The 5 strongest abilities and prime hiruzen has none of them

[Char Aznable]

Even the 4th most recent databook confirmed Hiruzen knowing all leaf jutsu's. The only fail here are the people who denying it still.

Databook also says that Itachi's Yata Mirror can defend from any attack, and that Kakashi's Raikiri can pierce anything. So...which is it?

Temari blowing away the universe is an oldie but a goodie from the databooks as well.

 

[Jokule67]

Regardless, i would like to see what it is i'm supposed to be ignoring in both of these databooks because nothing stated in the manga ruins hiruzen's hype.



None of these scans ruins hiruzen's hype.

All this proves in that Hashirama shared the title with Hiruzen and that Hashirama at the point he died > Hiruzen at the point he died.


@ Bold in the 2nd quote and this scan.

Kabuto's statement wasn't putting hashirama on the sages level nor claiming people thought that.

Kabuto was simply stating that like the Rikiudo Sennin, People didn't believe the tales about hashirama's strength, Thus they became fairytales, Just like the sages strength was a fairy tale.

Viz scan here

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This proves there were legends depicting hashirama's power, These came from people during his Era and Those people were alive during Hiruzen's reins and his title of God/Strongest hokage.

Still, Hashirama is the new God of Shinobi. Hiruzen has been dethroned by kishi himself. Time to just accept it. Yes Hiruzen was strong, however did not compare to First Hokage or Madara.

 

[Jokule67]

Nagato and Obito were given transmigrant power, Obito had Hashi cells and Nagato had Madara's Rinnegan, without the free hand outs they're both fodder.

And even with Rinnegan Nagato struggle against a weakened Kurama while Hiruzen was strong enough to fight a full Kurama.

Nagato was already weakened and fighting through a corpse. Hiruzen drive the kyuubi out with all of Konoha at his side. Two different situations.

Who cares about free this and free that. Its what they use. Im pretty sure Prime Hiruzen can stand up to them and even beat them.

 

[Aznkidd]

I didn't imply anything about the Kumo Jonin. That was LoZelda101 .



Madara knew the seals without anyone telling him. Itachi had to use Izanami (the asspull, beat Kabuto jutsu) and then get Kabuto to tell him and make Kabuto undo the Edo Tensei himself. If Hiruzen knew the seals, he would've undid Edo Tensei himself. Which would've been preferable than his failed "Neutralizer" no jutsu. :sdo:


Odd. It was stated multiple times in Part 1 that the only people who could do Rasengan were Minato and Jiraiya, nothing about Hiruzen. Same thing with Chidori/Raikiri, as Kakashi said he never taught it to anyone else. Hiruzen never demonstrated FTG, even in the presence of Minato and Tobirama during the War. Tobirama even comments that Minato is better at the jutsu than him. Manga states the only people who can do Edo Tensei were Oro, Tobirama and Kabuto (who learned by studying Oro's notes). Is Hiruzen's body compatible with the 8 Gates? Kakashi could only do at most 2, and Guy said not everyone can do them. Chakra Enhanced Strength is something both Hashi and Tsuna can do, but never seen Hiruzen do it.

The list goes on and on.


Hiruzen and his Fodder Fans Fail.

So all you did is giving me another list of fails ? :lol

Madara knew the seals, not because no one telling him, but the moment he got ressed and the moment he explained the purpose of edo tensei, he already knew it before.
fail number 1 (new list :lol start from number 1 :lol)

Itachi case, i already tell you about it, you just repeat it again :lol
fail number 2

Hiruzen undo his edo tensei for what ? What kind of threat other than saving the alliance with Orochimaru help ? Madara did not even release the seal until he has to, so it wasnt even needed as no one control him at all and Orochimaru did not even bother to try :lol
So your point is kinda invalid here, but if you mean to cancel the edo tensei from OroVSHiruzen then it was already explained that only caster and zoombie can cancel it, not the others.....
fail number 3

You keep saying why Hiruzen not use this, not use that when you completely forgot that Ninja fighting with what they feel best. Hiruzen already has his own unique style so Kishimoto is not an idiot to not focus on that aspect, he even seperate the meaning of Hiruzen knowlegde by making him analyze tsb fluid and then keep his hype by counter all elements jutsu. Kishi word is always > you, so know your place :lol
fail number 4

You always want to downgrade Hiruzen because of his "hype", but he is not the main character to show off everything, includes 2000+ ninja techs :lol . Stop being childish, no one is gonna draw for your a$$ hundred of pages of ninja tech for nothin, only 1 simple statement is more than enough, Hiruzen gets multiple statements through out manga about his abilities, that is more than enough :lol

Not even Sasuke nor Madara has showing all path, doesnt mean they are not capable of doing it (maybe not Sasuke case) :lol

 

[Shazneel Dragneel]

Comparing Prime Hiruzen to shinobi with the Sage's power, I wonder why :tea:

People are wanking Hiruzen.

