Team Speed vs Team Zombie

[Tyrance sasuke]

Team Speed can definitely win if they play it smart. All it takes is Nagato using Shinra Tensei once; the five second cool down gives them enough time to reach Susanoo and tag it with a FTG seal. Without ST there is nothing they can do to stop Ay/Gai from closing the distance if they are initially at a range of 25m:

-Magatamas and Amaterasu are dodged.
-Sawarabi no Mae's activation speed is not fast enough to intercept them.
-Muki Tensei formations are either smashed through or they go around it.
-White Rage's activation speed is not fast enough to intercept them.

Muki tensei could only be heated through by enton.
There is no saying physical attacks would break through it, considering enton makes the flames, intangible.
- yasaka magatama is dodged but amaterasu is not since it seems to stop space for the moment, as obito couldnt let it phase through. Raikage has a reaction speed faster than light, so he dodged it by watching the bleeding. Guy doesnt necessarily have that reaction speed. According to science if an object goes faster than light, it can bend space, same case with A. Guy will get caught.
- you're forgetting the fact, WR is natural light, it travels at the more than the speed of light because kabuto amplified it by combining the natural energy with his chakra. The activation process delay can be replaced with amaterasu wall of flames to deter team speed's movement, including FTG, wouldnt work inside the wall since the flames bend space.
-Ftg has never shown capable of transfering chakra avatars itself, so that stands to reason, not to mention itachi wouldnt stand there simply, he would hand combat minato before he can teleport him.

 

[KidGamer65]

Minato can put a clone in front of him, and when he sees the clone fly backwards he'll know Shinra Tensei is being used and react to it by teleporting outside its AOE.

That doesn't work for the rest of his teammates, especially if they are spread out in different directions like you claimed. Not to mention it's almost a waste of chakra, luckily Minato has Kurama.

Sure they can. The battle won't last more than 5-10 minutes. They can run circles around Team Zombie at ideally a range of about 25 meters.

This literally doesn't make any sense. Who cares how long the battle lasts? It's physically impossible for them to run full speed the entire match because their full speed is Shunshin. Shunshin is a burst of speed. Not a continuous movement. That simple.

Minato can anticipate it through the clone method.

Addressed.

Nope. The moment Nagato uses Shinra Tensei, it's pretty much over because it gives my team a five second window of opportunity to attack.

-Nagato uses Shinra Tensei on Ay/Gai/Minato's clone being used as a decoy.
-Ay/Gai/Minato's clone gets sent flying back.
-Ay or Gai (whichever one wasn't hit with ST) rushes towards Susanoo until they are within about 10 feet of it.
-Minato teleports himself or a clone to Ay or Gai's location, and tags Susanoo with a marker.
-Minato then teleports his team back to a safe distance.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

(Ay and Gai are interchangeable in this image)

Now that Susanoo is tagged, Minato can teleport Susanoo (with Itachi in it) to the bottom of the lake where he would previously have placed a marker, leaving Nagato and Kabuto exposed. At this point Nagato will have recovered his ability to use ST so to wrap it up...

:lol :lol :lol :lol So now we've gone from a large cooldown is enough to Team Speed being able to settle the match in 5 seconds?

-Decoy? For what? And why would Nagato only use Shinra Tensei on a single person when it's already been established your team is going to be within close range unless they need to dodge White Rage? Your scenario already fails here because if ST will be used it will be to repel dangerous attacks or damage the entire team. Nobody on this team has any dangerous attacks while Susanoo is up in it's full power.

So the rest never happens. They can't recover from Shinra Tensei and come tag Susanoo in 5 seconds. If Minato tries to approach and tag Susanoo by himself Muki Tensei is enough to form an omnidirectional wall or enough to have the ground itself attack Minato or even Sawarabi no Mai, forcing him to warp away.

Then we have the fact that if Susanoo is warped EVERYBODY inside of it goes with. Not just Itachi. That doesn't make any sense. That's like saying Minato can warp a box or a bag or a pouch but leave the contents behind.

1. My team creates a diversion to force Nagato to use ST again. Food Cart Destroyer works. So does Ay rushing in. My personal favorite option is opening a space-time barrier above them connected to the marker in the lake so that a shit ton of water pours out on top of them.
2. Nagato repels the attack with Shinra Tensei.
3. Gai finishes the job with Hirudora, taking out Nagato and Kabuto in one fell swoop.

