The only time that was stated was as I said with Tobirama's Suiryudan, so the rest is pure speculation (altough I'm trying to explain to you why it's not funny to hand draw 44 hand seals for show a jutsu). Wut? How did Madara intercept anything if not with his ribs? If you're going to accuse me of making things up (even though I'm trying to explain to you how graphic novels work in general), do the same . There is absolutely no reason on to why Gai didn't aim a little bit to his left with the kick except that it wasn't his job to win the fight story wise.
Gai activated 7 Gates and tried to land hits on Madara, which have all failed. Then he tried to charge him with Hirudora, but Madara intercepted him before he could do that. What the hell does plot have anything to do with this? Nothing. Hirudora failed in the manga and fails against Nagato, because it's weak (could not kill Kisame) and ST repels it. Why is this hard to understand?
Again, Edo Nagato cannot fly on his own, as proven when he walked with the help from Itachi since being summoned (plus he did summon the bird to move on the fight when flying on his own would make him much small of a target). 5 seconds were enough for a Sage Naruto (with no speed feats) to beat Yahiko, it will be more than enough for any of these 3.
I can use plot as an excuse just like you did and say 5 seconds for SM Naruto was a plot-hole. And yes, good looking on trying to hit a flying opponent before 5 seconds passes. It's not gonna happen.
Ok, so please explain to me how was it that a normal Ay could intercept Naruto when a fully speed charged one couldn't (and with no visible powerups for Naruto in the middle). I've already given you an answer, but I would like to hear yours (and again if you're going to accuse me of making things up, please don't spew that linear movement bullshit )
Because Naruto was able to to adjust to Ay's speed after getting hit countless times prior. It doesn't need complex explanation.
Then why no character in pretty much all the series did cough blood after using chakra when almost out? Simple: he's in a decrepit state and cannot take much strain on his body (and again ,that's the Nagato they're fighting).
Itachi bled when he overused his MS, so did Sasuke, so did Kakashi and etc. Nagato was overusing his Chakra by the time he created a planet. Chakra is a spiritual and physical energy; when you exercise too much, you start to get fatigue and strain.
What you say is common sense has to be backed up with either facts or feats, and I don't recall nowhere in the manga stating that Nagato sends 1/6th of his chakra to each of his bodies, which in turn would make their jutsus only 1/6th strong. And no, in the first post he put this image:
This is becoming plain silly. It's not required for Kishi to say something that's plainly and mathematically obvious for any reader with brain cells. 6 corpses receive Chakra from Nagato to function properly, so how much is Nagato transmitting? There are 6 bodies so it's obvious he distributes 1/6 of his Chakra. Only exception is if he's using CST then he distributes his Chakra fully to Deva Path. I can't believe I'm explaining something so obvious.
So that's why I asked if he meant decrepit Nagato in my first post. If he or she is reading this, it would be best if it's clarified which version of Nagato they are fighting.
I'm pretty sure he refers to Nagato whose either Edo Tensei or alive healthy one. A Nagato on a wheel-chair with rods stuck on his back cannot fight.
Naruto was lifted from the ground when pulled, so speed doesn't have anything to do with resisting the pull. BT combo with a meteorite? what? If you're refering to the rock he pulled from the lake it just that, a rock, something that can be smashed by people with strong enough taijutsu, like the people he's fighting.
If we're talking scientifically, speed has everything to do with it. So how are they smashing it when they can't move, when KCM Naruto couldn't? They can't. Not only that, I just gave the meteorite as one example. BT with Human Path or black rod combo = dead Team Speed.
If I recall correctly I never said Hirudora would trump over ST, just that it would kill whatever summon Nagato is using to move (and unless Nagato would like to crush his own mount, ST is out of the question). Also if I recall correctly ST was not only repelled but deflected right back to Yahiko's face by an angry 6 tailed Naruto, so I wouldn't say it's almighty either.
Nagato can pinpoint his ST to prevent hitting his summons, like he did
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. Yes, a 6 Tailed Kyubi deflected ST but 6 Tailed Kyubi >>>>>>>>> Gai and Hirudora by miles whom Kisame tanked.
I'm not saying that the kunai will not be pulled, I'm saying that Minato can push the kunai away from the core with the chakra hands faster than CT can pull it back to it's core. Then it's just a matter of teleporting to it, push it away and teleport again until the sphere is formed. Pushing doesn't mean throwing the kunai btw.
Haizaki, stop making a fool of yourself. Stop posing someone you're not and never will be. It's bad for your health and self-esteem. You got exposed. It's just a social media, no need to go that deep.
Bruh I know the definition of shape. Posting it here was just you being extra. The fact that the light takes a physical three-dimensional shape means it is already physically interacting with the environment in a way that light does not do in the real world. Neither of your examples of light taking a shape are legitimate because they are simply light from a source being projected onto a surface. Not the same thing at all as light itself manifesting into a 3D form, which doesn't happen in the real life universe, so your analogies fail hard.
A, minato, gai arent lightspeed. If A was lightspeed, he wouldnt need kohaku no johei to arrive at the battlefield, since it is lightspeed transmission pot.
And I'm no scientist, but I know light is carried by photons. A powerful enough shockwave will scatter those photons thus destroying the dragon.
Except 'powerful attacks' cant scatter light photons. It takes more than that.
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Why would Kishi color a literal manifestation of light black? When has "light" ever been portrayed, drawn, or colored black in any page of this manga? Black usually indicates an ABSENCE of light. The fact that the orb is black stands in stark contrast to the white dragon (which we know is made of light) means they were colored differently for a reason. Your claim of a black orb being "light" is supported by NOTHING.
In the anime, it was coloured purple. Dont go too physics in here, you've to make sure you keep with the director's laws. In the real world, eyes cant summon meteors. Energy focusing wont allow you to walk on water. So what's important here is the director's laws. The orb might not be light, but it is made of natural energy. As it is natural energy, the light being emitted is not chakra, but rather natural light. So in open ground, more than an advantage, team one suffers a disadvantage since none of them travels at the speed of light. And there is nothing to suggest kabuto didnt amp the light with extra speed, considering senjutsu increases every aspect of it's user. In an open field, the light will surround the whole area, so they wouldnt even be able to block it by hiding.
