The 5 strongest abilities and prime hiruzen has none of them

[Jokule67]

1. He was Tobirama's student

2. Manga fact

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Just log off now before its too late bro. Those three Jounin were the only ones the FTG was passed down to. Tobirama was dead long before attenpting to teach that to anyone. Please stop you are annoying af

 

[Jokule67]

Maybe they had not seen his full power but they defiantly had seen the aftermath of such power which created VOTE or seen/heard the battle from afar with the bijuu dama's and such flying about.

The time Gap between Hashirama/Tobirama's death is most likely a few years at best due to hashirama actually knowing tsunade.



Hiruzen was 69 when he died in part 1 and during part 1 tsunade was 51. Hiruzen is only 18 years older than Tsunade and she looked about what 4/5ish during Hashirama's flash back of her. So lets say tsunade was 5, That makes hiruzen at least 23 while hashirama was alive.

Then maybe a few years later give or take tobirama died, Meaning hiruzen was atleast in his Mid/late 20's maybe early 30's when he became hokage.
Now Hiruzen retired and handed his title over when he was in his 50's i think between 51-53. Now that means at the most he was hokage for 20 odd years before Minato took over. Making his prime between Mid/late 20's and his early 50's

So i'd think it's safe to assume his Prime was between his early 30's to his Early/Mid 40's. Which isn't really that long after Both Hashirama's and Tobirama's death. So again, Unless everyone in the senju that fought along side him and All the uchiha that fought against him and the senju's died in that 20 Years i doubt it reached full fairytail status until many years later.

Now i'm not denying kabuto's statement but it depends on which generation his statement was targeted towards, He was only 24 in part 1, If he was talking about his gen (meaning the current gen the point in time the statement was made) his statement was entirely correct. it was a fairytail to the current living generation who has never witnessed his fight at all nor witnessed first hand the battle scars he left they're just told it in the history books and such.

Regardless, Hiruzen does not compare to Sage Mode Hashirama or Madara. He compared to every other behind those two.

 

[Meekz89]

and I'm to believe this "prime" hiruzen is the strongest? ok.



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If this hiruzen was so powerful, the konoha village would had never been invaded as much as it had during his reign (pre and post minato's death), even as far to kidnap hinata from the village and had the nerve to negotiate with hiruzen to take her father's head as payback for their failed crime, that is no fear. real fear is someone like madara, whose name was so powerful, the world united to fight against him despite not knowing whether or not madara was in his prime!

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it's obvious this "prime" hiruzen god, was retconned by kishi years ago. just some idea kishi came up with he probably forgot over a decade ago. he's not stronger than transmigrants. lol

Hiruzen has the last one that's a Konoha technique forbidden I may add

 

[Exaar]

Just log off now before its too late bro. Those three Jounin were the only ones the FTG was passed down to. Tobirama was dead long before attenpting to teach that to anyone. Please stop you are annoying af

Well it's not illogical to think that hiruzen learn't FTG. I mean he has all 5 elements and according to the 4th databook translations available hidden clan jutsu's aswell

He was Tobirama's student who had shown more talent than even he did. It's not impossible for him to have learn't it and helped minato to learn it.
There was no one else alive to teach minato it, Unless he lean't it completely on his own.

Regardless, Hiruzen does not compare to Sage Mode Hashirama or Madara. He compared to every other behind those two.

By feats he does not compare, because he was never shown, only a far weaker version which was Old hiruzen. by hype he was compared to hashirama and portrayed as being above him in both manga and 1st/2nd databooks.

 

[LoZelda101]

Hiruzen has the last one that's a Konoha technique forbidden I may add

is the 8 gates even considered a jutsu? even if it is, only dai and gai is known to able to achieve the last gate

 

[Jokule67]

Well it's not illogical to think that hiruzen learn't FTG. I mean he has all 5 elements and according to the 4th databook translations available hidden clan jutsu's aswell

He was Tobirama's student who had shown more talent than even he did. It's not impossible for him to have learn't it and helped minato to learn it.
There was no one else alive to teach minato it, Unless he lean't it completely on his own.



By feats he does not compare, because he was never shown, only a far weaker version which was Old hiruzen. by hype he was compared to hashirama and portrayed as being above him in both manga and 1st/2nd databooks.

Yet you completely ignore the 3rd 4th databooks putting Hashirama on top stating not many knew of his power. This completely ruins your arguement.

