Geez, why can't the animators get these things right? XD Anyway, so I guess they changed Sasuke's so that Madara's could be blue. Why couldn't Madara's be dark purple? O_O
Yeah, I got your PM, so I get what you mean. :erm: That's true though, if you did do something between the Uchihas, you don't want to make it too much like Itachi and Sasuke. I'm sure you'll avoid that though. ^^ Their situation is pretty specific and hard to duplicate.
No problem! I suppose that's true haha!
I had to deal with that in the Naruto FC not too long ago. xD But you're welcome! Hey, while we're on the subject of the member's list: do you just send the new names to a mod, and they add them for you? Because I really should make an update to the Naruto FC list. U_U
Yes, you basically send the new member names (I send them numbered) along with a link to the OP of the FC and the mod will add it. I always send mine to Pekoms since he is quick about adding them.
By the way, did you ever get my last PM? My inbox has been acting weird lately so I wanted to check on outgoing messages as well.
Geez, why can't the animators get these things right? XD Anyway, so I guess they changed Sasuke's so that Madara's could be blue. Why couldn't Madara's be dark purple? O_O
Yes, you basically send the new member names (I send them numbered) along with a link to the OP of the FC and the mod will add it. I always send mine to Pekoms since he is quick about adding them.
By the way, did you ever get my last PM? My inbox has been acting weird lately so I wanted to check on outgoing messages as well.
Thanks, Beep! It's really nice to get input on these types of situations. <3
Yes, you basically send the new member names (I send them numbered) along with a link to the OP of the FC and the mod will add it. I always send mine to Pekoms since he is quick about adding them.
By the way, did you ever get my last PM? My inbox has been acting weird lately so I wanted to check on outgoing messages as well.
Hey guys and gals... or now that I think about it, just gals
I have a "versus" question for everyone, if you're into that sort of thing...
How do you think the 6 Paths of Pain would fare against Itachi's genjutsu, both 6v1 and 1v1? A common argument is that the Paths are immune to doujutsu because they are dead bodies. But, KA worked on an Edo Itachi, so why should the Paths be any different?
Another argument is that Rinnegan>MS, because it is the next stage up, so MS genjutsu won't work on Rinnegan. But, Itachi had originally envisioned KA to be used on EMS Sasuke (and EMS is a step up from MS, so wouldn't the Rinnegan>MS argument not work with this logic?)
Feel free to give your thoughts/opinions on these points, and if you have anything to add, please share!
Hey guys and gals... or now that I think about it, just gals
I have a "versus" question for everyone, if you're into that sort of thing...
How do you think the 6 Paths of Pain would fare against Itachi's genjutsu, both 6v1 and 1v1? A common argument is that the Paths are immune to doujutsu because they are dead bodies. But, KA worked on an Edo Itachi, so why should the Paths be any different?
Another argument is that Rinnegan>MS, because it is the next stage up, so MS genjutsu won't work on Rinnegan. But, Itachi had originally envisioned KA to be used on EMS Sasuke (and EMS is a step up from MS, so wouldn't the Rinnegan>MS argument not work with this logic?)
Feel free to give your thoughts/opinions on these points, and if you have anything to add, please share!
No, the paths are not immune to doujutsu due to being dead bodies. Yes, they won't feel pain, so torture would be useless. However, Itachi does have paralysis genjutsu (like the kind he used on Oro when he was 13/14 and had just joined Akatsuki). He could use that to paralyze the corpses and just pull out the rods for the duration of the genjutsu so that Nagato can no longer control them via those chakra receptors.
It would be more difficult to fight 6v1 than 1v1. 1v1 is just Nagato but he's not even completely mobile and even though he has all the power of the individual paths, he can't use all the attacks at once.
6v1, the paths do share vision. If one path looks at Itachi's eyes, the rest will see them as well and be caught in genjutsu. Then, Itachi pulls out the rods.
