[Discussion] Supernovas VS Ace

[Pervy Wrath]

1) You sure? I wasn't certain but I was pretty sure link me to a page please.

2) Aokiji lasted in a battle with Akainu for 10 days Ace lasted 10 seconds there's quite the difference especially considering the fact Magma was even more of a weakness to Aokiji than Ace's Mera Mera fruit.

3) Well I can't really say since I don't know Kid's full power yet but for him to attack Big Mam's ships he must be pretty strong if he's trying to take the head of a Yonkou.

Ace was deemed the strongest Rookie of his time not Luffy's or the other's Luffy's generation was called the worst generation because of how strong and dangerous they are and so what if Ace past 2 years of his rookie time what the hell has that got to do with anything you don't know how much stronger he got, not to mention he wasn't trained by the likes of Rayleigh or anyone and don't say Whitebeard trained him since you can't prove that either.

Ace was clearly above you say? so it's fact huh you seem incredibly butt hurt and seem to think your logic is completely right while pretty much everyone else is wrong? No the fact is Luffy and Law know Haki most likely Kid as well Ace's main advantage was he was a logia, and I'm not saying it would be easy but I think Ace would lose to post time skip Luffy, Law and Kid purely on the fact of their abilities.

And you can't assume Ace is stronger than every supernova on appearance either since if I remember you based Ace's strength on his bounty, while I base strength on facts on a unbiased opinion and what they could be now, you haven't even seen any of the other supernova since before the time skip yet you say Ace owns them all automatically please we haven't even seen Luffy or law's full power yet or any of the supernova so don't assume Ace is unbeatable to them until you see it.

I would like to argue just one thing: I think we have seen Law's full power when it comes to strength, but maybe not abilities. He cut up a fully Haki charged Vergo, plus he cut off a part of a mountain(or was that him splitting the island in half?). Granted, it seems that he has an easier time to cut people because of his DF. Other than that, I'm on your side. Mr. Fact clearly thinks he knows that Ace is stronger than them.

 

[VongolaX]

1) You sure? I wasn't certain but I was pretty sure link me to a page please.

2) Aokiji lasted in a battle with Akainu for 10 days Ace lasted 10 seconds there's quite the difference especially considering the fact Magma was even more of a weakness to Aokiji than Ace's Mera Mera fruit.

3) Well I can't really say since I don't know Kid's full power yet but for him to attack Big Mam's ships he must be pretty strong if he's trying to take the head of a Yonkou.

Ace was deemed the strongest Rookie of his time not Luffy's or the other's Luffy's generation was called the worst generation because of how strong and dangerous they are and so what if Ace past 2 years of his rookie time what the hell has that got to do with anything you don't know how much stronger he got, not to mention he wasn't trained by the likes of Rayleigh or anyone and don't say Whitebeard trained him since you can't prove that either.

Ace was clearly above you say? so it's fact huh you seem incredibly butt hurt and seem to think your logic is completely right while pretty much everyone else is wrong? No the fact is Luffy and Law know Haki most likely Kid as well Ace's main advantage was he was a logia, and I'm not saying it would be easy but I think Ace would lose to post time skip Luffy, Law and Kid purely on the fact of their abilities.

And you can't assume Ace is stronger than every supernova on appearance either since if I remember you based Ace's strength on his bounty, while I base strength on facts on a unbiased opinion and what they could be now, you haven't even seen any of the other supernova since before the time skip yet you say Ace owns them all automatically please we haven't even seen Luffy or law's full power yet or any of the supernova so don't assume Ace is unbeatable to them until you see it.

1) During the war in his flash back they mention him to join the schichibukai...He turned it down, and fought jinbei leaving it to a stalemate for 5 days (only a rookie). ( Ace's weakness too x4 logia/fire)

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In fact Ace fell afterwards, before the arrival of WB
The bounty i'm not entirely sure

2) Ace sacrifice himself to save luffy, even you are aware of that also akainu said it himself. His "defeat" during the clash is based on superiority of devil fruits Example: luffy vs Enel...