 

[Jokule67]

Hiruzen has the last one that's a Konoha technique forbidden I may add

Do you really believe Hiruzen knows the 8 gates? You all seriously overhype Hiruzen.

 

[Aznkidd]

so that's your logic. guy who is a jounin, so that must mean the guys who killed tobirama also happen to be on guy's level. if that were the case, why wasn't that god slayer nominated as their kage or atleast referenced? :lol

Not even close.

Hiruzen can't do FTG, doesn't know the seals for Edo Tensei (otherwise he would've cancelled the jutsu himself like Madara did), Rasengan, Raikiri/Chidori, Chakra Enhanced Strength, the 8 Gates, Gentle Fist jutsus that don't require Byakugan, Size Manipulation Jutsu, and Sage Modes (which aren't localized to Konoha).


Hiruzen is all hype and not facts.

you both sound butthurt about Prime Hiruzen awesomeness ?

You keeps yelling Tobirama was killed by 20 jounin when there is no evidents that he was being killed in that fight, just only precautious to promote Hiruzen to hokage and that 20 jounins have no background on them about their power.... so i just shoved at your mouth with Gai being Jounin mean Jounin level arent just fodders. Not to mention they are "master" bounty hunters, mean they are even more professional than normal ninja in term of kill and murder.
Even after all of this, there is no evident that Tobirama will die in that fight and he also fought with the gold and silver brothers (maybe in that fight too since they are also from Kumogakure).

Also Madara highly praised Tobirama for his power since his power was not at 100%.
Hiruzen knows edo tensei as it was inside Konoha and he knew it right away, whether he choose to cancel it or not is another story since he may not know that it can just be canceled like Madara did.

He just simply knows everything within Konoha, just lacking in KKG that prevent him from using it all :lol

 

[Exaar]

Yet you completely ignore the 3rd 4th databooks putting Hashirama on top stating not many knew of his power. This completely ruins your arguement.

Care to link said databooks? i haven't found a translated version of Hashirama's 4th Databook and i cannot remember the 3rd Databook saying anything about his strength.

 

[Char Aznable]

You keeps yelling Tobirama was killed by 20 jounin when there is no evidents that he was being killed in that fight, just only precautious to promote Hiruzen to hokage and that 20 jounins have no background on them about their power.... so i just shoved at your mouth with Gai being Jounin mean Jounin level arent just fodders.

Sentence Fragment.

@bold
Shizune, Konohamaru, Ebisu, Yamato, Kurenai, Asuma and Sakura are all Jonin and they're all fodder.

Not to mention they are "master" bounty hunters, mean they are even more professional than normal ninja in term of kill and murder.
Even after all of this, there is no evident that Tobirama will die in that fight and he also fought with the gold and silver brothers (maybe in that fight too since they are also from Kumogakure).

Tobirama clashed with Kinkaku and Ginkaku several times, according to Ay, Tsuna and the brothers themselves. They knew about his Edo Tensei jutsu, and nearly killed him and the 2nd Raikage during a peace/alliance summit. Tobirama meets his end against Kumo ninjas and the brothers take credit for it in the 4th Shinobi War.

Also Madara highly praised Tobirama for his power since his power was not at 100%.
Hiruzen knows edo tensei as it was inside Konoha and he knew it right away, whether he choose to cancel it or not is another story since he may not know that it can just be canceled like Madara did.

Hiruzen's inability to cancel Edo Tensei shows that he doesn't know every jutsu in Konoha. As Oro, Kabuto and Madara demonstrated, if you know the seals, you can keep and cancel the jutsu. Hiruzen didn't know them, and instead opted for the Reaper Death Seal to win a losing battle. #Fodderuzen

He just simply knows everything within Konoha, just lacking in KKG that prevent him from using it all :lol

Knows of, and being able to do every jutsu are completely different things.

 

[Jokule67]

Care to link said databooks? i haven't found a translated version of Hashirama's 4th Databook and i cannot remember the 3rd Databook saying anything about his strength.

Databooks just repeat what the manga says with added hyperbole.

Hashirama is the true God of Shinobi which power is so legendary it was thought to be on the level of Rikiudo Sennin.

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Despite the generation ALL the people agree noone is on Hashiramas Level. Including Hiruzen.

 

[Jokule67]

Sentence Fragment.