 

[LoZelda101]

Nagato and Obito were given transmigrant power, Obito had Hashi cells and Nagato had Madara's Rinnegan, without the free hand outs they're both fodder.

And even with Rinnegan Nagato struggle against a weakened Kurama while Hiruzen was strong enough to fight a full Kurama.

1. I don't understand why people complain about handouts, it's like living in L.A and complaining about the traffic. seriously, you knew what you were getting into this far into the manga, it should've been obvious the moment sasuke got curse seal and naruto used kurama as a crutch in part 1.

2. as for the "transmigrant" stuff, you take at face value way too much. by your logic danzo should be tiers above non transmigrant ninjas just because he has hashi's cells, yet he easily got negged by sasuke for just simply out lasting him and using some weak genjutsu that pales in comparision to itachi's (who is also a non transmigrant). nagato while he did possess rinnegan, he was not able to use it to it's full potential, infact he'd only got as far as he did because of his larger reserves from the uzumaki clan.

 

[Exaar]

Databook also says that Itachi's Yata Mirror can defend from any attack, and that Kakashi's Raikiri can pierce anything. So...which is it?

Temari blowing away the universe is an oldie but a goodie from the databooks as well.

There a difference between hyperbole statements and an definitive statement.

Even if you disagree with the 4 th databook, it has dirctly been stated in the manga it's self.

Still, Hashirama is the new God of Shinobi. Hiruzen has been dethroned by kishi himself. Time to just accept it. Yes Hiruzen was strong, however did not compare to First Hokage or Madara.

Stupid argument.

hashirama was before Hiruzen time, So technically hiruzen was the new God of shinobi, Also Simply because hashirama has the title also, Doesn't mean Hiruzen is now stripped of said title.

Kishi doesn't have to contentiously need to call hiruzen god of shinobi because people who read the aren't smart enough to come to such a conclusion on their own, even though nothing being refuted nor kishi stating his mistakes on the matter in interviews and such.

 

[Jokule67]

There a difference between hyperbole statements and an definitive statement.

Even if you disagree with the 4 th databook, it has dirctly been stated in the manga it's self.



Stupid argument.

hashirama was before Hiruzen time, So technically hiruzen was the new God of shinobi, Also Simply because hashirama has the title also, Doesn't mean Hiruzen is now stripped of said title.

Kishi doesn't have to contentiously need to call hiruzen god of shinobi because people who read the aren't smart enough to come to such a conclusion on their own, even though nothing being refuted nor kishi stating his mistakes on the matter in interviews and such.

Your defense of Hiruzen is stupid bro. You a fool if you think any version of Hiruzen beats Hashirama when the manga itself states no one could and that only Hashirama could defeat Madara.

 

[Aznkidd]

Your defense of Hiruzen is stupid bro. You a fool if you think any version of Hiruzen beats Hashirama when the manga itself states no one could and that only Hashirama could defeat Madara.

four of them got ressed, 2 being ressed with lack of power, 1 being ressed with better version and 1 being ressed with his old age that was said can not create more than 3 clones because he was too old.
And the topic is about to downgrade PRIME version of Hiruzen, so ofc we are going to defend him.

not to mention old people suffer from various sickness suck as low stamina, low memories....

 

[Jokule67]

four of them got ressed, 2 being ressed with lack of power, 1 being ressed with better version and 1 being ressed with his old age that was said can not create more than 3 clones because he was too old.
And the topic is about to downgrade PRIME version of Hiruzen, so ofc we are going to defend him.

not to mention old people suffer from various sickness suck as low stamina, low memories....

You are not just defending him you are overhyping him and giving techniques he doesnt have like other Hokages signature techniquee that you know he dont possess. It just makes yall look bad.

We all know Hiruzen was extremely strong. He was the 3rd Hokage.

However no ninja ever compared to Hashiramas power or Madara whom only Hashirama can defeat.

