Ten tails host Hagoromo Ootsutsuki keeps the strongest character tittle

[KCMNaruto]

Hello guys, I just read the lastest chapter of Naruto manga and I would like to list some points in the chapter which are reason why I created this thread. Here I go:

We know that Hagoromo Ootsutsuki bettter known as Sage of six paths was host of Full power complete Ten tails beast.

Now... we know that Obito was host of Incomplete Ten tails(Full 7 beasts + a bit of Gyuuki and Kurama):

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also Madara just became host of Almost Complete Ten tails(Full 8 beasts + half of Kurama):

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so in the end black half of Kurama in Minato is out of Madara's reach even although Madara is heading in wrong direction.

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- Yin dark half of Kurama is reserved for Naruto to save him !

Even if Madara get there and found out that other half of Kurama is in Minato then HE WON"T GET IT as:

1) Madara already become Ten tails host... so it is impossible to add other half of Kurama in himself
2) Other half of Kurama is reserved for Naruto to save his life.
3) FULL and COMPLETE REVIVAL OF TEN TAILS:

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^^ will signal end of this world... so IT CAN NOT HAPPEN... as GOOD GUYS WOULD HAVE NOT CHANCE TO BEAT FULL JUUBI... let alone Madara as Complete Juubi jin.

Thanks for reading !

Please share your thoughts

 

[AGoodBoy]

Just sounds like annoying/denial.
Bet people still believe juubito > juubidara.
It's obvious that kishi is trying to bring back so6p without asspulling a random revive. Hence madara.

 

[RikudouMadara]

Yes....I agree The Rikudou is still the most powerful when you include him at his most powerful. I dare to say that a pre Jin Rikudou could possibly be slightly more powerful than current Madara....don't quote me on that though. _@:

 

[RikudouMadara]

Just sounds like annoying/denial.
Bet people still believe juubito > juubidara.
It's obvious that kishi is trying to bring back so6p without asspulling a random revive. Hence madara.

Possibly, but I feel as far as Juubi hosts go....

The Rikudou>>Madara>>>>>Obito imho.

 

[AllomnisymbolsparttwoT]

dude. madara dont need the half of kyuubi just like obito did not need.. shinju will become complete without it anyway just like this

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[KCMNaruto]

Just sounds like annoying/denial.
Bet people still believe juubito > juubidara.
It's obvious that kishi is trying to bring back so6p without asspulling a random revive. Hence madara.

lol no I see it in order like that: Juubi Jin SOSP >

Spoiler

Juubi Jin Madara with double eyes(not yet)

> Juubi Jin Madara one eyed >= Post Jin SOSP>=Juubi Jin Obito > Pre Jin SOSP

Yes....I agree The Rikudou is still the most powerful when you include him at his most powerful. I dare to say that a pre Jin Rikudou could possibly be slightly more powerful than current Madara....don't quote me on that though. _@:

lol as Juubi Jin Madara is for sure above Pre Jin SOSP... arguable even above Post Jin SOSP or equal to him. Even if no yet then once he get other Rinnegan eye I believe he will be equal or above Post Jin SOSP.

but as you already noticed: Juubi Jin SOSP still stays the most powerfull character ever.

I see it in order like that: Juubi Jin SOSP >

Spoiler

Juubi Jin Madara with double eyes(not yet)

> Juubi Jin Madara one eyed >= Post Jin SOSP>=Juubi Jin Obito > Pre Jin SOSP

dude. madara dont need the half of kyuubi just like obito did not need.. shinju will become complete without it anyway just like this

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No... it only proves that Juubi still can reach it's final form even if incomplete...

I mean let's say that to reach final form... Juubi's need at least 50% or 60% of it's FULL POWER(if 9 full beasts are combined)... then even lacking full power but still sustaining at least some chakra from all nine beasts could be enough for it's to enter final form.

I mean for example take for example character in final form AT FULL POWER and compare to very weakened and almost completly drained character in SAME FINAL FORM but not AT FULL POWER... see ?

this is the point I try to show you.

That why in my opinion:

Juubi(SOSP's version) - 100% power of final version
Juubi(Madara's version) - 80-90% power of final version
Juubi(Obito's version) - around 60% power of final version.