@bold
Shizune, Konohamaru, Ebisu, Yamato, Kurenai, Asuma and Sakura are all Jonin and they're all fodder.


Tobirama clashed with Kinkaku and Ginkaku several times, according to Ay, Tsuna and the brothers themselves. They knew about his Edo Tensei jutsu, and nearly killed him and the 2nd Raikage during a peace/alliance summit. Tobirama meets his end against Kumo ninjas and the brothers take credit for it in the 4th Shinobi War.


Hiruzen's inability to cancel Edo Tensei shows that he doesn't know every jutsu in Konoha. As Oro, Kabuto and Madara demonstrated, if you know the seals, you can keep and cancel the jutsu. Hiruzen didn't know them, and instead opted for the Reaper Death Seal to win a losing battle. #Fodderuzen

Knows of, and being able to do every jutsu are completely different things.

Only the user and the zombie can undue Edo Tensei. No one else can do it.

 

[Exaar]

Databooks just repeat what the manga says with added hyperbole.

Regardless, i would like to see what it is i'm supposed to be ignoring in both of these databooks because nothing stated in the manga ruins hiruzen's hype.

Hashirama is the true God of Shinobi which power is so legendary it was thought to be on the level of Rikiudo Sennin.

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None of these scans ruins hiruzen's hype.

All this proves in that Hashirama shared the title with Hiruzen and that Hashirama at the point he died > Hiruzen at the point he died.

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@ Bold in the 2nd quote and this scan.

Kabuto's statement wasn't putting hashirama on the sages level nor claiming people thought that.

Kabuto was simply stating that like the Rikiudo Sennin, People didn't believe the tales about hashirama's strength, Thus they became fairytales, Just like the sages strength was a fairy tale.

Viz scan here

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This proves there were legends depicting hashirama's power, These came from people during his Era and Those people were alive during Hiruzen's reins and his title of God/Strongest hokage.

 

[Char Aznable]

Only the user and the zombie can undue Edo Tensei. No one else can do it.

How do you explain an Edo Tensei being able to undo Edo Tensei and not someone else? It seems like an odd thing to give the resurrectee the ability to free themself from the jutsu. Madara said all you need to know is the seals to undo/redo the jutsu.

 

[Aznkidd]

Sentence Fragment.

@bold
Shizune, Konohamaru, Ebisu, Yamato, Kurenai, Asuma and Sakura are all Jonin and they're all fodder.


Tobirama clashed with Kinkaku and Ginkaku several times, according to Ay, Tsuna and the brothers themselves. They knew about his Edo Tensei jutsu, and nearly killed him and the 2nd Raikage during a peace/alliance summit. Tobirama meets his end against Kumo ninjas and the brothers take credit for it in the 4th Shinobi War.


Hiruzen's inability to cancel Edo Tensei shows that he doesn't know every jutsu in Konoha. As Oro, Kabuto and Madara demonstrated, if you know the seals, you can keep and cancel the jutsu. Hiruzen didn't know them, and instead opted for the Reaper Death Seal to win a losing battle. #Fodderuzen

Knows of, and being able to do every jutsu are completely different things.

You keep imply those Jounin are fodder when you have no idea who they are, at least 18 of them :lol
that is your first fail

Second, Cancel Edo Tensei is either the caster or the edo ninja can do it on them self. Even Itachi has to make Kabuto perform the seal :lol
fail number two

Third, manga fact > you :lol

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Hiruzen being able to use all the jutsu within Konoha is the concrede fact, nothin can change that. Whether he has stamina or having time to think to use what is better in combat when he has at least several hundred + 1000 genjutsu + 1000 jutsu that Kakashi copied...is another story.

so fail number three :lol

 

[SenseiSama]

Actually hiruzen was said as fact to be the strongest Kage of his time in prime.

Also Tobirama and Hashirama died in battle. Pretty sure a jounin(squad,assassin,bounty hunter) did it. You dont have to be all powerful to kill someone. There are ways.

Exactly, just because Tobirama died against 20 jonin doesn't mean he was weak, for all we know each of them were Akatsuki-tier opponents and he had no intel on them while they had full intel on him.

Thats because 1st Hokages power was hailed as Fairy Tale along with The Sage. It was rare to see it. Also Hiruzen was hokage long after The 1st died, giving him ample opportunity to build a solid reputation without the shadows of the 1st & 2nd over him

Very true, but the fact he was the only ninja of his generation and the later generations that was compared to the Senju bros is a testament to how strong he was. Before Naruto and Sasuke no one came close to being considered a shinobi god like Hiruzen.