 

[Aznkidd]

You are not just defending him you are overhyping him and giving techniques he doesnt have like other Hokages signature techniquee that you know he dont possess. It just makes yall look bad.

We all know Hiruzen was extremely strong. He was the 3rd Hokage.

However no ninja ever compared to Hashiramas power or Madara whom only Hashirama can defeat.

You have not seen his PRIME, so dont even try to downgrade him like that. There is a reason when he was young, the world was at peace and everyone hailed him as god :lol
Just because when he got old and his crippled friend seized the opportunity and crawled back from dark hole that Hiruzen put him in his place..... and stirred up chaos, doesnt mean he looks weak like that when he is young....

 

[Jokule67]

You have not seen his PRIME, so dont even try to downgrade him like that. There is a reason when he was young, the world was at peace and everyone hailed him as god :lol
Just because when he got old and his crippled friend seized the opportunity and crawled back from dark hole that Hiruzen put him in his place..... and stirred up chaos, doesnt mean he looks weak like that when he is young....

I dont need to see his prime and I didnt call him weak. Its manga fact that noone compares to thise two so stop trying to prove they do.

 

[Exaar]

Your defense of Hiruzen is stupid bro. You a fool if you think any version of Hiruzen beats Hashirama when the manga itself states no one could and that only Hashirama could defeat Madara.

My defense is stupid how?.
Because i'm following up on Both manga and databook statements which have never been contradicted?.

It was also stated by Muu himself that only Onoki could stop him, Guess Muu >>>> every living shinobi in the War arc Era huh?

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Hiruzen was someone who was acknowledged by both Hasirama and Tobirama, nuff said......uttahere:

 

[Jokule67]

My defense is stupid how?.
Because i'm following up on Both manga and databook statements which have never been contradicted?.

It was also stated by Muu himself that only Onoki could stop him, Guess Muu >>>> every living shinobi in the War arc Era huh?

Dude just give it up. Manga supports Hashi being stringer than Hiruzen. I already posted the recent scans.

 

[Exaar]

Manga supports Hashi being stringer than Hiruzen. I already posted the recent scans.

Your scans prove nothing as i said previously.

All the scans you posted prove is that, Hashirama shares the God of Shinobi title with Hiruzen and that Hashirama at time of death > Hiruzen at time of death.

You don't even understand the context of the very scans you post, Much less prove me wrong with them.

 

[Jokule67]

Your scans prove nothing as i said previously.

All the scans you posted prove is that, Hashirama shares the God of Shinobi title with Hiruzen and that Hashirama at time of death > Hiruzen at time of death.

You don't even understand the context of the very scans you post, Much less prove me wrong with them.

They are both hailed as "God of Shinobi".

Difference is one is said have power so great it is considered fairy tale and not real. The other power is more comparable to other kage and believable by the people.

You are defending this for no reason and you know it.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

Psh, prime hiruzens greatest feat is getting people to believe in prime hiruzen

 

[Exaar]

They are both hailed as "God of Shinobi".

Difference is one is said have power so great it is considered fairy tale and not real. The other power is more comparable to other kage and believable by the people.

First off, Where do you think the legend of hashirama's strength came from?. People in his Era? People that wittness the aftermath of his power? People that fought beside him or against him in the Senju vs uchiha war?

Iv'e already shown a very rough timeline for Hiruzen's hokage Reign, His Titles of God and strongest kage only came along a decade (give or take a fe years) after tobirama died which was mere years after hashirama died. People who started such legends, Fought along side him or against him (on the uchiha side) or even witnessed the aftermath of his battle with madara first hand. Unless they all died out in the 20years hiruzen was hokage or the 10 or so years he gained such hype a number of them were alive during hiruzen gaining such praise.

The other power is more comparable to other kage and believable by the people.

Hiruzen was only comparable to the other kage during his old and weakened state, Even then he was considered to be the strongest of the lot.
During his younger days it's pretty clear that no kage nor shinobi could compare due to him being hailed as a God of shinobi compared to other shinobi at the time. which included extremely powerful shinobi like, 3rd raikage, Hanzo, 3rd kazekage (hailed as the strongest kazekage), Young Onoki and such.

If hiruzen's strength was so believable, He wouldn't of been dubbed the god of his Era now would he.

You are defending this for no reason and you know it.

if i have reason or not, Doesn't make my points any less valid.

 

[salamander uchiha]

What is meant by Primer Hiruzen is Prime fodder. Although that would be incorrect since that tie would belong to nardo.