Rinnegan>MS is the worst claim. Yes, MS genjutsu does work on Rinnegan, at least there's no reason to not believe that it's so and it was slightly implied. Mainly from the example you stated about Shisui's MS taking Sasuke's EMS. Also when Sasuke and Itachi were fighting and zetsu said that 3-tomoe Hebi Sasuke had a chance at genjutsu'ing MS Itachi. Higher doujutsu doesn't mean that it's completely immune to the attacks of its predecessors.
The Rinnegan just mainly has more destructive power. But this isn't a contest to see who can blow up a village, it's a vs fight.
Conclusion: Yes, Itachi's genjutsu would affect Nagato if he's caught and be useful, paths or the main body itself.
^However, the problem here is that if anyone states something like this outside of the thread, 50% of the base doesn't agree. During vs fights, alot of people don't judge on actual abilities but more along the lines of powerlevel. Nagato is much more powerful than Itachi, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee a win. Itachi actually stands a good chance at defeating him. I'd actually give him a 50/50 chance of beating Nagato considering that in-context he has intel, this could go either way imo.
Conclusion: Yes, Itachi's genjutsu would affect Nagato if he's caught and be useful, paths or the main body itself.
^However, the problem here is that if anyone states something like this outside of the thread, 50% of the base doesn't agree. During vs fights, alot of people don't judge on actual abilities but more along the lines of powerlevel. Nagato is much more powerful than Itachi, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee a win. Itachi actually stands a good chance at defeating him. I'd actually give him a 50/50 chance of beating Nagato considering that in-context he has intel, this could go either way imo.
Thanks for sharing your insight I agree with everything you said.
Yeah, that's unfortunately how most VS threads work these days. Most of the "skilled" debaters who don't go by that logic (powerlevel) usually ignore posts by people they haven't deemed "worthy" of partaking in said discussions, so that doesn't help
AND you can add the fact that a large amount of people hate Itachi now due to the ridiculous #ItachiBase wankers/spammers, and look for reasons everywhere to bash him or underrate him. It's not a good time to be debating for Itachi nowadays
I more or less agree with the 50/50 chance on Nagato, taking everything into account. Most people assume Itachi gets stomped, but if Nagato wins, it's with high diff. The main issue in the matchup is Chibaku Tensei. Itachi doesn't have the destructive power to counter it (with the only good argument I've ever seen to the contrary being that he can use multiple Yasaka Magatamas, but it was never proven), whereas Nagato more or less has a definite counter for all of Itachi's techs. I mean there's always scenarios where Itachi can take him out before he uses CT, but there are also scenarios like that for Nagato, so they sort of cancel each other out. There's also the issue of Itachi being limited by his sickness, whereas Nagato (or the Paths) is a powerhouse in terms of stamina.
I'm tempted to go do some more research and make an Itachi>Nagato thread, but I'm 100% certain it's gonna turn into a bashfest and get closed, so I don't think it's worth the trouble :|
Thanks for sharing your insight I agree with everything you said.
Yeah, that's unfortunately how most VS threads work these days. Most of the "skilled" debaters who don't go by that logic (powerlevel) usually ignore posts by people they haven't deemed "worthy" of partaking in said discussions, so that doesn't help
AND you can add the fact that a large amount of people hate Itachi now due to the ridiculous #ItachiBase wankers/spammers, and look for reasons everywhere to bash him or underrate him. It's not a good time to be debating for Itachi nowadays
I more or less agree with the 50/50 chance on Nagato, taking everything into account. Most people assume Itachi gets stomped, but if Nagato wins, it's with high diff. The main issue in the matchup is Chibaku Tensei. Itachi doesn't have the destructive power to counter it (with the only good argument I've ever seen to the contrary being that he can use multiple Yasaka Magatamas, but it was never proven), whereas Nagato more or less has a definite counter for all of Itachi's techs. I mean there's always scenarios where Itachi can take him out before he uses CT, but there are also scenarios like that for Nagato, so they sort of cancel each other out. There's also the issue of Itachi being limited by his sickness, whereas Nagato (or the Paths) is a powerhouse in terms of stamina.