I love it when people draw out a simple process into steps as to make it seem longer. Ay would already be lightened by the time Kabuto vomits up the dragon. And
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What makes you think Itachi, Kabuto, or Nagato could? (If you can't locate your target how do you know where to aim your attack?)
Kabuto has karin's sensing capabilities and jugo's sage mode sensing combined. Karin's sensory abilities are better than dojutsu according to databook. Itachi could easily fight off bee and naruto, so kabuto could keep up with him though he was fighting without killing or injuring intent. Still kept up. Part 1 itachi was faster than 5th gate lee speed, approximated by the fact, kakashi could keep up with lee but couldnt keep up with itachi's speed. So there's no using in doubting whether kabuto can evade or not. His reaction and reflexes would be far higher than A and Gai and minato. Once the technique gets activated, team one is in for the real deal.
This is why Minato's teleportation matters:
-Minato tags Ay and Gai.
-Ay or Gai runs as far away as they can when they see the light dragon emerge from Kabuto.
-When the light explodes, Minato teleports himself and his remaining teammate to where Ay or Gai is, safely outside of WR's area of effect.
-Then Minato leaves a marker there in case they need a quick escape again.
Releasing the dragon inside of Susanoo makes no difference.
Did you forget the orb light was omni-directional?
So White Rage is immune to ALL attacks, including Bijuu Dama, Shinsuusenju, Jinton, TSB. Because "it's light" and "light cannot be physically touched". That is your official position, just to be clear?
Actually it cannot be touched, not even in anime, since chidori spear which is a light spear was never touched. Danzo couldnt touch it. Danzo uses wood release.
Summary of my points:
-The dragon can be destroyed w/ Asakujaku, Hirudora, or Rasengan due to the explosions scattering the photons.
-Even if the attacks simply pass through the dragon due to being light, the orb remains vulnerable and can be destroyed w/ Asakujaku, Hirudora, Rasengan, or a weighted punch- OR, can be teleported into the mouth of a frog where the explosion of light and sound will not affect anybody.
-Even if we follow your no limits fallacy of WR being immune to all attacks, Team Speed can still escape WR's area of effect since they are not trapped in a cave and this is an outdoor location.
-And just for the hell of it... if all else fails, there is a lake in this location that Team Speed can dive into before WR goes off. The water will absorb the vibration while they wait out the duration of the jutsu.
Except if they cant do that as they're not faster than faster-than-light speed, and Minato isnt reaching the orb without getting his nerves stunned as soon as the vibrations hit him, not to mention the light virtually cancels all of his strategies.
If they dive through the lake, the sound will still reach them, since natural energy amplified sound is far faster and potent than normal sound which was used by the sound genin in part 1. So again they're trapped. Even if they survive underwater, itachi could simply seal the water with totsuka blade and expose them to dragon light. Nagato could level the ground with shinra tensei and reveal them, two options.
In any case, White Rage is not a deciding factor in this fight.
White Rage may or may not be the deciding factor, but still it would be the key to opening the deciding factor. Once it's successfully activated, thier movements get stunned and then itachi and nagato uses yasaka magatama, hell realm to kill them.
when Ay blitzed his ass. Now r u gonna say Ms Itachi has the same tracking ability as Late Ems sasuke? How about edo nagato? or Dsm kabuto?-_-
Youre not.
Madara was not blitz there was no sigh of shocked or surprised marks by his head and he was looking at them just fine eyes we're not open wide. He had Rinnegan active meaning no pre-cog to begin with so my point remains. I hope Ei is good at just watching Itachi's feet. Manda 2 has yet to be mentioned as well Team Zombie goes in.
Madara was not blitz there was no sigh of shocked or surprised marks by his head and he was looking at them just fine eyes we're not open wide. He had Rinnegan active meaning no pre-cog to begin with so my point remains. I hope Ei is good at just watching Itachi's feet. Manda 2 has yet to be mentioned as well Team Zombie goes in.
If anything, I think you got exposed for being a dirty ass liar. What did I get exposed for? Curious to know because my last post shows "everything", I never ever told you or anyone else a different story ever, the conversations with all the people you mentioned? I posted it so you guys are the ones that got exposed as nasty ass liars :lol. My personal life being posted here is nothing, I mean the shit is on the internet for multiple people I don't even know to see so if you think you exposed me by posting it here, you're dull. Keep getting enraptured by the BS of two random guys you don't know supposedly "fighting" but we know well you won't dare post your shit, we all know you get down with your boy Johnny and we all know you really a questionable fella. Right Abo Al Jarood?
:lol Now he's threatening me that's he going to hack into my ps4 account with his little hack friends. Is that because I didn't play Fifa with you? Do you want to be friends with me so that we can play fifa? :lol. Btw, that isn't my username or my name in fact (you're lying as usual). The account you added me in ps4, I don't use it anymore. So good luck hacking it, and please tell your hack friends to hack my old ps4 account. Anyways, it's been entertaining humiliating you and exposing you for the lies you've been sharing on an anime website, which no one gives a shit about. Good bye Mr. bullshitter :hugg:
I concede. I don't care to argue on whether the dragon can be destroyed or not any longer since my team already has a way to avoid WR's effects altogether. Now let's get to the good stuff and discuss how one team kills the other. You start with a brief outline and I will counter.
@Evani I probably got you mixed up with Apex. I think he goes to law school
-Match starts.
-White Rage is used.
-They create distance and escape.
-Kabuto summons Manda II, Nagato summons the Mazo, Susanoo protects Kabuto and Nagato then Team Speed gets obliterated by:
1. Mazo and Manda along with Deva techs from Nagato and Genjutsu or more White Rage attempts from Kabuto.
2. Chou Shinra Tensei.
3. Shinra Tensei that wiped out the Gama Trio + a finishing attack if need be.
They can't breach Susanoo nor can they even come close in scenario 2 due to Yata.. KC is an almost useless buff in terms of firepower.
-Minato gets no buff.
-Gai uses Taijutsu.
-Ay uses Taijutsu.