You're gonna have to miss me with the fanfiction-esque argumentation. That is literally something you made up. ST Barrier is used by Minato using a Kunai to open a space time barrier in front of him, which then warps whatever is sucked in to another location. He has never shown nor been implied to be able to open barriers wherever he wants and bring things from other locations to his location using said barrier.

-FCD does not work. Why would Nagato have to use Shinra Tensei to stop a toad that Susanoo tanks? Then we have multiple offensive attacks of their own to then disable or kill the toad afterwards.

-Ay rushing in does not work. What can Ay do to Susanoo? Literally nothing. All he does is leave himself open for an attack when he stops to punch Susanoo and fails to do anything to it.

I am talking about Scen 2 here, but it would be possible in any scenario as long as Minato's teammates are marked, he can teleport to them and then teleport them somewhere else.

Do you expect me to believe that Minato can get hit, teleport to BOTH his teammates and teleport them to safety before they hit the ground? When being launched by a force that sent 3 Bijuu sized creatures from the center of the village to the outskirts in seconds? By a force that sent Hinata flying to the ground not even a second after being hit.

-Where is your proof that a ST used in one direction will be any more powerful than an omnidirectional one?

Common sense and physics. More force in a single direction=More damage in that direction than there would be if there were less force.

-Where is it stated that Nagato's power is a tier above Pain's?

You must be registered for see links

"completely different". That is at least a tier worth of difference.

-Even a five second cooldown after a regular ST is enough time to tag Susanoo.

Addressed.

Regular ST's aren't killing anyone on my team due to their methods of avoiding hitting the ground (Gai jumping off his turtle, Onoki lightening Ay, and Minato teleporting himself or his teammates into the lake), and CST is suicide for your team if Nagato uses it because then there is nothing your team can do to stop Minato from tagging Susanoo, and then seperating Itachi from his teammates.

My bad, I realized LB/WB doesn't change the target's weight, it changes their gravity. At any rate Onoki can just lighten Raikage to the point where he can fly so he flies upwards and never hits the ground.

This is terrible logic because one fist from Shinsuusenju does not do anything close to damaging Madara's PS but enough punches will annihilate it. Same logic can be applied here so even if Ay's hits cause minimal damage enough of them in the same spot will break through. And Susanoo cannot heal itself so enough hits will add up and break through.

Regardless, it will take a LOT of hits and I realize this is a bad strategy so I will abandon it.

:lol What in the world are you even talking about? Did you even read the entirety of that paragraph before you responded? Because I clearly stated that the only way your strategy would make sense is if Ay could rapid punch Susanoo like SS did to Madara's Susanoo, except he can't and it's not because it requires a lot of hits. It's because it's literally impossible for Ay to do what Shinsuusenju did. The only reason SS broke through Madara's Susanoo is because it used several dozen fists hitting at the same exact time several times over. Ay is one hit, then he has to retreat to use his full speed punch again.

Perfect, so Minato just teleports away Susanoo with Itachi in it leaving the other team members vulnerable.

Nope.

-Agreed with the summons.
-Minato can anticipate Shinra Tensei via the clone method.
-In what way exactly, would Kabuto rearrange the terrain so that they can't run around at full speed? At any rate my team can move around on top of the lake where Muki Tensei can't affect them.
-Sawarabi no Mai turns the battlefield into a bone forest, making it easy for any of my team to anticipate Shinra Tensei when they see the bones being destroyed.

-Addressed.
-Addressed.
-Spikes all across the battlefield, creating either giant holes in the ground or causing it to raise up like Onoki's doton does. Basically anything that causes the ground to not be flat all across. Bold is a bad strategy since they need to come close to fight.

And it lets Kabuto merge with the bones and launch sneak attacks. Only Minato can sense chakra. Then we have the fact that the bones won't be there forever if ST is being used so this is a bad strategy.

Team Speed can definitely win if they play it smart. All it takes is Nagato using Shinra Tensei once; the five second cool down gives them enough time to reach Susanoo and tag it with a FTG seal. Without ST there is nothing they can do to stop Ay/Gai from closing the distance if they are initially at a range of 25m:

-Magatamas and Amaterasu are dodged.
-Sawarabi no Mae's activation speed is not fast enough to intercept them.
-Muki Tensei formations are either smashed through or they go around it.
-White Rage's activation speed is not fast enough to intercept them.