 

[AllomnisymbolsparttwoT]

lol no I see it in order like that: Juubi Jin SOSP >

Spoiler

Juubi Jin Madara with double eyes(not yet)

> Juubi Jin Madara one eyed >= Post Jin SOSP>=Juubi Jin Obito > Pre Jin SOSP



lol as Juubi Jin Madara is for sure above Pre Jin SOSP... arguable even above Post Jin SOSP or equal to him. Even if no yet then once he get other Rinnegan eye I believe he will be equal or above Post Jin SOSP.

but as you already noticed: Juubi Jin SOSP still stays the most powerfull character ever.

I see it in order like that: Juubi Jin SOSP >

Spoiler

Juubi Jin Madara with double eyes(not yet)

> Juubi Jin Madara one eyed >= Post Jin SOSP>=Juubi Jin Obito > Pre Jin SOSP



No... it only proves that Juubi still can reach it's final form even if incomplete...

you got the point, good

 

[Byron123]

lol no I see it in order like that: Juubi Jin SOSP >

Spoiler

Juubi Jin Madara with double eyes(not yet)

> Juubi Jin Madara one eyed >= Post Jin SOSP>=Juubi Jin Obito > Pre Jin SOSP



lol as Juubi Jin Madara is for sure above Pre Jin SOSP... arguable even above Post Jin SOSP or equal to him. Even if no yet then once he get other Rinnegan eye I believe he will be equal or above Post Jin SOSP.

but as you already noticed: Juubi Jin SOSP still stays the most powerfull character ever.

I see it in order like that: Juubi Jin SOSP >

Spoiler

Juubi Jin Madara with double eyes(not yet)

> Juubi Jin Madara one eyed >= Post Jin SOSP>=Juubi Jin Obito > Pre Jin SOSP



No... it only proves that Juubi still can reach it's final form even if incomplete...

I mean let's say that to reach final form... Juubi's need at least 50% or 60% of it's FULL POWER(if 9 full beasts are combined)... then even lacking full power but still sustaining at least some chakra from all nine beasts could be enough for it's to enter final form.

I mean for example take for example character in final form AT FULL POWER and compare to very weakened and almost completly drained character in SAME FINAL FORM but not AT FULL POWER... see ?

this is the point I try to show you.

That why in my opinion:

Juubi(SOSP's version) - 100% power of final version
Juubi(Madara's version) - 80-90% power of final version
Juubi(Obito's version) - around 60% power of final version.

What you say is self contradicting. You say that it can reach its complete form without being complete yet doesn't this mean that it can also reach its full power? Besides, we have already Juubi's numerous transformations and each of them is strogner than the previous so it's only logical to say that by achieving its final form, it also achieves its full strength.

 

[KCMNaruto]

you got the point, good

Thanks and I am glad we can finally agree

What you say is self contradicting. You say that it can reach its complete form without being complete yet doesn't this mean that it can also reach its full power? Besides, we have already Juubi's numerous transformations and each of them is strogner than the previous so it's only logical to say that by achieving its final form, it also achieves its full strength.

Nope, also bolded part is wrong... I didn't even say it so please stop putting words in my mouth which were not spoken by me.

I only said that even Incomplete Juubi still can reach IT's FINAL/LAST FORM but NOT Complete. Yes COMPLETE != LAST/FINAL FORM.

Take for example SOMEONE IN LAST FORM AT FULL POWER != SOMEONE IN LAST FORM NOT AT FULL POWER(drained, damaged.), See diference ?

It only proves that YOU CAN STILL MAINTAIN FINAL FORM IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH POWER LEVEL lol BUT IT DOES NOT mean that you are AT FULL POWER.

Examples:

- Naruto Sage mode at full power vs Naruto Sage mode not at full power(drained, lacking some chakra)
- EMS Sasuke fresh at full power vs EMS Sasuke very weak(almost out of chakra.)

My point is that YOU ONLY NEED TO SURPRASS CERTAIN STAGE TO MAINTAIN FINAL FORM even if you are not any more at full power.

 

[AllomnisymbolsparttwoT]

What you say is self contradicting. You say that it can reach its complete form without being complete yet doesn't this mean that it can also reach its full power? Besides, we have already Juubi's numerous transformations and each of them is strogner than the previous so it's only logical to say that by achieving its final form, it also achieves its full strength.

Thanks and I am glad we can finally agree



Nope, also bolded part is wrong... I didn't even say it so please stop putting words in my mouth which were not spoken by me.