So unless they can blitz and kill them off from the start they fail and they do so badly, but even that is impossible as Ay, who is by far the fastest person on this team, has no feat that lets him dash a straight 50m line and punch anyone on this team, especially Kabuto, without them being able to react. "Blitzing" Madara from less than 10 meters is not a feat that translates into blitzing from 50 meters away so I don't want to read that argument again.
This is prolonging for too long. It'll be my last reply.
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.
Gai activated 7 Gates and tried to land hits on Madara, which have all failed. Then he tried to charge him with Hirudora, but Madara intercepted him before he could do that. What the hell does plot have anything to do with this? Nothing. Hirudora failed in the manga and fails against Nagato, because it's weak (could not kill Kisame) and ST repels it. Why is this hard to understand?
I can use plot as an excuse just like you did and say 5 seconds for SM Naruto was a plot-hole. And yes, good looking on trying to hit a flying opponent before 5 seconds passes. It's not gonna happen.
Because Naruto was able to to adjust to Ay's speed after getting hit countless times prior. It doesn't need complex explanation.
Itachi bled when he overused his MS, so did Sasuke, so did Kakashi and etc. Nagato was overusing his Chakra by the time he created a planet. Chakra is a spiritual and physical energy; when you exercise too much, you start to get fatigue and strain.
This is becoming plain silly. It's not required for Kishi to say something that's plainly and mathematically obvious for any reader with brain cells. 6 corpses receive Chakra from Nagato to function properly, so how much is Nagato transmitting? There are 6 bodies so it's obvious he distributes 1/6 of his Chakra. Only exception is if he's using CST then he distributes his Chakra fully to Deva Path. I can't believe I'm explaining something so obvious.
I'm pretty sure he refers to Nagato whose either Edo Tensei or alive healthy one. A Nagato on a wheel-chair with rods stuck on his back cannot fight.
If we're talking scientifically, speed has everything to do with it. So how are they smashing it when they can't move, when KCM Naruto couldn't? They can't. Not only that, I just gave the meteorite as one example. BT with Human Path or black rod combo = dead Team Speed.
Nagato can pinpoint his ST to prevent hitting his summons, like he did
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. Yes, a 6 Tailed Kyubi deflected ST but 6 Tailed Kyubi >>>>>>>>> Gai and Hirudora by miles whom Kisame tanked.
So you're saying Minato is resistant to a gravity that rips off mountain range? :lol
- The "deflection" I was talking about was with Night Guy, not Hirudora (And how was it that it didn't rip Madara's head off but only his left side). At any rate, we're talking about a guy that coughs blood by using his own ninjutsu, there is no logical reason to believe he will tank a direct hit. (and seeing that his only defense against any of these 3 is ST, he won't be lasting long either)
- Of course you can do that, as it wasn't the only plot device ever used in Naruto, altough I wouldn't say it was a plot device since he tanked ST with the clones he had lying arround (something that's probable) and was near Yahiko when ST ended (which would also make it probable for him to hit him). Btw, Edo white-haired Nagato cannot fly.
- Ok, so Naruto "adjusted" to Ay base speed and somehow that enabled him to dodge an even faster A in the first try? *_* /logic
- Eye bleeding using Mangekyo Sharingan is a known thing, and it's not due to being chakra depleted. And also you're saying I'm right, since the bleeding is from the strain on the eyes (that's why they bleed from the eyes and not from the mouth) as the bleeding from Nagato (no rinnegan user bled from the eyes from overusing so far) comes from the strain on his decrepit body.
- Ok, lets go with that logic. Each body takes 1/6th of his chakra. How much chakra is left for Nagato? Absolute 0, so he dies (as explained on the series on what happens when you totally deplete your chakra). Can't believe you missed something that obvious *_* The only obvious thing (and because it was explained in the series) is that he sends some degree of chakra to the black rods to control the bodies, and that's it. Saying that the techniques will be 6 times as powerful used by Nagato is a wild guess at the very best.
- The Nagato that walked with Itachi is the same Nagato that was on the chair after resurrecting Konoha, and that's the image of the Nagato the OP put on the first post.
- Not in this case, if they're pulled from the ground they cannot use speed to resist BT, unless you think they can run on the air. Already proven they can move. Both Kakashi (by physically using a chain to hold on to a rock) and Naruto (by using a chakra hand). Also, claiming that it was a "weak" BT when used on Kakashi with no proof whatsoever ...
- Bee threw the blade from the side, not from the front where the beak is. The ST was aimed at Nagato's right, not front. Also I'm not saying that they can deflect it back at Nagato, just saying that it's not some all powerful technique.
- Not only Minato, Naruto, Itachi and Bee also resisted the same gravity (resisted as in I can move and do stuff while being pulled). As a matter of fact I'm trying to think of somebody that was utterly paralyzed or something while in the range of effect of CT but noone comes to mind.
-Match starts.
-White Rage is used.
-They create distance and escape.
-Kabuto summons Manda II, Nagato summons the Mazo, Susanoo protects Kabuto and Nagato then Team Speed gets obliterated by:
1. Mazo and Manda along with Deva techs from Nagato and Genjutsu or more White Rage attempts from Kabuto.
2. Chou Shinra Tensei.
3. Shinra Tensei that wiped out the Gama Trio + a finishing attack if need be.
They can't breach Susanoo nor can they even come close in scenario 2 due to Yata.. KC is an almost useless buff in terms of firepower.
-Minato gets no buff.
-Gai uses Taijutsu.
-Ay uses Taijutsu.
So unless they can blitz and kill them off from the start they fail and they do so badly, but even that is impossible as Ay, who is by far the fastest person on this team, has no feat that lets him dash a straight 50m line and punch anyone on this team, especially Kabuto, without them being able to react. "Blitzing" Madara from less than 10 meters is not a feat that translates into blitzing from 50 meters away so I don't want to read that argument again.
Pain Paths are 6 Nagatos in 6 bodies. He controls them as if they are his body. Any feat Pain/Nagato Paths do, Nagato does better because he controls them remotely.
- The "deflection" I was talking about was with Night Guy, not Hirudora (And how was it that it didn't rip Madara's head off but only his left side). At any rate, we're talking about a guy that coughs blood by using his own ninjutsu, there is no logical reason to believe he will tank a direct hit. (and seeing that his only defense against any of these 3 is ST, he won't be lasting long either)
All of this is irrelevant because 8 Gates is restricted. We're talking about a guy who opens 7 Gates, launches a Jutsu that can't kill Kisame (whom can be killed by a sword) and fatigues himself later.