I'm tempted to go do some more research and make an Itachi>Nagato thread, but I'm 100% certain it's gonna turn into a bashfest and get closed, so I don't think it's worth the trouble :|
We saw Sasuke cut down larger Chibaku Tenseis with his sword. I don't see why Itachi can't use Totsuka to stab CT, however ridiculous "Totsuka GG" may sound here.
I guess it could be like this (imo- and assuming they know nothing about each other):
-Edo Nagato vs Edo Itachi= Itachi wins med to high diff
-Alive Nagato vs Alive Itachi= Nagato wins med diff (This depends on location alot too, though. Itachi can use his techs anywhere, because they're not very destructive. Nagato can't do that, when he used the paths to fight Jiraiya, he had to leave out any flashy or wide-range jutsu so that the village they were fighting in wouldn't be damaged. If they're in an area that Nagato somewhat cares for, then Itachi's chance goes up. If not, then Nagato wins.)
If it's in context and they're alive, then Itachi wouldn't randomly fight Nagato. He'd learn a few things and maybe win high-diff.
I think that Kishimoto wanted to portray Itachi and Nagato as somewhat of equals. Nagato's the powerhouse of decent intelligence, whilst Itachi's the genius with a decent amount of power. They balance out. But if they're alive, considering that Itachi was in a worse state than Nagato was with being terminally ill, (Nagato himself was crippled and drained of chakra to the point he couldn't move much, but his fighting style doesn't revolve around moving around much and he has corpses to attack anyway) and that susano'o usage takes alot of stamina, I doubt he wins.
I don't think you should make a "VS" thread. It will be bashed. Besides, most people DO go with who's more powerful right off the bat. Like this:
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People like to overhype overpowered characters. Saying Itachi gets stomped is bs. Itachi's not just going to walk out there blindly and die. He'll utilize clones, try to fool him, stategy, anything he can.
Threads like Nagato vs Itachi don't really get anywhere. Threads like these prove that:
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^I really like this response from the above thread though:
Depends on their conditions. When they were alive, Itachi had a terminal illness, was blind, etc and Nagato was crippled, he would get tired from using a giant shinra tensei attack, and the rinnegan drained him.
Obviously, in terms of raw power Nagato beats Itachi by miles. But the thing that allows Itachi to compete against top tier shinobi is his intelligence, knowledge of jutsu, and the ability to predict his opponent's attacks.
Edo Tensei? Itachi wins. Why? Because you cannot kill and Edo, the only way to beat them is to seal them or undo the justu. Nagato has never shown any aptitude for sealing anyone, yeah he can rip out your soul, but that doesn't work on Edos. Itachi knows the hand seals for the justu and he also has the sword of Totsuka to seal him away if he goes that route.
Alive and in the condition shown in manga? That would be a terrible matchup for Itachi. He had terrible stamina and a terminal illness. And Nagato as well. Nagato is a cripple, but he can use his summons to move around. Itachi would probably get farther than Jiraiya did, due to being considerably stronger than him,but after defeating the 6 paths of Pain (if he could fight that long), I don't know if he would have enough energy to take down Nagato on top of all of that. But then again, Nagato got so worn out after destroying the village. His stamina wasn't the best either. It's not like this fight would go by quickly but I would lean more towards Nagato at the moment. I think it's worse to have sucky stamina and a terminal illness, blind, etc. than to be crippled and still make up for that by using summons' to move around.
Completely healthy and alive? Well the closest we have to that was when they were fighting as Edos. Itachi did figure out the Chibaku Tensei's weakness in seconds and sealed away Nagato. Yes, Bee and Naruto did help by throwing in their attacks which compensated for 2/3 of the power needed to destroy it, but then again they were quite far away at the moment they released the attack. Itachi took 3 seconds max to create the Yasaka Magatama beads so if he really wanted to, he could have just spammed that 2 more times and taken it out himself. But obviously Naruto had to be included, because well he's the main character and has to do something and Bee was there as well. Itachi told them what to do, but it's not like he looked like he had a sense of urgency about it. He just told them and then let Naruto take his time as he freaked out and was like "Oh okay" and attacked. Not trying to be a tard, honestly not, but Naruto and Bee were not needed there, they were there only for plot. Itachi wins w/ high difficulty.
