The problem with the Naruto/Kurama argument

[UltraPain]

Susano stroring more chakra than Kurama doesn't mean that it give him chakra. Sasuke took that somewhere else.

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Omg go read my earlier posts before I have to slap someone -__-

I said Sasuke can use his Rinnegan abilities to steal chakra and then store it within Susano'o like he did in VOTE2. His Susano'o can clearly store more chakra than the amount Kurama can even handle (9 bijuus worth is more than Kurama).

Sasuke being able to store more chakra overall and Kurama being able to generate chakra but with less of a storage threshold seems pretty fair to me.

Again I think this is another way his Susano'o and Kurama balance out.

 

[TNC Xlll]

Then what about this

Susano'o also gives Sasuke enhanced chakra, near complete invulnerability, flight, genjutsu protection, and more.

Susano'o can be used with the rinnegan to steal and store chakra from anyone so I think it's pretty much the same as Kurama making some of his own. Also don't forget that by storing that chakra Sasuke's Susano'o can hold much more chakra then even Kurama can.

The feat goes for Sasuke not susano, because he was the one who made it to strore the chakra. Susano cannot do anything on his own unlike Kurama.

 

[NarutoX28]

I don't know where he got that idea from. Susano'o is a manifestation of Sasuke's Chakra, it does not give him more Chakra.

As for Sasuke awakening his powers because they were handed down to him, no he did not. He had to suffer through pain, sorrow, and loss in order to awaken the Sharingan, was forced to listen to how his entire life was a lie fabricated by his own brother and how his own village that raised him made him suffer, and to have to even get involved in an almost seemingly life-threatening situation to earn Itachi's eyes.

Yeah, he deserved Itachi's eyes unlike Madara where Izuna literally gave it to him due to being on his deathbed.

 

[~Uzumaki~]

I don't know why this argument matters so much. I guess some people are looking for some excuse to defend their favorite characters inability to beat Naruto. Regardless, it is a pointless statement to make; that Naruto doesn't deserve Kurama's power or that it's unfair.

In the recent era of asspulls and handouts that befell the series towards the end, I think Naruto is one of the reasonable ones since he did not actually grow exponentially strong for no reason. The power belongs to Kurama and is willingly freely given to Naruto. To say that Naruto did not, to a great degree, earn this privilege is an outright lie.

Kurama was sealed into Naruto at the cost his parents' lives. Everyone seems to have quickly forgotten how Kurama used to deliberately give Naruto chakra to protect his life and to weaken the seal to its breaking point. Or how Kurama's presence impeded Naruto from passing the academy final exams multiple times and from performing certain techniques efficiently or even at all. How about the hatred and animosity that characterised his childhood because of the fox? And the number of years it took to gain the fox's trust. And the fact that housing the fox was what attracted Akatsuki. Kurama's presence did not come without its disadvantages and Naruto certainly paid his dues for his power.

Other characters merely stole DNA samples or used their brothers eyes. If anything is unfair, its that.

 

[SW442]

I don't know why this argument matters so much. I guess some people are looking for some excuse to defend their favorite characters inability to beat Naruto. Regardless, it is a pointless statement to make; that Naruto doesn't deserve Kurama's power or that it's unfair.

In the recent era of asspulls and handouts that befell the series towards the end, I think Naruto is one of the reasonable ones since he did not actually grow exponentially strong for no reason. The power belongs to Kurama and is willingly freely given to Naruto. To say that Naruto did not, to a great degree, earn this privilege is an outright lie.

Kurama was sealed into Naruto at the cost his parents' lives. Everyone seems to have quickly forgotten how Kurama used to deliberately give Naruto chakra to protect his life and to weaken the seal to its breaking point. Or how Kurama's presence impeded Naruto from passing the academy final exams multiple times and from performing certain techniques efficiently or even at all. How about the hatred and animosity that characterised his childhood because of the fox? And the number of years it took to gain the fox's trust. And the fact that housing the fox was what attracted Akatsuki. Kurama's presence did not come without its disadvantages and Naruto certainly paid his dues for his power.

Other characters merely stole DNA samples or used their brothers eyes. If anything is unfair, its that.

Never thought of it that way, but it is true. Naruto's fox chakra came with drawbacks, and for a good chunk of the entire series, Kurama hated Naruto and threatened to overtake him. And the chakra cloak also harmed him. Now, he had o gain Kurama's respect in order to achieve the full potential with said power. Like even getting to use it and Sage mode simultaneously.

But I find that argument comes up when people just hate whatever character they use it against.

