The answer to Danzo/Orochimaru/Hiruzen and others has been given

[Joker]

1. You asked me a hypothetical question, which you were trying to justify Danzo by... though you bound the limits i had compared to Danzo.. who had plenty of options?

2. I'm talking stuff in the manga, and stuff approved by Kishimoto.

Just as Madara has his own way of having Peace in the world... hes a villain in Naruto. Danzo ain't nun special, he is simply a mini Madara.

And did you not see the part where i stated "The guy had a moment of realization at the end of his life." He recalled upon what the difference between him and Hiruzen was. Hiruzen gave to the people, Danzo didn't.

The above scans apply to Hiruzen also, for being weakling and letting Danzo off the hook.

Also, those soldiers believed they had the right to do anything they want with others because they were the victors aka the powerful ones. Just like Danzo believed he had the right to walk all over people like Kabuto's mom because he was from konoha or because he was strong.

Point ain't blank, when your point is being denied and slapped around.. come on bro.

Hell I might as well defend Orochimaru now.

I'm not going to continue, you don't seem to be comprehending my point, so i'll just call it even.

 

[startup97]

I wonder what Lord Shodai would have done?

 

[KingHashirama]

I'm not going to continue, you don't seem to be comprehending my point, so i'll just call it even.

Only problem is I do comprehend your point, and hence why i'm trying to say no to it. I even gave you examples of other "villains" or people who are "considered villains" by using the logic that you applied to Danzo.

If i didn't understand your point, I would have like some other people went along with it like a sheep, instead of going deep into. But I don't think you get the point, that something you are trying to justify Danzo for only happened when he was about to be killed. Hence why I have stated "Your goals don't justify the means".

I wonder what Lord Shodai would have done?

Situation would have never happened. And then if it had happened, Danzo would have been kept in check, and orochimaru would have been killed on the spot.

 

[Exaar]

And going by Kishimoto's definition of what a ninja is and what a Shinobi is.. No Danzo does not fit the description. Naruto and Hashirama are the examples of what a shinobi is suppose to be in Naruto-verse (only 2 who provided the definition of what a shinobi is).

Yeah you do realize that hashirama stated he would kill even his own off-spring if it was a danger to the village?. So lets not portend hashirama is above killing anyone who harms the village be it friend or foe or even family.

So what makes you think Hashirama wouldn't of done the same as Danzo did if he was in the exact same position as hiruzen was.

 

[Vega]

I wonder what Lord Shodai would have done?

I feel if they posed a threat to the village then Hashirama would take them down only if he had to. He would probably try talking to them as he did with Madara. Since Danzo claimed he did everything for the village I imagine Hashirama would probably just scold him. IF Orochimaru tried destroying the village then Hashi would stop him.

 

[KingHashirama]

Yeah you do realize that hashirama stated he would kill even his own off-spring if it was a danger to the village?. So lets not portend hashirama is above killing anyone who harms the village be it friend or foe or even family.

So what makes you think Hashirama wouldn't of done the same as Danzo did if he was in the exact same position as hiruzen was.

-sigh-. Nitpicking quotes and applying them to a different situation where that quote was used on is just neglegence of understanding.

You want to talk about Hashirama. Hashirama never would've let the Uchiha get mistreated in the first place. Do you know why? Because each single shinobi represented to him as a part of his own body. Hence why Orochimaru and Danzo would've been long gone.

And you are trying to justify danzo, while he was plotting to take down the Hokage with Hanzo. And then with Orochimaru. And before planned the uchiha extermination with Obito.

Yea please don't compare Hashirama to Danzo..

 

[-Spoiler-]

Question has already been answered, however, he purposed another choice can't be made. Which I responded to with the statement you quoted.

In life there is always multiple choices, the thing is if you are able to see them or not. I simply stated both of the choices are foolish, and ill go with another answer.

Though you claim i dodged his question, i suppose you are in the belief Danzo had 2 choices right?

There wasn't really any other options, a diplomatic solution as Hiruzen suggest was doubtful has the Uchihas had already made up their minds, from my point of view the only other options were to rally up the ones that were plotting against the Hokage and imprison them which would have only bread more hate or use the information provide by Itachi against them to ambush them when they strike.

 

[KingHashirama]

There wasn't really any other options, a diplomatic solution as Hiruzen suggest was doubtful has the Uchihas had already made up their minds, from my point of view the only other options were to rally up the ones that were plotting against the Hokage and imprison them which would have only bread more hate or use the information provide by Itachi against them to ambush them when they strike.

False, why do you claim to the "war" crap, when Danzo made it clear. "War" had nothing to do with him killing the Uchiha. "whether a war occurs or not".. just saying.

And diplomatic solution was never tried. Unless you can show me. Because as i recall they were killed before Hiruzen went to talk to them.

False, they wanted a revolution. Corrupt governments can only be changed through revolutions. #RealFacts.


The whole show is about understanding..the misunderstanding of the elders caused them to do what they did. Ever wonder why we haven't heard the story from the Uchiha point of view yet? lol.