- Of course you can do that, as it wasn't the only plot device ever used in Naruto, altough I wouldn't say it was a plot device since he tanked ST with the clones he had lying arround (something that's probable) and was near Yahiko when ST ended (which would also make it probable for him to hit him). Btw, Edo white-haired Nagato cannot fly.
Except Ay didn't use his base speed. He used his V1 speed. He later used his full speed which Naruto dodged. You can take it up with Kishi. As a matter of fact, you don't need to be faster than someone to intercept him. A goal keeper can block a kicked ball that travels at 80 miles per hour, yet the goal keeper doesn't run half of that.
-Eye bleeding using Mangekyo Sharingan is a known thing, and it's not due to being chakra depleted. And also you're saying I'm right, since the bleeding is from the strain on the eyes (that's why they bleed from the eyes and not from the mouth) as the bleeding from Nagato (no rinnegan user bled from the eyes from overusing so far) comes from the strain on his decrepit body.
And once again, the op is talking about ET Nagato who fought KCM Naruto and Bee, not a wheel chair Nagato.
-Ok, lets go with that logic. Each body takes 1/6th of his chakra. How much chakra is left for Nagato? Absolute 0, so he dies (as explained on the series on what happens when you totally deplete your chakra). Can't believe you missed something that obvious The only obvious thing (and because it was explained in the series) is that he sends some degree of chakra to the black rods to control the bodies, and that's it. Saying that the techniques will be 6 times as powerful used by Nagato is a wild guess at the very best.
Except that isn't how Nagato's 6 Paths Jutsu works. He transmits huge Chakra signals per second, which is then distributed to each path at 1/6. He doesn't transmit his full Chakra at one go. It works exactly like a transmission tower; it sends electrical power and distributes it. The electrical company doesn't use up their electrical power at one go, but they distribute it. Nagato does the same thing with Chakra. So once again, you clearly fail to comprehend something as basic as this concept and deny it, despite being blatant stated Nagato's techniques are in a whole league than when he uses Pain.
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- The Nagato that walked with Itachi is the same Nagato that was on the chair after resurrecting Konoha, and that's the image of the Nagato the OP put on the first post.
Not the same Nagato you said on a wheel chair. This Nagato takes flight then starts one-shotting Team Speed.
- Not in this case, if they're pulled from the ground they cannot use speed to resist BT, unless you think they can run on the air. Already proven they can move. Both Kakashi (by physically using a chain to hold on to a rock) and Naruto (by using a chakra hand). Also, claiming that it was a "weak" BT when used on Kakashi with no proof whatsoever ...
So you agree they can't move on air, if Nagato pulls them from air. Good. We're now on the same page. And what is Team Speed going to do when they're pulled on air by BT? I can explain it to you.
If Nagato flies on air, pulls Team Speed and they move their hands as you're saying, this is what will happen:
-Onoki tries to use Jinton, Nagato absorbs it then rips his soul out instantly.
-Ay tries to use Lariat on Nagato, Asura limbs restrain him as it did to Bee, then rips his soul off.
-Gai tries to use Hirudora, ST repels it and sends Gai down on the groun; since he's fatigued from 7 Gates, Nagato pulls him yet again and rips soul off.
-Only Minato survives due to FTG, but he gets curb-stomped later.
This is what will happen.
- Bee threw the blade from the side, not from the front where the beak is. The ST was aimed at Nagato's right, not front. Also I'm not saying that they can deflect it back at Nagato, just saying that it's not some all powerful technique.
- Not only Minato, Naruto, Itachi and Bee also resisted the same gravity (resisted as in I can move and do stuff while being pulled). As a matter of fact I'm trying to think of somebody that was utterly paralyzed or something while in the range of effect of CT but noone comes to mind.
Neither Itachi, Bee or Naruto or 6 Tailed Kyubi moved in the manner you're implying Minato or his kunai can, so stop lying. Minato throws a kunai, core pulls it and Minato has nowhere to teleport. You're pulling implications that are illogically impossible and never happened on the manga. It's getting repetitive that I'm explaining the obvious. Kunai has a mass, core gravity pulls it regardless if Chakra Arms extend it. That and Minato has never shown to throw it greater distance than CT's range. Last time I'm saying this:
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I would like you to take a very deep breath, look at the scan and count how many circles which represent the size of a mountain. If you can get me a feat from Minato with physical strength that can throw a kunai beyond that range, I'll concede; if not then you lost. Don't reply to me until you get me a scan of that feat. I'm not interested in how you believe Chakra Arms will do something it has never canonically done. *_*
-Match starts.
-White Rage is used.
-They create distance and escape.
-Kabuto summons Manda II, Nagato summons the Mazo, Susanoo protects Kabuto and Nagato then Team Speed gets obliterated by:
1. Mazo and Manda along with Deva techs from Nagato and Genjutsu or more White Rage attempts from Kabuto.
You just listed a bunch of your team's abilities without specifying how they can be used to actually take out my team.
Mazo and Manda are too slow to touch anybody on Team Speed so I cannot see how they have any real effect in this battle, and Nagato can't properly control the Mazo. (Plus a single touch from Onoki would immobilize Manda 2, though I suppose that is technically against the rules.)
More WR attempts from Kabuto simply get evaded like they do the first time.
First of all, it would have to actually hit. Minato can see the ground being torn up as the shockwave approaches them and very quickly react by teleporting his team to a safe distance before the shockwave hits, or spread his kunai around and see the shockwave coming as indicated by the kunai being tossed back.
Now you didn't specify if this was focused or unfocused CST. I would like to point out that if you are talking about focused CST it will be extremely difficult to nail any of them. Nagato can't track 7 Gate Gai's movement speed so he would not know where to focus his CST unless Gai completely stopped moving, and he cannot track Ay's shunshin so he would only know where he was in the intervals between him using shunshin. It's also likely that Nagato's CST requires some sort of buildup considering that when Pain used it he had to deactivate the other Pains, so my team would sense something coming and move to a safe distance. Also, if you are talking about focused CST Nagato can only nail one of them (because my team won't be grouped together) leaving him vulnerable in the cooldown time.
