The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

[HiddenSound]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Cannot thank you enough for this thread, and I wish I could + rep you right now lol
A very , very interesting read. That would be a perfect final villain, Sōjobō.

One thing I disagree with however, is the point with the statues in Itachi and Danzō's conversation. I was under the impression the one on the right was Buddha, representing peace, and the Asura (who have multiple faces, see Pain's Asura Path body), which represent violence, on the left. Violence is the path Itachi and Danzō chose.
But other than that little nitpicking detail, great thread, man!

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Cannot thank you enough for this thread, and I wish I could + rep you right now lol
A very , very interesting read. That would be a perfect final villain, Sōjobō.

One thing I disagree with however, is the point with the statues in Itachi and Danzō's conversation. I was under the impression the one on the right was Buddha, representing peace, and the Asura (who have multiple faces, see Pain's Asura Path body), which represent violence, on the left. Violence is the path Itachi and Danzō chose.
But other than that little nitpicking detail, great thread, man!

Hey thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the thread.

To your point about the statues, you say one is Buddha representing peace and the other Asura, which represents violence; well you may not have noticed, but you are kind of making my point for me. That is basically the duality that has been fed to us through this whole story. Can it not be argued that the two differences in the statues you pointed out parallel the differences between the two opposing natures we have seen many other times? Peace, the younger son, Hashirama, Naruto. Violence (or power), the elder son, Madara, Sasuke... I am simply taking it a step further saying that the Juubi and Sojobo are also represented in this clash of peace vs power. Which is shown in these statues. The point I think the author was trying to make by having Itachi head in the direction of the Asura statue, was that he chose peace through power and as we found out during the Kabuto fight, he would regret that decision. But again, that "violence", or "power" we see so many people choosing as the answer, is founded by Sojobo. I hope I'm being clear with my explanation.


Thanks again for reading and commenting.

 

[Multiply]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Thinking about it, how Kishimoto (by his own confession) is an avid gamer, and that he literally took many character designs and concepts from 90's video games:

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And that Edo Tensei was roughly based on the Soul Transfusion of the Sovereign's Rite in Valkyrie Profile. I'm beginning to wonder if the Shinju/Fruit backstory was based on the Divine Tree of Legend of Dragoon:

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It is said that the 108th fruit of the Divine Tree gives birth to the Virage Embryo, the God of Destruction. Birthed by the tree in order to eradicate the current species so that new species can be born (cycle of creation-destruction-rebirth) so in order to prevent this and avoid extinction, the people in LoD separated the Virage Embryo's soul fom his body, and hurled its body into the sky which became the Moon that never sets:

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No stahp Derp. This thread already blew my mind, now with this U_U

 

[The Sach]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Interesting read and plausible theory indeed, I have to rep you..
The only thing that comes to my mind which goes against this theory is, is it OK to introduce such a 'different type of character' at this point of story??:yeah:
It is up to Kishi finally, he has to decide where he wants to take it. If he wants to introduce this character as a final villain, he can, otherwise probably this character was just a reference he used to take the story forward, who knows??=D=D

 

[HiddenSound]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Hey thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the thread.

To your point about the statues, you say one is Buddha representing peace and the other Asura, which represents violence; well you may not have noticed, but you are kind of making my point for me. That is basically the duality that has been fed to us through this whole story. Can it not be argued that the two differences in the statues you pointed out parallel the differences between the two opposing natures we have seen many other times? Peace, the younger son, Hashirama, Naruto. Violence (or power), the elder son, Madara, Sasuke... I am simply taking it a step further saying that the Juubi and Sojobo are also represented in this clash of peace vs power. Which is shown in these statues. The point I think the author was trying to make by having Itachi head in the direction of the Asura statue, was that he chose peace through power and as we found out during the Kabuto fight, he would regret that decision. But again, that "violence", or "power" we see so many people choosing as the answer, is founded by Sojobo. I hope I'm being clear with my explanation.


Thanks again for reading and commenting.

I see, I never viewed exactly that way. Again, very interesting
And yes, you were clear Lol

 

[AlphaScythian]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Very nice observation and analysis, but i dont think kishi will got this way.

The 7 feather fan got me wondering.

Spoiler

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[Shinozgr8]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

I've come to believe that orochimaru still has significance in this manga. Possibly his ancestor, yamata, had something to do with the trickery of the princess (like adam and eve) and also with the story of susanoo. maybe yamata wants to exact his revenge against susanoo using orochimaru. idk just too much running thru my mind to post it all

 

[Handsome Jack]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Damn... God Job... O_O

 

[Naijakid]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Yes, I made a similar theory before that the Juubi's sapient persona has a name or Kotodama:

That's cool

 

[AGoodBoy]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Will never happen. You just shat on the finale of this manga with that mind blowing theory. Unless kishi implements this, somehow, the rest of the manga is now ruined for everyone here who has read it. Thanks douchebag( That's a compliment btw ).