Your entire win strategy banks on an assumption about Minato's ability that hasn't been shown or implied to make sense, and even then it is flawed. Team Speed doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Beans2]

That doesn't work for the rest of his teammates, especially if they are spread out in different directions like you claimed. Not to mention it's almost a waste of chakra, luckily Minato has Kurama.

Minato is the only one that needs to anticipate it bc he can teleport his teammates due to kyubi cloaks. Plus KCM Minato is Edo so chakra not an issue

This literally doesn't make any sense. Who cares how long the battle lasts? It's physically impossible for them to run full speed the entire match because their full speed is Shunshin. Shunshin is a burst of speed. Not a continuous movement. That simple.

Doesn't matter, because Nagato can't detect Ay's position the instant he stops moving. He has no sensing feat that lets him do that. Ay stops for a second, and then he's off again before Nagato can say "Shinra Tensei"

Addressed.

Not really

:lol :lol :lol :lol So now we've gone from a large cooldown is enough to Team Speed being able to settle the match in 5 seconds?

Yes bc my strategy changed you fool. I was previously arguing for them smashing through Susanoo, but now I'm arguing for Minato teleporting away Susanoo which takes much less time

-Decoy? For what? And why would Nagato only use Shinra Tensei on a single person when it's already been established your team is going to be within close range unless they need to dodge White Rage? Your scenario already fails here because if ST will be used it will be to repel dangerous attacks or damage the entire team. Nobody on this team has any dangerous attacks while Susanoo is up in it's full power.

Nagato is very liberal with his use of Shinra Tensei. Does not take much to provoke him into using it

-repelled Amaterasu from his body w/ it when he could have absorbed it with Preta.
-Used it on Hinata multiple times when he could have handled her w/ taijutsu
-uses it for surprise attacks which have no defensive purpose [

You must be registered for see links

]

All it takes is Ay or Gai to stop moving for a second and charge in. Nagato will see it as an opportunity to attack and use ST on them. From nagato's perspective he is safely inside Susanoo and can pick them off one by one so if he sees an opportunity he will take it, not realizing it is a feint. Or, Gai uses Hirudora and Nagato repels it. (Like you said, full intel does not mean that they know every detail of a tech. They don't know that Susanoo would tank anyway so why risk it?)

So the rest never happens. They can't recover from Shinra Tensei and come tag Susanoo in 5 seconds. If Minato tries to approach and tag Susanoo by himself Muki Tensei is enough to form an omnidirectional wall or enough to have the ground itself attack Minato or even Sawarabi no Mai, forcing him to warp away.

My argument never was for Minato to approach and tag Susanoo by himself so you wasted your time with this.

Then we have the fact that if Susanoo is warped EVERYBODY inside of it goes with. Not just Itachi. That doesn't make any sense. That's like saying Minato can warp a box or a bag or a pouch but leave the contents behind.

he contents of a bag will be physically touching the bag. We see that Susanoo must be made hollow on the inside in order to accomodate others inside Susanoo

You must be registered for see links

Unless Nagato and Kabuto are literally touching the perimeter of Susanoo there is no reason they will be teleported away. A more accurate analogy is an eskimo and an igloo. Minato can teleport away the igloo but leave the eskimo inside.

You're gonna have to miss me with the fanfiction-esque argumentation. That is literally something you made up. ST Barrier is used by Minato using a Kunai to open a space time barrier in front of him, which then warps whatever is sucked in to another location. He has never shown nor been implied to be able to open barriers wherever he wants and bring things from other locations to his location using said barrier.

-Minato throws kunai above them
-Teleports to the lake where he opens a portal
-due to the nature of gravity the water will flow through the space time barrier to another portal that he opens up above Nagato and Kabuto.

It's simple. Not sure what you don't understand here.

-FCD does not work. Why would Nagato have to use Shinra Tensei to stop a toad that Susanoo tanks? Then we have multiple offensive attacks of their own to then disable or kill the toad afterwards.

Susanoo is already teleported away you fool

-Ay rushing in does not work. What can Ay do to Susanoo? Literally nothing. All he does is leave himself open for an attack when he stops to punch Susanoo and fails to do anything to it.