I only said that even Incomplete Juubi still can reach IT's FINAL/LAST FORM but NOT Complete. Yes COMPLETE != LAST/FINAL FORM.

Take for example SOMEONE IN LAST FORM AT FULL POWER != SOMEONE IN LAST FORM NOT AT FULL POWER(drained, damaged.), See diference ?

It only proves that YOU CAN STILL MAINTAIN FINAL FORM IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH POWER LEVEL lol BUT IT DOES NOT mean that you are AT FULL POWER.

Examples:

- Naruto Sage mode at full power vs Naruto Sage mode not at full power(drained, lacking some chakra)
- EMS Sasuke fresh at full power vs EMS Sasuke very weak(almost out of chakra.)

My point is that YOU ONLY NEED TO SURPRASS CERTAIN STAGE TO MAINTAIN FINAL FORM even if you are not any more at full power.

good job

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[Byron123]

Thanks and I am glad we can finally agree



Nope, also bolded part is wrong... I didn't even say it so please stop putting words in my mouth which were not spoken by me.

I only said that even Incomplete Juubi still can reach IT's FINAL/LAST FORM but NOT Complete. Yes COMPLETE != LAST/FINAL FORM.

Take for example SOMEONE IN LAST FORM AT FULL POWER != SOMEONE IN LAST FORM NOT AT FULL POWER(drained, damaged.), See diference ?

It only proves that YOU CAN STILL MAINTAIN FINAL FORM IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH POWER LEVEL lol BUT IT DOES NOT mean that you are AT FULL POWER.

Examples:

- Naruto Sage mode at full power vs Naruto Sage mode not at full power(drained, lacking some chakra)
- EMS Sasuke fresh at full power vs EMS Sasuke very weak(almost out of chakra.)

My point is that YOU ONLY NEED TO SURPRASS CERTAIN STAGE TO MAINTAIN FINAL FORM even if you are not any more at full power.

My mistake, I focused on Juubi as an entity, not to its jinchuuriki. From that point you're correct, after all had it been otherwise, obito would have tried to take Naruto's chakra as well.

 

[miromiro]

I do believe that current Madara came close to Pre Juubi Jinchuuriki Hagoromo, but hasn't passed him. I don't think anyone can come on par with any form of Rikudou Sennin.

 

[KCMNaruto]

I do believe that current Madara came close to Pre Juubi Jinchuuriki Hagoromo, but hasn't passed him. I don't think anyone can come on par with any form of Rikudou Sennin.

Well that nice... I think Pre Jin SOSP level was reached by Madara now... and maybe even surprassed.

Imo Post Jin SOSP still above as he created the Moon, but we have to wait and see for more Madara's feats.

Of course Juubi Jin SOSP still still far above him.

 

[voids]

It's impossible to become stronger than the sage. Though in saying that Madara was able to pull down meteors from space without the juubi. Imagine what he could do now. Now that just also gives testament to what the sage can do.

It's obvious kishi wants to show us what the sage could do without bringing him back to life. Yet Jubbidara is still nothing compared to the sage.

 

[miromiro]

Well that nice... I think Pre Jin SOSP level was reached by Madara now... and maybe even surprassed.

Imo Post Jin SOSP still above as he created the Moon, but we have to wait and see for more Madara's feats.

Of course Juubi Jin SOSP still still far above him.

I'm not sure any human can come close to him. It's not just about the power itself, it's about the chakra. The sons of Hagoromo, are supposed to be a half-half symbol of him, yet I doubt he has actually shared half of his power to each of them, since that would be insane. Were it like that, the Senju and Uchiha would have shitstomped anyone else. Madara is Senju and Uchiha combined, yet he only combined himself with a lot weaker versions of Senju and Uchiha Hagoromo essence. Basically, having the Juubi in himself wasn't necessarily a power-up for Hagoromo, since you already need to have more power than the Juubi to be able to defeat it. Remember, he was the first who did it, with no knowledge. People say that he simply incapacitated the Juubi and sealed it, yet you really think a creature, a progenitor like Juubi could be made to sit still so easily? Weren't it for these little Hashirama DNA tricks the Juubi would have gone mad and nobody could have done shit.