Dont tell me that there are still people out there who think that Hiruzen is stronger than Hashirama, Tobirama & Minato???

Of course not, but in his prime he's the only ninja that comes close to the shinobi that were born with a portion of Hagoromo's chakra

lmao, i Negged your shitty response so you result to this. I never said 5 strongest "characters", I said 5 strongest abilities. :lol

i'll give your slow brain cell time to try to figure out what comes next :tea:

But the 5 strongest abilities are used by the 4 strongest characters which proves my point, Hiruzen is the only non-transmigrant that makes the top 5 list.

 

[SenseiSama]

lmao no. i'll even put nagato, obito, minato and MS itachi above hiruzen :lol

all 4 who fits into this 5 ability category.

Nagato and Obito were given transmigrant power, Obito had Hashi cells and Nagato had Madara's Rinnegan, without the free hand outs they're both fodder.

And even with Rinnegan Nagato struggle against a weakened Kurama while Hiruzen was strong enough to fight a full Kurama.

 

[Exaar]

How do you explain an Edo Tensei being able to undo Edo Tensei and not someone else? It seems like an odd thing to give the resurrectee the ability to free themself from the jutsu. Madara said all you need to know is the seals to undo/redo the jutsu.

Because the Jutsu connects the summoner and the person who was summoned, Hence why they are able to control them. An outsider has zero connection to the revived person.

That's like saying why can the person who summoned an Edo control them while someone else cannot. Which again is due to the connection between the Edo and the Summoner.

 

[Char Aznable]

You keep imply those Jounin are fodder when you have no idea who they are, at least 18 of them :lol
that is your first fail

I didn't imply anything about the Kumo Jonin. That was LoZelda101 .

Second, Cancel Edo Tensei is either the caster or the edo ninja can do it on them self. Even Itachi has to make Kabuto perform the seal :lol
fail number two

Madara knew the seals without anyone telling him. Itachi had to use Izanami (the asspull, beat Kabuto jutsu) and then get Kabuto to tell him and make Kabuto undo the Edo Tensei himself. If Hiruzen knew the seals, he would've undid Edo Tensei himself. Which would've been preferable than his failed "Neutralizer" no jutsu. :sdo:

Third, manga fact > you :lol

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Hiruzen being able to use all the jutsu within Konoha is the concrede fact, nothin can change that. Whether he has stamina or having time to think to use what is better in combat when he has at least several hundred + 1000 genjutsu + 1000 jutsu that Kakashi copied...is another story.

so fail number three :lol

Odd. It was stated multiple times in Part 1 that the only people who could do Rasengan were Minato and Jiraiya, nothing about Hiruzen. Same thing with Chidori/Raikiri, as Kakashi said he never taught it to anyone else. Hiruzen never demonstrated FTG, even in the presence of Minato and Tobirama during the War. Tobirama even comments that Minato is better at the jutsu than him. Manga states the only people who can do Edo Tensei were Oro, Tobirama and Kabuto (who learned by studying Oro's notes). Is Hiruzen's body compatible with the 8 Gates? Kakashi could only do at most 2, and Guy said not everyone can do them. Chakra Enhanced Strength is something both Hashi and Tsuna can do, but never seen Hiruzen do it.

The list goes on and on.


Hiruzen and his Fodder Fans Fail.

 

[Exaar]

Odd. It was stated multiple times in Part 1 that the only people who could do Rasengan were Minato and Jiraiya, nothing about Hiruzen. Same thing with Chidori/Raikiri, as Kakashi said he never taught it to anyone else. Hiruzen never demonstrated FTG, even in the presence of Minato and Tobirama during the War. Tobirama even comments that Minato is better at the jutsu than him. Manga states the only people who can do Edo Tensei were Oro, Tobirama and Kabuto (who learned by studying Oro's notes). Is Hiruzen's body compatible with the 8 Gates? Kakashi could only do at most 2, and Guy said not everyone can do them. Chakra Enhanced Strength is something both Hashi and Tsuna can do, but never seen Hiruzen do it.

The list goes on and on.


Hiruzen and his Fodder Fans Fail.

Even the 4th most recent databook confirmed Hiruzen knowing all leaf jutsu's. The only fail here are the people who denying it still.