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3) Luffy generation was not rated the strongest but the most dangerous, they were too reckless and you have to include blackbeard too. You saw what Ace did to blackbeard, even shanks thinks blackbeard is a dangerous/powerful individual.
I'm also not going to say WB trained Ace, just look at all the pirates he was sent to fight that became WB ally.
If you look at the skypie arc, the front book showed ace fighting G-2 alone, while looking for blackbeard.
Luffy trained with Rayleigh, but there still people out there that think luffy is the 4 strongest supernova...He trained in haki, and he still yet to say he is stronger than Ace.

Just look at the baquo works, he destroyed like how many of their ships with a single punch.
Luffy can't even do that yet.

 

[VongolaX]

It's Mr. Fact! How do you know that Ace's bounty was at 550 million before he joined WB?

Have i ever steered you wrong? lol
Just an assumption though

 

[Pervy Wrath]

Have i ever steered you wrong? lol
Just an assumption though

Nah, it's just that you seem very biased when it comes to this subject.

 

[VongolaX]

Nah, it's just that you seem very biased when it comes to this subject.

Not enough credit, that's why...On a serious note Ace has a lot more experience ant time even before these rookies

 

[Pervy Wrath]

Not enough credit, that's why...On a serious note Ace has a lot more experience ant time even before these rookies

We are talking about Ace as in before he died, right? Not some hypothetical stuff where he's still alive now? He was a pirate for three years. Luffy has been a pirate/slash training for close to three years very soon himself. As for when Kid and Law and all those guys started, I don't know.

Ace has no proven feats of CoA or CoO. CoC doesn't matter against people like Luffy, Law and Kid, at least not that we know of. And he had no control over it anyways. I say Luffy wins high diff, Law and Kid loses high diff. I would mention X Drake as well, but we haven't seen anything from him Post TS, so I won't speculate on his current strength level.

 

[Pekoms]

Ace has no proven feats of CoA or CoO. CoC doesn't matter against people like Luffy, Law and Kid, at least not that we know of. And he had no control over it anyways. I say Luffy wins high diff, Law and Kid loses high diff.

Yes, until we see Eustass Kid demonstrating some strong Haki, which isn't unreasonable.
Law is harder to gauge, if he could secure Ace's heart than the battle would end there.

With that being said, I'd like to propose that once Zoro learns how to cut and generate flames, he'd be able to beat Ace.

 

[TheHokage]

1) During the war in his flash back they mention him to join the schichibukai...He turned it down, and fought jinbei leaving it to a stalemate for 5 days (only a rookie). ( Ace's weakness too x4 logia/fire)

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In fact Ace fell afterwards, before the arrival of WB
The bounty i'm not entirely sure

2) Ace sacrifice himself to save luffy, even you are aware of that also akainu said it himself. His "defeat" during the clash is based on superiority of devil fruits Example: luffy vs Enel...

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3) Luffy generation was not rated the strongest but the most dangerous, they were too reckless and you have to include blackbeard too. You saw what Ace did to blackbeard, even shanks thinks blackbeard is a dangerous/powerful individual.
I'm also not going to say WB trained Ace, just look at all the pirates he was sent to fight that became WB ally.
If you look at the skypie arc, the front book showed ace fighting G-2 alone, while looking for blackbeard.
Luffy trained with Rayleigh, but there still people out there that think luffy is the 4 strongest supernova...He trained in haki, and he still yet to say he is stronger than Ace.

Just look at the baquo works, he destroyed like how many of their ships with a single punch.
Luffy can't even do that yet.

1) He battled Jimbe for 5 days yes but it was 5 days on land it's been proven Jimbei is weaker on land than he is in water Ace had the advantage.

2) While there's some truth to this the same could be said about the battle between Aokiji and Akainu as well and Ace yeah he did sacrifice himself for Luffy but he would have lost anyway against Akainu and if Ace was as strong as you say why wasn't he using Haki then against Akainu, and Luffy and Enel was completely different Enel's weakness was Luffy (Rubber) while Ace's wasn't Magma Ace's weakness would be water.

