The Databook Is Now Wrong About Susano'o

[Draphsin]

The reason why I see Ama and Tsuku is required for Susan is not just because of PDG's post, but also Kishimoto's intent of portraying Shintoist's and Japanese Mythological references.

Izanagi gave birth to "three noble children" {Amaterasu(Sun Goddess), Tsukyomi(Moon God), and Susanoo(Storm Summer)}, when he cleanse himself of his sins and pollutants in the underworld of Yomi. Tsukuyomi was born from Izanagi's right eye when he clean it, Amatarasu from the left eye, and Susanoo from the nose. If you look closely, the latter being Susanoo was born after Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. The three children were the results of the last step of purification of Izanagi when he exited Yomi(hell/underworld).

The chart here should sum up Izanagi's Purification Ceremony and the deities that were created out of it.

Spoiler

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And the link of the story should be here, more specially about the Purification of Izanagi.

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Kishimoto want to portrayed Susanoo, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi being adjacent together like the three children. How? He does it through the users using all three of those powers together. He made it the fact that Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are required for Susanoo due to Susanoo being born the latest after the two former. Madara not having Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to me is clearly out of Kishimoto's characteristic of portraying mythological and religious references he has been making. It seems he wanted the way the chart on the bottom right is being showed. That's the reason why I personally think Susanoo requires Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.

Oh whats this??

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Totsuka is also associated with susanoo, does that mean that all susanoos wield it too??

The japanese mythology references everything, coming to the conclusion that ama/tsuku are required because of this is a false assumption.

 

[Penguin]

All you need is 2 MS eyes that came from the same person too cast Susano'o.

 

[NarutoKage2]

The databook is very unreliable, and this is another example.

But two better ones would be:

1. The 3rd databook states that Madara puts on a mask and calls hinself Tobi
2. Same 'databoook' states Nagato 'awoke' the rinnegan. wtf?

After new evidence from the manga, the databook becomes obsolete and should be treated as such.

 

[Waltz]

The databook is very unreliable, and this is another example.

But two better ones would be:

1. The 3rd databook states that Madara puts on a mask and calls hinself Tobi
2. Same 'databoook' states Nagato 'awoke' the rinnegan. wtf?

After new evidence from the manga, the databook becomes obsolete and should be treated as such.

What are you saying?

If Kishimoto stated Tobi was Obito and Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan then chapters 559-606 would have been no surprise for the Millions of Naruto fans who were in suspense as regards "Who is Tobi" and "How did Nagato get the Rin'negan". It was all for the '

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' '

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' unless you prefer to believe that Masashi had no idea what he was doing.

 

[Draxus]

I agree. The databook only discribes Itachi's Susano'O. I think you have to master a different abilities on each eye in order to unlock it. That's why Obito said it was so rare because MS users like him and Shisei have the same ability in both

 

[NarutoKage2]

What are you saying?

If Kishimoto stated Tobi was Obito and Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan then chapters 559-606 would have been no surprise for the Millions of Naruto fans who were in suspense as regards "Who is Tobi" and "How did Nagato get the Rin'negan". It was all for the '

You must be registered for see links

' '

You must be registered for see links

' unless you prefer to believe that Masashi had no idea what he was doing.

You miss the point. Here on these forums, the databook is used as a reference as an unerring source of information. That kind of approach to it is nonsensical, as proven by the examples i quoted. If you're smart enough to qualify what is said under certain categories such a plot/future surprises etc then you should also be smart enough not to use everything it says as some sort of literal, divine truth.

Fact is, not everything said in the databook is true. The manga has disproven statements within it, for WHATEVER reason but they have been disproven. And many things in the databooks blatantly contradict what has been said in the manga. Take this thread for instance:

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If you read it, you'll see that Itachi's age stated in the databook cannot possibly be reconciled with all the evidence from the manga.
Don't take me wrong, there are only two instances where mistakes occur:
1. For keeping the suspense in a future plot/story development as you stated.
2. Kishi just plain forgets.(Don't really blame him with 600+ chapters)

But the members here who blindly cling to every word stated in any given databook need to wake up.

 

[Xlad]

Oh whats this??

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Totsuka is also associated with susanoo, does that mean that all susanoos wield it too??

The japanese mythology references everything, coming to the conclusion that ama/tsuku are required because of this is a false assumption.

