The Masked Man (With Amenotejikara instead of Kamui) vs Hokage Minato

KingHashirama

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Doesn't need the reserves when he can end it with one shot...

Sasuke brings Madara to him here.( ). Also this here.( ). Teleported a blade right through the man... Same thing happens to Minato but it's a head shot...​

Sasuke's speed without the s/t jutsu is vastly superior to Obito.. Its not the eye technique by itself thats deadly. Its Sasuke's speed combined with the eye technique thats deadly.

Obito is not Sasuke. In one of the scans Sasuke has had a sword, he has Mastered the Katana.. when Obito does, and use it fully in a battle, let me know. Using Sasuke's feat to claim Obito can pull them off, despite being 98% inferior to Sasuke in base forms.. is just a false accusation, without any reasonable proof.
 

TRE MERCER

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Conversely, what's stopping Minato from throwing a bunch of kunai around Obito, and insta-hitting him in a similar fasion? It's all about who strikes first, but Minato can use FTG repeatedly, and could even just stay out of the range of Sasuke's ST. Heaven's hand is limited by range. Minato is not. He could easily stay out of 10m and throw kunai, to teleport back and forth. A blitz won't be possible.

Also, Sasuke swapped places with his sword. He can't just place whatever he wants at any location. He needs something to swap with.
How would Minato know the range? If it's just like before??? Minato can throw as many as he wants it still won't stop him from being spawned killed... Also Minato throwing Kunai only makes this more of a stomp the moment Minato throws a Kunai and attack Obito he'll run into his own ftg and K,H,S... This tech doesn't always need swaping please tell me what was between Naruto and Sasuke here that he swapped with.( )?​
 

TRE MERCER

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Sasuke's speed without the s/t jutsu is vastly superior to Obito.. Its not the eye technique by itself thats deadly. Its Sasuke's speed combined with the eye technique thats deadly.

Obito is not Sasuke. In one of the scans Sasuke has had a sword, he has Mastered the Katana.. when Obito does, and use it fully in a battle, let me know. Using Sasuke's feat to claim Obito can pull them off, despite being 98% inferior to Sasuke in base forms.. is just a false accusation, without any reasonable proof.
90% of this post is irrelevant and flawed and the other 10% is easily countered...

Obito won't need speed all he'll need to do is extend his arm with a Kunai in it... Actually the eye tech is deadly seeing as you can bring your opponent to you so even if your not fast you can still one shot speed-sters... What does Katana skills has to do with teleporting somebody on your kunai? Doesn't matter if he's inferior to Sasuke in base the tech won't which will allow Obito to win...​
 

KingHashirama

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90% of this post is irrelevant and flawed and the other 10% is easily countered...

Obito won't need speed all he'll need to do is extend his arm with a Kunai in it... Actually the eye tech is deadly seeing as you can bring your opponent to you so even if your not fast you can still one shot speed-sters... What does Katana skills has to do with teleporting somebody on your kunai? Doesn't matter if he's inferior to Sasuke in base the tech won't which will allow Obito to win...​
glad you think you can counter something.. but also.. don't care for your stats mate.

If it ain't faster than Ay's striking speed, or fast as Sasuke's striking speed.. your boy Obito is not going to get Minato. You can bring your opponent close.. sure but it does take alot of chakra.. WHICH OBITO DOES NOT HAVE.. And even if he teleports Minato.. Minato can ftg the f*ck out of there.. rofl.

You can teleport anyone close to you.. but if you ain't fast enough to hit them, before they poof again in an instant.. then sorry your technique is worthless.
 

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Shanks

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This is a big joke Amenjikotori is used for Sort to mid range . Minato 's ftg is still faster and can used in all ranges ..


Minato's ftg is fastest in Naruto's universe excluding Kaguya's Power of teleporting .
 

Sennin of Logic

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How would Minato know the range? If it's just like before??? Minato can throw as many as he wants it still won't stop him from being spawned killed... Also Minato throwing Kunai only makes this more of a stomp the moment Minato throws a Kunai and attack Obito he'll run into his own ftg and K,H,S... This tech doesn't always need swaping please tell me what was between Naruto and Sasuke here that he swapped with.( )?​


"Intel: None, but rudimentary knowledge of each other's jutsus." He'll probably know that there's a range limit, so will go mid-long range.

