Team Sannin vs Team Kazekage

[Stick]

Team sannin with little diff

 

[Hafiz Dembos]

Team sannin with little diff

=D=D=D=D. Hohohoho. You are the best joker here man!

 

[AGoodBoy]

Really? Toads against waves of heavy gold dust that could give a tailed beast a hard time?
Sitting on toads leaves the sannins exposed to aerial attacks like sand hail and a larger variation of the iron sand world order with the latter very dangerous on a large scale which could easily impale the toads and leave them unable to fight and possibly dead. Now for you to reach the conclusion that the kages cannot break genjutsu is not so logical, the only frightening genjutsu they have is the one performed by the 2 sage frogs and we all know it takes time to perform and they need to concentrate in order to perform it which means totally staying out of the fight. we all know orochimaru and tsunade cannot hold all three kazekages back by themselves, that is if they decide to attack directly but gaara can easily attack from different directions including the ground and that will make them unable to do that.
The swamp of the underworld, hmmm... last time i checked it was not fast at sinking and could not sink thatose huge snakes fast despite their weight, Gaara controls the ground he will take to the air along with the others just like he did against kimimaro( he sensed the bones coming and made it up in time).

Now about the combos( water bullet, fire and all that) you are right when you say the kazekages will be on the defensive but seeing that only gaara can take care of defense and also attack along with the other kages at the same time that will be no problem. Fire cannot burn sand even amaterasu and c3's heat could not and water does nothing to gaara's sand( I guess you are one of the people who believe it does).

You must be delusional if you think the sannins cannot be hurt, the only true defense they have is rashomon which will be breached by a sand tsunami or a powerful gold or iron spike. The summons can also serve as a line of defense but then that means the sannins will sacrifice the source of their most powerful jutsus seeing as the frogs cannot survive a single wave of sand.

The kages control the whole battlefield, what you said above about the sannins owning the battle field is a big lie. Even one of the kages could seize control of the battlefield let alone three of them. By the way kusanagi looses to magnet release. Eight branches will just be a waste of chakra, it will definitely fall to any kind of powerful sand attack.

The kazekages have generally larger chakra reserves than the sannins, tsunade against iron sand? Common she will survive the attacks but she will definitely be pushed around.

I have countered genjutsu, taijutsu is useless against the kages, ninjutsu just not powerful enough to bring down the 3 kazekages. As for speed, please non of them have real speed that the kazekages can't handle.

So the kazekages win in a jiffy. Thanks bro.

You forget the fact that these summonings move far faster than the shukaku. Shukaku is a fairly stable opponent where as gamabunta alone is able to giant vast distances in the air, or vast distances around the field. In order to trap, kill or hit these summonings, the kages not only have to be fast enough to catch them, they have to use a large enough attack to restrain them. And, with a large attack they're able to dodge that much quicker. Sitting on a beast doesn't leave them vulnerable to a sand hail as you assume the beast sits in one spot all the time. Gaara has to, not only, get a large enough amount of sand into the air, but he also has to get it high enough into the air. This sand is very visible and it is unlikely that the battle hardened sannin would sit under a sand cloud instead of obviously moving. Infact, sand hail has never been used as a finishing move, more as a distraction to allow a ground attack, but at the height the sannin are, a successful grand attack is a far cry. Couple this with jiraiya's sensor barrier and it's virtually impossible to catch them off guard.

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Sorry, If i also gave the presumption that they can't break genjutsu. What i was trying to state was genjutsu's uses as a diversion. We've seen (from itachi atleast) that genjutsu can be used to trick your opponents about your whereabouts, or to restrain them for a short period as to allow for an attack (such as with kurenai, or orochimaru's fear genjutsu). And, as you've stated frog song is frightening, even able to restrain pain long enough for a succesful triple kill. This song doesn't need jiraiya to stay out of the fight however, it was just what happened due to jiraiya already fleeing the fight before learning of frog song. All the sannin need is 1 second, because kusanagi is able to move vast distances very quickly, and able to cut through near anything. 3rd and 4th kazekage's lack of auto sand defence will be their downfall as they will be picked off eventually by a sannin combo. This leaves gaara to a tripple assault by devastating opponents.


"we all know orochimaru and tsunade cannot hold all three kazekages back by themselves, that is if they decide to attack directly but gaara can easily attack from different directions including the ground and that will make them unable to do that."
Orochimaru is easily the strongest sannin, but apart from that, you seem to forget that it is not only orochimaru and tsunade in this fight. It is;
Jiraiya (frogs are incapacitated, he isn't)
Snakes (manda, twin headed, triple headed)
Katsuya (healing or spitting acid in giant form)
Shadow clones (orochimaru)
Sword of kusanagi
Frogs (gamabunta, gamatatsu, gamakichi, or w.e frogs are to be used)
There is no chance for the kazekage to perform a ground attack as orochimaru never needs to leave the top of the summonings, nor does jiraiya. With tsunade tranfering over her chakra, there is no reason for jiraiya not to spam swamps, oil-fire combos with gamabunta, etc., while orochimaru spams wind jutsu and earth jutsu. I cannot say which jutsu orochimaru can spam, but we already know he has great breakthrough.
This is enough of a defence to allow the frogs to sing their sweet lullaby.
Gaara's attacks will be very visible on the scale of these massive frogs.

Lastly, on your first paragraph, those giant snakes sank instantly, but jiraiya himself stated that he wasn't able to make the swamp deep enough due to his hindered chakra. This swamp doesn't have bone protruding to the ground either, it just turns the ground into mush. There is unlikely anything to sense until the ground is a swamp. A non drugged up jiraiya will be able to make a much deeper swamp, much quicker in order to distract the kazekage. It isn't about killing them with these moves. It's about a distraction for a follow up attack.

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Lol. Starting with personal attacks eh? Well then, let me continue. Gaara has auto defence, and in order to protect the other kage, he needs to manually do that. The speed at which he protect them, is the speed at which they can protect themselves. But, the thing is, unlike gaara, those other kage have never been shown to use sand armor, and without auto defence, they are susceptible to a ground attack by orochimaru. Simply moving his head through the ground and suprise-kusanagi stabbing one of the kage is enough to cause severe damage. Without a medic, that injured kage will slowly lose health. Gaara isn't able to protect the other kage any better than they can protect themselves, but you are right that they do have defence. But, gaara's defence is the best defence out of all of them. Also, i'm not talking about a sand bullet soaking gaara's sand. I'm talking about the force of the blast. Stealing your own line, you're probably one of those people who believe that gaara's sand could withstand anything. Gamabunta's water blasts are on a large scale and carry a large force. This, manda slamming his tail, or any of the frogs using their weapons to attack is enough to keep the kages on defence as gaara's passive sand isn't enough to protect against such heavy hitting attacks - they will need much stronger defences. Don't forget, these summonings are about 50x larger than the humans, and a hit from there carries massive force. We have seen that gaara's sand was almost penetrated by kimimaro's bone, and that a large enough force is able to break gaara's defence enough to blow him away (madara). Even yasaka magatama was able to do some damage to gaara's sand, so gaara's sand is no way invincible to any force.
Also, about the fire attacks. If the kages were to be trapped on the ground by the swap, or a flurry of snake, sending a gaemon onto them is likely enough to kill them if they were to sit in it. No matter how strong gaara's sand is, or how high the melting point of sand is, if they were to sit in so much heat, the heat transfer alone would kill them from heat stroke.