CST (ST in general) only deals real damage to the target when they hit the ground, the damage from the initial force is minimal and can be tanked by their Kyubi cloaks considering mini-Katsuyus protected thousands of villagers from CST. The DB explains it. Bolded statement explains the first stage (when the force hits the target) and underlined statement is the second stage (when the target collides w/ the ground.)
Hide
Shinra-tensei (All-Nature Repulsion).
Ninjutsu, Keke-genkai, offensive, defensive, close range.
Users:Nagato
Invisible hand of God, that repels anything in creation!
Pain Tendou uses this jutsu, utilizing the generated from the users hands repulsive (gravity) force to repel targets away. The number of targets that can be repelled and their size are irrelevant . In addition by stopping the utilization of other Pain paths the amount of chakra put in the jutsu, its strength and area of effect can be greatly increased. With one strike of its power entire Konoha no sato (Konoha village) was turned to smoldering ash. But after this jutsu has been triggered there is a small five second window it can't be used again. The originating repulsion force generated by the power of all creation”shinra obiki” (something that binds all together,so likely gravitation) forces its targets to collide together with a great force and put out additional damage, combined together with the initial force (shock wave) it puts up even more damage. Only those who can manipulate all chakra transformation properties (seishitsu) legendary “Rinnegan” wielders are allowed to posses this jutsu that has all rights to be called “crystally perfect”.
Picture: Its repulsion force is so strong that even ninjutsu and taijutsu are equally ineffective against this jutsu, with an unexpected discharge of the invisible force, it is very easy to catch opponents off guard .
So it seems that shinra tensei uses natural gravitational force, and only the one who has all chakra transformation (including yin-yang) can manipulate natural gravity field (shinra obiki).
P.S Sorry for mistakes English isn't his native language.
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-Naruto's clones don't poof until they hit the ground.
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-The toads don't take real damage until they hit the ground.
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-Bee is unaffected from the ST when he Lariato's Nagato because he hadn't hit the ground yet.
So CST will only kill them if they hit the ground with full force, which won't happen because:
-If Gai is hit, Minato teleports him into the lake (where Minato would have placed a marker early on in the battle), so the water will slow him down and cushion his fall. Or, Gai summons his turtle in mid air and uses it as a launching pad to kick off in the other direction that he's being pushed.
-If Minato is hit, he just teleports into the water.
-If Ay is hit, Onoki lightens him to the point where he weighs zero kilograms. Ay will hit the ground with no damage because he weighs nothing. force=mass*acceleration and when he weighs zero, anything multiplied by zero is still zero. (Or Minato can just teleport him into the lake too.)
So if Nagato even manages to nail any of them before Minato teleports his team to safety, the other teammate avoids damage and Nagato cannot use Deva techs for a cooldown period. It's during this period that my team wins the battle since V4 armour will eventually be smashed apart by Ay's weighted punches and Gai's Hirudora obliterates the V3 and finishes the job. Your team can do nothing but cower in Susanoo awaiting their inevitable doom.
I would also argue that Minato can teleport Susanoo away from Itachi leaving your team vulnerable.
So unless they can blitz and kill them off from the start they fail and they do so badly, but even that is impossible as Ay, who is by far the fastest person on this team, has no feat that lets him dash a straight 50m line and punch anyone on this team, especially Kabuto, without them being able to react. "Blitzing" Madara from less than 10 meters is not a feat that translates into blitzing from 50 meters away so I don't want to read that argument again.
Not once in this thread did I argue that Ay blitzes anyone off the bat. I made the starting distance 50m specifically so that there would be no blitzing.
You just listed a bunch of your team's abilities without specifying how they can be used to actually take out my team.
Mazo and Manda are too slow to touch anybody on Team Speed so I cannot see how they have any real effect in this battle, and Nagato can't properly control the Mazo. (Plus a single touch from Onoki would immobilize Manda 2, though I suppose that is technically against the rules.)
Bold is false. Rinnegan or having Senju/Uchiha's power lets you control it. And yes, Onoki immobilizing Manda is against the rules. And no, the summons have a very clear effect on this battle. Them being fast doesn't mean that they can consistently avoid widespread attacks such as the Mazo's lightning which is larger than a Mountain as shown when it destroyed Kitsuchi's jutsu and a island turtle size snake (the same island that dwarfed Hachibi) combined with the other attacks that the shinobi themselves will be using.
Then we have the fact that not a single person on this team can take out either summon. Good luck arguing that running around the battlefield is enough to survive.
First of all, it would have to actually hit. Minato can see the ground being torn up as the shockwave approaches them and very quickly react by teleporting his team to a safe distance before the shockwave hits, or spread his kunai around and see the shockwave coming as indicated by the kunai being tossed back.
:lol In all of Shinra Tensei's usages during Pain's fight against Naruto there has never ever been a shock wave that approaches someone. What happened with Nagato was obviously because Shinra Tensei ran through a bunch of trees.
Unless you are going to post where anyone on this team became able to anticipate techniques better than a perfect Sage who was getting his shit kicked in by Shinra Tensei there is no arguing that they anticipate it and dodge it. Even the Kunai thing is a weak strategy.
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-Repelled FRS yet Naruto below him didn't budge.
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-Repelled Naruto off Preta yet Preta himself didn't budge.
Now you didn't specify if this was focused or unfocused CST. I would like to point out that if you are talking about focused CST it will be extremely difficult to nail any of them. Nagato can't track 7 Gate Gai's movement speed so he would not know where to focus his CST unless Gai completely stopped moving, and he cannot track Ay's shunshin so he would only know where he was in the intervals between him using shunshin. It's also likely that Nagato's CST requires some sort of buildup considering that when Pain used it he had to deactivate the other Pains, so my team would sense something coming and move to a safe distance. Also, if you are talking about focused CST Nagato can only nail one of them (because my team won't be grouped together) leaving him vulnerable in the cooldown time.