No, multiple kunai is the death of Heaven's Hand. Heaven's hand works by swapping with objects, but has only shown 1 at a time. Multiple kunai means that Minato has multiple teleportation points, so will go to different angles. Heaven's Hand will be quickly exhausted if, by some miracle, Minato doesn't even FTG LV2 Obito's but. And yes, it always does need swapping. Please throw out your fanfiction. It was never stated it doesn't need swapping. Kishimoto simply didn't show what was used for the swapping.
 

King Of Pop

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=Sennin of Logic;17994740]Um, no. It's the only logical conclusion to come to. It doesn't need seals, but it always needs objects, and it's short-mid range, and has a cool down time after successive use. The only benefit is that it's less predictable, but the negatives outweigh the positives.
no the conclusion is not logical at all. false, manga has shown that he doesnt always need objects as seen when he shifted madara and kaguya to him or when he shifted himself to kaguya and naruto. . times were he swapped with something its always been explicitly shown or emphasized like when he swapped with his sword, or sakuras jacket or when he swapped with narutos clone to get to kaguya, hes blized from ranges which most battles start with so its not much of a downside, and in exchange for a cooldown it can do so much that ftg cant.

All your points are illegitimate since Sasuke has rikkudo chakra that puts his physical attributes on par with Madara whereas Minato only has sage mode, which puts his physical attributes as vastly inferior. Minato would have similar results as Sasuke if he had Rikkudo chakra, but wouldn't be as limited.
doesnt change the fact that throwing kunais near your opponent in an attempt to bliz him can be easily countered if said opponent sees the kunais and has the necessary reflexes and speed to counter, thats one flaw of ftg, as Ay employed similar tactics unlike ame which blizes once while the opponent is in range without any need of a medium. heck the opponent can be telepported to the users attack if the user wishes which is something that requires two ftg users in case of ftg. both jutsus have their downsides and upsides but ame combat terms ame is deadlier in the hands of the right user.

Conversely, what's stopping Minato from throwing a bunch of kunai around Obito, and insta-hitting him in a similar fasion? It's all about who strikes first, but Minato can use FTG repeatedly, and could even just stay out of the range of Sasuke's ST. Heaven's hand is limited by range. Minato is not. He could easily stay out of 10m and throw kunai, to teleport back and forth. A blitz won't be possible.

Also, Sasuke swapped places with his sword. He can't just place whatever he wants at any location. He needs something to swap with.
minato IS in range here, read the op. it just like how their battle was last time except here obito doesnt need to approach close range as he has a jutsu to instabliz provided hes striking speed is fast enough, not debating this matchup though.

=Sennin of Logic;17999496]"Intel: None, but rudimentary knowledge of each other's jutsus." He'll probably know that there's a range limit, so will go mid-long range.

No, multiple kunai is the death of Heaven's Hand. Heaven's hand works by swapping with objects, but has only shown 1 at a time. Multiple kunai means that Minato has multiple teleportation points, so will go to different angles. Heaven's Hand will be quickly exhausted if, by some miracle, Minato doesn't even FTG LV2 Obito's but. And yes, it always does need swapping. Please throw out your fanfiction. It was never stated it doesn't need swapping. Kishimoto simply didn't show what was used for the swapping.
bold statements are false except you want to ignore the manga. he just showed you a scan were sasuke didnt use any object but utilized ame yet you ignore and go on about kishimoto not showing it. you should prove that he needs objects, if you are going by databook, know that it widely contradicts what manga has shown us(not the first time), no explanation on how sasuke teleported madara or kaguya, it only explained one part which is hes swapping as when he swapped with sakuras jacket.
 

TRE MERCER

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"Intel: None, but rudimentary knowledge of each other's jutsus." He'll probably know that there's a range limit, so will go mid-long range.

No, multiple kunai is the death of Heaven's Hand. Heaven's hand works by swapping with objects, but has only shown 1 at a time. Multiple kunai means that Minato has multiple teleportation points, so will go to different angles. Heaven's Hand will be quickly exhausted if, by some miracle, Minato doesn't even FTG LV2 Obito's but. And yes, it always does need swapping. Please throw out your fanfiction. It was never stated it doesn't need swapping. Kishimoto simply didn't show what was used for the swapping.
Tssk Tssk...

Well Obito simply stabs a rock and swap the rock places with Minato gg... You go on and on about it absolutely needs something to swap with yet you couldn't find a think he swapped with multiple times.( )-( ).​
 

ARGUS

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This is a big joke Amenjikotori is used for Sort to mid range . Minato 's ftg is still faster and can used in all ranges ..

Minato's ftg is fastest in Naruto's universe excluding Kaguya's Power of teleporting .
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This is a big joke Amenjikotori is used for Sort to mid range . Minato 's ftg is still faster and can used in all ranges ..