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I don't know where you learnt that any of what you stated could break a rashouman, let alone a triple rashouman. Rashoumans have tanked tbb's. Tbb's carry a large force and large explosive forces. those tsunamis and sand attacks will not be carrying that much for as the explosive force of a tbb is able to repave land. Once again, you assume the frogs legs are broken, they're paraplegic, or the sannin are retarded. Frogs can jump very far distances, and manda is able to traverse under ground. The summonings need not tank anything, they can simply dodge. Gaara's sand isn't fast enough to catch a summoning that moved so fast that sheer wind force planted naruto firmly to gamabunta. Nor is sand tsunami high enough to reach the heights the frogs can jump. Furthermore, sand tsunami won't hurt manda underground as sand tsunami moves about ground. only a grand desert funeral would affect manda, but in order to do that they'd need to see that manda even moved. with a large tsunami impeding vision, this is unlikely. Unless the had a sand eye sitting ontop manda, they wouldn't notice it as manda is able to shed skin, effectively leaving it as a decoy, and move underground.
Rashoumon, movement of the non paraplegic frogs, sensor barriers, water bullets (to blast away some attacks) are all viable forms of defence to survive. With orochimaru's immortality (dismemberment doesn't kill him and oral rebirth allows him to survive all sorts of things), tsunade's pseudo immortallity(allowing her to survive life threatening injury), and katsuya medical abilities all protect the sannin from certain death. In fact, it can easily be assumed that katsuya is able to reattach any limbs that jiraiya or tsunade may lose because katsuya did tell tsunade she would put tsunade back together.

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I'm sorry but that paragraph is speculation and calling my arguement a lie doesn't solidify it. The fact is that all of the kages jutsu really on a visible amount of dust/sand. The kages' best form of attacks are linear tsunamis and flying objects. Sand hail isn't a viable attack option as it 1) can be dodged, and 2) is only ever used as a diversion. Effectively, the kazekage only control the ground because it is only there that they are able to sneak attack. Whereas, the sannin are able to sneak attack anywhere. You see, the fact that 3rd kazekage has to have IS floating around him, then has to form an object before attack gives it away. Acid, Water bullets, Oil+fire combo attacks, swamp, great wind breakthrough, or simply summoning the inside of a frog are all sudden attacks that can hardly be avoided. Infact, The kazekage possibly may not even have a method of getting out of the toad's stomach and would be left vulnerable to a flurry of jutsu in that confined space. They wouldn't even be able to pull off any good means of counter, especially if 3rd and 4th kazekage do not have IS or GD floating around them. If they're caught in a toad stomach without their most basic resourse with them, they are at a severe disadvantage with gaara being the only one able to do anything with his gourd sand, and having no jutsu to break out of the toad's stomach.
NOw, Couple that with orochimaru and manda's ability to traverse underground, it can be seen that the sannin are the ones which control the entire area. There is no means of attack which they cannot pull off (be it air or ground) which is able to severely injure or straight up kill. Flank attack won't work on the sannin while they sit ontop massive summons which have to first be traversed before an attack can procede. Whereas, 3rd and 4th's lack of an auto armor means that any form of flank attack (from shadow clones, or moving underground, or earth jutsu under their feat) could all potentially cause them problems. The kazekage's ability to fly make this a tougher fight for the sannin, but in no way gives them control of the sky. The fact is, the kage have minimal air attacks. Their best air attacks come from 3rd kazekage, or sand hail (which isn't meant to kill or trap, just distract).

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This next paragraph is also massive speculation. Gaara most likely has the most chakra here, but it's unlikely that the 3rd and 4th have near his capabilities. You seem to forget that tsunade was able to heal an entire village. That's tranfering her chakra to hundreds, if not thousands of people after using up chakra on a summoning. Jutsu less orochimaru was also able to use a vast array of non-chakra based attacks, so it is unlikely that orochimaru would run out of chakra anytime soon either. The person with possibly the lowest reserves is jiraiya, and even then he was able to pull off a large variety of large scale jutsu against pain without getting exhausted. If anything all these people chakra are fairly even with the exception of gaara and his bijuu level chakra. but, if 3rd and 4th run out of chakra, they can no longer use jutsu and there's no one to give them chakra. Whereas, with the sannin, tsunade could consistently transfer parts of her massive pool.

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You've not countered genjutsu. Sure they break out of visual genjutsu, and fear genjutsu, but it would still have affected them long enough to immobilize them for an attack combo. The sannin only need a short period to be able to attack the kage quickly. Also, taijutsu isn't ineffective. 3rd and 4th kazekage have no auto defence. The speed is defence is only as fast as they can react. A sudden flank by orochimaru, or tsunade(being carried underground by manda) could put those 2 kage in a tight spot. You underestimate the sannin speed as the kazekage's only speed lies in their manipulation of sand. Jiraiya was able to blitz pain before he became aware. Orochimaru was able to keep up with a 4tail naruto who we know is very speedy. And manda and the frogs speed are too much for the kage to even launch a successful attack against the sannin.

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It can be seen that the kazekage evidently lose. Their lack of a counter to frog song alone puts them in a deep hole. Without auto defence, 3rd and forth are prime meat. And with a lack of jutsu that can effectively kill in the air/discrete jutsu that can effectively surprise the sannin, they aren't able to control the sky. The kages' only hope is to have the sannin on the ground, but even then the sannin have ground attacks that the kage also have to lookout for.

One last thing, Kusanagi isn't useless. Nor will it be taken by jinton. Orochimaru has direct manipulation over the sword, and at best the kage will be fighting with him to pry control of it. They won't be able to successfully use the sword as they please. That's if orochimaru even spits the sword out and doesn't use it in it's extendable form as a lance to pierce and kill.

 

[genii96]

Team kazekage.

Each of them can completely alter the battlefield,all 3 of them?,and the sannin wont have a ground to stand on.

If j-man wants to enter sm,he gets out of the fight,leaving oro and tsunade to face the 3 of them,unlike gaara,the other 2 need no prep for giant gold or iron sand attacks,

good luck for any giant summon dodging this

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that was from sasori's control,and going by his hype as the strongest kazekage by far,he can do that on a much larger scale.

Then you have this

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and another one with gold dust,as starting attacks. All 3 kazekages can fly,all 3 have the same styles,and can synchronise attacks,i am pretty sure fir would do squat to sand,gold or iron sand.

Manda and any frog summon are killed with iron sand,the slug is sunk and restrained. Any of these 3 can kill oroand tsunade with their sand/gold/iron sand burial.

Tsunade isnt really lasting long against these large scale attacks.

One can attack from yhe air,the other from the ground and the other infront and behind.

 

[Hafiz Dembos]

You forget the fact that these summonings move far faster than the shukaku. Shukaku is a fairly stable opponent where as gamabunta alone is able to giant vast distances in the air, or vast distances around the field. In order to trap, kill or hit these summonings, the kages not only have to be fast enough to catch them, they have to use a large enough attack to restrain them. And, with a large attack they're able to dodge that much quicker. Sitting on a beast doesn't leave them vulnerable to a sand hail as you assume the beast sits in one spot all the time. Gaara has to, not only, get a large enough amount of sand into the air, but he also has to get it high enough into the air. This sand is very visible and it is unlikely that the battle hardened sannin would sit under a sand cloud instead of obviously moving. Infact, sand hail has never been used as a finishing move, more as a distraction to allow a ground attack, but at the height the sannin are, a successful grand attack is a far cry. Couple this with jiraiya's sensor barrier and it's virtually impossible to catch them off guard.

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Sorry, If i also gave the presumption that they can't break genjutsu. What i was trying to state was genjutsu's uses as a diversion. We've seen (from itachi atleast) that genjutsu can be used to trick your opponents about your whereabouts, or to restrain them for a short period as to allow for an attack (such as with kurenai, or orochimaru's fear genjutsu). And, as you've stated frog song is frightening, even able to restrain pain long enough for a succesful triple kill. This song doesn't need jiraiya to stay out of the fight however, it was just what happened due to jiraiya already fleeing the fight before learning of frog song. All the sannin need is 1 second, because kusanagi is able to move vast distances very quickly, and able to cut through near anything. 3rd and 4th kazekage's lack of auto sand defence will be their downfall as they will be picked off eventually by a sannin combo. This leaves gaara to a tripple assault by devastating opponents.