I hear, on another forum, constantly, that KinGin are nothing without their Sage weapons.
For one, we don't know that. And the weapons are their's, stated by Kinkaku and Samui. Why shouldn't they use them. If that's the case, take the swords away from the Seven Swordsman of the Myst. lol

Then you also have ninja who have animals-personal or summoning, to assist with their battles. Jiraiya called in help when facing Pain. Alot of characters are going to have something. Some are born with certain abilities. Some acquire them later. Either way, it becomes apart of their power /arsenal.

 

[UltraPain]

Then what about this

The feat goes for Sasuke not susano, because he was the one who made it to strore the chakra. Susano cannot do anything on his own unlike Kurama.

Doesn't matter because Susano'o is still one of the major pieces that allows the process to occur and without it it wouldn't happen.

Also who cares if Susano'o can't do anything on its own? I still delivers the same results as Kurama.

 

[UltraPain]

I don't know where he got that idea from. Susano'o is a manifestation of Sasuke's Chakra, it does not give him more Chakra.

As for Sasuke awakening his powers because they were handed down to him, no he did not. He had to suffer through pain, sorrow, and loss in order to awaken the Sharingan, was forced to listen to how his entire life was a lie fabricated by his own brother and how his own village that raised him made him suffer, and to have to even get involved in an almost seemingly life-threatening situation to earn Itachi's eyes.

Yeah, he deserved Itachi's eyes unlike Madara where Izuna literally gave it to him due to being on his deathbed.

I just explained this for a second time earlier. What's wrong with you people not reading before posting? Sasuke's Susano'o does not give him more chakra (naturally), but can store more chakra for him after he absorbs it from others (like the bijuu). It's an ability that gives him an advantage and balances his Susano'o out compared to Kurama.

 

[TNC Xlll]

Doesn't matter because Susano'o is still one of the major pieces that allows the process to occur and without it it wouldn't happen.

Also who cares if Susano'o can't do anything on its own? I still delivers the same results as Kurama.

Nope, Susano is not the one that delivers the result. It's Sasuke's skill with susanoo(EMS) and his rinnegan who made the result.

 

[UltraPain]

Nope, Susano is not the one that delivers the result. It's Sasuke's skill with susanoo(EMS) and his rinnegan who made the result.

Of course the rinnegan and EMS is part of it (like I said) but how is Susano'o not a piece? The Susano'o was clearly shown holding the bijuu chakra in VOTE2.

Lol you're just gonna keep trying to fight me over this forever aren't you? I keep giving you evidence but you don't want to admit that Susano'o and Kurama are balanced because it'll take your "unfair" handicap claim away from Sasuke.

 

[TNC Xlll]

Of course the rinnegan and EMS is part of it (like I said) but how is Susano'o not a piece? The Susano'o was clearly shown holding the bijuu chakra in VOTE2.

Lol you're just gonna keep trying to fight me over this forever aren't you?

If you're talking about what he did at Vote 2 of course he was gonna use susanoo
it's not like he's gonna fight kurama avatar without it, and Susano was just a receptacle to hold that chakra
But the result itself was thanks to sauke's skill.
without Sasuke's chakra, no susanoo unlike a certain Kurama who can draw natural energy, refill his chakra when he's empty...

 

[UltraPain]

If you're talking about what he did at Vote 2 of course he was gonna use susanoo
it's not like he's gonna fight kurama avatar without it, and Susano was just a receptacle to hold that chakra
But the result itself was thanks to sauke's skill.
without Sasuke's chakra, no susanoo unlike a certain Kurama who can draw natural energy, refill his chakra when he's empty...

Omg dude for the last time I know Sasuke manifests Susano'o by himself. You're seriously missing the point again and again. I don't care if he can make a Susano'o by himself, yipee we obviously know that. What matters is that the Susano'o helps store massive amounts of chakra after Sasuke absorbs it.

You did say that Susano'o is a recpticle (a.k.a. a container) to hold the chakra. When it does that it gives Sasuke a higher contained amount of chakra (9 bijuus worth), which outclasses the capacity that Kurama can hold at one time.

Kurama can generate chakra though, which is why I think this evens out.

You're killing me here man. I don't care if you disagree but stop posting replies that have nothing to do with what I'm getting at.

 

[the entire forum]

lmao

thread...- narutofanoby logic

 

[TNC Xlll]

Omg dude for the last time I know Sasuke manifests Susano'o by himself. You're seriously missing the point again and again. I don't care if he can make a Susano'o by himself, yipee we obviously know that. What matters is that the Susano'o helps store massive amounts of chakra after Sasuke absorbs it.

You did say that Susano'o is a recpticle (a.k.a. a container) to hold the chakra. When it does that it gives Sasuke a higher contained amount of chakra (9 bijuus worth), which outclasses the capacity that Kurama can hold at one time.