There is no "focused" CST, at least depending on how focused we are talking here. There is only CST being used in a single direction instead of omnidirectional, and CST in one direction is still at least a fourth of the size of the leaf village. The bold doesn't matter. They will not be running at top speed every second of this fight nor can they anticipate Shinra Tensei nor can they even escape it's range even if they knew it was coming because they do not know when it will be released.
Nagato had to deactivate the other bodies because the other bodies draw too much power from him. That has nothing to do with build up. That's just so the other paths don't draw the necessary power for CST. Even if it only kills one of them it doesn't really matter. Nagato is safe inside of Susanoo and Team Speed losing even a single member, namely Ay or Minato, is pretty much the end for them.
CST (ST in general) only deals real damage to the target when they hit the ground, the damage from the initial force is minimal and can be tanked by their Kyubi cloaks considering mini-Katsuyus protected thousands of villagers from CST. The DB explains it. Bolded statement explains the first stage (when the force hits the target) and underlined statement is the second stage (when the target collides w/ the ground.)
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Shinra-tensei (All-Nature Repulsion).
Ninjutsu, Keke-genkai, offensive, defensive, close range.
Users:Nagato
Invisible hand of God, that repels anything in creation!
Pain Tendou uses this jutsu, utilizing the generated from the users hands repulsive (gravity) force to repel targets away. The number of targets that can be repelled and their size are irrelevant . In addition by stopping the utilization of other Pain paths the amount of chakra put in the jutsu, its strength and area of effect can be greatly increased. With one strike of its power entire Konoha no sato (Konoha village) was turned to smoldering ash. But after this jutsu has been triggered there is a small five second window it can't be used again. The originating repulsion force generated by the power of all creation”shinra obiki” (something that binds all together,so likely gravitation) forces its targets to collide together with a great force and put out additional damage, combined together with the initial force (shock wave) it puts up even more damage. Only those who can manipulate all chakra transformation properties (seishitsu) legendary “Rinnegan” wielders are allowed to posses this jutsu that has all rights to be called “crystally perfect”.
Picture: Its repulsion force is so strong that even ninjutsu and taijutsu are equally ineffective against this jutsu, with an unexpected discharge of the invisible force, it is very easy to catch opponents off guard .
So it seems that shinra tensei uses natural gravitational force, and only the one who has all chakra transformation (including yin-yang) can manipulate natural gravity field (shinra obiki).
P.S Sorry for mistakes English isn't his native language.
-If Gai is hit, Minato teleports him into the lake (where Minato would have placed a marker early on in the battle), so the water will slow him down and cushion his fall. Or, Gai summons his turtle in mid air and uses it as a launching pad to kick off in the other direction that he's being pushed.
-If Minato is hit, he just teleports into the water.
-If Ay is hit, Onoki lightens him to the point where he weighs zero kilograms. Ay will hit the ground with no damage because he weighs nothing. force=mass*acceleration and when he weighs zero, anything multiplied by zero is still zero. (Or Minato can just teleport him into the lake too.)
Not even possible in scenario 1 since Minato will need to do this remotely and cannot do so without Kyuubi cloaks. Meaning somebody still dies.
And like I said above in my previous posts to Haizaki already. An omni directional Shinra Tensei was enough to put down the Gama Trio when used by Pain let alone Nagato who's power is a tier above Pain's. A full power Shinra Tensei isn't needed to do serious damage to these guys or to kill them so everything regarding the cooldown goes right down the drain along with the teleportation strategy.
Weight and Mass aren't even the same thing. Onoki making him weigh less doesn't mean that he'll take no damage nor was it ever stated that Onoki's jutsu can make someone or something weigh zero kg.
So if Nagato even manages to nail any of them before Minato teleports his team to safety, the other teammate avoids damage and Nagato cannot use Deva techs for a cooldown period. It's during this period that my team wins the battle since V4 armour will eventually be smashed apart by Ay's weighted punches and Gai's Hirudora obliterates the V3 and finishes the job. Your team can do nothing but cower in Susanoo awaiting their inevitable doom.
Nope. You can punch a brick wall over and over again and never ever break it as you cannot even dent it, meaning punching it again adds on nothing. 0x10 is still 0. That would only make sense if Ay could damage V4 Susanoo, except he cannot even come close. Not when his best feat is punching a hole in a V2 Susanoo nor can Ay rapid punch Susanoo like Shinsuusenju did due to the nature of why Ay's physical attacks are as strong as they are, which would be because of his speed+his physical power.
I would also argue that Minato can teleport Susanoo away from Itachi leaving your team vulnerable.
Except the only thing that argument is based on is Gaara separating Madara from Susanoo, but that's a bad comparison since Gaara's Sand can separate limbs as well yet Hiraishin can't do that.
Yata is not allowed in any scenario. I updated S2 long ago.
-They can't consistently avoid Mountain Sized lightning blasts along with a Bijuu dwarfing snake's physical attacks.
-They can't avoid or anticipate Shinra Tensei in any measure.
-Kabuto has complete control of the ground they run on via Muki Tensei. He can easily warp the battlefield in a way that prevents them from being able to dash around at full speed.
-Kabuto can also warp the battlefield using Sawarabi no Mai. Kimimaro, who is several tiers below Kabuto's chakra when it comes to power and size, turned a significant portion of the area he fought Lee at into bones.
Team Speed literally does not stand a chance. The only viable victory strategy is a strategy that relies on Nagato using CST, which isn't needed to kill any of them as stated above.
Pain Paths are 6 Nagatos in 6 bodies. He controls them as if they are his body. Any feat Pain/Nagato Paths do, Nagato does better because he controls them remotely.
All of this is irrelevant because 8 Gates is restricted. We're talking about a guy who opens 7 Gates, launches a Jutsu that can't kill Kisame (whom can be killed by a sword) and fatigues himself later.
But neither of any Team Speed can tank the ST that one-shotted the 3 toads, so they get killed.
Except Ay didn't use his base speed. He used his V1 speed. He later used his full speed which Naruto dodged. You can take it up with Kishi. As a matter of fact, you don't need to be faster than someone to intercept him. A goal keeper can block a kicked ball that travels at 80 miles per hour, yet the goal keeper doesn't run half of that.
And once again, the op is talking about ET Nagato who fought KCM Naruto and Bee, not a wheel chair Nagato.