"we all know orochimaru and tsunade cannot hold all three kazekages back by themselves, that is if they decide to attack directly but gaara can easily attack from different directions including the ground and that will make them unable to do that."
Orochimaru is easily the strongest sannin, but apart from that, you seem to forget that it is not only orochimaru and tsunade in this fight. It is;
Jiraiya (frogs are incapacitated, he isn't)
Snakes (manda, twin headed, triple headed)
Katsuya (healing or spitting acid in giant form)
Shadow clones (orochimaru)
Sword of kusanagi
Frogs (gamabunta, gamatatsu, gamakichi, or w.e frogs are to be used)
There is no chance for the kazekage to perform a ground attack as orochimaru never needs to leave the top of the summonings, nor does jiraiya. With tsunade tranfering over her chakra, there is no reason for jiraiya not to spam swamps, oil-fire combos with gamabunta, etc., while orochimaru spams wind jutsu and earth jutsu. I cannot say which jutsu orochimaru can spam, but we already know he has great breakthrough.
This is enough of a defence to allow the frogs to sing their sweet lullaby.
Gaara's attacks will be very visible on the scale of these massive frogs.

Lastly, on your first paragraph, those giant snakes sank instantly, but jiraiya himself stated that he wasn't able to make the swamp deep enough due to his hindered chakra. This swamp doesn't have bone protruding to the ground either, it just turns the ground into mush. There is unlikely anything to sense until the ground is a swamp. A non drugged up jiraiya will be able to make a much deeper swamp, much quicker in order to distract the kazekage. It isn't about killing them with these moves. It's about a distraction for a follow up attack.

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Lol. Starting with personal attacks eh? Well then, let me continue. Gaara has auto defence, and in order to protect the other kage, he needs to manually do that. The speed at which he protect them, is the speed at which they can protect themselves. But, the thing is, unlike gaara, those other kage have never been shown to use sand armor, and without auto defence, they are susceptible to a ground attack by orochimaru. Simply moving his head through the ground and suprise-kusanagi stabbing one of the kage is enough to cause severe damage. Without a medic, that injured kage will slowly lose health. Gaara isn't able to protect the other kage any better than they can protect themselves, but you are right that they do have defence. But, gaara's defence is the best defence out of all of them. Also, i'm not talking about a sand bullet soaking gaara's sand. I'm talking about the force of the blast. Stealing your own line, you're probably one of those people who believe that gaara's sand could withstand anything. Gamabunta's water blasts are on a large scale and carry a large force. This, manda slamming his tail, or any of the frogs using their weapons to attack is enough to keep the kages on defence as gaara's passive sand isn't enough to protect against such heavy hitting attacks - they will need much stronger defences. Don't forget, these summonings are about 50x larger than the humans, and a hit from there carries massive force. We have seen that gaara's sand was almost penetrated by kimimaro's bone, and that a large enough force is able to break gaara's defence enough to blow him away (madara). Even yasaka magatama was able to do some damage to gaara's sand, so gaara's sand is no way invincible to any force.
Also, about the fire attacks. If the kages were to be trapped on the ground by the swap, or a flurry of snake, sending a gaemon onto them is likely enough to kill them if they were to sit in it. No matter how strong gaara's sand is, or how high the melting point of sand is, if they were to sit in so much heat, the heat transfer alone would kill them from heat stroke.

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I don't know where you learnt that any of what you stated could break a rashouman, let alone a triple rashouman. Rashoumans have tanked tbb's. Tbb's carry a large force and large explosive forces. those tsunamis and sand attacks will not be carrying that much for as the explosive force of a tbb is able to repave land. Once again, you assume the frogs legs are broken, they're paraplegic, or the sannin are retarded. Frogs can jump very far distances, and manda is able to traverse under ground. The summonings need not tank anything, they can simply dodge. Gaara's sand isn't fast enough to catch a summoning that moved so fast that sheer wind force planted naruto firmly to gamabunta. Nor is sand tsunami high enough to reach the heights the frogs can jump. Furthermore, sand tsunami won't hurt manda underground as sand tsunami moves about ground. only a grand desert funeral would affect manda, but in order to do that they'd need to see that manda even moved. with a large tsunami impeding vision, this is unlikely. Unless the had a sand eye sitting ontop manda, they wouldn't notice it as manda is able to shed skin, effectively leaving it as a decoy, and move underground.
Rashoumon, movement of the non paraplegic frogs, sensor barriers, water bullets (to blast away some attacks) are all viable forms of defence to survive. With orochimaru's immortality (dismemberment doesn't kill him and oral rebirth allows him to survive all sorts of things), tsunade's pseudo immortallity(allowing her to survive life threatening injury), and katsuya medical abilities all protect the sannin from certain death. In fact, it can easily be assumed that katsuya is able to reattach any limbs that jiraiya or tsunade may lose because katsuya did tell tsunade she would put tsunade back together.

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I'm sorry but that paragraph is speculation and calling my arguement a lie doesn't solidify it. The fact is that all of the kages jutsu really on a visible amount of dust/sand. The kages' best form of attacks are linear tsunamis and flying objects. Sand hail isn't a viable attack option as it 1) can be dodged, and 2) is only ever used as a diversion. Effectively, the kazekage only control the ground because it is only there that they are able to sneak attack. Whereas, the sannin are able to sneak attack anywhere. You see, the fact that 3rd kazekage has to have IS floating around him, then has to form an object before attack gives it away. Acid, Water bullets, Oil+fire combo attacks, swamp, great wind breakthrough, or simply summoning the inside of a frog are all sudden attacks that can hardly be avoided. Infact, The kazekage possibly may not even have a method of getting out of the toad's stomach and would be left vulnerable to a flurry of jutsu in that confined space. They wouldn't even be able to pull off any good means of counter, especially if 3rd and 4th kazekage do not have IS or GD floating around them. If they're caught in a toad stomach without their most basic resourse with them, they are at a severe disadvantage with gaara being the only one able to do anything with his gourd sand, and having no jutsu to break out of the toad's stomach.
NOw, Couple that with orochimaru and manda's ability to traverse underground, it can be seen that the sannin are the ones which control the entire area. There is no means of attack which they cannot pull off (be it air or ground) which is able to severely injure or straight up kill. Flank attack won't work on the sannin while they sit ontop massive summons which have to first be traversed before an attack can procede. Whereas, 3rd and 4th's lack of an auto armor means that any form of flank attack (from shadow clones, or moving underground, or earth jutsu under their feat) could all potentially cause them problems. The kazekage's ability to fly make this a tougher fight for the sannin, but in no way gives them control of the sky. The fact is, the kage have minimal air attacks. Their best air attacks come from 3rd kazekage, or sand hail (which isn't meant to kill or trap, just distract).

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This next paragraph is also massive speculation. Gaara most likely has the most chakra here, but it's unlikely that the 3rd and 4th have near his capabilities. You seem to forget that tsunade was able to heal an entire village. That's tranfering her chakra to hundreds, if not thousands of people after using up chakra on a summoning. Jutsu less orochimaru was also able to use a vast array of non-chakra based attacks, so it is unlikely that orochimaru would run out of chakra anytime soon either. The person with possibly the lowest reserves is jiraiya, and even then he was able to pull off a large variety of large scale jutsu against pain without getting exhausted. If anything all these people chakra are fairly even with the exception of gaara and his bijuu level chakra. but, if 3rd and 4th run out of chakra, they can no longer use jutsu and there's no one to give them chakra. Whereas, with the sannin, tsunade could consistently transfer parts of her massive pool.

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You've not countered genjutsu. Sure they break out of visual genjutsu, and fear genjutsu, but it would still have affected them long enough to immobilize them for an attack combo. The sannin only need a short period to be able to attack the kage quickly. Also, taijutsu isn't ineffective. 3rd and 4th kazekage have no auto defence. The speed is defence is only as fast as they can react. A sudden flank by orochimaru, or tsunade(being carried underground by manda) could put those 2 kage in a tight spot. You underestimate the sannin speed as the kazekage's only speed lies in their manipulation of sand. Jiraiya was able to blitz pain before he became aware. Orochimaru was able to keep up with a 4tail naruto who we know is very speedy. And manda and the frogs speed are too much for the kage to even launch a successful attack against the sannin.