Minato's ftg is fastest in Naruto's universe excluding Kaguya's Power of teleporting .

Wait ... what? One S/T instant teleportation is faster than the other S/T instant teleportation? Does that even make any sense to you?
 

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Shettt this thread got heated. I missed it. :'(
 

ARGUS

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minato reacting to amenotejikara is a joke, when even JJ madraa was blitzed by it,
the moment he is within the attacks range, he gets instantly stabbed and killed, there is nothing more to add
 

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minato reacting to amenotejikara is a joke, when even JJ madraa was blitzed by it,
the moment he is within the attacks range, he gets instantly stabbed and killed, there is nothing more to add

Lol, somebody clearly doesn't know how instant teleportation S/T Ninjutsu works. There is no difference in speed as they are all instant. The only difference is the one using it. Sasuke>>>>>>Minato in movement speed, that's why Sasuke can blitz Madara with his instant teleportation, while Minato can't.

So no, "Amenotejikara" didn't blitz Madara. Sasuke using Amenotejikara blitzed Madara. Big difference.


OT: Minato's speed and reactions>Obito's speed and reactions. Add instant teleportation to both and it's clear who wins.
 

ARGUS

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Lol, somebody clearly doesn't know how instant teleportation S/T Ninjutsu works. There is no difference in speed as they are all instant. The only difference is the one using it. Sasuke>>>>>>Minato in movement speed, that's why Sasuke can blitz Madara with his instant teleportation, while Minato can't.

So no, "Amenotejikara" didn't blitz Madara. Sasuke using Amenotejikara blitzed Madara. Big difference.


OT: Minato's speed and reactions>Obito's speed and reactions. Add instant teleportation to both and it's clear who wins.

Sigh, did you even read my post?
i am well aware that the users reflexes and reactions are what allow them to cast the jutsu on time,
so if minato casts amenotejikara on time, then he blitzes madara just how it happened in canon
especially when the speed of the jutsu would still be the same, unless youre telling me that the speed of amenotejikara would be changed?
movement speed has got nothing to do with the instant speed of S/T ninjutsu so you're wrong on that,
movement speed only has the difference on the users reactions and reflexes,

furthermore, it doesnt matter if minatos reactions are above obitos. he still needs to actually place a mark on him to blitz him, and unlike their previous encounter, Obito doesnt need to actually physically touch him in-order to warp,

and the moment minato is within the range of Ameno, obito stabs him with a mokuton spike immediately,
minato is not evading it or reacting to it. and obito can certainly keep track of his shunshin which minato would need to utilise in-order to place a mark on him, meaning that minato gets bltized before obito does
 

KidGamer65

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Sigh, did you even read my post?
i am well aware that the users reflexes and reactions are what allow them to cast the jutsu on time,

The user's reflexes let them cast the jutsu AND STRIKE BEFORE THE TARGET CAN REACT.

I read your post, and it makes no sense.

minato reacting to amenotejikara is a joke, when even JJ madraa was blitzed by it,



so if minato casts amenotejikara on time, then he blitzes madara just how it happened in canon
Now, did you read my post? Because you are still spouting the same stuff I just countered. Why in the world would Minato blitz Madara w/ an instantaneous teleportation jutsu, when he already failed to blitz him with Hiraishin, which is an instantaneous teleportation jutsu? The speed of both jutsu is not difference. Sasuke's movement speed>>Madara's. That's why he can blitz Madara with instantaneous teleportation, while Minato can't.

especially when the speed of the jutsu would still be the same, unless youre telling me that the speed of amenotejikara would be changed?

movement speed has got nothing to do with the instant speed of S/T ninjutsu so you're wrong on that,
So, does magic let Sasuke or Minato strike their foes after they've teleported? Obviously not. Teleport-->Strike. That's how it goes. The faster you strike, the less time they have to react.


movement speed only has the difference on the users reactions and reflexes,
Lol, other way around. Reflexes and reaction speed is what determines movement speed.


furthermore, it doesnt matter if minatos reactions are above obitos. he still needs to actually place a mark on him to blitz him, and unlike their previous encounter, Obito doesnt need to actually physically touch him in-order to warp,

What the hell?

@bold: Obviously it does. If Obito warps Minato to him and Obito isn't fast enough to hit him due to inferior speed all around, Minato just teleports away, and then when he attacks Obito with Hiraishin, the latter falls due to inferior speed and reactions, or Minato forces him to dance around until it's time for the jutsu to cooldown, then it's GG no re.