 

[KCMNaruto]

I'm not sure any human can come close to him. It's not just about the power itself, it's about the chakra. The sons of Hagoromo, are supposed to be a half-half symbol of him, yet I doubt he has actually shared half of his power to each of them, since that would be insane. Were it like that, the Senju and Uchiha would have shitstomped anyone else. Madara is Senju and Uchiha combined, yet he only combined himself with a lot weaker versions of Senju and Uchiha Hagoromo essence. Basically, having the Juubi in himself wasn't necessarily a power-up for Hagoromo, since you already need to have more power than the Juubi to be able to defeat it. Remember, he was the first who did it, with no knowledge. People say that he simply incapacitated the Juubi and sealed it, yet you really think a creature, a progenitor like Juubi could be made to sit still so easily? Weren't it for these little Hashirama DNA tricks the Juubi would have gone mad and nobody could have done shit.

well that is most likely true... but then again

Juubi Jin Madara > Full power Juubi... that at least what I think

 

[AGoodBoy]

Possibly, but I feel as far as Juubi hosts go....

The Rikudou>>Madara>>>>>Obito imho.

For now,as far as we can guess, because madara's missing the other eye.

Rikudou is a near featless man with SM, Rinnegan, and juubi. Already stating he's stronger than madara right now is just a guess because we don't even know. Just by kishi's words early on in the manga "The old generation will surpass the new", it's already likely kishi could possibly make madara stronger than rikudou. That's to show some sort of philosophical or spiritual or something meaning around the lines of "Ootsoku started this shit, the new generation must defeat ootsoku(madara as his replacement) to break the cycle he created".

Anyway, it all comes down to speculation.

Sage = SM + Rinnegan + juubi
Madara = SM + rinnegan + juubi + techs developed by ninja over hundreds of years (uchiha kinjutsu, forbidden techs, etc.) which we have no hint the sage knew. In the first place, it's unlikely the sage knew about S/T jutsu which is around in this time.

My point comes down to this: The sage's only feats are;
- defeating the juubi(repeated thrice over by SA, obito and madara)
- creating the moon on his death bed. Something nagato has done on a significantly lower scale. Now, bare in mind, Nagato was also on his deathbed, had no sage mode, had no haxed uchiha+senju chakra, and had no boosted power from being the host of the gedo's empty shell.

Just saying.

lol no I see it in order like that: Juubi Jin SOSP >

Spoiler

Juubi Jin Madara with double eyes(not yet)

> Juubi Jin Madara one eyed >= Post Jin SOSP>=Juubi Jin Obito > Pre Jin SOSP

read the above. Anything to do with rikudo is mass speculation. All he did was take down a juubi years ago when the most haxxx technique, other than omnyoudon, was maybe walking up a tree. Over the years ninja developed s/t jutsu, shadow clone jutsu, sealing jutsu, forbidden jutsu, etc. As far as we know, Juubito is already as strong, if not stronger than SO6P. Creating the moon while, we just got told, he was jin of gedo, isn't anything special. Obito shattered his arm on a boulder, then shattered that same boulder when he siphoned off a small portion of power from gedo.

 

[RikudouMadara]

For now,as far as we can guess, because madara's missing the other eye.

Rikudou is a near featless man with SM, Rinnegan, and juubi. Already stating he's stronger than madara right now is just a guess because we don't even know. Just by kishi's words early on in the manga "The old generation will surpass the new", it's already likely kishi could possibly make madara stronger than rikudou. That's to show some sort of philosophical or spiritual or something meaning around the lines of "Ootsoku started this shit, the new generation must defeat ootsoku(madara as his replacement) to break the cycle he created".

Anyway, it all comes down to speculation.

Sage = SM + Rinnegan + juubi
Madara = SM + rinnegan + juubi + techs developed by ninja over hundreds of years (uchiha kinjutsu, forbidden techs, etc.) which we have no hint the sage knew. In the first place, it's unlikely the sage knew about S/T jutsu which is around in this time.

My point comes down to this: The sage's only feats are;
- defeating the juubi(repeated thrice over by SA, obito and madara)
- creating the moon on his death bed. Something nagato has done on a significantly lower scale. Now, bare in mind, Nagato was also on his deathbed, had no sage mode, had no haxed uchiha+senju chakra, and had no boosted power from being the host of the gedo's empty shell.

Just saying.