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It can be seen that the kazekage evidently lose. Their lack of a counter to frog song alone puts them in a deep hole. Without auto defence, 3rd and forth are prime meat. And with a lack of jutsu that can effectively kill in the air/discrete jutsu that can effectively surprise the sannin, they aren't able to control the sky. The kages' only hope is to have the sannin on the ground, but even then the sannin have ground attacks that the kage also have to lookout for.

One last thing, Kusanagi isn't useless. Nor will it be taken by jinton. Orochimaru has direct manipulation over the sword, and at best the kage will be fighting with him to pry control of it. They won't be able to successfully use the sword as they please. That's if orochimaru even spits the sword out and doesn't use it in it's extendable form as a lance to pierce and kill.

I don't have time to type long posts like yours so i will keep mine short. First of all you go under the assumption that jiraya has enough chakra to summon all the frogs which is not true, even naruto needs the chakra of the nine tails to summon one frog, the best jiraya can probably summon is 2 to 3 and even that will drain him of about all his chakra.
Like I said before only the frogs have powerful attacks because they are huge and they all can be countered by the kages. Orochimaru's best jutsu till date is probably the eight headed snake, jiraya's best is an oodama rasengan and tsunade has strength only and those will practically be of no problem to the kages.

You talked about the frogs jumping, while in the air the frogs are really easy targets as the are unable to maneuver well in the air and can be killed easily with iron sand or gold dust or even sand attacks, the frogs are practically not safe whether on the ground or air. As for manda going into the ground then that will be an easy kill for gaara as he can sense it and crush it.

About the impact of the water bullet, do you know that any of the sand types on a similar scale packs more impact and destruction, especially gold that is 20 times heavier than water, so i don't see how that will be a problem.

Tsunade or orochimaru will never survive a sand funeral because it turns you into a puddle of blood, i don't see a puddle of blood having a mouth to spit out orochimaru or a puddle of blood turning back into tsunade.

About the rashomon, five of them only managed to change the direction of the tbb and were damaged, 3 could not withstand a mini tbb and one out of two was seriously indented by kiba's double headed dog, I don't see how the kages will have problem with such a defense. AS for the kages' defense, Gaara has strong enough defense that blocked c3, a village buster, with no damage at all. Don't forget that c3 contains deidara's highest chakra level which makes it even stronger than c0 which towers high above mountains and can cover a radius of 10km and if you compare them with the tbb from the 2nd state of the ten tails, you will see that the are pretty much the same. I will try and post manga pages to prove that, but you also have to read the speeches to understand.

Gaara can also bring up dust which can blind the opponents and even be used as sensors and remember that when they are covered in dust any part of it can suddenly change into an attack.

We all know gaara is very powerful but putting his father who has equal or greater strength and the 3rd who despite the villagers knowing gaara's power, still proclaim him as the strongest and also say that his iron sand is the most feared weapon in history, then he must be far stronger than gaara. Putting three of them in the same teams is over kill for any other team.

Sorry I did not mean that as an insult.=D

 

[Hafiz Dembos]

Below is deidara explaining the power of his bombs is proportional to the amount of chakra he uses. Furthermore he reveals that his c3 contains his highest level of chakra which makes it is ultimate move.

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This is the c3's explosion at the beginning keeping in mind that the explosion will definitely expand with time.

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Gaara blocks the c3 explosion without any damage to his sand shield.

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Deidara claiming that the c0's explosion covers a 10km radius.

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The c0 wrecking multiple mountains in no time and towering high above them.

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The ten tail's tbb that is pretty much the same as c0.

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What I am implying is that Gaara's defense is off the hook and the sannins have no way around it unless of course they have something more powerful than a c3 which is more powerful than a c0 and c0 is pretty much the same as the ten tail's tbb.

 

[Draegod]

And lets not forget the Toads or team sannin does not posses a sheild strong enough to block the 3rd kazekages spear and hammer:

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All 3 of The best pre-sage toads have weapons of iron and steal! 3rd Kazekage instantly at the last second takes every weapon/sheild they posses away and strikes with a instant kill! Fact is they do not have a defense for metal spears..

They biggest problem is Manda and Oru! He is the key to the sannins winning or losing!

Kusanagi is Instantly useless! and once Oru figures that out he (being smart) will not use it!

Gaara will instantly make any battle field a dessert:

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WIth that being said he will then create sensor sand that will instantly know where our opponents are at all time!

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And we will all be aerial So all forms of Taijutsu is instantly out the window! SO that leaves Tsunade useless off the back (at the beginning at least).

Waves of Sand tsunamis and Hail storms will over whelm the sannin while The 3rd kazekage solos teh Summons since he has the most powerful ability to use against them!

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Now with that being said, Manda will be a big problem with his speed and versatility (best summon out of the 3). But with gaara's sensor sand manda will never take any of them by surprise! And we can counter attack accordingly!

Im lucky that non of you sanin supporters do not know half the info on oru/jman than i do so i know you want do what i would do with the 2! haha (know page for page on both).

In the end tsunade and company will be forced to stay on the move, otherwise they get sealed or dragged under ground for instant death imo.

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Basically since the sannins cannot go air born and lack the power to defeat all 3 defense they lose! I have more if youre still not convinced..​

 

[AGoodBoy]

Spoiler

I don't have time to type long posts like yours so i will keep mine short. First of all you go under the assumption that jiraya has enough chakra to summon all the frogs which is not true, even naruto needs the chakra of the nine tails to summon one frog, the best jiraya can probably summon is 2 to 3 and even that will drain him of about all his chakra.
Like I said before only the frogs have powerful attacks because they are huge and they all can be countered by the kages. Orochimaru's best jutsu till date is probably the eight headed snake, jiraya's best is an oodama rasengan and tsunade has strength only and those will practically be of no problem to the kages.

You talked about the frogs jumping, while in the air the frogs are really easy targets as the are unable to maneuver well in the air and can be killed easily with iron sand or gold dust or even sand attacks, the frogs are practically not safe whether on the ground or air. As for manda going into the ground then that will be an easy kill for gaara as he can sense it and crush it.

About the impact of the water bullet, do you know that any of the sand types on a similar scale packs more impact and destruction, especially gold that is 20 times heavier than water, so i don't see how that will be a problem.

Tsunade or orochimaru will never survive a sand funeral because it turns you into a puddle of blood, i don't see a puddle of blood having a mouth to spit out orochimaru or a puddle of blood turning back into tsunade.

About the rashomon, five of them only managed to change the direction of the tbb and were damaged, 3 could not withstand a mini tbb and one out of two was seriously indented by kiba's double headed dog, I don't see how the kages will have problem with such a defense. AS for the kages' defense, Gaara has strong enough defense that blocked c3, a village buster, with no damage at all. Don't forget that c3 contains deidara's highest chakra level which makes it even stronger than c0 which towers high above mountains and can cover a radius of 10km and if you compare them with the tbb from the 2nd state of the ten tails, you will see that the are pretty much the same. I will try and post manga pages to prove that, but you also have to read the speeches to understand.

Gaara can also bring up dust which can blind the opponents and even be used as sensors and remember that when they are covered in dust any part of it can suddenly change into an attack.

We all know gaara is very powerful but putting his father who has equal or greater strength and the 3rd who despite the villagers knowing gaara's power, still proclaim him as the strongest and also say that his iron sand is the most feared weapon in history, then he must be far stronger than gaara. Putting three of them in the same teams is over kill for any other team.

Sorry I did not mean that as an insult.=D

This is going to be harder to convince than i previously though especially seeing as you missed the point of my post, but i'll try to keep this short.