Kaguya>>Rinnegan Sasuke in speed and reactions, thus she reacted to Sasuke both times he used Amenotejikara, and she even outright evaded it the first time around. Thus, if you are fast enough, you can outright evade it on foot, or if your reactions and speed are superior, you can react BEFORE they hit you. Minato>>Obito in speed and reactions.

So tell me, how is Obito hitting Minato before the latter reacts and warps away again?

Oh wait, he isn't.

@underlined: Like he did in canon?

and the moment minato is within the range of Ameno, obito stabs him with a mokuton spike immediately,
Unless you can show me where Obito has superior movement speed and reactions. If he teleports Minato, Minato just teleports away using Hiraishin.


minato is not evading it or reacting to it.
Minato>Obito in speed. Give them both instantaneous teleportation and that fact remains the same. Not hard to understand. Literally simple math.

and obito can certainly keep track of his shunshin which minato would need to utilise in-order to place a mark on him, meaning that minato gets bltized before obito does

Obito already fell to Hiraishin in canon, before the mark was placed. Hiraishin+Rasengan is how he placed the mark to begin with, so no, he doesn't need to mark Obito to win. Obito can't touch him due to inferior speed and reactions, and Amenotejikara needs a cooldown. Either Obito gets blitzed by Minato, or he evades Minato until his cooldown comes, and then he dies. Like I said, you clearly don't know how instantaneous teleportation works.

Either way, Minato wins this no more than mid difficulty.
 

ARGUS

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The user's reflexes let them cast the jutsu AND STRIKE BEFORE THE TARGET CAN REACT.

I read your post, and it makes no sense.
It certainly makes more sense than what ur saying, when you think that teleporting and attacking is the same as instantly attacking


Now, did you read my post? Because you are still spouting the same stuff I just countered. Why in the world would Minato blitz Madara w/ an instantaneous teleportation jutsu, when he already failed to blitz him with Hiraishin, which is an instantaneous teleportation jutsu? The speed of both jutsu is not difference. Sasuke's movement speed>>Madara's. That's why he can blitz Madara with instantaneous teleportation, while Minato can't.
Are we reading the same manga here?
Minato teleported, but then only attacked madara with his striking speed,
Madara reacted to his striking speed, he didnt react to FTG itself, so ur wrong on that, '
had madara been marked, then the speed of minatos attack would be much faster

and in what world did sasuke use his movement speed to blitz madara?
he used amenotejikara which is an S/T technique,
if minato uses amenotejikara on time then madara gets blitzed, its as simple as that,

Sasuke teleporting and attacking kaguya is alot slower than sasuke instantly attacking madara,
in the latter case, reflexes dont matter, since sasuke is instantly attacking madara with his jutsu,
So, does magic let Sasuke or Minato strike their foes after they've teleported? Obviously not. Teleport-->Strike. That's how it goes. The faster you strike, the less time they have to react.
having an instant teleporting strike is faster than teleporting and striking, i dont see what ur not grasping here,
obito having amenotejikara allows him to strike instantly the moment minato is in the jutsus range,
he doesnt need to teleport and strike when he can coordinate his attacks and land them instantly on him

Lol, other way around. Reflexes and reaction speed is what determines movement speed.
incorrect, one could have slower movement speed (shunshin), but faster reflexes and reaction speed,
as shown how RT madara reacted to Tobirama, despite being much slower,
however they are all directly proportional so there isnt much to be discussed

What the hell?

@bold: Obviously it does. If Obito warps Minato to him and Obito isn't fast enough to hit him due to inferior speed all around, Minato just teleports away, and then when he attacks Obito with Hiraishin, the latter falls due to inferior speed and reactions, or Minato forces him to dance around until it's time for the jutsu to cooldown, then it's GG no re.
Obito can directly teleport a mokuton spike towards minato, the latter doesnt have the reactions to react to it and thats that,
furthermore, Minato actually has to use his shunshin to close the distance and actually have to rely on his reflexes to reactions to attack obito, meaning that he can react to him coming up close and shove a mokuton spike on him instantly
Kaguya>>Rinnegan Sasuke in speed and reactions, thus she reacted to Sasuke both times he used Amenotejikara, and she even outright evaded it the first time around. Thus, if you are fast enough, you can outright evade it on foot, or if your reactions and speed are superior, you can react BEFORE they hit you. Minato>>Obito in speed and reactions.
Kaguya evaded sasukes attack, after he used amenotejikara
its different from sasuke instantly landing an attack from amenotejikara,
reactions dont mean much when obito can instantly land an attack on minato to blitz him,
not to mention that minato doesnt have the reflexes to react to ameno, instantly attacking him, so there goes that,
So tell me, how is Obito hitting Minato before the latter reacts and warps away again?
he does similar to what sasuke did against madara,
by coordinating a mokuton spike and instantly land it on minato the moment hes within his range,
minato isnt reacting to that, that simple
Oh wait, he isn't.