Also keep in mind that there is a near 0% chance of Itachi dying in any fight. Not because he's overpowered. Because he's smart enough to know when to leave. He wouldn't allow for someone to kill him, he would know as the battle goes on whether he or his opponent has the upper hand. That and he uses clones to attack most of the time and has a wide variety of techniques in his arsenal.
This is off-topic but you know how Sasuke tried to jump Madara and got stabbed through the heart w/ his own sword instead (Sasuke's cool, just saying). Itachi would probably not do that. He would be smart enough to atleast use a clone to attack the man who single-handedly captured all the bijuus, beat the entire ninja alliance, and acquired the rinnegan. Most of the OP characters in the manga just attack w/ little to no strategy and just become cocky or rely on their ridiculous jutsus. Itachi doesn't do that, even though he has a few OP jutsus, he actually uses his brain.
Either way, they were both great characters and never really defeated, except by plot. Itachi=sick, dying, blind, terminal illness & let Sasuke win so he would look like a hero for taking down an S-Rank missing-nin
Nagato=died using Rinne Rebirth to revive everyone he killed in Konoha.
And at the blue- No, people don't hate Itachi. Dead characters (and Itachi's been dead for nearly half the series) are nearly always underrated in some way. Also, in general with the base in "vs" matchups, people either say "he stomps" or "he gets stomped" and don't give it much thought. People usually just think Nagato wins, whether it be low-diff, high-diff, or med-diff in their own opinion but just put something like "he obliterates" because that's their fav and we all know he's stronger. People go with the character who has more firepower 90% of the time and ignore intellect alot.
We saw Sasuke cut down larger Chibaku Tenseis with his sword. I don't see why Itachi can't use Totsuka to stab CT, however ridiculous "Totsuka GG" may sound here.
I guess it could be like this (imo- and assuming they know nothing about each other):
-Edo Nagato vs Edo Itachi= Itachi wins med to high diff
-Alive Nagato vs Alive Itachi= Nagato wins med diff (This depends on location alot too, though. Itachi can use his techs anywhere, because they're not very destructive. Nagato can't do that, when he used the paths to fight Jiraiya, he had to leave out any flashy or wide-range jutsu so that the village they were fighting in wouldn't be damaged. If they're in an area that Nagato somewhat cares for, then Itachi's chance goes up. If not, then Nagato wins.)
I think that Kishimoto wanted to portray Itachi and Nagato as somewhat of equals. Nagato's the powerhouse of decent intelligence, whilst Itachi's the genius with a decent amount of power. They balance out. But if they're alive, considering that Itachi was in a worse state than Nagato was with being terminally ill, (Nagato himself was crippled and drained of chakra to the point he couldn't move much, but his fighting style doesn't revolve around moving around much and he has corpses to attack anyway) and that susano'o usage takes alot of stamina, I doubt he wins.
I completely forgot about Sasuke busting those mega CTs, that's a good point. Though I don't think Totsuka could seal away CT, it may just be able to just traditionally slice it. Hmm...
I agree with Edo Itachi winning and the location argument. Though of course, in a versus matchup, a neutral location will be used so no one can get the upper hand.
Yeah, I always thought that portrayal-wise, they were equals. It's even further emphasized when they were working together as Edos. I always found that kind of symbolic, especially when Itachi talks about if they use their eyes together, they can accomplish anything. That put them on the same level for me.
I guess even with all these mini arguments in Itachi's favor, it's still Nagato>Itachi in the grand scheme of things.