Except that isn't how Nagato's 6 Paths Jutsu works. He transmits huge Chakra signals per second, which is then distributed to each path at 1/6. He doesn't transmit his full Chakra at one go. It works exactly like a transmission tower; it sends electrical power and distributes it. The electrical company doesn't use up their electrical power at one go, but they distribute it. Nagato does the same thing with Chakra. So once again, you clearly fail to comprehend something as basic as this concept and deny it, despite being blatant stated Nagato's techniques are in a whole league than when he uses Pain.
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Not the same Nagato you said on a wheel chair. This Nagato takes flight then starts one-shotting Team Speed.
So you agree they can't move on air, if Nagato pulls them from air. Good. We're now on the same page. And what is Team Speed going to do when they're pulled on air by BT? I can explain it to you.
If Nagato flies on air, pulls Team Speed and they move their hands as you're saying, this is what will happen:
-Onoki tries to use Jinton, Nagato absorbs it then rips his soul out instantly.
-Ay tries to use Lariat on Nagato, Asura limbs restrain him as it did to Bee, then rips his soul off.
-Gai tries to use Hirudora, ST repels it and sends Gai down on the groun; since he's fatigued from 7 Gates, Nagato pulls him yet again and rips soul off.
-Only Minato survives due to FTG, but he gets curb-stomped later.
This is what will happen.
ST was shown to be pointed from any angle.
Neither Itachi, Bee or Naruto or 6 Tailed Kyubi moved in the manner you're implying Minato or his kunai can, so stop lying. Minato throws a kunai, core pulls it and Minato has nowhere to teleport. You're pulling implications that are illogically impossible and never happened on the manga. It's getting repetitive that I'm explaining the obvious. Kunai has a mass, core gravity pulls it regardless if Chakra Arms extend it. That and Minato has never shown to throw it greater distance than CT's range. Last time I'm saying this:
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I would like you to take a very deep breath, look at the scan and count how many circles which represent the size of a mountain. If you can get me a feat from Minato with physical strength that can throw a kunai beyond that range, I'll concede; if not then you lost. Don't reply to me until you get me a scan of that feat. I'm not interested in how you believe Chakra Arms will do something it has never canonically done. *_*
- Oh, it was just to exemplify what plot devices are, not saying they are fighting 8 gated Gai cause all 5 are dead before the match begins. Btw, 99% of the narutoverse can be killed with a sword (it it cuts the character's head), so I don't see the point of that remark.
- Funny, cause I don't remember anyone (toads included) being killed by a Shinra Tensei in battle (excluding the nameless shinobi when Konoha was destroyed of course)
- See? That "you can take it up with Kishi" is you saying "I don't know what the **** happened, just go with it", which means that KCM Naruto is not faster than A, and that A isn't necessarily the fastest shinobi. Thanks. So you're saying that the goalkeeper moving at a lower speed will intercept a ball traveling at 80 mph, but the same goalkeeper moving faster will not intercept the same ball moving at the same speed from the same starting point? yeah ... don't strain yourself, just admit it was a plot device to make the main char look oh-so-****ing-fast and let it go.
- Until OP confirms which Nagato is it, discussing the feats of red haired Nagato or crippled one is useless, so I'm going to skip those. Also, that was said about the techniques of red haired nagato, not the decrepit one. Just a couple of comments on the transmission thingy: If he doesn't transmit his full chakra, then the pawns are not getting "1/6 of his chakra", which in turn it means the original body's technique won't be 6 times as powerful. Also I would like to know what "huge" means to you, cause I don't think he can transmit "huge" amounts repeatedly to keep control of his bodies without exhausting himself in a couple of seconds, unless he somehow can constantly regenerate "huge" amounts of chakra. Best explaination is that he sends some of his chakra, which gets splitted in 6 and in turn enables him to control the bodies and do rinnegan techniques at a lowered level (which I did agree to that if you recall) but by no means they are 6 times as strong when used by the original.
- Always said the same, I don't know why you brought speed as a counter to BT in the first place ... anyways, again with a feat list of red haired Nagato. Also, I seriously wonder Asura will restrain something that destroyed Madara's Susanoo in the first place, but anyways ...
- If Bee's sword was thrown from the front aiming at the beak of the bird it would be different. Since it was thrown from the side, it clear that the ST was cast to the side of the bird, not to the front and magically dodging the beak part to deflect the sword.
- Actually, it did. Naruto formed the Rasenshuriken with his chakra hands (not to mention that he uses his physical hand to throw it), and it wasn't disturbed in the slightest by CT, which means there is no reason to believe that Minato's chakra hands would be pulled either. Never said Minato needed to throw the kunai, just move it with his hand (which as I've just said it's possible). So, to sum up:
1- Chakra hands have been shown interacting with physical objects countless times (when they grab someone, when naruto used to pull the rock away from him, etc), which means the chakra hands can indeed grab a marked kunai
2- Chakra hands hasn't been shown affected by CT or BT for that matter (both when Naruto used the hand to protect himself from the rock and when he latter used them to cast Rasenshuriken) so there's no reason to believe they will be affected by CT's gravity when it was proven otherwise.
So in the end, Minato can grab a kunai, pull it away from the CT core, teleport to it and repeat that process as many times as needed.
Bold is false. Rinnegan or having Senju/Uchiha's power lets you control it. And yes, Onoki immobilizing Manda is against the rules. And no, the summons have a very clear effect on this battle. Them being fast doesn't mean that they can consistently avoid widespread attacks such as the Mazo's lightning which is larger than a Mountain as shown when it destroyed Kitsuchi's jutsu and a island turtle size snake (the same island that dwarfed Hachibi) combined with the other attacks that the shinobi themselves will be using.
Then we have the fact that not a single person on this team can take out either summon. Good luck arguing that running around the battlefield is enough to survive.
:lol In all of Shinra Tensei's usages during Pain's fight against Naruto there has never ever been a shock wave that approaches someone. What happened with Nagato was obviously because Shinra Tensei ran through a bunch of trees.
Unless you are going to post where anyone on this team became able to anticipate techniques better than a perfect Sage who was getting his shit kicked in by Shinra Tensei there is no arguing that they anticipate it and dodge it. Even the Kunai thing is a weak strategy.