@underlined: Like he did in canon?
he blitzed obito once he placed a mark on him,
Unless you can show me where Obito has superior movement speed and reactions. If he teleports Minato, Minato just teleports away using Hiraishin.

Minato>Obito in speed. Give them both instantaneous teleportation and that fact remains the same. Not hard to understand. Literally simple math.

Obito already fell to Hiraishin in canon, before the mark was placed. Hiraishin+Rasengan is how he placed the mark to begin with, so no, he doesn't need to mark Obito to win. Obito can't touch him due to inferior speed and reactions, and Amenotejikara needs a cooldown. Either Obito gets blitzed by Minato, or he evades Minato until his cooldown comes, and then he dies. Like I said, you clearly don't know how instantaneous teleportation works.

Either way, Minato wins this no more than mid difficulty.
He fell to FTG, because he had to solely rely on reactions and reflexes to actually touch and warp minato, however here thats not the case, when he can instantly coordinate a weapon from ameno and land it on minato to blitz him off, just how sasuke did against madara,

movement speed is not doing much when obito can react to minatos shunshin, and when he sees him attacking he instantly stabs minato, its that simple,

its ironic coming from you, when you clearly dont know the difference between teleporting and attacking,
and a teleportation attack
 

BenjerminGaye

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It certainly makes more sense than what ur saying, when you think that teleporting and attacking is the same as instantly attacking



Are we reading the same manga here?
Minato teleported, but then only attacked madara with his striking speed,
Madara reacted to his striking speed, he didnt react to FTG itself, so ur wrong on that, '
had madara been marked, then the speed of minatos attack would be much faster

and in what world did sasuke use his movement speed to blitz madara?
he used amenotejikara which is an S/T technique,
if minato uses amenotejikara on time then madara gets blitzed, its as simple as that,

Sasuke teleporting and attacking kaguya is alot slower than sasuke instantly attacking madara,
in the latter case, reflexes dont matter, since sasuke is instantly attacking madara with his jutsu,

having an instant teleporting strike is faster than teleporting and striking, i dont see what ur not grasping here,
obito having amenotejikara allows him to strike instantly the moment minato is in the jutsus range,
he doesnt need to teleport and strike when he can coordinate his attacks and land them instantly on him


incorrect, one could have slower movement speed (shunshin), but faster reflexes and reaction speed,
as shown how RT madara reacted to Tobirama, despite being much slower,
however they are all directly proportional so there isnt much to be discussed


Obito can directly teleport a mokuton spike towards minato, the latter doesnt have the reactions to react to it and thats that,
furthermore, Minato actually has to use his shunshin to close the distance and actually have to rely on his reflexes to reactions to attack obito, meaning that he can react to him coming up close and shove a mokuton spike on him instantly

Kaguya evaded sasukes attack, after he used amenotejikara
its different from sasuke instantly landing an attack from amenotejikara,
reactions dont mean much when obito can instantly land an attack on minato to blitz him,
not to mention that minato doesnt have the reflexes to react to ameno, instantly attacking him, so there goes that,

he does similar to what sasuke did against madara,
by coordinating a mokuton spike and instantly land it on minato the moment hes within his range,
minato isnt reacting to that, that simple

he blitzed obito once he placed a mark on him,

He fell to FTG, because he had to solely rely on reactions and reflexes to actually touch and warp minato, however here thats not the case, when he can instantly coordinate a weapon from ameno and land it on minato to blitz him off, just how sasuke did against madara,

movement speed is not doing much when obito can react to minatos shunshin, and when he sees him attacking he instantly stabs minato, its that simple,

its ironic coming from you, when you clearly dont know the difference between teleporting and attacking,
and a teleportation attack

There's no such thing as a teleporting strike. It's always been teleport then strike. It's a common mistake make due to how hard it is to grasp "motion" in a manga.
 

ARGUS

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There's no such thing as a teleporting strike. It's always been teleport then strike. It's a common mistake make due to how hard it is to grasp "motion" in a manga.

You can still coordinate an attack with a S/T jutsu such as ameno

Having a directly teleported sword through ameno is much faster than teleporting and then striking
And having this ability is why obito would win this
 
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