Yes, but Totsuka is considered a separate weapon. Orochimaru tried to find the sword, only to find that Itachi was in posession of it, or at least that what it seems to be.

I don't know about you, but I am only leaning towards Ama/Tsuku being a requirement by a few percentage. It's not like I'm am trying to get anyone to change their point of perspective, considering that the reasonings in both sides are valid and true. It's the reason I want Kishi to cover subjects ASAP, as well as publishing the Fourth Databook. Not only does his need to update stats/info, but there are also a huge-ass bulk of new shit and subjects brought up that he needs to clarify as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to list those right now. :|

 

[Waltz]

You miss the point. Here on these forums, the databook is used as a reference as an unerring source of information. That kind of approach to it is nonsensical, as proven by the examples i quoted. If you're smart enough to qualify what is said under certain categories such a plot/future surprises etc then you should also be smart enough not to use everything it says as some sort of literal, divine truth.

Fact is, not everything said in the databook is true. The manga has disproven statements within it, for WHATEVER reason but they have been disproven. And many things in the databooks blatantly contradict what has been said in the manga. Take this thread for instance:

You must be registered for see links

If you read it, you'll see that Itachi's age stated in the databook cannot possibly be reconciled with all the evidence from the manga.
Don't take me wrong, there are only two instances where mistakes occur:
1. For keeping the suspense in a future plot/story development as you stated.
2. Kishi just plain forgets.(Don't really blame him with 600+ chapters)

But the members here who blindly cling to every word stated in any given databook need to wake up.

I don't wholesomely agree with it. I believe that the Databooks should be canon except for where it contradicts the original work (like saying an attack is hotter than the sun when it never burnt anything like the sun would). As for your thread, Remember Itachi Met Obito (the leader of akatsuki) long before (possibly 9-10 yrs old) so he could have joined Akatsuki and Foddered Oro before the Massacre and his promotion as Captain unknowingly to Hiruzen.

 

[6ari8]

I agree. Any Sharingan can cast genjutsu. Acquiring the MS would enhance that genjutsu to some level depending on the character. For example, Shisui's genjutsu became the best there is followed by Itachi's. Also, don't forget that those names are made by the users seeing how Kakashi made up a name for his technique Kamui so maybe it's those two jutsu's are different for every user.

 

[NarutoKage2]

I don't wholesomely agree with it. I believe that the Databooks should be canon except for where it contradicts the original work (like saying an attack is hotter than the sun when it never burnt anything like the sun would). As for your thread, Remember Itachi Met Obito (the leader of akatsuki) long before (possibly 9-10 yrs old) so he could have joined Akatsuki and Foddered Oro before the Massacre and his promotion as Captain unknowingly to Hiruzen.

Bolded^, umm what? Itachi met Obito on the eve of the massacre:

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Edit: So Itachi only met obito just before the massacre, he could'nt possibly have joined Akatsuki prior to meeting Tobi. Trust me, i've done quite a bit of digging up on this issue. The timelines using the manga and databook ages don't match.
Ot: the databook is not always correct, that's my stance on the issue.

 

[HadouKage]

Sasuke used Tsukuyomi at least twice, so he has it.

He may not have mastered it but he is skilled in genjutsu enough to get out of Itachi's, so there's that.

Madara's Tsukuyomi is probably the strongest. He also has it.

The databook disagrees with you

What are you saying?

If Kishimoto stated Tobi was Obito and Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan then chapters 559-606 would have been no surprise for the Millions of Naruto fans who were in suspense as regards "Who is Tobi" and "How did Nagato get the Rin'negan". It was all for the '

You must be registered for see links

' '

You must be registered for see links

' unless you prefer to believe that Masashi had no idea what he was doing.

So obviously, we can't go off by databook entries that are outdated

Like I said before, nothing has proven it wrong. Just cuz it came out a while ago, it doesn't automatically make it wrong.

He just pointed out that you need to master Sussano
What was it that Danzo said? :|

 

[Waltz]

Bolded^, umm what? Itachi met Obito on the eve of the massacre:

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Edit: So Itachi only met obito just before the massacre, he could'nt possibly have joined Akatsuki prior to meeting Tobi. Trust me, i've done quite a bit of digging up on this issue. The timelines using the manga and databook ages don't match.
Ot: the databook is not always correct, that's my stance on the issue.

