[Theory] The Dragon Serpent and Orochimaru

ROHAN

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
23,854
Kin
95💸
Kumi
1,799💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
So, I have read a few theories about Orochimaru recently. This got me thinking and according to me, his role is far from over in this story.

First, I will try to draw attention to the Bible story :-

In chapter 2, after God creates Adam, God puts Adam in the garden of Eden. And in the midst of the garden, among "every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food," God plants "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." God tells Adam he is free to eat of the fruit of any tree except the one tree in the center of the garden. And then God creates Eve to keep Adam from being lonely and to give him a helper.

In chapter 3, the serpent comes into the story. The serpent is described as being "more crafty than any other wild creature." The serpent convinces Eve that God did not really mean what he said to Adam about not eating of the one tree, and after taking a good look at the tree, Eve samples its fruit. She likes how it tastes that it is a "delight to the eyes," and that it is "to be desired to make one wise"; and she gives some of the tree's fruit to Adam. He seems to forget, at least momentarily, what God had told him about not eating of that particular tree, and he eats the fruit that Eve has given him. Then God appears.

After being questioned, Adam admits to God that he ate of the tree, but goes on to offer an excuse for his behavior: "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate." God then asks Eve: "What is this that you have done (Ate the fruit)?" And she makes an excuse for her behavior: "The serpent tricked me, and I ate the fruit."

In this story, we see a few similarities to the Legend Of the Shinju in Naruto :-

Fruit - The Shinju's Fruit which gives knowledge and power.

Eve - Kaguya who ate the Fruit.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil - Shinju, the God Tree.

The Serpent - The Serpent referencing Orochimaru (I will clear it up ahead).

Moving on, I will focus on what the Serpent was :-

The serpent who talks with Eve is generally identified as an animal that was made by Yahweh among the beasts of the field. It also has legs.

The description sounds very similar to that of a Dragon :-

You must be registered for see images
A dragon is a legendary creature, typically with serpentine or reptilian traits, that features in the myths of many cultures.

See, the connection of Dragons with Snakes ? Not to mention, even Kabuto's Snake Sage Mode is connected to Dragons.

Kabuto continued Orochimaru's research and discovered the Ryūchi Cave, where he learned senjutsu from the White Snake Sage. He gained access to a Sage Mode which, according to him, allowed him to figuratively transcend from a snake into a "dragon".

You must be registered for see images

Here, we see that Kabuto is able to transcend from a Snake to a Dragon. And this is related to the curse placed on the Serpent by the Shinju.

The Curse placed on the Serpent :-

As, said in the previous point, The Serpent might have been a Dragon-like Creature. When, Eve (Kaguya) ate the fruit, she put the blame on the Serpent.

The snake is punished by god for its role in Adam and Eve's fall by being made to crawl on its belly in the dust.

Going by this logic, we can assume that The Dragon like creature was cursed by the Shinju for making Kaguya eat it's fruit and was transformed into a Serpent or snake.

Obviously, The Serpent was filled with Hatred as it was now in a lowly form and plotted Revenge aganist the Shinju and Kaguya (As both were responsible for his fall).

A) Kaguya didn't take the blame and put it on the Serpent.

B) The Shinju cursed the Serpent.


And this is where Orochimaru comes in.

Orochimaru's role :-

I will now focus on a Theory made by Rabbit Teth which shows the similarities between Kaguya and Orochimaru :-



The Theory actually raises a thought that Orochimaru could have been a transmigrant of the Serpent like creature cursed by the Shinju.

It could be similar to the Ashura and Indra transmigration. While their Transmigration was fueled by a will to fight.

The Serpent's transmigration was fuelled by a desire of revenge against Kaguya and the Shinju.


Perhaps the connection between Orochimaru and the Serpent lies in the White Snakes connected to Orochimaru ?

Orochimaru's sadistic attitude was presumably due to the death of his parents. At some point after losing them, Orochimaru found a white snake near his parents' grave, with Hiruzen's explanation of it representing fortune and rebirth inspiring Orochimaru to study kinjutsu and obtain knowledge of all techniques.

Underlined : Kinda reminds you of Transmigration, doesn't it, espescially the Rebirth part.

And here are the manga panels of it :-

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

So, I would say that the possibility of Orochimaru being the Serpent's Transmigrant is still there.

Conclusion :-

So, to sum this up :-

1) The Dragon may have helped Kaguya in getting the fruit of the Shinju.

2) The Dragon was cursed by the Shinju and transformed into a Serpent for helping Kaguya get to the fruit.