Itachi was literally forced to kill them, it wasn't his "choice" as some make it out to seem so. Plus, Obito was the main reason Itachi went through with it, not because of Danzo.

 

[-Spoiler-]

False, why do you claim to the "war" crap, when Danzo made it clear. "War" had nothing to do with him killing the Uchiha. "whether a war occurs or not".. just saying.

And diplomatic solution was never tried. Unless you can show me. Because as i recall they were killed before Hiruzen went to talk to them.

False, they wanted a revolution. Corrupt governments can only be changed through revolutions. #RealFacts.

What the hell? so all of the loyal shinobi of the leaf was just going stand back and watch the Uchihas seize power? you keep going around every question even now you haven't suggest one other way the situation could have been dealt with.
dude get off you high horse you know what would happen if the coup had went through.

 

[Exaar]

-sigh-. Nitpicking quotes and applying them to a different situation where that quote was used on is just neglegence of understanding.

You want to talk about Hashirama. Hashirama never would've let the Uchiha get mistreated in the first place. Do you know why? Because each single shinobi represented to him as a part of his own body. Hence why Orochimaru and Danzo would've been long gone.

I'm not Nitpicking, I was simply saying what Hashirama himself stated. IT was clearly stated by that hashirama will take down Anyone who threatened the leaf.
Village in Danger, Hashirama will deal with the threat the exact same way he dealt with Madara, Simple as that really.

Also I'm not talking about if he would let the uchiha get mistreated or not. I'm talking about putting him in the exact same situation as Hiruzen.

And you are trying to justify danzo, while he was plotting to take down the Hokage with Hanzo. And then with Orochimaru. And before planned the uchiha extermination with Obito.

Yea please don't compare Hashirama to Danzo..

Where was it stated that Danzo was plotting to take down Hiruzen with Hanzo? I must of missed that part.

 

[KingHashirama]

I'm not Nitpicking, I was simply saying what Hashirama himself stated. IT was clearly stated by that hashirama will take down Anyone who threatened the leaf.
Village in Danger, Hashirama will deal with the threat the exact same way he dealt with Madara, Simple as that really.

Also I'm not talking about if he would let the uchiha get mistreated or not. I'm talking about putting him in the exact same situation as Hiruzen.

Where was it stated that Danzo was plotting to take down Hiruzen with Hanzo? I must of missed that part.

Yea anyone who threatened the village. However, Uchiha never did that. As I said mate, putting to different things and saying they are the same does not make them the same.

In fact Danzo would've been long gone, since he was attacking Hashirama's body parts which are the people of the village. Same with Orochimaru. And Hashirama would have granted Uchiha political power, something elders didn't want to do.

And yea you missed out on that part:

Spoiler

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What the hell? so all of the loyal shinobi of the leaf was just going stand back and watch the Uchihas seize power? you keep going around every question even now you haven't suggest one other way the situation could have been dealt with.
dude get off you high horse you know what would happen if the coup had went through.

Tell me where Uchiha wanted to dictate by themselves?
I just gave you multiple choices the scenario could have been dealt with.

1. Get rid of Danzo, the guy who created the mess

2. Talk to the uchiha, hold a all out conference and discuss

3. Stop hogging the power, and pass it on to the younger shinobi

4. Review your own people before labeling others "traitors" of the village

Yea I know what would have happened, Uchiha would have told the truth. And Danzo's rise to power would've been stopped forever.

 

[MinaButt]

1. I would pick neither. Nor will i ever be put into that situation. Due to the simple fact i understand people, and don't ally myself with traitors and enemies of the country to bring down a group of my country. And if a specific group had a problem with politics of the country, i would let them take part in it. Because it was us who put them out of it in the first place. #CommonSense

2. Not even talking about the clan. He is the one who endorsed Orochimaru's kidnappings and experiments on konoha citizens and kids. And then we have the threatening of other innocent people who went away from war.

If you ain't got the power to make a change yourself, don't bother with politics and war. Danzo should've learned that lesson. HE WANTED TO PROTECT KONOHA THROUGHOUT HIS WHOLE FREAKING LIFE?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME YO?? The same old geezer who was chilling in his basement while the Hokage and others were getting pawned. AINT NO PROTECTING THE VILLAGE.

The same geezer who allied with Hanzo so he Hanzo could help him become Hokage. AIN'T NO PROTECTING THE VILLAGe.

"Danzo's roots go deeper than it seems".. does not imply "black and white". It implies there is more to Danzo than meets the eyes. And guess what there was. The guy had a moment of realization at the end of his life.

It took him his whole freaking life to figure out what the truth was. And even then he wanted make that lame ass excuse of "i was darkness, while you were the light". Just like how Sasuke was kissing up to Itachi. rofl.

Ain't no point blank here buddy.


Also, you stated those in the scans above were selfish, but Danzo wasn't? Really? Because that guy above said he has the right since he won the battle, and 100 of his men had died in the battle.