Alright. It could be a Translation error in Hiruzen's statement as itachi did join anbu and become the Captain at 13. However

10
saru: he killed all of his brethren and stopped their revolt…\\ furthermore he held back the war tied together with that potential rebellion alone…\\
saru: he even entered into the akatsuki as a spy in order to protect the village\\ and left to me the duty to protect you in the village\\

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He could've been in akatsuki before the Acutal massacre. It all fits, really: Itachi enters the ANBU when he's 10-11 years old and the Oro incident occurs. He gets promoted at 13 then comes the mission to assassinate the Uchiha clan, so he looks for Obito and Massacre's the clan. He may had been working for Akatsuki as a spy.

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

my goodness

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[Dantee]

I'll believe it when we see someone without Amaterasu and Tysukiomi awaken Susanoo.

 

[HadouKage]

I'll believe it when we see someone without Amaterasu and Tysukiomi awaken Susanoo.

Uhhh Madara :|

 

[Draphsin]

I'll believe it when we see someone without Amaterasu and Tysukiomi awaken Susanoo.

You think madara has ama and tsukuyomi, even though we've been given multiple situations where tsukuyomi and ama would've been invaluable to his victory?

If he had tsukuyomi, then he has a 1-shot move on any senju, including hashi, why didnt he use it to secure his victory?

He also had a golden opportunity to trap A in tsukuyomi, which can kill him almost instantly. But instead he threw down a regular genjutsu, which allowed A to be rescued by the other kage...

There is no proof whatsoever that madara has tsukuyomi, or ama for that matter (He could've added ama to his mokuton to create a devastating 1-hit move). But during, and after the battle with the kage, we see not 1 sign of ama being used.

Just answer me this, If kishi really wanted ama/tsukuyomi to be required for susanoo, then why hasnt he shown madara using either of them? They're some of the strongest nin/genjutsu in existance...

From a storytelling standpoint it makes no sense

 

[NarutoKage2]

Alright. It could be a Translation error in Hiruzen's statement as itachi did join anbu and become the Captain at 13. However



He could've been in akatsuki before the Acutal massacre. It all fits, really: Itachi enters the ANBU when he's 10-11 years old and the Oro incident occurs. He gets promoted at 13 then comes the mission to assassinate the Uchiha clan, so he looks for Obito and Massacre's the clan. He may had been working for Akatsuki as a spy.

Even if it was a translation error, it still does'nt add up. Though i'll try to get the viz translations since they're the most accurate.

You gotta realize that Itachi can't be dumb enough to be a member of Akatsuki for 2 years and not realize its headed by the masked man tobi. When kisame joined, he also first met Tobi. Same should apply to Itachi as well.

 

[TrollingSage]

You think madara has ama and tsukuyomi, even though we've been given multiple situations where tsukuyomi and ama would've been invaluable to his victory?

If he had tsukuyomi, then he has a 1-shot move on any senju, including hashi, why didnt he use it to secure his victory?

He also had a golden opportunity to trap A in tsukuyomi, which can kill him almost instantly. But instead he threw down a regular genjutsu, which allowed A to be rescued by the other kage...

There is no proof whatsoever that madara has tsukuyomi, or ama for that matter (He could've added ama to his mokuton to create a devastating 1-hit move). But during, and after the battle with the kage, we see not 1 sign of ama being used.

Just answer me this, If kishi really wanted ama/tsukuyomi to be required for susanoo, then why hasnt he shown madara using either of them? They're some of the strongest nin/genjutsu in existance...

From a storytelling standpoint it makes no sense

First of all Madara was toying with the kages. He didnt even use perfect susano till he was forced to
Secondly if Hashirama has counters for amaterasu and tsukiyomi, he wouldnt use them on him.

 

[lawman62]

^ Quote Originally Posted by roncato View Post
Manga showed us that Madara has Amaterasu.
Scans or gtfo.

u made me lmfao ^_^

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[HadouKage]

First of all Madara was toying with the kages. He didnt even use perfect susano till he was forced to
Secondly if Hashirama has counters for amaterasu and tsukiyomi, he wouldnt use them on him.

How are you proving that Madara has both techs?