3) The Serpent was filled with Revenge against Kaguya and the Shinju and as such his Hatred led to his Transmigration.

4) The Serpent might have helped Black Zetsu in reviving Kaguya in his previous Transmigrations.

5) Eventually Orochimaru became the Transmigrant of the Serpent and is currently plotting revenge on Kaguya and the Shinju.

Interestingly, Orochimaru gave near about all the components to reviving Kaguya :-

A) Kabuto under the control of Orochimaru revives Edo Madara. (Madara's revival wouldn't have happened anyways because Obito was against it).

B) Orochimaru revives Edo Hashirama giving the revived Madara, Sage Mode and in a way making him more compatible with the Juubi and eventually the Shinju.

The above led to the revival of Kaguya.
 
Last edited:

ROHAN

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
23,854
Kin
95💸
Kumi
1,799💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
You lost me at the bibble nonsense
I don't think it's nonsense when there are so many similarities between Naruto and the Bible. Kishi could have taken inspiration from the Bible as it is a well known text around the world. It is also the only Historical story in which a tree gives rise to a fruit.
 

SolarSpider

Active member
Regular
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
972
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I don't think it's nonsense when there are so many similarities between Naruto and the Bible. Kishi could have taken inspiration from the Bible as it is a well known text around the world. It is also the only Historical story in which a tree gives rise to a fruit.
I agree the more we learn about the story the more connections we can make to the Bible. I'm curious if Kishi has read the bible now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ROHAN

NaruSasuRival

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
914
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Rep+. I actually made a similar theory not long ago and was bashed by all the people who get freaked out when they see the Bible mentioned here. My theory actually complemented yours and it concerned the fact that after eating the fruit that give knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve were prevented from eating another fruit - that of life, or immortality.

Interestingly, we can see that Orochimaru is also trying to gain immortality. His initial plan could have been to gain knowledge and power, then later immortality. By using Kaguya, he may have obtained part of the knowledge and power, but not all of it. Now, as the Bible also mentioned, there is a perpetual fight between the serpent and the children of the woman.

Not only Orochimaru wanted Sasuke's body - a descendant of the woman, but Orochimaru is one of the people Naruto never get along with. You can also see that Naruto never got along with Kabuto when he found that Kabuto inherited Orochimaru's will. Somehow, there will be a huge battle at the end between Orochimaru and Naruto. This battle is also mentioned in the Bible were it start with a woman causing rebellion and prostitution. Well, Orochimaru may end up getting the power he wants, and a huge final battle will result from where Naruto has to save the world from oblivion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ROHAN

ReeseKage

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
640
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Good theory bro. Good reference to the bible too. I believe kishi got his ideas from the Shinto gods and the orochi dragon. Still + rep bro
 

Rabbit Teth

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Messages
360
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
I wouldn't get too hung up on the story's Biblical origins. The story of the tree of life is a lot older than Christianity, Judaism or even organised religion. It turns up all over the world in many different varieties:


As for how aware Kishi is of Bible stories - well his twin brother wrote O Parts Hunter, otherwise known as 666 Satan, so I'd say they're something he's at least familiar with:


Oro just fits the story too perfectly to be relegated to fodder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ROHAN

NaruSasuRival

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
914
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I wouldn't get too hung up on the story's Biblical origins. The story of the tree of life is a lot older than Christianity, Judaism or even organised religion. It turns up all over the world in many different varieties:


As for how aware Kishi is of Bible stories - well his twin brother wrote O Parts Hunter, otherwise known as 666 Satan, so I'd say they're something he's at least familiar with:


Oro just fits the story too perfectly to be relegated to fodder.
See, no story is older than the Bible, simply because the Bible started at the beginning of the world. Only those who don't believe in the Bible date it from the time it was written. However, if you believe, then it dates from the minute the story therein started, and in that beginning, there was no human.

Now, let me clear one mistake that most people who don't believe in the Bible make often.

The reason the story of the serpent exist in a lot of culture is because it is true. Initially, everyone were children of God, descendants of Adam and Eve. Then, people started to forsake God, and do whatever they wanted. See, Abraham who is the beginning of the new relationship between God and human was not even hebrew because there was no hebrew nation at that time. Rather, Abraham was a Syrian named Abram. God chose him to establish a covenant with him because his family was observing the cult to some degree. This show you that Religion existed before the Bible was given to Moses, and therefore, the story of the garden of Eden was passed down to generation, certainly modified with time.