Susanoo has already been teleported into the lake

Do you expect me to believe that Minato can get hit, teleport to BOTH his teammates and teleport them to safety before they hit the ground? When being launched by a force that sent 3 Bijuu sized creatures from the center of the village to the outskirts in seconds? By a force that sent Hinata flying to the ground not even a second after being hit.

What is so unreasonable about this statement. Teleportation takes zero seconds. He will also know in anticipation if his teammates get hit due to seeing his clone fly backwards and know ST is in use. And I am specifically arguing Scen2 anyways.

Common sense and physics. More force in a single direction=More damage in that direction than there would be if there were less force.

Where is your proof? Nothing suggests that using Shinra Tensei in a single direction is associated in any way with the amount of force Nagato chooses to use. Direction and strength are seperate elements of the jutsu that have shown no relation to each other. "Common sense" is not an argument. I'd actually like to bring up a quote of yours that I find very relevant right now

Common sense can be used here if it's common sense. But what you are using isn't common sense. You are using flawed logic and throwing the tag "common sense' on it as it will somehow make it valid.

You must be registered for see links

"completely different". That is at least a tier worth of difference.

While I don't think that statement should be completely disregarded I am very skeptical of Naruto's authority on the subject. He had never seen Nagato in battle before that point so his statement that Nagato's power is "completely different" is at best, speculation. Also, you cannot quantify the amount of difference it would make to his jutsu to reach a conclusion that it would damage someone when it would not normally. That is like saying "Jiraiya's yomi numa was able to sink a large snake summon, so Sage Mode Jiraiya with a kyubi cloak would be able to make a swamp large enough to sink Manda II."

Addressed.

You must be registered for see images

Address line is blank

:lol What in the world are you even talking about? Did you even read the entirety of that paragraph before you responded? Because I clearly stated that the only way your strategy would make sense is if Ay could rapid punch Susanoo like SS did to Madara's Susanoo, except he can't and it's not because it requires a lot of hits. It's because it's literally impossible for Ay to do what Shinsuusenju did. The only reason SS broke through Madara's Susanoo is because it used several dozen fists hitting at the same exact time several times over. Ay is one hit, then he has to retreat to use his full speed punch again.

I read your paragraph and it's wrong. How rapidly Ay can punch Susanoo is irrelevant because Susanoo cannot heal/repair itself. Same with how rapidly SS hit Susanoo. I can throw a baseball at a glass window and crack it badly. Then I can throw another baseball at the same spot on the glass window and shatter it. The time elapsed between the two baseballs is irrelevant, it could be five seconds or five hours later and the result would be the same because the glass window did not magically get stronger in those five hours.

Nope.

You must be registered for see images

-Addressed.
-Addressed.
-Spikes all across the battlefield, creating either giant holes in the ground or causing it to raise up like Onoki's doton does. Basically anything that causes the ground to not be flat all across. Bold is a bad strategy since they need to come close to fight.

Addressed, addressed, and an uneven surface obviously does not effect them because they can run on the sides of walls or upside down due to putting chakra on their feet. Spikes get blasted through and larger spikes they go around. They can still be close on the surface of the lake if your team remains on the beach, only if your team retreats into the forest will the lake not be an option.

And it lets Kabuto merge with the bones and launch sneak attacks. Only Minato can sense chakra. Then we have the fact that the bones won't be there forever if ST is being used so this is a bad strategy.

Only Kimimaro has shown the ability to merge with his bones, Kabuto's body does not have the right skeletal structure.

Your entire win strategy banks on an assumption about Minato's ability that hasn't been shown or implied to make sense, and even then it is flawed. Team Speed doesn't stand a chance.

Teleporting Susanoo? Uhhh that has been done in canon

You must be registered for see links

 

[KidGamer65]

Minato is the only one that needs to anticipate it bc he can teleport his teammates due to kyubi cloaks. Plus KCM Minato is Edo so chakra not an issue

Only in Scenario 2. Which means this strategy fails hard in scenario 1. That and it just fails hard altogether based on this scan.