I completely forgot about Sasuke busting those mega CTs, that's a good point. Though I don't think Totsuka could seal away CT, it may just be able to just traditionally slice it. Hmm...
I agree with Edo Itachi winning and the location argument. Though of course, in a versus matchup, a neutral location will be used so no one can get the upper hand.
Yeah, I always thought that portrayal-wise, they were equals. It's even further emphasized when they were working together as Edos. I always found that kind of symbolic, especially when Itachi talks about if they use their eyes together, they can accomplish anything. That put them on the same level for me.
I guess even with all these mini arguments in Itachi's favor, it's still Nagato>Itachi in the grand scheme of things.
I don't think you should make a "VS" thread. It will be bashed. Besides, most people DO go with who's more powerful right off the bat. Like this:
You must be registered for see links
People like to overhype overpowered characters. Saying Itachi gets stomped is bs. Itachi's not just going to walk out there blindly and die. He'll utilize clones, try to fool him, stategy, anything he can.
Threads like Nagato vs Itachi don't really get anywhere. Threads like these prove that:
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
^I really like this response from the above thread though:
Depends on their conditions. When they were alive, Itachi had a terminal illness, was blind, etc and Nagato was crippled, he would get tired from using a giant shinra tensei attack, and the rinnegan drained him.
Obviously, in terms of raw power Nagato beats Itachi by miles. But the thing that allows Itachi to compete against top tier shinobi is his intelligence, knowledge of jutsu, and the ability to predict his opponent's attacks.
Edo Tensei? Itachi wins. Why? Because you cannot kill and Edo, the only way to beat them is to seal them or undo the justu. Nagato has never shown any aptitude for sealing anyone, yeah he can rip out your soul, but that doesn't work on Edos. Itachi knows the hand seals for the justu and he also has the sword of Totsuka to seal him away if he goes that route.
Alive and in the condition shown in manga? That would be a terrible matchup for Itachi. He had terrible stamina and a terminal illness. And Nagato as well. Nagato is a cripple, but he can use his summons to move around. Itachi would probably get farther than Jiraiya did, due to being considerably stronger than him,but after defeating the 6 paths of Pain (if he could fight that long), I don't know if he would have enough energy to take down Nagato on top of all of that. But then again, Nagato got so worn out after destroying the village. His stamina wasn't the best either. It's not like this fight would go by quickly but I would lean more towards Nagato at the moment. I think it's worse to have sucky stamina and a terminal illness, blind, etc. than to be crippled and still make up for that by using summons' to move around.
Completely healthy and alive? Well the closest we have to that was when they were fighting as Edos. Itachi did figure out the Chibaku Tensei's weakness in seconds and sealed away Nagato. Yes, Bee and Naruto did help by throwing in their attacks which compensated for 2/3 of the power needed to destroy it, but then again they were quite far away at the moment they released the attack. Itachi took 3 seconds max to create the Yasaka Magatama beads so if he really wanted to, he could have just spammed that 2 more times and taken it out himself. But obviously Naruto had to be included, because well he's the main character and has to do something and Bee was there as well. Itachi told them what to do, but it's not like he looked like he had a sense of urgency about it. He just told them and then let Naruto take his time as he freaked out and was like "Oh okay" and attacked. Not trying to be a tard, honestly not, but Naruto and Bee were not needed there, they were there only for plot. Itachi wins w/ high difficulty.
Also keep in mind that there is a near 0% chance of Itachi dying in any fight. Not because he's overpowered. Because he's smart enough to know when to leave. He wouldn't allow for someone to kill him, he would know as the battle goes on whether he or his opponent has the upper hand. That and he uses clones to attack most of the time and has a wide variety of techniques in his arsenal.
This is off-topic but you know how Sasuke tried to jump Madara and got stabbed through the heart w/ his own sword instead (Sasuke's cool, just saying). Itachi would probably not do that. He would be smart enough to atleast use a clone to attack the man who single-handedly captured all the bijuus, beat the entire ninja alliance, and acquired the rinnegan. Most of the OP characters in the manga just attack w/ little to no strategy and just become cocky or rely on their ridiculous jutsus. Itachi doesn't do that, even though he has a few OP jutsus, he actually uses his brain.
