[Theory] The Dragon Serpent and Orochimaru

[Antichrist]

When did you figure that out ?

Here is the link when I said Kaguya maybe had a third son , Here are some posts as example :

so your saying hago killed hamura after they sealed juubi which is kaguya, then she had another son? no

It kind of seems like a random theory with nothing from the manga suggesting it.

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After the manga confirmed that Kaguya had BZ as a third son ..... I expanded the research

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[Nattana]

The snake-dragon connection is based upon Japanese legends, not the Bible.

 

[HNIC]

I don't like theories, they never become true

 

[DiverseReason]

I agree the more we learn about the story the more connections we can make to the Bible. I'm curious if Kishi has read the bible now.

Burn your picture and sig with fire and save the world thanks spiders are disgusting

 

[Gamaken]

I also think it's worth noting that the sage knew the frog that made the prophecies, I think he's called Gamamaru. If the sage knew him then maybe Kaguya knew the white snake sage that taught Kabuto Senjutsu.

The snake is here -

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[shuu]

I also think it's worth noting that the sage knew the frog that made the prophecies, I think he's called Gamamaru. If the sage knew him then maybe Kaguya knew the white snake sage that taught Kabuto Senjutsu.

The snake is here -

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Also note that the building and etc that the snake sage is within looks like a dragon, likely inspired by the end result of it's sage mode.

 

[ROHAN]

The snake-dragon connection is based upon Japanese legends, not the Bible.

Well, Kishi takes inspiration from many historical sources. Essentially, the whole plot of Naruto is a mix of many religious histories. So, I connected the points of many religions here. Dragons and Snakes are connected. The source of where Dragons came from being Japan doesn't hold much weight here.

I also think it's worth noting that the sage knew the frog that made the prophecies, I think he's called Gamamaru. If the sage knew him then maybe Kaguya knew the white snake sage that taught Kabuto Senjutsu.

The snake is here -

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Also note that the building and etc that the snake sage is within looks like a dragon, likely inspired by the end result of it's sage mode.

Yeah, I think the Snake transforming into a dragon might reference Orochimaru betraying Kaguya, getting the Juubi's Fruit and transforming from a Snake to a Dragon and being freed from the curse.

 

[Angelic.]

lol my comment got deleted bc of that troll poem. xD

wasnt oro researching the zetsu? also kabuto wanted one. hiruzen took away oros arms, like a dragon being turned into a snake.
interesting points at the end about hashis sm being needed for madara and kaguya. he was researching how to undo the rds for those things. altho he didnt seem intersested in allowing obito or madara to activate IT. i want him to do something.

 

[ROHAN]

lol my comment got deleted bc of that troll poem. xD

wasnt oro researching the zetsu? also kabuto wanted one. hiruzen took away oros arms, like a dragon being turned into a snake.
interesting points at the end about hashis sm being needed for madara and kaguya. he was researching how to undo the rds for those things. altho he didnt seem intersested in allowing obito or madara to activate IT. i want him to do something.

Well, Orochimaru was completely neutral to IT and even now his motives are unclear. I wonder if the IT actually brought out the Serpent's consciousness from within him as it was casted by Kaguya and the Shinju which might have triggered the Serpent's sleeping hatred within him to awaken.

 

[Mr Hiru]

So, I have read a few theories about Orochimaru recently. This got me thinking and according to me, his role is far from over in this story.

First, I will try to draw attention to the Bible story :-

Spoiler

Spoiler

In chapter 2, after God creates Adam, God puts Adam in the garden of Eden. And in the midst of the garden, among "every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food," God plants "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." God tells Adam he is free to eat of the fruit of any tree except the one tree in the center of the garden. And then God creates Eve to keep Adam from being lonely and to give him a helper.

In chapter 3, the serpent comes into the story. The serpent is described as being "more crafty than any other wild creature." The serpent convinces Eve that God did not really mean what he said to Adam about not eating of the one tree, and after taking a good look at the tree, Eve samples its fruit. She likes how it tastes that it is a "delight to the eyes," and that it is "to be desired to make one wise"; and she gives some of the tree's fruit to Adam. He seems to forget, at least momentarily, what God had told him about not eating of that particular tree, and he eats the fruit that Eve has given him. Then God appears.