You must be registered for see links

Doesn't matter, because Nagato can't detect Ay's position the instant he stops moving. He has no sensing feat that lets him do that. Ay stops for a second, and then he's off again before Nagato can say "Shinra Tensei"

Umm what? First of all Sensing allows you to sense someone's presence no matter where they are. Following their movements is a different thing altogether. Second of all we've seen how consistent Shunshin can be used and it doesn't align with any of this. Then we have the fact that Ay stopping at all means his position will be sensed. This has literally nothing to do with sensing feats. The reason why Nagato wouldn't be able to follow Ay is because he is moving. If he's not moving he'll sense his position. What you are saying is akin to me saying that Sasuke won't see Ay the moment he isn't moving because he's so fast. lol)

Whether or not he can evade Shinra Tensei after stopping is the question here and you pretty much don't have any real evidence to support that being possible considering Ay can't predict Shinra Tensei, meaning he'll have to run indefinitely to avoid it, which is impossible.

Nagato "saying" Shinra Tensei isn't necessary and doesn't even happen on several occasions.

Not really

Yes really.

Nagato is very liberal with his use of Shinra Tensei. Does not take much to provoke him into using it

-repelled Amaterasu from his body w/ it when he could have absorbed it with Preta.
-Used it on Hinata multiple times when he could have handled her w/ taijutsu
-uses it for surprise attacks which have no defensive purpose [

You must be registered for see links

]

Bad examples considering Nagato didn't have the support of two other people here.

All it takes is Ay or Gai to stop moving for a second and charge in. Nagato will see it as an opportunity to attack and use ST on them. From nagato's perspective he is safely inside Susanoo and can pick them off one by one so if he sees an opportunity he will take it, not realizing it is a feint. Or, Gai uses Hirudora and Nagato repels it. (Like you said, full intel does not mean that they know every detail of a tech. They don't know that Susanoo would tank anyway so why risk it?)

@bold: Itachi blocked a mountain destroying bolt of lightning with a Susanoo inferior to his strongest one. He's not going to have Nagato expose himself for a giant mass of air pressure used by Gai. Literally no reason for Nagato to use Shinra Tensei to repel attacks that would bounce of Susanoo nor is there any reason for him to rely on Shinra Tensei when he has:

-Kabuto's various attacks.
-Susanoo for close range attacks.

My argument never was for Minato to approach and tag Susanoo by himself so you wasted your time with this.

Except it really doesn't matter whether or not he approaches by himself. Nagato and Kabuto's justu make it impossible for him or the others to do anything and Susanoo prevents them from being hurt at all.

he contents of a bag will be physically touching the bag. We see that Susanoo must be made hollow on the inside in order to accomodate others inside Susanoo

You must be registered for see links

Unless Nagato and Kabuto are literally touching the perimeter of Susanoo there is no reason they will be teleported away. A more accurate analogy is an eskimo and an igloo. Minato can teleport away the igloo but leave the eskimo inside.

No, all this means is that the inside of Susanoo isn't solid enough to prevent other people from being inside. It being hollow is one of the worst arguments I have ever heard. It is not an igloo. It is a bunch of chakra formed for defensive purposes. Why in the world would it be hollow? People can be in a tank of water and still be able to move around, yet the inside is clearly not hollow. Same thing with Susanoo. So no, there is no reason to believe that Minato can warp Susanoo but leave the people inside.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see links

Not hollow. Not even close to being hollow nor would it have to be hollow.

-Minato throws kunai above them
-Teleports to the lake where he opens a portal
-due to the nature of gravity the water will flow through the space time barrier to another portal that he opens up above Nagato and Kabuto.


It's simple. Not sure what you don't understand here.

What is he going to do? Dive into the lake and open a portal? Because that is the only way this nonsense strategy is going to work. Not to mention this doesn't tell me how much water is going to be sucked in cons Not like it matters since the water will wash onto Susanoo and do literally nothing at all. If you are going to use unorthodox strategies they should actually do something in the end.

Susanoo is already teleported away you fool

According to what argument? Not yours.

Susanoo has already been teleported into the lake

:lol

What is so unreasonable about this statement. Teleportation takes zero seconds. He will also know in anticipation if his teammates get hit due to seeing his clone fly backwards and know ST is in use. And I am specifically arguing Scen2 anyways.

Minato's reaction to initiate each teleportation is not zero seconds combined with Pain/Nagato's ability to shift the trajectory of his jutsu so that they go towards the ground instead of being sent flying on a straight path makes this strategy a bust.