Either way, they were both great characters and never really defeated, except by plot. Itachi=sick, dying, blind, terminal illness & let Sasuke win so he would look like a hero for taking down an S-Rank missing-nin
Nagato=died using Rinne Rebirth to revive everyone he killed in Konoha.
And at the blue- No, people don't hate Itachi. Dead characters (and Itachi's been dead for nearly half the series) are nearly always underrated in some way. Also, in general with the base in "vs" matchups, people either say "he stomps" or "he gets stomped" and don't give it much thought. People usually just think Nagato wins, whether it be low-diff, high-diff, or med-diff in their own opinion but just put something like "he obliterates" because that's their fav and we all know he's stronger. People go with the character who has more firepower 90% of the time and ignore intellect alot.
Yeah, I completely agree with you there. Though there was once a time, circa 2011-12, where this matchup didn't turn into a flamewar, and there was actual debating/discussion
That was a great response. One of the best I've seen, actually. Unbiased and objective. Sums up my thoughts perfectly.
@blue:
You were off NB for a while, right? You missed a giant, and I mean GIANT wank wave. Like the worst I've ever seen. People from #ItachiBase would make copious amounts of wank threads, easily 5 per day, and go into regular threads and start bashing other characters and members with things like "Itachi solos ur fav". This had a huge negative effect, because the "victims" of the bashing started to retaliate and bash Itachi in return. It just went back and forth (and is still going back and forth), to the point where basically any post regarding Itachi, biased or unbiased, receives bashing/hate.
I got kicked out of their group for trying to explain to them that this would happen
Yeah, I completely agree with you there. Though there was once a time, circa 2011-12, where this matchup didn't turn into a flamewar, and there was actual debating/discussion
That was a great response. One of the best I've seen, actually. Unbiased and objective. Sums up my thoughts perfectly.
@blue:
You were off NB for a while, right? You missed a giant, and I mean GIANT wank wave. Like the worst I've ever seen. People from #ItachiBase would make copious amounts of wank threads, easily 5 per day, and go into regular threads and start bashing other characters and members with things like "Itachi solos ur fav". This had a huge negative effect, because the "victims" of the bashing started to retaliate and bash Itachi in return. It just went back and forth (and is still going back and forth), to the point where basically any post regarding Itachi, biased or unbiased, receives bashing/hate.
I got kicked out of their group for trying to explain to them that this would happen
Yup, agreed. BM Minato is so OP, Kishi had to nerf him by getting rid of his arms
Ah it's okay, I'm typing them too lmao. It's always nice to have these in-depth discussions.
Yeah, I was gone for a little over a month. Glad that I wasn't here for that. Then again, I kind of wish I was so that I could counter all the wankers and possibly make a few stop.
What I meant was that no one (at least not anyone who understands the manga through a logical standpoint) hates or dislikes Itachi. 90% like him, 8% are indifferent, and then there's that 2% that apparently didn't read the story correctly. xD They just hate his fanbase, hence why they bash him.
I know right. I wanted to see Minato fight with his arms.
Yeah, I was gone for a little over a month. Glad that I wasn't here for that. Then again, I kind of wish I was so that I could counter all the wankers and possibly make a few stop.
What I meant was that no one (at least not anyone who understands the manga through a logical standpoint) hates or dislikes Itachi. 90% like him, 8% are indifferent, and then there's that 2% that apparently didn't read the story correctly. xD They just hate his fanbase, hence why they bash him.
I know right. I wanted to see Minato fight with his arms.
Oh believe me, I tried. But you would have probably done a better job than me =D
Yeah, I guess you're right.
Lmao, "didn't read the story correctly", that makes me think of that one guy who keeps ushering that Itachi is a murderous psychopath