After being questioned, Adam admits to God that he ate of the tree, but goes on to offer an excuse for his behavior: "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate." God then asks Eve: "What is this that you have done (Ate the fruit)?" And she makes an excuse for her behavior: "The serpent tricked me, and I ate the fruit."

In this story, we see a few similarities to the Legend Of the Shinju in Naruto :-

Fruit - The Shinju's Fruit which gives knowledge and power.

Eve - Kaguya who ate the Fruit.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil - Shinju, the God Tree.

The Serpent - The Serpent referencing Orochimaru (I will clear it up ahead).

Moving on, I will focus on what the Serpent was :-

Spoiler

The serpent who talks with Eve is generally identified as an animal that was made by Yahweh among the beasts of the field. It also has legs.

The description sounds very similar to that of a Dragon :-

Spoiler

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A dragon is a legendary creature, typically with serpentine or reptilian traits, that features in the myths of many cultures.

See, the connection of Dragons with Snakes ? Not to mention, even Kabuto's Snake Sage Mode is connected to Dragons.

Spoiler

Kabuto continued Orochimaru's research and discovered the Ryūchi Cave, where he learned senjutsu from the White Snake Sage. He gained access to a Sage Mode which, according to him, allowed him to figuratively transcend from a snake into a "dragon".

Spoiler

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Here, we see that Kabuto is able to transcend from a Snake to a Dragon. And this is related to the curse placed on the Serpent by the Shinju.

The Curse placed on the Serpent :-

Spoiler

As, said in the previous point, The Serpent might have been a Dragon-like Creature. When, Eve (Kaguya) ate the fruit, she put the blame on the Serpent.

The snake is punished by god for its role in Adam and Eve's fall by being made to crawl on its belly in the dust.

Going by this logic, we can assume that The Dragon like creature was cursed by the Shinju for making Kaguya eat it's fruit and was transformed into a Serpent or snake.

Obviously, The Serpent was filled with Hatred as it was now in a lowly form and plotted Revenge aganist the Shinju and Kaguya (As both were responsible for his fall).

A) Kaguya didn't take the blame and put it on the Serpent.

B) The Shinju cursed the Serpent.

And this is where Orochimaru comes in.

Orochimaru's role :-

Spoiler

I will now focus on a Theory made by Rabbit Teth which shows the similarities between Kaguya and Orochimaru :-

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The Theory actually raises a thought that Orochimaru could have been a transmigrant of the Serpent like creature cursed by the Shinju.

It could be similar to the Ashura and Indra transmigration. While their Transmigration was fueled by a will to fight.

The Serpent's transmigration was fuelled by a desire of revenge against Kaguya and the Shinju.

Perhaps the connection between Orochimaru and the Serpent lies in the White Snakes connected to Orochimaru ?

Spoiler

Orochimaru's sadistic attitude was presumably due to the death of his parents. At some point after losing them, Orochimaru found a white snake near his parents' grave, with Hiruzen's explanation of it representing fortune and rebirth inspiring Orochimaru to study kinjutsu and obtain knowledge of all techniques.

Underlined : Kinda reminds you of Transmigration, doesn't it, espescially the Rebirth part.

And here are the manga panels of it :-

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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So, I would say that the possibility of Orochimaru being the Serpent's Transmigrant is still there.

Conclusion :-

Spoiler

So, to sum this up :-

1) The Dragon may have helped Kaguya in getting the fruit of the Shinju.

2) The Dragon was cursed by the Shinju and transformed into a Serpent for helping Kaguya get to the fruit.

3) The Serpent was filled with Revenge against Kaguya and the Shinju and as such his Hatred led to his Transmigration.

4) The Serpent might have helped Black Zetsu in reviving Kaguya in his previous Transmigrations.

5) Eventually Orochimaru became the Transmigrant of the Serpent and is currently plotting revenge on Kaguya and the Shinju.