Kurama can generate chakra though, which is why I think this evens out.

You're killing me here man. I don't care if you disagree but stop posting replies that have nothing to do with what I'm getting at.

the credit is for Sasuke not the susano, he's the one who maintain that massive amount of chakra in susano and keep stabilising it
You're the one who talk as if susano was a separate entity that helps Sasuke

So I always see threads on here stating that Naruto is nothing without Kurama, but honestly would Sasuke be anything without Susano'o?

Think about it. Susano'o is a gigantic spiritual warrior with powers comparable to the bijuus and all that Sasuke had to do was be born an Uchiha, have an eye transplant and then get angry. He didn't even have to train or work to perfect the ability like Naruto did.

Susano'o is also to thank for saving Sasuke's ass on multiple occasions, like when he fought the Kages, Danzo, Obito, Madara, Naruto, Kaguya, and others.

Susano is a dojutsu ability with great power just like Amaterasu, nothing more nothing less.

 

[UltraPain]

the credit is for Sasuke not the susano, he's the one who maintain that massive amount of chakra in susano and keep stabilising it
You're the one who talk as if susano was a separate entity that helps Sasuke


Susano is a dojutsu ability with great power just like Amaterasu, nothing more nothing less.

I never once said Susano'o is its own entity. Even if it is just a tech it doesn't change the fact that it is a massive avatar with qualities that balance it with Kurama.

Sasuke was born with Uchiha specific techs that he didn't have to work for, and got the convenience of Susano'o thanks to that. Look at Obito for example, he never once used PS before but out of nowhere he was able to use it immediately through Kakashi simply thanks to his blood. There's no expertise or hard work needed, so giving Sasuke credit as if he earned it and is handling it like it's an impressive feat is BS.

The manifesting and qualities of Susano'o still makes things just as convenient for Sasuke as they are for Naruto, making the "Naruto without Kurama is useless" argument just as applicable to Sasuke and his Susano'o.

 

[TNC Xlll]

I never once said Susano'o is its own entity. Even if it is just a tech it doesn't change the fact that it is in balance with Kurama for the reasons I just stated. It still makes things just as convenient for Sasuke as they are for Naruto, making the "Naruto without Kurama is useless" just as applicable to Sasuke.

Also don't forget that Susano'o has been shown fighting with and against Kurama time and time again, showing that they are equal forms of strength. Even Madara said a Susano'o is just as strong as a bijuu.

I understand that you want to show how great the susano is
but the way you interpret it it sounds like a spirit warrior that follow Sasuke's orders, saved him when he is in danger or something...
Susano has many stages, only the final stage(PS) can be on par with a bijuu
Just like Sasuke spamed Amaterasu/Enton, he spam Susano. not that different, it's just another dojutsu power he spam.

 

[UltraPain]

I understand that you want to show how great the susano is
but the way you interpret it it sounds like a spirit warrior that follow Sasuke's orders, saved him when he is in danger or something...
Susano has many stages, only the final stage(PS) can be on par with a bijuu
Just like Sasuke spamed Amaterasu/Enton, he spam Susano. not that different, it's just another dojutsu power he spam.

I was still finishing my post by the time you started your reply. Read it again to see the finished version and you'll see what I'm getting at.

 

[TNC Xlll]

I was still finishing my post by the time you started your reply. Read it again to see the finished version and you'll see what I'm getting at.

Ok, let see

I never once said Susano'o is its own entity. Even if it is just a tech it doesn't change the fact that it is a massive avatar with qualities that balance it with Kurama.

As I stated, only the final form of susanoo(PS) can be on par with Kurama.

Sasuke was born with Uchiha specific techs that he didn't have to work for, and got the convenience of Susano'o thanks to that. Look at Obito for example, he never once used PS before but out of nowhere he was able to use it immediately through Kakashi simply thanks to his blood. There's no expertise or hard work needed, so giving Sasuke credit as if he earned it and is handling it like it's an impressive feat is BS.

what? It is because he is an uchiha that he's gonna have dojutsu power what do you expect.
Did Obito work for Kamui, did Itachi work for Susano, and Madara did he work for PS?
what about Nagato, did work for ST, to summon the gedo and use his power when he was about to die?
They just get the power and have to get use to it. Did they have to earn it? Is this an obligation to work hard to get that power?
Now, you see the difference about the dojutsu power. As for Sasuke, he already perform susano, he needed more chakra to get the PS and he got it from the sage.

The manifesting and qualities of Susano'o still makes things just as convenient for Sasuke as they are for Naruto, making the "Naruto without Kurama is useless" argument just as applicable to Sasuke his Susano'o.