1) I specifically stated that tsunade transfers chakra which has been explicitly shown in the manga. This + Sage mode allows jiraiya and orochimaru to do far more than he'd normally be capable of

2) There is no attack in gaara or 4th kazekage's arsenal which can kill a frog which is a few hundred meters in the air. Though the frog is moving linearly, their biggest attack is a sand tsunami which moves on ground, and a grand sand burial. 3rd kazekage is the only one able to make an offence and he'd need one of his massive IS objects to injure or even kill a massive frog like bunta. He's never been shown to move these objects relatively quickly, and bunta would be moving at high speed through the air. Furthermore, bunta, gamaken, and the rest have swords and/or shields. Those can easily block IS objects.

3) Manda slithers quickly above and under ground able to blitz katsuya and bunta. The kage won't be at such a massive distance that manda has to dig for long.

4)Jiraiya has giant flame bullet, goeamon and other SM frog combination attacks. Then there's frog song which the kage can't counter. ORochimaru hasn't shown any jutsu but 8 branches can easily over power the kage. An explosion is different from a hit as we saw that kimimaro was able to tackle his way through gaara's auto defence. Auto defence won't save the kages as their opponent's attacks carry too much force. force which doesn't dissipate instantly but can be continually applied by just pushing down more. With an explosion the sand blocks the force and redirects it. Gaara's auto defence has been shown to be broken.

5) I said auto defence wouldn't be sufficient for the kage, they'd need much stronger, massive defence which would hinder them from even attacking as just the summonings along are able to pressure them into a defence

6) C3 isn't more powerful than C0. C3 doesn't cover 10Km.

7) Gaara's never been shown to instantly turn dust into an attack, sorry. Also jiraiya has a sensor barrier. Gaara isn't the only one with sensing capabilities.

8) The kage need to hit them with a sand funeral which isn't going to happen through the sheer fact that they first have to get around the summonings to do that. Even if oro were to be caught, oral rebirth helps him escape any sand hold before he's crushed. It's also been shown that a strong enough person can simply force their way out of the jutsu - and tsunade is very strong. One last thing, it exerts enough pressure to break bones, but it doesn't turn you into a puddle of blood. Lee's arm and leg was hit by a sand coffin and was later healed. Injuries like this are healed by tsunade. Desert grand burial isn't going to work because summonings can simply avoid sand tsunami. Rashoumon can also block it's linear motion.

9) Gaara is far more powerful than his father as he was able to 2 jutsu KO him. Infact, gaara's dad is pretty much a pseudo-gaara. If they're able to defeat gaara, they're able to defeat his dad much easier. His dad lack auto defence and some of gaara's arsenal as he's never been shown to be able to remotely use it, even to save himself when he fought gaara (he was tagged to automatically defend so if there was something he could do, he would do it.) 3rd kazekage is quite possibly more powerful than gaara because of the magnetism and IS objects penetrating his sand, but the 3rd kazekage lacks attacks such as sand tsunami since he's only shown to manipulate his IS in the form of objects in order to attack. Like i've said, summonings can avoid, or simply parry the attacks as they're unlikely even be large enough to contend with summonings.

10) I think you're a bit unclear on the size of summonings such as manda and bunta, that's why you think simple sand attacks other than sand tsunami woul deven hurt them.

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Naruto and gaara are respectively the size of bunta and shukaku's eye ball. And, Katsuya is larger than bunta, while manda is even larger than katsuya. Using attacks on these scale would run the kage dry. War gaara has only shown 1 sand tsunami, 1 sand wave, 1 giant sand defence, 1 sand clone, flight, sand sensing, 2 sand arm, 2 sand pyramid, and maybe 1 or 2 other jutsu before he was extremely exhausted and tsunade had to replenish his chakra when she entered the fray. The sand tsunami is by far the largest and the most chakra exhaustive jutsu there. The fact that 3rd and 4th kazekage do not have gaara's stamina pool already means they're unlikely to be able to do more than 3 sand tsunami at best while wasting chakra flying and defending themselves. Not even gaara has been shown to use 3 sand tsunami on one given day. Infact, pre shippuuden gaara who's most likely closer in chakra level to his dad, was only able to do 1 sand tsunami before depleting his chakra to about half.


one last thing. The kazekage have no defence to frog song and this ended up being longer than i though. Oh well.

Tl;dr; The kazekage doubtfully have the stamina pool to keep up massive defence, massive offence, and flight to only contend with 3 summoning alone. By the time they get past the summoning, they're most likely exhausted while the sannin are fairly high in stamina.

 

[Hafiz Dembos]

This is going to be harder to convince than i previously though especially seeing as you missed the point of my post, but i'll try to keep this short.

1) I specifically stated that tsunade transfers chakra which has been explicitly shown in the manga. This + Sage mode allows jiraiya and orochimaru to do far more than he'd normally be capable of

2) There is no attack in gaara or 4th kazekage's arsenal which can kill a frog which is a few hundred meters in the air. Though the frog is moving linearly, their biggest attack is a sand tsunami which moves on ground, and a grand sand burial. 3rd kazekage is the only one able to make an offence and he'd need one of his massive IS objects to injure or even kill a massive frog like bunta. He's never been shown to move these objects relatively quickly, and bunta would be moving at high speed through the air. Furthermore, bunta, gamaken, and the rest have swords and/or shields. Those can easily block IS objects.

3) Manda slithers quickly above and under ground able to blitz katsuya and bunta. The kage won't be at such a massive distance that manda has to dig for long.

4)Jiraiya has giant flame bullet, goeamon and other SM frog combination attacks. Then there's frog song which the kage can't counter. ORochimaru hasn't shown any jutsu but 8 branches can easily over power the kage. An explosion is different from a hit as we saw that kimimaro was able to tackle his way through gaara's auto defence. Auto defence won't save the kages as their opponent's attacks carry too much force. force which doesn't dissipate instantly but can be continually applied by just pushing down more. With an explosion the sand blocks the force and redirects it. Gaara's auto defence has been shown to be broken.

5) I said auto defence wouldn't be sufficient for the kage, they'd need much stronger, massive defence which would hinder them from even attacking as just the summonings along are able to pressure them into a defence

6) C3 isn't more powerful than C0. C3 doesn't cover 10Km.

7) Gaara's never been shown to instantly turn dust into an attack, sorry. Also jiraiya has a sensor barrier. Gaara isn't the only one with sensing capabilities.

8) The kage need to hit them with a sand funeral which isn't going to happen through the sheer fact that they first have to get around the summonings to do that. Even if oro were to be caught, oral rebirth helps him escape any sand hold before he's crushed. It's also been shown that a strong enough person can simply force their way out of the jutsu - and tsunade is very strong. One last thing, it exerts enough pressure to break bones, but it doesn't turn you into a puddle of blood. Lee's arm and leg was hit by a sand coffin and was later healed. Injuries like this are healed by tsunade. Desert grand burial isn't going to work because summonings can simply avoid sand tsunami. Rashoumon can also block it's linear motion.

9) Gaara is far more powerful than his father as he was able to 2 jutsu KO him. Infact, gaara's dad is pretty much a pseudo-gaara. If they're able to defeat gaara, they're able to defeat his dad much easier. His dad lack auto defence and some of gaara's arsenal as he's never been shown to be able to remotely use it, even to save himself when he fought gaara (he was tagged to automatically defend so if there was something he could do, he would do it.) 3rd kazekage is quite possibly more powerful than gaara because of the magnetism and IS objects penetrating his sand, but the 3rd kazekage lacks attacks such as sand tsunami since he's only shown to manipulate his IS in the form of objects in order to attack. Like i've said, summonings can avoid, or simply parry the attacks as they're unlikely even be large enough to contend with summonings.

10) I think you're a bit unclear on the size of summonings such as manda and bunta, that's why you think simple sand attacks other than sand tsunami woul deven hurt them.

