The answer to Danzo/Orochimaru/Hiruzen and others has been given

[KingHashirama]

I made a similar thread this morning, but i can't find i anymore, since i had to go right after i made it. But i was trying to get a discussion out of it.


See characters and even real life people, try to justify the killing and misabuse of innocent people. And there are some people who even forgive them and simply go with the excuse " This is reality" , "Others are doing it so can we". This is the trend even in our daily lives.


However, in Naruto people like Danzo and Orochimaru were forgiven or not punished by the 3rd Hokage. And the fans of such characters try to justify these actions for some reason (especially danzo). I have no clue why though. But apparently all the thing Danzo did is "reality" or makes him a more "real" person. :yeah:

So I have been reading this new manga, and I have finally come across an answer from a character to such things. This is gonna be a long read of the scans, but i think you guys will like it.


The scenario:

Spoiler

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The answer:

Spoiler

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Now some of the fans might try to justify Danzo or others some way, but try to say "the situation isn't the same".. Yea bet it isn't when you are raising a clan just for your use.




Is he Naive? Or is he being real and a man to stand by firm believes?

 

[Flawž]

Danzo and Oro are good men.

 

[Joker]

I've never tried to justify Orochimaru's reasons, he's evil, I get it, I like it. Danzo isn't B&W, which is what Kishimoto himself said, he's the personification of a Shinobi, point blank.

 

[The Necromancer]

I've never tried to justify Orochimaru's reasons, he's evil, I get it, I like it. Danzo isn't B&W, which is what Kishimoto himself said, he's the personification of a Shinobi, point blank.

That about sums that up.

 

[~Sky~]

Danzo = "Shinobi being nothing but tools" idealism.

Orochimaru is plain evil.

Hiruzen = Will of Fire

 

[-Spoiler-]

I've never tried to justify Orochimaru's reasons, he's evil, I get it, I like it. Danzo isn't B&W, which is what Kishimoto himself said, he's the personification of a Shinobi, point blank.

This right here.

 

[KingHashirama]

Danzo and Oro are good men.

Si, and Senju are evil evil men.

I've never tried to justify Orochimaru's reasons, he's evil, I get it, I like it. Danzo isn't B&W, which is what Kishimoto himself said, he's the personification of a Shinobi, point blank.

I would like where Kishimoto said that. And as for the "B&W".. yea you can't be both. Your goals don't justify your means. Doesn't matter a sh*ts worth is Danzo was doing it for the village or whatever the hell he was doing it for.

There were people and ninja out there putting their god damn life on the line, while this old freaking geezer was drinking coffee in his basement, cause he got hurt that Hiruzen became Hokage.

#FakeNinja

And going by Kishimoto's definition of what a ninja is and what a Shinobi is.. No Danzo does not fit the description. Naruto and Hashirama are the examples of what a shinobi is suppose to be in Naruto-verse (only 2 who provided the definition of what a shinobi is).

 

[Joker]

I would like where Kishimoto said that. And as for the "B&W".. yea you can't be both. Your goals don't justify your means. Doesn't matter a sh*ts worth is Danzo was doing it for the village or whatever the hell he was doing it for.

There were people and ninja out there putting their god damn life on the line, while this old freaking geezer was drinking coffee in his basement, cause he got hurt that Hiruzen became Hokage.

#FakeNinja

And going by Kishimoto's definition of what a ninja is and what a Shinobi is.. No Danzo does not fit the description. Naruto and Hashirama are the examples of what a shinobi is suppose to be in Naruto-verse (only 2 who provided the definition of what a shinobi is).

It looks like you're being condescending, now tell me, if you ONLY had two options, to kill a clan to save thousands of people, or to let that clan live, so thousands may die..? Danzo picked the extermination of the Uchiha clan so he could protect Konoha, what you showed in the OP is just people doing it out of greed, Danzo GENUINELY wanted to protect Konoha, he thought that being Hokage would help him further that notion.
Going by what Kishimoto said, "Danzo's roots go deeper than it seems," something along that line, point blank, King.

 

[MinaButt]

Si, and Senju are evil evil men.




I would like where Kishimoto said that. And as for the "B&W".. yea you can't be both. Your goals don't justify your means. Doesn't matter a sh*ts worth is Danzo was doing it for the village or whatever the hell he was doing it for.

There were people and ninja out there putting their god damn life on the line, while this old freaking geezer was drinking coffee in his basement, cause he got hurt that Hiruzen became Hokage.

#FakeNinja

And going by Kishimoto's definition of what a ninja is and what a Shinobi is.. No Danzo does not fit the description. Naruto and Hashirama are the examples of what a shinobi is suppose to be in Naruto-verse (only 2 who provided the definition of what a shinobi is).