Susanoo is not the only ability that is conviennient for Sasuke, but it is his strongest dojutsu power he got, he have to use it against stronger opponent. And just like I said in my previous post, it is just a tech that he spamed and Ameno is the new ability that Sasuke spam now
and as for Naruto comment, I never said that about him and I don't care if he's useless w/o kurama or not

 

[UltraPain]

Ok, let see


As I stated, only the final form of susanoo(PS) can be on par with Kurama.


what? It is because he is an uchiha that he's gonna have dojutsu power what do you expect.
Did Obito work for Kamui, did Itachi work for Susano, and Madara did he work for PS?
what about Nagato, did work for ST, to summon the gedo and use his power when he was about to die?
They just get the power and have to get use to it. Did they have to earn it? Is this an obligation to work hard to get that power?
Now, you see the difference about the dojutsu power. As for Sasuke, he already perform susano, he needed more chakra to get the PS and he got it from the sage.


Susanoo is not the only ability that is conviennient for Sasuke, but it is his strongest dojutsu power he got, he have to use it against stronger opponent. And just like I said in my previous post, it is just a tech that he spamed and Ameno is the new ability that Sasuke spam now
and as for Naruto comment, I never said that about him and I don't care if he's useless w/o kurama or not

Honestly I don't understand why you keep pointing this stuff out. Your replies don't even tie in with the content and main point of the thread. What are you trying to prove exactly? I keep trying to explain how my examples work within the thread's content (read the title, man) but you keep trying to give me a lesson on Sasuke's dojutsu abilities and why he has a right to use them in fights. I don't think you're understanding this thread's main purpose.

 

[TNC Xlll]

Honestly I don't understand why you keep pointing this stuff out. It doesn't even have to do with the content of the thread. What are you trying to prove exactly? I keep trying to explain how my examples work within the content but you keep trying to give me a lesson on Sasuke's dojutsu abilities.

Nope I just trying to show that Ms, EMS or rinnegan's user doesn't work hard to get their power. It's not just Sasuke. So there's no point saying that he have to work for it. He just get Susano and he used it, spamed it just like Obito spam Kamui.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

So I always see threads on here stating that Naruto is nothing without Kurama, but honestly would Sasuke be anything without Susano'o?

Think about it. Susano'o is a gigantic spiritual warrior with powers comparable to the bijuus and all that Sasuke had to do was be born an Uchiha, have an eye transplant and then get angry. He didn't even have to train or work to perfect the ability like Naruto did.

Susano'o is also to thank for saving Sasuke's ass on multiple occasions, like when he fought the Kages, Danzo, Obito, Madara, Naruto, Kaguya, and others.

So what's the big deal then? Wouldn't this make Sasuke and Naruto guilty for the same thing?

@bold That is the biggest problem with YOUR argument. The fact that you correspond Kurama to Susanoo just because of similarity in power just shows how stupid you are. You face problems with Naruto/Kurama argument because you're at fault by not understanding such a simple logical difference that Kurama = Naruto's partner, and Susanoo = Sasuke's ability.

It doesn't matter if Kurama and Susanoo are similar in power and characteristics, the fact remains that Susanoo is Sasuke's OWN ability, you can't compare it to Naruto's Kurama ENDOWED powers. Nobody is talking about similarity in powers, they're talking about who that power belongs to. Susanoo belongs to Sasuke, Kurama belongs to Kurama.

And don't cry about Sasuke being born an Uchiha. Of course he's born an Uchiha, and that's because Sasuke was supposed to have those abilities by default based on his bloodline which Naruto gained after cooperation with Kurama. Sasuke should already have bloodline powers similar to the powers which Naruto gained after cooperation with Kurama, and that's exactly why Sasuke was born an Uchiha. It's because Uchiha's innate powers (Susanoo) are comparable to other shinobis bijuu endowed powers.

And no, nothing would make Naruto and Sasuke guilty of the same thing...

Solo thread completely 100 percent agreed I always say this

It's hilarious how dumb Naruto fans are that they actually agree with the OP ^^^.

Why are you comparing a technique to a giant monster that give out chakra and advice?

Exactly this.

Also known as luck, which isn't always earned.

It isn't luck, it's all guaranteed because he is Indra's reincarnation.

You're wrong.

Correct comparison is Sasuke taking Itachi's eyes. He would be shit without them and he had to grave rob his brother to match Naruto.

:bdpf:

That's also not a correct comparison. The issue is in the ownership of powers. Itachi's eyes belong to Sasuke, Kurama's powers belong to Kurama, not Naruto.