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Naruto and gaara are respectively the size of bunta and shukaku's eye ball. And, Katsuya is larger than bunta, while manda is even larger than katsuya. Using attacks on these scale would run the kage dry. War gaara has only shown 1 sand tsunami, 1 sand wave, 1 giant sand defence, 1 sand clone, flight, sand sensing, 2 sand arm, 2 sand pyramid, and maybe 1 or 2 other jutsu before he was extremely exhausted and tsunade had to replenish his chakra when she entered the fray. The sand tsunami is by far the largest and the most chakra exhaustive jutsu there. The fact that 3rd and 4th kazekage do not have gaara's stamina pool already means they're unlikely to be able to do more than 3 sand tsunami at best while wasting chakra flying and defending themselves. Not even gaara has been shown to use 3 sand tsunami on one given day. Infact, pre shippuuden gaara who's most likely closer in chakra level to his dad, was only able to do 1 sand tsunami before depleting his chakra to about half.


one last thing. The kazekage have no defence to frog song and this ended up being longer than i though. Oh well.

Tl;dr; The kazekage doubtfully have the stamina pool to keep up massive defence, massive offence, and flight to only contend with 3 summoning alone. By the time they get past the summoning, they're most likely exhausted while the sannin are fairly high in stamina.

Please read what i posted about those explosions, it clearly states that c3 contains more chakra than c0 which means it has more explosive power, besides deidara used more clay to make c3 and less for c0, he also was exhausted and had little chakra for c0 while he prepared c3 at his leisure time and put his highest amount of chakra into it. C3 is greater than c0 and c0 is as powerful as the ten tail's tbb. The sannins have no powerful move compared to that.

Orochimaru's 8 headed snake will lose to any of the sand users easily. I already countered rashomon, frog songs and the frog summons themselves and could you please prove to me how manda is bigger than katsuyu and katsuyu bigger than gamabuta, I want manga pages.

 

[Hafiz Dembos]

@ AGoodBoy. You posted that page in which Gaara used his own power to create that giant shukaku replica at 13, imagine what he is capable of now let alone the 3rd kagekage who has been hailed as the most powerful shinobi in the sand's history.

 

[Draegod]

This is going to be harder to convince than i previously though especially seeing as you missed the point of my post, but i'll try to keep this short.

1) I specifically stated that tsunade transfers chakra which has been explicitly shown in the manga. This + Sage mode allows jiraiya and orochimaru to do far more than he'd normally be capable of

2) There is no attack in gaara or 4th kazekage's arsenal which can kill a frog which is a few hundred meters in the air. Though the frog is moving linearly, their biggest attack is a sand tsunami which moves on ground, and a grand sand burial. 3rd kazekage is the only one able to make an offence and he'd need one of his massive IS objects to injure or even kill a massive frog like bunta. He's never been shown to move these objects relatively quickly, and bunta would be moving at high speed through the air. Furthermore, bunta, gamaken, and the rest have swords and/or shields. Those can easily block IS objects.

3) Manda slithers quickly above and under ground able to blitz katsuya and bunta. The kage won't be at such a massive distance that manda has to dig for long.

4)Jiraiya has giant flame bullet, goeamon and other SM frog combination attacks. Then there's frog song which the kage can't counter. ORochimaru hasn't shown any jutsu but 8 branches can easily over power the kage. An explosion is different from a hit as we saw that kimimaro was able to tackle his way through gaara's auto defence. Auto defence won't save the kages as their opponent's attacks carry too much force. force which doesn't dissipate instantly but can be continually applied by just pushing down more. With an explosion the sand blocks the force and redirects it. Gaara's auto defence has been shown to be broken.

5) I said auto defence wouldn't be sufficient for the kage, they'd need much stronger, massive defence which would hinder them from even attacking as just the summonings along are able to pressure them into a defence

6) C3 isn't more powerful than C0. C3 doesn't cover 10Km.

7) Gaara's never been shown to instantly turn dust into an attack, sorry. Also jiraiya has a sensor barrier. Gaara isn't the only one with sensing capabilities.

8) The kage need to hit them with a sand funeral which isn't going to happen through the sheer fact that they first have to get around the summonings to do that. Even if oro were to be caught, oral rebirth helps him escape any sand hold before he's crushed. It's also been shown that a strong enough person can simply force their way out of the jutsu - and tsunade is very strong. One last thing, it exerts enough pressure to break bones, but it doesn't turn you into a puddle of blood. Lee's arm and leg was hit by a sand coffin and was later healed. Injuries like this are healed by tsunade. Desert grand burial isn't going to work because summonings can simply avoid sand tsunami. Rashoumon can also block it's linear motion.

9) Gaara is far more powerful than his father as he was able to 2 jutsu KO him. Infact, gaara's dad is pretty much a pseudo-gaara. If they're able to defeat gaara, they're able to defeat his dad much easier. His dad lack auto defence and some of gaara's arsenal as he's never been shown to be able to remotely use it, even to save himself when he fought gaara (he was tagged to automatically defend so if there was something he could do, he would do it.) 3rd kazekage is quite possibly more powerful than gaara because of the magnetism and IS objects penetrating his sand, but the 3rd kazekage lacks attacks such as sand tsunami since he's only shown to manipulate his IS in the form of objects in order to attack. Like i've said, summonings can avoid, or simply parry the attacks as they're unlikely even be large enough to contend with summonings.

10) I think you're a bit unclear on the size of summonings such as manda and bunta, that's why you think simple sand attacks other than sand tsunami woul deven hurt them.

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Naruto and gaara are respectively the size of bunta and shukaku's eye ball. And, Katsuya is larger than bunta, while manda is even larger than katsuya. Using attacks on these scale would run the kage dry. War gaara has only shown 1 sand tsunami, 1 sand wave, 1 giant sand defence, 1 sand clone, flight, sand sensing, 2 sand arm, 2 sand pyramid, and maybe 1 or 2 other jutsu before he was extremely exhausted and tsunade had to replenish his chakra when she entered the fray. The sand tsunami is by far the largest and the most chakra exhaustive jutsu there. The fact that 3rd and 4th kazekage do not have gaara's stamina pool already means they're unlikely to be able to do more than 3 sand tsunami at best while wasting chakra flying and defending themselves. Not even gaara has been shown to use 3 sand tsunami on one given day. Infact, pre shippuuden gaara who's most likely closer in chakra level to his dad, was only able to do 1 sand tsunami before depleting his chakra to about half.


one last thing. The kazekage have no defence to frog song and this ended up being longer than i though. Oh well.

Tl;dr; The kazekage doubtfully have the stamina pool to keep up massive defence, massive offence, and flight to only contend with 3 summoning alone. By the time they get past the summoning, they're most likely exhausted while the sannin are fairly high in stamina.

1. No weapons they have will work agaisnt the kazekages! Fact!

2. Tsunade cannot give Jman extra chakra because it would knock him out of sage mode!

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So please destroy that thought of a argument!

Next: Non of the frogs stand a chance against the 3rd! His spears will easiliy make quick work of them since their weapons will be useless and may be used against them!

So 3rd>>.Toads

Next we have tsunade; if she stays still she gets sealed or she gets dragged under ground! Same goes for jman. We will not let him go sage mode easy with all the sand around!

gaara>>>tsunade

Gold dust incases katsuya in a golden cacoon in which it will not be able to escape!

4th>>>>Katsuya (slug)

All in all if jman miraculously goes to sage mode, thennnnnnnnnnn has more and more time to luckily get the frog song ready then maybe just maybe they can win! Besides that they have no way to win!

 

[TheEvilOne]

No need for three Sannins. Two of them is more then enough. Adding the third is overkill.

 

[Strawberry]

sannin the summons alone could prolly k0 the kazekage

 

[Hafiz Dembos]

No need for three Sannins. Two of them is more then enough. Adding the third is overkill.

You know, you are right. There is no need for three sannins to die, 2 is enough, killing three sannins in one fight is overkill. :3

 

[AGoodBoy]

Spoiler

1. No weapons they have will work agaisnt the kazekages! Fact!

2. Tsunade cannot give Jman extra chakra because it would knock him out of sage mode!

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So please destroy that thought of a argument!