~All subjective. Shinobi aren't all rainbows and flowers. They kill, lie, steal etc all for the sake of their village(or experiments like oro) and they all have their own sense of justice.~

 

[The Necromancer]

It looks like you're being condescending, now tell me, if you ONLY had two options, to kill a clan to save thousands of people, or to let that clan live, so thousands may die..? Danzo picked the extermination of the Uchiha clan so he could protect Konoha, what you showed in the OP is just people doing it out of greed, Danzo GENUINELY wanted to protect Konoha, he thought that being Hokage would help him further that notion.
Going by what Kishimoto said, "Danzo's roots go deeper than it seems," something along that line, point blank, King.

Exactly. A shinobi is also one who works in the shadows. Unsung heroes and warriors. What Danzo did was no more evil than what Obito, Madara, and Nagato did, which in the end is working toward a peaceful world without war or turmoil.

 

[Bronze]

No such thing as definition of ''Shinobi''. Jiraiya, Naruto and Hashirama have their opinion of Shinobi. Orochimaru's definition is the one who uses Jutsu. Danzo is the one who sacrifices.

Danzo is evil with for his idealism. Orochimaru is just evil due to his parent's death.

 

[Joker]

Exactly. A shinobi is also one who works in the shadows. Unsung heroes and warriors. What Danzo did was no more evil than what Obito, Madara, and Nagato did, which in the end is working toward a peaceful world without war or turmoil.

I know, Danzo is a controversial character, it irks me when people try to label him without analyzing his actions and intentions (not saying King is, but still)

No such thing as definition of ''Shinobi''. Jiraiya, Naruto and Hashirama have their opinion of Shinobi. Orochimaru's definition is the one who uses Jutsu. Danzo is the one who sacrifices.

Danzo is evil with for his idealism. Orochimaru is just evil due to his parent's death.

Not sure about the Orochimaru part, wasn't that just Jiraiya's speculation..?

 

[KingHashirama]

It looks like you're being condescending, now tell me, if you ONLY had two options, to kill a clan to save thousands of people, or to let that clan live, so thousands may die..? Danzo picked the extermination of the Uchiha clan so he could protect Konoha, what you showed in the OP is just people doing it out of greed, Danzo GENUINELY wanted to protect Konoha, he thought that being Hokage would help him further that notion.
Going by what Kishimoto said, "Danzo's roots go deeper than it seems," something along that line, point blank, King.

1. I would pick neither. Nor will i ever be put into that situation. Due to the simple fact i understand people, and don't ally myself with traitors and enemies of the country to bring down a group of my country. And if a specific group had a problem with politics of the country, i would let them take part in it. Because it was us who put them out of it in the first place. #CommonSense

2. Not even talking about the clan. He is the one who endorsed Orochimaru's kidnappings and experiments on konoha citizens and kids. And then we have the threatening of other innocent people who went away from war.

If you ain't got the power to make a change yourself, don't bother with politics and war. Danzo should've learned that lesson. HE WANTED TO PROTECT KONOHA THROUGHOUT HIS WHOLE FREAKING LIFE?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME YO?? The same old geezer who was chilling in his basement while the Hokage and others were getting pawned. AINT NO PROTECTING THE VILLAGE.

The same geezer who allied with Hanzo so he Hanzo could help him become Hokage. AIN'T NO PROTECTING THE VILLAGe.

"Danzo's roots go deeper than it seems".. does not imply "black and white". It implies there is more to Danzo than meets the eyes. And guess what there was. The guy had a moment of realization at the end of his life.

It took him his whole freaking life to figure out what the truth was. And even then he wanted make that lame ass excuse of "i was darkness, while you were the light". Just like how Sasuke was kissing up to Itachi. rofl.

Ain't no point blank here buddy.


Also, you stated those in the scans above were selfish, but Danzo wasn't? Really? Because that guy above said he has the right since he won the battle, and 100 of his men had died in the battle.

No such thing as definition of ''Shinobi''. Jiraiya, Naruto and Hashirama have their opinion of Shinobi. Orochimaru's definition is the one who uses Jutsu. Danzo is the one who sacrifices.

Danzo is evil with for his idealism. Orochimaru is just evil due to his parent's death.

Hashirama = Man who created the current Shinobi system, hence why he was the one got asked what "Shinobi" is. And then his life is suppose to be an ideal of what a shinobi is suppose to be.

Naruto = man who is representing the shinobi world, and represents what Kishimoto believes.

Their ways > Anyone elses.

Sacrificing others =/= sacrificing yourself.

 

[Bronze]

I know, Danzo is a controversial character, it irks me when people try to label him without analyzing his actions and intentions (not saying King is, but still)

Not sure about the Orochimaru part, wasn't that just Jiraiya's speculation..?