My point is that Moses was the channel used by God to make things clear and tell the exact story of the beginning. The book that results from the revelation he received was new, but it content was as old as whatever pieces other people have been passing down.
 

osba

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
1,425
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
see, no story is older than the bible, simply because the bible started at the beginning of the world. Only those who don't believe in the bible date it from the time it was written. However, if you believe, then it dates from the minute the story therein started, and in that beginning, there was no human.

Now, let me clear one mistake that most people who don't believe in the bible make often.

The reason the story of the serpent exist in a lot of culture is because it is true. Initially, everyone were children of god, descendants of adam and eve. Then, people started to forsake god, and do whatever they wanted. see, abraham who is the beginning of the new relationship between god and human was not even hebrew because there was no hebrew nation at that time. Rather, abraham was a syrian named abram. god chose him to establish a covenant with him because his family was observing the cult to some degree. This show you that religion existed before the bible was given to moses, and therefore, the story of the garden of eden was passed down to generation, certainly modified with time.

My point is that moses was the channel used by god to make things clear and tell the exact story of the beginning. The book that results from the revelation he received was new, but it content was as old as whatever pieces other people have been passing down.
hahahahahahaha
 

ROHAN

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
23,854
Kin
95💸
Kumi
1,799💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Rep+. I actually made a similar theory not long ago and was bashed by all the people who get freaked out when they see the Bible mentioned here. My theory actually complemented yours and it concerned the fact that after eating the fruit that give knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve were prevented from eating another fruit - that of life, or immortality.

Interestingly, we can see that Orochimaru is also trying to gain immortality. His initial plan could have been to gain knowledge and power, then later immortality. By using Kaguya, he may have obtained part of the knowledge and power, but not all of it. Now, as the Bible also mentioned, there is a perpetual fight between the serpent and the children of the woman.

Not only Orochimaru wanted Sasuke's body - a descendant of the woman, but Orochimaru is one of the people Naruto never get along with. You can also see that Naruto never got along with Kabuto when he found that Kabuto inherited Orochimaru's will. Somehow, there will be a huge battle at the end between Orochimaru and Naruto. This battle is also mentioned in the Bible were it start with a woman causing rebellion and prostitution. Well, Orochimaru may end up getting the power he wants, and a huge final battle will result from where Naruto has to save the world from oblivion.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the story's Biblical origins. The story of the tree of life is a lot older than Christianity, Judaism or even organised religion. It turns up all over the world in many different varieties:


As for how aware Kishi is of Bible stories - well his twin brother wrote O Parts Hunter, otherwise known as 666 Satan, so I'd say they're something he's at least familiar with:


Oro just fits the story too perfectly to be relegated to fodder.

Yeah, I think Orochimaru fits the role of a "True Villian" perfectly due to the following Reasons :-

A) Unlike the other villians, Orochimaru is completely motivated for selfish reasons and does not hesitate in using other people. He also does not have any regrets over his actions either.

B) We are seeing a chain of betrayals here : Akatsuki < Nagato < Obito < Madara < Kaguya. But Orochimaru does not fit in this at all. He is a complete wild card and as such unpredictable.
 

Zealous Sparks

Banned
Legendary
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
12,960
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Great theory :)

I would still like to see Orochimaru have some future role in the manga. It also makes you wonder why it is that young Orochimaru wears somewhat similar clothing to that of Indra and Ashura (the tomoes on the front). We have yet to see what Orochimaru's parents look like, and if one of them shares the same serpent-like traits. Perhaps his unique traits are a result of a transmigration as you suggested.

Maybe his entire family on which ever parent's side were part of this curse, as all snakes were cursed to walk the Earth without legs. It could also be said that his inability to achieve Sage Mode in his original body is a part of this curse, hence he had to do it through curse-marks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ROHAN

ROHAN

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
23,854
Kin
95💸
Kumi
1,799💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Great theory :)

I would still like to see Orochimaru have some future role in the manga. It also makes you wonder why it is that young Orochimaru wears somewhat similar clothing to that of Indra and Ashura (the tomoes on the front). We have yet to see what Orochimaru's parents look like, and if one of them shares the same serpent-like traits. Perhaps his unique traits are a result of a transmigration as you suggested.

Maybe his entire family on which ever parent's side were part of this curse, as all snakes were cursed to walk the Earth without legs. It could also be said that his inability to achieve Sage Mode in his original body is a part of this curse, hence he had to do it through curse-marks.
Young Orochimaru's robes are similar to Kaguya's / Madara's robes as wsell
Well, I never noticed those and I think that they strengthen the connection of Orochimaru with Kaguya.
 
Top