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-Repelled FRS yet Naruto below him didn't budge.
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-Repelled Naruto off Preta yet Preta himself didn't budge.
Minato can put a clone in front of him, and when he sees the clone fly backwards he'll know Shinra Tensei is being used and react to it by teleporting outside its AOE.
There is no "focused" CST, at least depending on how focused we are talking here. There is only CST being used in a single direction instead of omnidirectional, and CST in one direction is still at least a fourth of the size of the leaf village.
nor can they anticipate Shinra Tensei nor can they even escape it's range even if they knew it was coming because they do not know when it will be released.
Nagato had to deactivate the other bodies because the other bodies draw too much power from him. That has nothing to do with build up. That's just so the other paths don't draw the necessary power for CST. Even if it only kills one of them it doesn't really matter. Nagato is safe inside of Susanoo and Team Speed losing even a single member, namely Ay or Minato, is pretty much the end for them.
Nope. The moment Nagato uses Shinra Tensei, it's pretty much over because it gives my team a five second window of opportunity to attack.
-Nagato uses Shinra Tensei on Ay/Gai/Minato's clone being used as a decoy.
-Ay/Gai/Minato's clone gets sent flying back.
-Ay or Gai (whichever one wasn't hit with ST) rushes towards Susanoo until they are within about 10 feet of it.
-Minato teleports himself or a clone to Ay or Gai's location, and tags Susanoo with a marker.
-Minato then teleports his team back to a safe distance.
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(Ay and Gai are interchangeable in this image)
Now that Susanoo is tagged, Minato can teleport Susanoo (with Itachi in it) to the bottom of the lake where he would previously have placed a marker, leaving Nagato and Kabuto exposed. At this point Nagato will have recovered his ability to use ST so to wrap it up...
1. My team creates a diversion to force Nagato to use ST again. Food Cart Destroyer works. So does Ay rushing in. My personal favorite option is opening a space-time barrier above them connected to the marker in the lake so that a shit ton of water pours out on top of them.
2. Nagato repels the attack with Shinra Tensei.
3. Gai finishes the job with Hirudora, taking out Nagato and Kabuto in one fell swoop.
I am talking about Scen 2 here, but it would be possible in any scenario as long as Minato's teammates are marked, he can teleport to them and then teleport them somewhere else.
And like I said above in my previous posts to Haizaki already. An omni directional Shinra Tensei was enough to put down the Gama Trio when used by Pain let alone Nagato who's power is a tier above Pain's. A full power Shinra Tensei isn't needed to do serious damage to these guys or to kill them so everything regarding the cooldown goes right down the drain along with the teleportation strategy.
-Where is your proof that a ST used in one direction will be any more powerful than an omnidirectional one?
-Where is it stated that Nagato's power is a tier above Pain's?
-Even a five second cooldown after a regular ST is enough time to tag Susanoo.
Regular ST's aren't killing anyone on my team due to their methods of avoiding hitting the ground (Gai jumping off his turtle, Onoki lightening Ay, and Minato teleporting himself or his teammates into the lake), and CST is suicide for your team if Nagato uses it because then there is nothing your team can do to stop Minato from tagging Susanoo, and then seperating Itachi from his teammates.
Weight and Mass aren't even the same thing. Onoki making him weigh less doesn't mean that he'll take no damage nor was it ever stated that Onoki's jutsu can make someone or something weigh zero kg.
My bad, I realized LB/WB doesn't change the target's weight, it changes their gravity. At any rate Onoki can just lighten Raikage to the point where he can fly so he flies upwards and never hits the ground.
Nope. You can punch a brick wall over and over again and never ever break it as you cannot even dent it, meaning punching it again adds on nothing. 0x10 is still 0. That would only make sense if Ay could damage V4 Susanoo, except he cannot even come close. Not when his best feat is punching a hole in a V2 Susanoo nor can Ay rapid punch Susanoo like Shinsuusenju did due to the nature of why Ay's physical attacks are as strong as they are, which would be because of his speed+his physical power.
This is terrible logic because one fist from Shinsuusenju does not do anything close to damaging Madara's PS but enough punches will annihilate it. Same logic can be applied here so even if Ay's hits cause minimal damage enough of them in the same spot will break through. And Susanoo cannot heal itself so enough hits will add up and break through.
Regardless, it will take a LOT of hits and I realize this is a bad strategy so I will abandon it.
Except the only thing that argument is based on is Gaara separating Madara from Susanoo, but that's a bad comparison since Gaara's Sand can separate limbs as well yet Hiraishin can't do that.
-They can't consistently avoid Mountain Sized lightning blasts along with a Bijuu dwarfing snake's physical attacks.
-They can't avoid or anticipate Shinra Tensei in any measure.
-Kabuto has complete control of the ground they run on via Muki Tensei. He can easily warp the battlefield in a way that prevents them from being able to dash around at full speed.
-Kabuto can also warp the battlefield using Sawarabi no Mai. Kimimaro, who is several tiers below Kabuto's chakra when it comes to power and size, turned a significant portion of the area he fought Lee at into bones.
Team Speed literally does not stand a chance. The only viable victory strategy is a strategy that relies on Nagato using CST, which isn't needed to kill any of them as stated above.
-Agreed with the summons.
-Minato can anticipate Shinra Tensei via the clone method.
-In what way exactly, would Kabuto rearrange the terrain so that they can't run around at full speed? At any rate my team can move around on top of the lake where Muki Tensei can't affect them.
-Sawarabi no Mai turns the battlefield into a bone forest, making it easy for any of my team to anticipate Shinra Tensei when they see the bones being destroyed.
Team Speed can definitely win if they play it smart. All it takes is Nagato using Shinra Tensei once; the five second cool down gives them enough time to reach Susanoo and tag it with a FTG seal. Without ST there is nothing they can do to stop Ay/Gai from closing the distance if they are initially at a range of 25m:
-Magatamas and Amaterasu are dodged.
-Sawarabi no Mae's activation speed is not fast enough to intercept them.
-Muki Tensei formations are either smashed through or they go around it.
-White Rage's activation speed is not fast enough to intercept them.
