to point out flaws i welcome constructive criticism.