I agree with everything you just said. ^_^ Especially the idea of Jutsu being developed over many years in which The Rikudou doesn't know of apparently. Then I think back when it was said he could use any tech.....but I'm not going to get into that. Nevertheless I agree very much. XD

 

[AGoodBoy]

I agree with everything you just said. ^_^ Especially the idea of Jutsu being developed over many years in which The Rikudou doesn't know of apparently. Then I think back when it was said he could use any tech.....but I'm not going to get into that. Nevertheless I agree very much. XD

Yea, he can use any tech... Any tech he knows of. He can't use shit he's never heard of. Even thinking so6p could somehow just up and use something like Kamui, when no one knew wtf it was, is already bullshit. Therefore, every single new tech developed after his time is shit he didn't know.
In the first place, did we all not see how easily mads and obito shat on juubi? That was neg diff... That's not even a feat for sage to have defeated that...

 

[KCMNaruto]

For now,as far as we can guess, because madara's missing the other eye.

Rikudou is a near featless man with SM, Rinnegan, and juubi. Already stating he's stronger than madara right now is just a guess because we don't even know. Just by kishi's words early on in the manga "The old generation will surpass the new", it's already likely kishi could possibly make madara stronger than rikudou. That's to show some sort of philosophical or spiritual or something meaning around the lines of "Ootsoku started this shit, the new generation must defeat ootsoku(madara as his replacement) to break the cycle he created".

Anyway, it all comes down to speculation.

Sage = SM + Rinnegan + juubi
Madara = SM + rinnegan + juubi + techs developed by ninja over hundreds of years (uchiha kinjutsu, forbidden techs, etc.) which we have no hint the sage knew. In the first place, it's unlikely the sage knew about S/T jutsu which is around in this time.

My point comes down to this: The sage's only feats are;
- defeating the juubi(repeated thrice over by SA, obito and madara)
- creating the moon on his death bed. Something nagato has done on a significantly lower scale. Now, bare in mind, Nagato was also on his deathbed, had no sage mode, had no haxed uchiha+senju chakra, and had no boosted power from being the host of the gedo's empty shell.

Just saying.


read the above. Anything to do with rikudo is mass speculation. All he did was take down a juubi years ago when the most haxxx technique, other than omnyoudon, was maybe walking up a tree. Over the years ninja developed s/t jutsu, shadow clone jutsu, sealing jutsu, forbidden jutsu, etc. As far as we know, Juubito is already as strong, if not stronger than SO6P. Creating the moon while, we just got told, he was jin of gedo, isn't anything special. Obito shattered his arm on a boulder, then shattered that same boulder when he siphoned off a small portion of power from gedo.

doesnt matter and you are the only one who understimate SOSP. P

1)

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^^ ability or potential to use any jutsu

2)

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^^ Creation of the Moon

3)

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^^ As Juubi Jin SOSP was literally God(not even Obito as Juubi Jin was feared and reffered to ). Even as Juubi Jin Obito reffers to Sage of six paths in high tone as he states Sage was able to RECREATE/RESHAPE ENTIRE THE WORLD(maybe even planet without i's core of course) after his battle with COMPLETE JUUBI while he was Juubi Jinchurki.

4) Obito's Juubi version was incomplete while Madara's Juubi version is almost complete. Sage's Juubi version is ONLY ONE COMPLETE.

^^ all the manga facts stated above by me. (I am not going into Creation of all things at which Sage has mastery and could basically anything he wants to do.)

Yea, he can use any tech... Any tech he knows of. He can't use shit he's never heard of. Even thinking so6p could somehow just up and use something like Kamui, when no one knew wtf it was, is already bullshit. Therefore, every single new tech developed after his time is shit he didn't know.
In the first place, did we all not see how easily mads and obito shat on juubi? That was neg diff... That's not even a feat for sage to have defeated that...

Bolded part is not true completly. Of course Sage of six paths most likely could not use any technique developed later after his death, but it all depens on if Sage wanted or needed to create such technique for any purpouse, then he would.

However in battle scenario... it basically means that Sage could be able to easily decipher and use opponent's technique to counter it just after one glance... or he could come up with new technique to counter opponent technique... simply as that.

Obito did NOT shit on Juubi. JUUBI WAS RESTRAINED... WEAKENED and was unable to move/react.

Madara although yes... he bascially shint on Juubi and did it alone. However Sage's case was still harder as Juubi was awoken and fully moving when Sage meet it... while in Madara's case it was just barerly awoken and before Juubi could react Madara sealed it in himself. It is called anticipation.