Next: Non of the frogs stand a chance against the 3rd! His spears will easiliy make quick work of them since their weapons will be useless and may be used against them!

So 3rd>>.Toads

Next we have tsunade; if she stays still she gets sealed or she gets dragged under ground! Same goes for jman. We will not let him go sage mode easy with all the sand around!

gaara>>>tsunade

Gold dust incases katsuya in a golden cacoon in which it will not be able to escape!

4th>>>>Katsuya (slug)

All in all if jman miraculously goes to sage mode, thennnnnnnnnnn has more and more time to luckily get the frog song ready then maybe just maybe they can win! Besides that they have no way to win!

no interest in responding to your illogical nonsense. Didn't read. Don't bother respond, won't read it either.

You know, you are right. There is no need for three sannins to die, 2 is enough, killing three sannins in one fight is overkill. :3

XD that was funny. Made me laugh haha, good one Anyway, let me counter your previous arguements.

1) Alright i read your post. But that could possibly be an exaggeration on deids part. C3 has alot of explosive force, but C0 did recarve a 5km radius and kill him. but it's possible C3 is stronger. One i was trying to state however, is that if manda were to slam his tale, gaara would have to keep effort on because manda doesn't need to lift his tale up. Gaara would have to remove it. Same goes for bunta's swords and what not. Whereas, with an explosion, the impact force is dissipated quickly. Whereas with the explosion gaara+kage has to make a very strong defence to last maybe 30 seconds, with the summonings he has to not only create the strong defence, but the use chakra to life them/throw them away from him as they have no reason to even move.

2)how did you counter frog song? Please copy paste i didn't see. Also rashomon weren't broken. 5 rashomon deflected the tbb but weren't damaged at all. I'd also need a scan of kiba denting a raushomon. Furthermore, a tbbs attack and gatsuga (assuming you're not referring to the anime where this happened) would carry more impact force than the sand wave. The sand would more push the rashoumon and try to tip it over instead of breaking through it.
I've recountered your summon counter as i've stated that gaara and kazekage's attacks are in no way able to reach bunta nor are they fast enough to deal a killing blow? they have to catch, restrain and then crush bunta. That's very unlikely considering a human kimimaro (far weaker than bunta) was able to power his way out of gaara's sand hold. And, 3rd raikage was able to repeat that same feat. The simple fact is that these summons (especially manda) are to quick to catch and restrain. Sure, the kazekage would be able to get a large mass of sand to them, but then to have enough time to restrain them with that much sand? These summons are nothing like the shukaku mind you. The shukaku was never shown to be an agile opponent, infact it seems to have the stationary fighting style like the kage which would fit how 4th was even able to restrain it. Bunta and manda are able to move, and move relatively quickly at that.

3) nothing suggest it was gaara's gourd sand forming full shukaku. Infact that's highly unlikely. His gourd sand allowed partial transformation, but full shukaku is a sand demon. All he did was attain full trasnformation, and seeing as shukaku is made of sand, he didn't need to actually form shukaku with sand. Same way bee doesn't have to use octopus and oil to form the hachibi on a full transformation.

Lastly, I'll add the scan (I really didn't want to have to start adding scans... mmh...)

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Bunta is double the height of shukaku here, and double his size in distance, at the apex of his jump. That means bunta can jump atleast 4 shukaku away. That's alot of distance for sand/dust to travel quickly. Even For IS to travel.

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but then, on the next page, we see that bunta actually traveled about 6 shukaku away. That is an exception distance to travel. Let me put this into perspective. So naruto is the size of bunta's eyeball, and naruto is roughly 4feet there. Bunta is easy 20x naruto's height so that already puts bunta at 8 stories high. Now, bunta was able to jump about 6 of it's self away. Being generous, thats about a distance 480 feet in a few seconds. the kage have to move a large mass of sand at least 500 feet to even catch bunta after a jump. This already becomes an incredibly difficult feat as the mass of sand alone they'll have to use to travel that distance is at least the size of a desert tsunami. That will put a heavy strain on their chakra doing all that work. and even if they were somehow fast enough to shoot that much sand, that far

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bunta was agile enough to dodge a high speed air bullet.

Notice how i've not even mentioned manda here yet, who is much faster than bunta and much bigger. notice i haven't even made the sannin help bunta defend, he's able to give the kage a hard time on his own. A fully released shukaku had it's hand chopped off by bunta and couldn't even get a hit on him.

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notice katsuya is longer than bunta and manda is longer than katsuya.

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Then there's this attack which is the size of 10 bunta in area. The kazekage would roast in this for a few seconds. The speed and size of this attack doesn't leave them much breathing room. The heat would probably knock them out from heat stroke alone.

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Bunta's highspeed underground movement that would cause problems for the kazekage

Notice i haven't added the possibilty of a snake pretty much swallowing the kage. OR the bigger possibility of jiraiya using cave toad stomach to completely cut them off from the outside world. They aren't getting extra sand/dust/IS while sitting inside a toad. What they came in with his what they have, and in there jiraiya sense everything and is able to manipulate the intestinal lining to even attempt to crush them.

I await your rebuttal

 

[Draegod]

[/SPOILER]
no interest in responding to your illogical nonsense. Didn't read. Don't bother respond, won't read it either.


XD that was funny. Made me laugh haha, good one Anyway, let me counter your previous arguements.

1) Alright i read your post. But that could possibly be an exaggeration on deids part. C3 has alot of explosive force, but C0 did recarve a 5km radius and kill him. but it's possible C3 is stronger. One i was trying to state however, is that if manda were to slam his tale, gaara would have to keep effort on because manda doesn't need to lift his tale up. Gaara would have to remove it. Same goes for bunta's swords and what not. Whereas, with an explosion, the impact force is dissipated quickly. Whereas with the explosion gaara+kage has to make a very strong defence to last maybe 30 seconds, with the summonings he has to not only create the strong defence, but the use chakra to life them/throw them away from him as they have no reason to even move.

2)how did you counter frog song? Please copy paste i didn't see. Also rashomon weren't broken. 5 rashomon deflected the tbb but weren't damaged at all. I'd also need a scan of kiba denting a raushomon. Furthermore, a tbbs attack and gatsuga (assuming you're not referring to the anime where this happened) would carry more impact force than the sand wave. The sand would more push the rashoumon and try to tip it over instead of breaking through it.
I've recountered your summon counter as i've stated that gaara and kazekage's attacks are in no way able to reach bunta nor are they fast enough to deal a killing blow? they have to catch, restrain and then crush bunta. That's very unlikely considering a human kimimaro (far weaker than bunta) was able to power his way out of gaara's sand hold. And, 3rd raikage was able to repeat that same feat. The simple fact is that these summons (especially manda) are to quick to catch and restrain. Sure, the kazekage would be able to get a large mass of sand to them, but then to have enough time to restrain them with that much sand? These summons are nothing like the shukaku mind you. The shukaku was never shown to be an agile opponent, infact it seems to have the stationary fighting style like the kage which would fit how 4th was even able to restrain it. Bunta and manda are able to move, and move relatively quickly at that.

3) nothing suggest it was gaara's gourd sand forming full shukaku. Infact that's highly unlikely. His gourd sand allowed partial transformation, but full shukaku is a sand demon. All he did was attain full trasnformation, and seeing as shukaku is made of sand, he didn't need to actually form shukaku with sand.

Lastly, I'll add the scan (I really didn't want to have to start adding scans... mmh...)

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Bunta is double the height of shukaku here, and double his size, at the apex of his jump. That means bunta can jump atleast 4 shukaku away. That's alot of distance for sand/dust to travel quickly. Even For IS to travel.