3) What Ace did to Blackbeard? he got beat in a one on one it was a shame but that's just the way it was, and you can translate the worst generation however you see it but IMO it means they are the most dangerous and to be dangerous you need strength it's that simple. Are you trying to compare factions like G2 to that of a Supernova? and just because Luffy hasn't said he's stronger...that sounds like a weak argument Akainu hasn't said he's stronger than Kizaru does that make him weaker?

4) Again your comparing fodder to a Supernova Luffy could now destroy those ships with a gear 3rd, Law could destroy those ships with one swipe of his sword etc.

Your grasping for straws here.

 

[Pervy Wrath]

Yes, until we see Eustass Kid demonstrating some strong Haki, which isn't unreasonable.
Law is harder to gauge, if he could secure Ace's heart than the battle would end there.

With that being said, I'd like to propose that once Zoro learns how to cut and generate flames, he'd be able to beat Ace.

Yeah, I didn't really like to say Law would lose high diff. His DF is so extremely special that it's almost impossible to be in a prolonged fight with him, considering the size of his Room now. And yeah, Kid will definitely have very strong CoA, maybe a bit weaker in CoO, that's what I think.

 

[VongolaX]

1) He battled Jimbe for 5 days yes but it was 5 days on land it's been proven Jimbei is weaker on land than he is in water Ace had the advantage.

2) While there's some truth to this the same could be said about the battle between Aokiji and Akainu as well and Ace yeah he did sacrifice himself for Luffy but he would have lost anyway against Akainu and if Ace was as strong as you say why wasn't he using Haki then against Akainu, and Luffy and Enel was completely different Enel's weakness was Luffy (Rubber) while Ace's wasn't Magma Ace's weakness would be water.

3) What Ace did to Blackbeard? he got beat in a one on one it was a shame but that's just the way it was, and you can translate the worst generation however you see it but IMO it means they are the most dangerous and to be dangerous you need strength it's that simple. Are you trying to compare factions like G2 to that of a Supernova? and just because Luffy hasn't said he's stronger...that sounds like a weak argument Akainu hasn't said he's stronger than Kizaru does that make him weaker?

4) Again your comparing fodder to a Supernova Luffy could now destroy those ships with a gear 3rd, Law could destroy those ships with one swipe of his sword etc.

Your grasping for straws here.

1) What are you talking about? water was right next to jinbei the whole time. How else would WB sail towards jinbei and Ace after their fight. The ships like right next to them:

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2) Akainu said their fruit is based on superiority, meaning no matter how many time Ace uses his flames, they will do absolutely nothing. You don't know if Ace was using haki or not, the results would be the same (akainu has haki too)
just look what happened to WB, he fought with haki, and he still got half his face burned up.
Akainu has yet to lose to anyone below WB level, because so far even all the supernova's post timeskip (at once) would lose brutally to akainu. :|

3) Ace was one of the few people to give blackbeard a hard time, he had no idea that blackbeard can negate devil fruits yet he was able to hit him with his devil fruit, and take out blackbeards crew. Blackbeard said he's not that type of person to be trifled with...His G-2 on the other hand is merely a feat. I'm yet to see a supernova do that pre-timeskip.

Luffy has admitted that Ace is stronger than him, using akainu and kizaru is completely irrelevant and out of context, simply the fact that these two never confirmed which one is stronger. Luffy's words>>>your opinion hmm

4) Again, merely a feat...He did it with ease, and let's not forget one of luffy's strongest technique post-timeskip is Ace's regular signiture move Hiken. Also bringing in law into this is futile, considering the fact that he can't even top doflamingo.
All he did was cut a mountain size factory ice and beat vice admiral vergo who is somewhat in smokers level. Yet people still hype him up from one chapter that he can beat luffy or Ace in your case.

 

[VongolaX]

We are talking about Ace as in before he died, right? Not some hypothetical stuff where he's still alive now? He was a pirate for three years. Luffy has been a pirate/slash training for close to three years very soon himself. As for when Kid and Law and all those guys started, I don't know.

Ace has no proven feats of CoA or CoO. CoC doesn't matter against people like Luffy, Law and Kid, at least not that we know of. And he had no control over it anyways. I say Luffy wins high diff, Law and Kid loses high diff. I would mention X Drake as well, but we haven't seen anything from him Post TS, so I won't speculate on his current strength level.