Good theory.

 

[paratise]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

That was nice, both educating and good to read.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

I don't believe Madara can take the initiative again as antagonist, Kishimoto did not release those Bijuus only to be resealed again inside a villain, no, he put them in the battlefield because their powers are needed to combat a far greater threat.

Viz

Spoiler

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"Signify" means "to herald" (to indicate something is about to happen)

Spoiler

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I think the true danger lies inside the Shinju's flower, I believe Kishimoto heavily borrowed plot themes from Legend of Dragoon (A Yoshiko Kishimoto was involve in the game's production, though I'm not sure if she is related to Masashi, she does live in Okinawa though where Masashi resides) The 108th fruit of the Divine Tree gives birth to the God of Destruction, birthed by the tree to eradicate the current species so that new species can be born (cycle of creation of creation-death-rebirth) when the people in LoD found out about this, they separated the body of the God of Destruction from its Soul and sent its body/shell into the sky which became the Moon That Never Sets.

Spoiler

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Plot necessitates the Flower to bloom even with Obito's defeat and the extraction of the Bijuus, it would be very anticlimactic from a writer's perspective to introduce the Flower and not allow it to blossom, and it also stands to reason that the Shinju is still there (regardless of the extracted Bijuus) because it's about to play a key role in the upcoming scenario.

Fukasaku is 800 years old and yet he thought that Rikudou was just a myth, it stands to reason that the events of the Shinju, Kaguya and Hagoromo happened 200 years prior to Fukasaku's birth (since the Fruit comes every millenia) if the current timeline is Fukasaku's Age (800) + 200 years = 1000 years already so the Fruit will once again emerge, possibly from the Shinju's Flower itself.

The Elder Toad was stated to be more than a thousand years old accdg. to the official databooks, so he was probably alive when the Juubi vs Rikudou incident occur but have forgotten it due to senility.

I don't think Madara can take the initiative again as primary antagonist:

1. He revealed his trump card to Hashirama (and a trump card revealed prior to its execution is destined to fail - General Shonen Rule)

2. He literally has no connections or interactions with the protagonists, one could argue that it would be Sasuke but Madara has shown no signs of interest in him, his interest and dichotomy is strictly with Hashirama only.

3. Palette-Swap: Madara would just be a palette swap of Obito (concerning the theme that reality is hell)

4. The introduction of the Shinju backstory is a foreshadowing of the upcoming dynamics between the God of Narutoverse and humanity, how the latter transgressed the former for stealing its powers.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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The symbol of the Trimurti is the Lotus, Brahma himself was self-born from a Lotus Flower. I think a Shiva-like (Destroyer) entity will come out of the flower. This will coincide with the Rudraksha Tree aka Shiva's Tree which literally translate as Rudra's Eyes (Rudra is the wrathful manifestation of Shiva)

Remember that the theme of Naruto is Samsara (the Rinnegan itself literally translates as "The Eye of Samsara")

Spoiler

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The Wheel of Samsara is the wheel of suffering, of the neverending cycle of Creation-Destruction and Rebirth which is held by a Dharmapala (Wrathful Deity)


The Buddha on the uppermost right is pointing at the Moon symbolising liberation from the Wheel.

The Moon became enshrouded by clouds in the latest chapter could be an ominous symbol of what is about to happen:

Spoiler

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[Scryed]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

I don't believe Madara can take the initiative again as antagonist, Kishimoto did not release those Bijuus only to be resealed again inside a villain, no, he put them in the battlefield because their powers are needed to combat a far greater threat.

Viz

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

"Signify" means "to herald" (to indicate something is about to happen)

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I think the true danger lies inside the Shinju's flower, I believe Kishimoto heavily borrowed plot themes from Legend of Dragoon (A Yoshiko Kishimoto was involve in the game's production, though I'm not sure if she is related to Masashi, she does live in Okinawa though where Masashi resides) The 108th fruit of the Divine Tree gives birth to the God of Destruction, birthed by the tree to eradicate the current species so that new species can be born (cycle of creation of creation-death-rebirth) when the people in LoD found out about this, they separated the body of the God of Destruction from its Soul and sent its body/shell into the sky which became the Moon That Never Sets.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Plot necessitates the Flower to bloom even with Obito's defeat and the extraction of the Bijuus, it would be very anticlimactic from a writer's perspective to introduce the Flower and not allow it to blossom, and it also stands to reason that the Shinju is still there (regardless of the extracted Bijuus) because it's about to play a key role in the upcoming scenario.