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but then, on the next page, we see that bunta actually traveled about 6 shukaku away. That is an exception distance to travel. Let me put this into perspective. So naruto is the size of bunta's eyeball, and naruto is roughly 4feet there. Bunta is easy 20x naruto's height so that already puts bunta at 8 stories high. Now, bunta was able to jump about 6 of it's self away. Being generous, thats about a distance 480 feet in a few seconds. the kage have to move a large mass of sand at least 500 feet to even catch bunta after a jump. This already becomes an incredibly difficult feat as the mass of sand alone they'll have to use to travel that distance is at least the size of a desert tsunami. That will put a heavy strain on their chakra doing all that work. and even if they were somehow fast enough to shoot that much sand, that far

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bunta was agile enough to dodge a high speed air bullet.

Notice how i've not even mentioned manda here yet, who is much faster than bunta and much bigger. notice i haven't even made the sannin help bunta defend, he's able to give the kage a hard time on his own. A fully released shukaku had it's hand chopped off by bunta and couldn't even get a hit on him.

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notice katsuya is longer than bunta and manda is longer than katsuya.

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Then there's this attack which is the size of 5 bunta. The kazekage would roast in this for a few seconds. The speed and size of this attack doesn't leave them much breathing room. The heat would probably knock them out from heat stroke alone.

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Bunta's highspeed underground movement that would cause problems for the kazekage

Notice i haven't added the possibilty of a snake pretty much swallowing the kage. OR the bigger possibility of jiraiya using cave toad stomach to completely cut them off from the outside world. They aren't getting extra sand/dust/IS while sitting inside a toad. What they came in with his what they have, and in there jiraiya sense everything and is able to manipulate the intestinal lining to even attempt to crush them.

I await your rebuttal

He already owned you! And the entire base know my post alone owned you!

Give it up! You are clearly out of your league! But im glad you realize you are below me!

 

[Hafiz Dembos]

[/SPOILER]
no interest in responding to your illogical nonsense. Didn't read. Don't bother respond, won't read it either.


XD that was funny. Made me laugh haha, good one Anyway, let me counter your previous arguements.

1) Alright i read your post. But that could possibly be an exaggeration on deids part. C3 has alot of explosive force, but C0 did recarve a 5km radius and kill him. but it's possible C3 is stronger. One i was trying to state however, is that if manda were to slam his tale, gaara would have to keep effort on because manda doesn't need to lift his tale up. Gaara would have to remove it. Same goes for bunta's swords and what not. Whereas, with an explosion, the impact force is dissipated quickly. Whereas with the explosion gaara+kage has to make a very strong defence to last maybe 30 seconds, with the summonings he has to not only create the strong defence, but the use chakra to life them/throw them away from him as they have no reason to even move.

2)how did you counter frog song? Please copy paste i didn't see. Also rashomon weren't broken. 5 rashomon deflected the tbb but weren't damaged at all. I'd also need a scan of kiba denting a raushomon. Furthermore, a tbbs attack and gatsuga (assuming you're not referring to the anime where this happened) would carry more impact force than the sand wave. The sand would more push the rashoumon and try to tip it over instead of breaking through it.
I've recountered your summon counter as i've stated that gaara and kazekage's attacks are in no way able to reach bunta nor are they fast enough to deal a killing blow? they have to catch, restrain and then crush bunta. That's very unlikely considering a human kimimaro (far weaker than bunta) was able to power his way out of gaara's sand hold. And, 3rd raikage was able to repeat that same feat. The simple fact is that these summons (especially manda) are to quick to catch and restrain. Sure, the kazekage would be able to get a large mass of sand to them, but then to have enough time to restrain them with that much sand? These summons are nothing like the shukaku mind you. The shukaku was never shown to be an agile opponent, infact it seems to have the stationary fighting style like the kage which would fit how 4th was even able to restrain it. Bunta and manda are able to move, and move relatively quickly at that.

3) nothing suggest it was gaara's gourd sand forming full shukaku. Infact that's highly unlikely. His gourd sand allowed partial transformation, but full shukaku is a sand demon. All he did was attain full trasnformation, and seeing as shukaku is made of sand, he didn't need to actually form shukaku with sand. Same way bee doesn't have to use octopus and oil to form the hachibi on a full transformation.

Lastly, I'll add the scan (I really didn't want to have to start adding scans... mmh...)

You must be registered for see images

Bunta is double the height of shukaku here, and double his size in distance, at the apex of his jump. That means bunta can jump atleast 4 shukaku away. That's alot of distance for sand/dust to travel quickly. Even For IS to travel.

You must be registered for see images

but then, on the next page, we see that bunta actually traveled about 6 shukaku away. That is an exception distance to travel. Let me put this into perspective. So naruto is the size of bunta's eyeball, and naruto is roughly 4feet there. Bunta is easy 20x naruto's height so that already puts bunta at 8 stories high. Now, bunta was able to jump about 6 of it's self away. Being generous, thats about a distance 480 feet in a few seconds. the kage have to move a large mass of sand at least 500 feet to even catch bunta after a jump. This already becomes an incredibly difficult feat as the mass of sand alone they'll have to use to travel that distance is at least the size of a desert tsunami. That will put a heavy strain on their chakra doing all that work. and even if they were somehow fast enough to shoot that much sand, that far

You must be registered for see images

bunta was agile enough to dodge a high speed air bullet.

Notice how i've not even mentioned manda here yet, who is much faster than bunta and much bigger. notice i haven't even made the sannin help bunta defend, he's able to give the kage a hard time on his own. A fully released shukaku had it's hand chopped off by bunta and couldn't even get a hit on him.

You must be registered for see images

notice katsuya is longer than bunta and manda is longer than katsuya.

You must be registered for see images

Then there's this attack which is the size of 10 bunta in area. The kazekage would roast in this for a few seconds. The speed and size of this attack doesn't leave them much breathing room. The heat would probably knock them out from heat stroke alone.

You must be registered for see images

Bunta's highspeed underground movement that would cause problems for the kazekage

Notice i haven't added the possibilty of a snake pretty much swallowing the kage. OR the bigger possibility of jiraiya using cave toad stomach to completely cut them off from the outside world. They aren't getting extra sand/dust/IS while sitting inside a toad. What they came in with his what they have, and in there jiraiya sense everything and is able to manipulate the intestinal lining to even attempt to crush them.

I await your rebuttal

Nice debate, I could counter all that but you would not agree as usual. Please don't think that I have given up or that you have won, I am just tired of trying to convince you when you certainly would not agree with anything I say. Try linking "Genii" to this page he will definitely debate with you or you could debate with "Draegod" he seems to be interested. Thank you.

 

[AGoodBoy]

He already owned you! And the entire base know my post alone owned you!

Give it up! You are clearly out of your league! But im glad you realize you are below me!

nice bait post, but i just read the first page and realised it was garbage.
Use magnetism to pull a sword out of a 20ton+ frogs hand. Yea, ok hercules.

Nice debate, I could counter all that but you would not agree as usual. Please don't think that I have given up or that you have won, I am just tired of trying to convince you when you certainly would not agree with anything I say. Try linking "Genii" to this page he will definitely debate with you or you could debate with "Draegod" he seems to be interested. Thank you.

That's fine. I've debated with genii and i already know everything he'd have to say. I haven't really been trying to debate, just refuting points you raised.
As for debating draegon, I have no interest. Not on this topic at least. I've already skimmed the first 2 lines of his primary response.

EDIT: A debate is pretty much "I'm right, you're wrong. Here's why." In it's most basic form anyway but i was already tired of this. I don't like running around in circles lol

 

[Uchihagodzzz]

I think the Sannin win.

3rd Kazekage > 5th Kazekage > 4th Kazekage.

Orochimaru = Jiraiya > Tsunade.

Orochimaru would most likely beat the 3rd Kazekage. Orochimaru cannot die.

Jiraiya most likely beats Gaara. Sage Mode and great Ninjutsu. Better speed.

Tsunade likely defeats 4th Kazekage. He cannot kill her.

This ^ Not much more to say.

 

[jiraiya lives]

gamabunta's water style is enough to give the kazekage's trouble