Spoiler

Interestingly, Orochimaru gave near about all the components to reviving Kaguya :-

A) Kabuto under the control of Orochimaru revives Edo Madara. (Madara's revival wouldn't have happened anyways because Obito was against it).

B) Orochimaru revives Edo Hashirama giving the revived Madara, Sage Mode and in a way making him more compatible with the Juubi and eventually the Shinju.

The above led to the revival of Kaguya.

Each statement is flawlessly well connected. +rep

 

[Red Slayer]

nice theory

 

[InvaderRaz]

I also think it's worth noting that the sage knew the frog that made the prophecies, I think he's called Gamamaru. If the sage knew him then maybe Kaguya knew the white snake sage that taught Kabuto Senjutsu.

The snake is here -

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I thought this while reading your theory as well... Makes me question the idea of him being a reincarnate of the snake and maybe he is more like an extension of will (i.e. kaguya/bz) because wasn't it said that Oro couldn't achieve full snake sage mode for some reason? which of course would make me believe he could be the reincarnation, because the dragon was turned into a snake and therefore cannot become a dragon again. Your theory is very good and has clearly made me very confused as to Oro's purpose in the manga now.

 

[ROHAN]

Each statement is flawlessly well connected. +rep

nice theory

Thanks.

I thought this while reading your theory as well... Makes me question the idea of him being a reincarnate of the snake and maybe he is more like an extension of will (i.e. kaguya/bz) because wasn't it said that Oro couldn't achieve full snake sage mode for some reason? which of course would make me believe he could be the reincarnation, because the dragon was turned into a snake and therefore cannot become a dragon again. Your theory is very good and has clearly made me very confused as to Oro's purpose in the manga now.

Well, Orochimaru has a purpose in the manga because Kishi has kept him around for so long. And as Rabbit Teth said, he fits the story a bit too well to be irrelevant. I think that the Snake can repel the curse and become a Dragon if he gets to the fruit. Perhaps, that was the Serpent's original intention, to use the Shinju's fruit as a source of power just as how Kaguya used it.

 

[Ψ Veritas Ψ]

Dragonor. You are one of the best theorists' I have seen hands Down!
Interesting topic combined with Great material and Deduction, simply flawless!

+ Rep

 

[Orochimagus]

Um...No.

Kishimoto's work was not inspired on "various other religions"...His work is based on Shinto and Buddhism, the religions of Japan.
Originally Japan had a set of deities from their first religion,Shinto: Izanagi, Izanami, Amaterasu, Susanoo, etc. - Later on there was a Buddhist movement (Indra, Ashura, and other gods) and Japan melded these two into Shinto-Buddhism. Naruto is not going to add Christianity into this because it is a homage to his own religion. The World Tree was also not taken from Christianity since it is pretty much something that appears in other religions such as Nordic with the tree of Yggdrasil. Kaguya was taken from the tale of the bamboo that features a character called Princess Kaguya, not Eve. So let me re-iterate...No.

 

[Sunstorm]

this is actually a good theory +rep bruh

Where is your sig from? That doesn't look like that OVA and it's not from the Anime either, I've never seen that scene before :O

OT: Interesting thread. But if it were true, Kishi definetely ruined it by putting Orochimaru asleep

 

[Orochimagus]

Orochimaru is not asleep, Sunstorm. He cannotbe turned into a Zetsu because he is already one. He escaped soon after.

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[ROHAN]

Kaguya is related to Kimimaro because of the same bone powers.

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Shouldn't the zig-zag hairstyles, similar makeup above eyebrows, and names be enough to clue you guys into their strong blood relation. That's why Orochimaru was so interested in them. Think about it, who is Orochimaru mostly interested in. The answer is Uchiha, Senju, Uzumaki, Hyuuga, and Kaguya clans. All those clans are highly related to Kaguya.

^ The above kinda makes sense as it strengthens the connection between Orochimaru and Kaguya.

 

[Hightimes]

I ****ing knew it. I've posted so many threads about this and everyone called me stupid