Jiraiya was his best friend, so he would know. Besides his parents death, he didn't become hokage which can be the other reason why he became evil.

 

[Joker]

1. I would pick neither. Nor will i ever be put into that situation. Due to the simple fact i understand people, and don't ally myself with traitors and enemies of the country to bring down a group of my country. And if a specific group had a problem with politics of the country, i would let them take part in it. Because it was us who put them out of it in the first place. #CommonSense

2. Not even talking about the clan. He is the one who endorsed Orochimaru's kidnappings and experiments on konoha citizens and kids. And then we have the threatening of other innocent people who went away from war.

If you ain't got the power to make a change yourself, don't bother with politics and war. Danzo should've learned that lesson. HE WANTED TO PROTECT KONOHA THROUGHOUT HIS WHOLE FREAKING LIFE?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME YO?? The same old geezer who was chilling in his basement while the Hokage and others were getting pawned. AINT NO PROTECTING THE VILLAGE.

The same geezer who allied with Hanzo so he Hanzo could help him become Hokage. AIN'T NO PROTECTING THE VILLAGe.

"Danzo's roots go deeper than it seems".. does not imply "black and white". It implies there is more to Danzo than meets the eyes. And guess what there was. The guy had a moment of realization at the end of his life.

It took him his whole freaking life to figure out what the truth was. And even then he wanted make that lame ass excuse of "i was darkness, while you were the light". Just like how Sasuke was kissing up to Itachi. rofl.

Ain't no point blank here buddy.




Hashirama = Man who created the current Shinobi system, hence why he was the one got asked what "Shinobi" is. And then his life is suppose to be an ideal of what a shinobi is suppose to be.

Naruto = man who is representing the shinobi world, and represents what Kishimoto believes.

Their ways > Anyone elses.

Sacrificing others =/= sacrificing yourself.

1) Did I not say you were given two options, there is no compromise, plus it's hypothetical.
2) Are you talking about the filler..?
-------
He had his own ideas of protecting the village, in his eyes, sacrifices have to be made so when he could become the Hokage, he could protect it to how he sees fit. You denying that he had intentions to protect the village is laughable, did you not see in his fight with Sasuke, how he killed himself in an ATTEMPT to kill them to PROTECT the village...?

There is a point blank, I made the point, now time to leave it at blank.

 

[KingHashirama]

1) Did I not say you were given two options, there is no compromise, plus it's hypothetical.
2) Are you talking about the filler..?
-------
He had his own ideas of protecting the village, in his eyes, sacrifices have to be made so when he could become the Hokage, he could protect it to how he sees fit. You denying that he had intentions to protect the village is laughable, did you not see in his fight with Sasuke, how he killed himself in an ATTEMPT to kill them to PROTECT the village...?

There is a point blank, I made the point, now time to leave it at blank.

1. You asked me a hypothetical question, which you were trying to justify Danzo by... though you bound the limits i had compared to Danzo.. who had plenty of options?

2. I'm talking stuff in the manga, and stuff approved by Kishimoto.

Just as Madara has his own way of having Peace in the world... hes a villain in Naruto. Danzo ain't nun special, he is simply a mini Madara.

And did you not see the part where i stated "The guy had a moment of realization at the end of his life." He recalled upon what the difference between him and Hiruzen was. Hiruzen gave to the people, Danzo didn't.

The above scans apply to Hiruzen also, for being weakling and letting Danzo off the hook.

Also, those soldiers believed they had the right to do anything they want with others because they were the victors aka the powerful ones. Just like Danzo believed he had the right to walk all over people like Kabuto's mom because he was from konoha or because he was strong.

Point ain't blank, when your point is being denied and slapped around.. come on bro.

Hell I might as well defend Orochimaru now.

 

[startup97]

Hiruzen IMO should have killed Danzo.

 

[KingHashirama]

Hiruzen IMO should have killed Danzo.

Well not really kill , but atleast punish him.

 

[-Spoiler-]

1. You asked me a hypothetical question, which you were trying to justify Danzo by... though you bound the limits i had compared to Danzo.. who had plenty of options?

TBH you're actually dodging the question he said giving the circumstances how would have dealt with the situation.

 

[KingHashirama]

TBH you're actually dodging the question he said giving the circumstances how would have dealt with the situation.

Question has already been answered, however, he purposed another choice can't be made. Which I responded to with the statement you quoted.

In life there is always multiple choices, the thing is if you are able to see them or not. I simply stated both of the choices are foolish, and ill go with another answer.

Though you claim i dodged his question, i suppose you are in the belief Danzo had 2 choices right?