Fukasaku is 800 years old and yet he thought that Rikudou was just a myth, it stands to reason that the events of the Shinju, Kaguya and Hagoromo happened 200 years prior to Fukasaku's birth (since the Fruit comes every millenia) if the current timeline is Fukasaku's Age (800) + 200 years = 1000 years already so the Fruit will once again emerge, possibly from the Shinju's Flower itself.

The Elder Toad was stated to be more than a thousand years old accdg. to the official databooks, so he was probably alive when the Juubi vs Rikudou incident occur but have forgotten it due to senility.

I don't think Madara can take the initiative again as primary antagonist:

1. He revealed his trump card to Hashirama (and a trump card revealed prior to its execution is destined to fail - General Shonen Rule)

2. He literally has no connections or interactions with the protagonists, one could argue that it would be Sasuke but Madara has shown no signs of interest in him, his interest and dichotomy is strictly with Hashirama only.

3. Palette-Swap: Madara would just be a palette swap of Obito (concerning the theme that reality is hell)

4. The introduction of the Shinju backstory is a foreshadowing of the upcoming dynamics between the God of Narutoverse and humanity, how the latter transgressed the former for stealing its powers.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The symbol of the Trimurti is the Lotus, Brahma himself was self-born from a Lotus Flower. I think a Shiva-like (Destroyer) entity will come out of the flower. This will coincide with the Rudraksha Tree aka Shiva's Tree which literally translate as Rudra's Eyes (Rudra is the wrathful manifestation of Shiva)

Remember that the theme of Naruto is Samsara (the Rinnegan itself literally translates as "The Eye of Samsara")

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The Wheel of Samsara is the wheel of suffering, of the neverending cycle of Creation-Destruction and Rebirth which is held by a Dharmapala (Wrathful Deity)


The Buddha on the uppermost right is pointing at the Moon symbolising liberation from the Wheel.

The Moon became enshrouded by clouds in the latest chapter could be an ominous symbol of what is about to happen:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I really hope there is a Sojobo kind of villain introduced.

I'm also starting to believe there will be one if Kishi is taking his ideas from the things you posted.


For me, Madara just doesn't cut it.

 

[From the Dark Spire]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Oh wow.. Awesome thread man. I agree with all of this, this would be pretty cool to see.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

I really hope there is a Sojobo kind of villain introduced.

I'm also starting to believe there will be one if Kishi is taking his ideas from the things you posted.


For me, Madara just doesn't cut it.

Indeed, introducing the Shinju backstory of how humanity stole its powers and allowing Madara again to usurp that power goes against the morally didactic theme Kishi had introduced.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

If you're gonna go mythology and kaguya being tempted to eat the fruit just go the obvious, SNAKE. Usually the most obvious/simple answer is the right one. Orochimaru tempted her to eat the fruit to see what would happen since as an experimentalist he wouldn't risk himself without knowing the consequences.

ORO FOR LAST VILLAIN 2013.

 

[Scryed]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Indeed, introducing the Shinju backstory of how humanity stole its powers and allowing Madara again to usurp that power goes against the morally didactic theme Kishi had introduced.

I feel as if Madara will be "TNJ" since he isn't doing it for the sole purpose of enslaving the world. Perhaps by Hashirama.

If a true evil villain is going to be introduced into Naruto, then it'll be one who simply has a malicious intent such as Sojobo.

If a Sojobo-like villain is introduced and Madara does team up with Hashirama, then perhaps we'll be seeing a Susanoo covered Shinsusenju.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

I feel as if Madara will be "TNJ" since he isn't doing it for the sole purpose of enslaving the world. Perhaps by Hashirama.

If a true evil villain is going to be introduced into Naruto, then it'll be one who simply has a malicious intent such as Sojobo.

If a Sojobo-like villain is introduced and Madara does team up with Hashirama, then perhaps we'll be seeing a Susanoo covered Shinsusenju.

When two opposing forces are in harmony true piece is achieved, if Kakashi and Obito's MS will team up then it's not farfetched that Hashi and Madz will too.

 

[Scryed]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Do you think it's possible for Obito and Kakashi to awaken a Susanoo if they fight side by side?

Or is it just amaterasu and tsukyomi since I'm not sure but I think those 3 are related in mythology. Forgot where I read this but you can look it up just incase i'm mistaken.

 

[Xāvî1]

Re: The Final Villian we all missed. How he's been hiding right under our "noses"

Awesome dude