He had no control over his kings haki? No, how would he be aware of it's power without being able to use it? He awakened it at age 8

 

[Pekoms]

Luffy has admitted that Ace is stronger than him, using akainu and kizaru is completely irrelevant and out of context, simply the fact that these two never confirmed which one is stronger. Luffy's words>>>your opinion hmm

Again, merely a feat...He did it with ease, and let's not forget one of luffy's strongest technique post-timeskip is Ace's regular signiture move Hiken. Also bringing in law into this is futile, considering the fact that he can't even top doflamingo.

Given that Luffy said Ace was stronger than him during the Alabasta arc... that's likely not accurate these days.
Trying to argue that Ace is still stronger than Luffy merely because the former hasn't stated he has isn't reasonable.
Characters don't necessarily have to verbally identify their power by using other characters as a gauge.

Comparing Luffy's attack to Ace's regular signature attack? Try again...
Gomu Gomu no Red Hawk: a Haki enhanced version of Gomu Gomu no Jet Bullet, after entering Gear Second.

• the flames are nothing more than a secondary nature to the attack, it's raw physical power is incredibly high

 

[VongolaX]

]Given that Luffy said Ace was stronger than him during the Alabasta arc... that's likely not accurate these days.[/B]
Trying to argue that Ace is still stronger than Luffy merely because the former hasn't stated he has isn't reasonable.
Characters don't necessarily have to verbally identify their power by using other characters as a gauge.

Comparing Luffy's attack to Ace's regular signature attack? Try again...
Gomu Gomu no Red Hawk: a Haki enhanced version of Gomu Gomu no Jet Bullet, after entering Gear Second.

• the flames are nothing more than a secondary nature to the attack, it's raw physical power is incredibly high

Just because we see luffy get stronger, doesn't mean Ace grows in strength too. During the marineford this was also stated, and Ace just said you got a little bit stronger too. Ace just doesn't stay in one level for the rest of his life, every character grows in power just like the main character.

Red hook was just as similar as hiken, and the point was made trying to make across is that, even in fire power it was still lower than Ace's.

 

[Pervy Wrath]

He had no control over his kings haki? No, how would he be aware of it's power without being able to use it? He awakened it at age 8

This is just so pointless. It's like you're just trolling. Luffy used CoC several times without knowing he had it. We've only seen Ace use it once, and it was in a dire moment, not because he trained with it.

 

[TheHokage]

1) What are you talking about? water was right next to jinbei the whole time. How else would WB sail towards jinbei and Ace after their fight. The ships like right next to them:

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2) Akainu said their fruit is based on superiority, meaning no matter how many time Ace uses his flames, they will do absolutely nothing. You don't know if Ace was using haki or not, the results would be the same (akainu has haki too)
just look what happened to WB, he fought with haki, and he still got half his face burned up.
Akainu has yet to lose to anyone below WB level, because so far even all the supernova's post timeskip (at once) would lose brutally to akainu. :|

3) Ace was one of the few people to give blackbeard a hard time, he had no idea that blackbeard can negate devil fruits yet he was able to hit him with his devil fruit, and take out blackbeards crew. Blackbeard said he's not that type of person to be trifled with...His G-2 on the other hand is merely a feat. I'm yet to see a supernova do that pre-timeskip.

Luffy has admitted that Ace is stronger than him, using akainu and kizaru is completely irrelevant and out of context, simply the fact that these two never confirmed which one is stronger. Luffy's words>>>your opinion hmm

4) Again, merely a feat...He did it with ease, and let's not forget one of luffy's strongest technique post-timeskip is Ace's regular signiture move Hiken. Also bringing in law into this is futile, considering the fact that he can't even top doflamingo.
All he did was cut a mountain size factory ice and beat vice admiral vergo who is somewhat in smokers level. Yet people still hype him up from one chapter that he can beat luffy or Ace in your case.

1) But they battled on land it's not a matter of could have.