You must be registered for see links

Where is your proof? Nothing suggests that using Shinra Tensei in a single direction is associated in any way with the amount of force Nagato chooses to use. Direction and strength are seperate elements of the jutsu that have shown no relation to each other. "Common sense" is not an argument. I'd actually like to bring up a quote of yours that I find very relevant right now

Except this is literally common sense. You not being able to see that has nothing to do with me or any of my oh so famous quotes. :lol Once again I have to question if you actually read a word I stated considering I stated what I'm about to state in literally a single sentence only for you to not read it and ask for proof of basic scientific fact.

More force in a single direction=More damage in that direction than there would be if there were less force.

Where did I state that using Shinra Tensei in a single direction makes it stronger than using it omnidirectionally? Nowhere. I said using the same amount of force in a single direction yields more damage than spreading that same amount of force in 4 directions. I could go into the physics of why that is true but that should be common sense.

What's funny about this nonsense is that this is what everybody is referring to when they talk about area of effect attacks being "weaker" than focused attacks and when they refer to a "focused CST" but now for some reason you're sitting here asking for proof like you weren't just talking about a focused CST 3 posts ago. :lol

While I don't think that statement should be completely disregarded I am very skeptical of Naruto's authority on the subject. He had never seen Nagato in battle before that point so his statement that Nagato's power is "completely different" is at best, speculation. Also, you cannot quantify the amount of difference it would make to his jutsu to reach a conclusion that it would damage someone when it would not normally. That is like saying "Jiraiya's yomi numa was able to sink a large snake summon, so Sage Mode Jiraiya with a kyubi cloak would be able to make a swamp large enough to sink Manda II."

Lmao we're not going to do this. Statements like these are in the Manga for a reason and I will never understand why people on this site think they can get away with attempting to discredit said statement. Naruto fought against Pain and then fought against Nagato. Obviously he would know the difference in power between the two. Fighting Nagato beforehand is irrelevant, so this really doesn't even make sense regardless.

The rest is also a mismatched comparison. I never quantified the amount of difference. I only said it's a tier stronger, which is almost exactly what completely different would imply. The Jiraiya example is weak considering I never said Nagato went from doing X to doing Y. I only said his jutsu are much stronger.

I read your paragraph and it's wrong. How rapidly Ay can punch Susanoo is irrelevant because Susanoo cannot heal/repair itself. Same with how rapidly SS hit Susanoo. I can throw a baseball at a glass window and crack it badly. Then I can throw another baseball at the same spot on the glass window and shatter it. The time elapsed between the two baseballs is irrelevant, it could be five seconds or five hours later and the result would be the same because the glass window did not magically get stronger in those five hours.

Bold is irrelevant. Susanoo needing to repair itself is irrelevant because it doesn't take damage at all once again. Your example is literally 100% irrelevant because the window gets cracked. Susanoo does not get damaged, once again. Lmao do you mind actually addressing the above this time around? Because you clearly didn't read it properly.

Addressed, addressed, and an uneven surface obviously does not effect them because they can run on the sides of walls or upside down due to putting chakra on their feet. Spikes get blasted through and larger spikes they go around. They can still be close on the surface of the lake if your team remains on the beach, only if your team retreats into the forest will the lake not be an option.

Shunshin is a burst of speed. There is no changing direction unless they stop, meaning they have to stop each time they encounter something they can't run straight over. So yes, it does affect them.

Only Kimimaro has shown the ability to merge with his bones, Kabuto's body does not have the right skeletal structure.

Yeah, you made this up. Kabuto has Kimimaro's Kekkei Genkai which is what made his body like that. He also has every ability Kimimaro has ever displayed.

Okay, Kabuto's technique, Den'ien'ei (den-i-en-ei, to make the kana clear), says he infused himself with the cells of each member of the Sound Five, allowing him to use Attack of the Twin Demons; by infusing himself with their cells, he gained the ability to freely use their jutsu, talents, and kekkei genkai. It says that he uses Attack of the Twin Demons to manifest their upper torsos from his own torso, which allows him move independantly while unleashing their skills, so he can fight and move strategically at the same time. This gives him access to a stunning array of abilities.

You must be registered for see links

Teleporting Susanoo? Uhhh that has been done in canon

You must be registered for see links

:lol Like I said, nothing but an assumption based on nothing. Susanoo was teleported and look what happened to it's contents. They followed suit. So where has this been done in canon again?