Hashirama = Man who created the current Shinobi system, hence why he was the one got asked what "Shinobi" is. And then his life is suppose to be an ideal of what a shinobi is suppose to be.

Naruto = man who is representing the shinobi world, and represents what Kishimoto believes.

Their ways > Anyone elses.

Sacrificing others =/= sacrificing yourself.

You sound kinda childish.You make it sound like nothing will go wrong b\c you're a perfect leader. There will be times in life where you're put in a tough situation that you had close to no control over and you have to make tough decisions. Anything can happen and you can't just not do anything about it. You can't just make a 3rd option b\c that option doesn't always exist. Sometimes you only have 1 option that you have to make :eww:

 

[KingHashirama]

You sound kinda childish.You make it sound like nothing will go wrong b\c you're a perfect leader. There will be times in life where you're put in a tough situation that you had close to no control over and you have to make tough decisions. Anything can happen and you can't just not do anything about it. You can't just make a 3rd option b\c that option doesn't always exist. Sometimes you only have 1 option that you have to make :eww:

There is a difference between being childish, and knowing yourself. And 3rd option is always there you must simply look for it. And yes in some situations such as getting attacked by a nuke.. yea that is a different story. But we ain't talking about that. We are talking about handling a coup or a revolution, there is always multiple options.

Since you live in real life, you should already know this. If you are in favor of putting people down because they rise against corruption and to get power in politics.. then that is your choice. However, I am a firm believer of the Power of the people because my own country was found on that principle and by the action of a revolution and overthrow of the colonial government.

 

[Exaar]

Yea anyone who threatened the village. However, Uchiha never did that. As I said mate, putting to different things and saying they are the same does not make them the same.

In fact Danzo would've been long gone, since he was attacking Hashirama's body parts which are the people of the village. Same with Orochimaru. And Hashirama would have granted Uchiha political power, something elders didn't want to do.

Not only did they threaten the village but whole country and possibly could have started the 4th great shinobi war

Spoiler

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And yea you missed out on that part:

Spoiler

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Do you have the Viz of that Page?

But it wouldn't surprise me if it was true, I don't claim he is a good guy, he has his ******* moments.

 

[Out Of Ctrl]

Whilst its true Danzo had his own selfish goals, it doesn't change the fact that Danzo always regarded the safety of Konoha to be the utmost importance, regardless of the means.​

 

[KingHashirama]

Not only did they threaten the village but whole country and possibly could have started the 4th great shinobi war

Spoiler

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Do you have the Viz of that Page?

But it wouldn't surprise me if it was true, I don't claim he is a good guy, he has his ******* moments.

That is Obito, the man who allied himself with Danzo to kill the Uchiha. As if i'm taking their words. lol. And on top of that Danzo already stated they weren't being killed because of the fear of war.. but the fear of taking power.

And ask the Viz thread, they should have it. But its the same as far as i'm aware.

Whilst its true Danzo had his own selfish goals, it doesn't change the fact that Danzo always regarded the safety of Konoha to be the utmost importance, regardless of the means.​

No sadly no. He regarded "His kingdom's" safety, not the safety of the village shared by everyone. Big difference. That is called being selfish. and he let the village be attacked twice just so you know.

 

[Out Of Ctrl]

No sadly no. He regarded "His kingdom's" safety, not the safety of the village shared by everyone. Big difference. That is called being selfish. and he let the village be attacked twice just so you know.

Yet his last dying

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was trying to kill Obito, a threat to Konoha.

@Bold And that is why I've stated him to be selfish, he was merely taking advantage of the situation in order to become Hokage as he's always wanted to be

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but the intention of protecting Konoha was always there.


Say what you will but Danzo was a hero in the

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.​

 

[KingHashirama]

Yet his last dying

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was trying to kill Obito, a threat to Konoha.

@Bold And that is why I've stated him to be selfish, he was merely taking advantage of the situation in order to become Hokage as he's always wanted to be

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but the intention of protecting Konoha was always there.


Say what you will but Danzo was a hero in the

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.​

1. Madara calls himself a savior, ain't no savior to me. Danzo can call himself whatever the hell he wants.. ain't no hero to me. Freaking terrorized and ruined lives.

2. No no no, his intention was to protect HIS village, the village that would be under HIS control. Not Konoha, not the village that was founded for peace.. but Konoha that Danzo prefered. Big difference buddy.

3. Yea just before that was he not the one with flashbacks? rofl.

 

[Conspirator.]

Danzo was a thug who brainwashed kids, worked with Orochimaru and Obito for his own selfish purposes, and planned the demise of the uchiha just to get his hands on some sharingans.(to boost his strength) If Hashirama was the hokage, I doubt Danzo would be able to get away with it.(Tobirama wasn't like Danzo, that's a big misconception I have seen) The bottom line is that Hiruzen was simply a yes man who couldn't stand up to Danzo. Great thread btw!

 

[Strawberry]

what the hellll