2) Akainu said his Devil fruit was superior to Ace's because Magma was hotter than flames and that's how Ace was burnt, also your right I don't know if Ace was using Haki but I do know if he was it wasn't that strong. Since Haki is a way to hit Logia users. I haven't disagreed with Ace not being strong just no as strong as you think he was as Blackbeard said Ace wasn't someone to be trifled with yet he was confident that he could beat Ace maybe he was baiting Ace to attack him so he could hand him over the the marine's so he could be a warlord as Ace said he wasn't going to let him get Luffy.

Also Akainu attacked WB with a magma attack that was fired at him not a clear punch WB would have never of been hit if he wasn't sick and I don't see your point Akainu is in the top 3 strongest alive characters IMO so I'm not going to deny none of the Supernova could beat Akainu like Ace couldn't..

3) Luffy had no idea what Blackbeard could do yet he still landed a punch on Blackbeard and was still ready to fight, this was pre-time skip Luffy so your logic fails there Blackbeard has a disadvantage with the Yami Yami No Mi as it draws everything dark in e.g Devil fruits...and okay so Ace beat G2...an amazing feat by the way Luffy defeated a thousand navy soldiers on Enies Lobby by himself.

Luffy admitted Ace was strong pre-time skip get over it that was 2 years ago for them and before his training stop living in the past, and if you want to get technical Luffy defeated an ex admiral who Kizaru had trouble with Z and don't say it's a movie (Non canon) since Oda was the one who wrote the story making it (canon)

4) Not really a feat destroying ships they weren't exactly marine battle ships that Luffy has shown he can crush with gear 2nd and Law has split a battle ship with one slice no effort, your fanboying of Ace can only go so far it's not really that much of a feat to destroy some ships that some fodder had...again you assume Law can't take Doflamingo it's not proof he's confident enough to do this stuff to Donflamingo so he must have something.

A few quotes from you where really stupid:

'All he did was cut a mountain size factory and beat vice admiral Vergo who is somewhat in smoker's league' -This here is stupid your amazed over Ace destroying some fodder ship yet not by Law cutting a moutain in half with a sword?

Smoker is was not on Vergo's level he was getting beat without Law there he would have been killed.

Also for the record I've never thought once Law could beat Luffy, I still have doubts in Law beating Ace but I know for a fact he has a chance of winning unlike you who say's Ace could win easily.

 

[Itachi Minato]

I dont think any of the supernovas could beat ace yet. I think he would win midd diff against luffy, Kidd and Law. Let be honest ace got trolled badly getting beat by the two of the strongest current alive character. Fleet admiaral and a yonkou.( Yes I know he was not one at the time but still..)

 

[Pekoms]

Just because we see luffy get stronger, doesn't mean Ace grows in strength too. During the marineford this was also stated, and Ace just said you got a little bit stronger too. Ace just doesn't stay in one level for the rest of his life, every character grows in power just like the main character.

Red hook was just as similar as hiken, and the point was made trying to make across is that, even in fire power it was still lower than Ace's.

Except Ace is now dead... ~_~

If you feel every character has room to grow, then accept that Luffy's training/work for two years means something.
Ace is undoubtedly strong but it's not like he sat around training under one of the most well known pirates of all time.
Ace lost to Blackbeard. Now, Luffy can negate his intangibility, just like Teach, except he's much faster and less cocky.​

 

[VongolaX]

This is just so pointless. It's like you're just trolling. Luffy used CoC several times without knowing he had it. We've only seen Ace use it once, and it was in a dire moment, not because he trained with it.

Except the difference is that Ace knew he had kings haki, luffy didn't.
How do you awaken it at the age of 8, and not know how to use it, when your captain can use
his as well? There is a difference between common sense and trolling, it's up to you to decipher the difference in vocabulary.

 

[VongolaX]

1) But they battled on land it's not a matter of could have.

2) Akainu said his Devil fruit was superior to Ace's because Magma was hotter than flames and that's how Ace was burnt, also your right I don't know if Ace was using Haki but I do know if he was it wasn't that strong. Since Haki is a way to hit Logia users. I haven't disagreed with Ace not being strong just no as strong as you think he was as Blackbeard said Ace wasn't someone to be trifled with yet he was confident that he could beat Ace maybe he was baiting Ace to attack him so he could hand him over the the marine's so he could be a warlord as Ace said he wasn't going to let him get Luffy.

Also Akainu attacked WB with a magma attack that was fired at him not a clear punch WB would have never of been hit if he wasn't sick and I don't see your point Akainu is in the top 3 strongest alive characters IMO so I'm not going to deny none of the Supernova could beat Akainu like Ace couldn't..

3) Luffy had no idea what Blackbeard could do yet he still landed a punch on Blackbeard and was still ready to fight, this was pre-time skip Luffy so your logic fails there Blackbeard has a disadvantage with the Yami Yami No Mi as it draws everything dark in e.g Devil fruits...and okay so Ace beat G2...an amazing feat by the way Luffy defeated a thousand navy soldiers on Enies Lobby by himself.

Luffy admitted Ace was strong pre-time skip get over it that was 2 years ago for them and before his training stop living in the past, and if you want to get technical Luffy defeated an ex admiral who Kizaru had trouble with Z and don't say it's a movie (Non canon) since Oda was the one who wrote the story making it (canon)

4) Not really a feat destroying ships they weren't exactly marine battle ships that Luffy has shown he can crush with gear 2nd and Law has split a battle ship with one slice no effort, your fanboying of Ace can only go so far it's not really that much of a feat to destroy some ships that some fodder had...again you assume Law can't take Doflamingo it's not proof he's confident enough to do this stuff to Donflamingo so he must have something.

A few quotes from you where really stupid:

'All he did was cut a mountain size factory and beat vice admiral Vergo who is somewhat in smoker's league' -This here is stupid your amazed over Ace destroying some fodder ship yet not by Law cutting a moutain in half with a sword?

Smoker is was not on Vergo's level he was getting beat without Law there he would have been killed.

Also for the record I've never thought once Law could beat Luffy, I still have doubts in Law beating Ace but I know for a fact he has a chance of winning unlike you who say's Ace could win easily.

1) As long as there is water, he can still use it effectively in battle, what is he gonna do...Leave the water there instead of using it to fight?

3) If that battle continued any further, you know what the results are and even jinbei noted to luffy that blackbeard is powerful, just because he took down Ace.

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4) Ace took down fleets of ship, your just mentioning one ship...
I'm not a fanboy of Ace, that title holds to the likes of crocodile/Mihawk, your biased mind cannot comprehend that.
I can tell that you woprship Luffy and Law just by your comment, because everyone knows that doflamingo would destroy law in a one on one fight. Why do you think he kidnap Cesear? He should of just waited on the island, so keep your fanboy logic to yourself and stop misleading others.


Now for your stupid quotes and reasoning:
Before hand Law wasn't perceived as anything extraordinary, until he cut a mountain.
All right then, Ace created a fire ball half the size of the island, i thought you were rational enough to remember all of Ace's feats (clearly i was wrong) Mihawk did the same feat pre-timeskip with ease, and 3rd commander diamond jozu threw an iceburg the size of a marine giant with pure strength.
So if you really want to go into depth there i can, i was waiting to see if you came to your senses.


Have you gone senile? Smoker when fight vergo set his sights on getting the heart back, and even Vergo realize he was using amateur attacks

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After that, he sacrifice himself to help Law, and you should know that wasn't a serious fight on smokers part or should i bring up the scan of smoker hitting vergo around? He said it himself "that's what you were aiming for all along."

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[VongolaX]

Except Ace is now dead... ~_~

If you feel every character has room to grow, then accept that Luffy's training/work for two years means something.
Ace is undoubtedly strong but it's not like he sat around training under one of the most well known pirates of all time.
Ace lost to Blackbeard. Now, Luffy can negate his intangibility, just like Teach, except he's much faster and less cocky.​

No doubt, luffy's training means something and that is why to me he is the strongest supernova of his generation and the new one. Ace doesn't stay there with WB and train to get stronger every day which is correct, but he is sent on missions and he fights opposing marines/pirates like luffy does to get stronger correct? So with luffy's increase of power, Ace sure in mind grows everyday as well. Now that he is dead, he is now closer into getting stronger than Ace, as far as we know in the chapter. If he soloes Doflamingo and win a flawless victory, then i will agree that luffy undoubtedly stronger than Ace.