Suggestion to improve suggestion's

[~Yubel~]

I've seen people who have done amazing suggestion, came with ideas that were complete genius, almost no flaw to it but have gotten declined, ignored and looked down on sometimes based on reasons that is not satisfying such as "it's too much of a hassle".

So here is my suggestion to you member's, when you come with an idea that you think would improve NB, write the thread and post it, make sure it is the finalized form of your suggestion, a complete idea that has been put to work by yourself. What i'm saying is, don't hold back. Submit the full suggestion and make sure to cover the possible arguments that could rise against your suggestion.

Have it complete because apparently it would seem the mods want the full suggestion at hand, look at it and add it to the "system" so to speak without any extra work on their part so in order to increase the chances that your suggestion gets through and not declined, put work to your suggestion and polish it before submitting the complete form and make sure to look at your suggestion from the opposite perspective and cover the arguments but if there are too many "holes" in your suggestion then chances are it's not going to get through.

But this would increase your chances and prevent the member's from giving up on this section because of ideas that would shine with a bit of work that mods can't bother to look at the potential but apparently would rather have it complete and simple to implement.
This is a suggestion thread to improve people's suggestion threads so i have nothing more to say.

Peace.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Good advice, though this shouldn't be needed to be said.

 

[Hipster Madara]

What's the point of this? (probably just want this stickied)

 

[Cpt Long Schlong]

So what you're saying is; Do what we should originally do and make sure our idea's are thought through and presented well?

People who take their own suggestions seriously do it anyway.

Plus Mods / Admins never decline an idea purely on 'too much hassle', they will say that, but there will be massive flaws to the idea that would just not be practical. They will also base their decision on popularity of the idea and the need of it.

Too much hassle is a paraphrase of what they really mean.

In short, if a idea is fantastic, highly desired by users and viable, Mods / Admins will work their socks off to get it done. Most of the time it isn't.

 

[Josh]

Sometimes suggestions, no matter how good they sound, are not actually feasible. Also, just because a suggestion is flawless, doesn't mean it is necessary or actually can be implemented. Your suggestion is actually a perfect example: Even if members follow your advice and completely think through their suggestion; it does not mean it will be implemented.

It's great advice and enhances the quality of the suggestions that are posted, but it isn't a guaranteed method of success. The suggestion itself can also be it's own downfall (Like the mini-mods idea). Some things are really "cool," but aren't necessary. Sometimes functionality supersedes how "cool" something would be. I will agree that having a completed suggestion definitely makes it more likely to be taken seriously.

 

[~Yubel~]

Sometimes suggestions, no matter how good they sound, are not actually feasible. Also, just because a suggestion is flawless, doesn't mean it is necessary or actually can be implemented. Your suggestion is actually a perfect example: Even if members follow your advice and completely think through their suggestion; it does not mean it will be implemented.

It's great advice and enhances the quality of the suggestions that are posted, but it isn't a guaranteed method of success. The suggestion itself can also be it's own downfall (Like the mini-mods idea). Some things are really "cool," but aren't necessary. Sometimes functionality supersedes how "cool" something would be. I will agree that having a completed suggestion definitely makes it more likely to be taken seriously.

If an idea is good, has been presented in a clear, simple way, have given a way of how to implement it easily and has support from member's then i don't see why that would be declined unless there are some techniqual issue's preventing it but i hope my suggestion helps because i don't want to see great ideas getting shut down so easily. Hopefully, you'll reconsider on your part aswell before declining ideas, hopefully.

 

[Scorps]

What you fail to understand, even when Sveti explained it quite clearly, is that even if you feel a suggestion is good, cool, usefull, feasible and can be implemented, it doesn't mean it is.

We don't "decline" suggestions based on the hard work it may send our way. We don't "decline" suggestions based on the "just because" factor. We "decline" them because they are, 99% of the time, not possible or not feasible or simply useless. Regardless of how cool you think your suggestion is, that doesn't make it so. It is what it is. And having support from members is not enough and plays little to no role in it.

Example:

-Lets say you come here and suggest that from now on, every bio can be made without restrictions or battle tests. Its easy to implement, you'll think its ubber cool and needed and I bet 300 members will say yes and support the idea.

However, the idea in itself is so ridiculous and out of tune with the RP and what's been built that it can't ever in a million years be implemented.


One thing members should have is a bit more faith and trust in us. We do a fantastic job to keep this community running. We do it for FREE. We gain nothing, not even community perks, for it. We do it because we love the community. We are picked by the ones who own the site, meaning that the requirements they deem necessary for members to moderate their community are met by each and everyone of us. This said, we are members who "know best" what is good for the community or not. If something isn't implemented or put into practice its because it simply wasn't:

-feasible
-logic
-useful
-needed

Simple as that

 

[~Yubel~]

What you fail to understand, even when Sveti explained it quite clearly, is that even if you feel a suggestion is good, cool, usefull, feasible and can be implemented, it doesn't mean it is.

We don't "decline" suggestions based on the hard work it may send our way. We don't "decline" suggestions based on the "just because" factor. We "decline" them because they are, 99% of the time, not possible or not feasible or simply useless. Regardless of how cool you think your suggestion is, that doesn't make it so. It is what it is. And having support from members is not enough and plays little to no role in it.

Example:

-Lets say you come here and suggest that from now on, every bio can be made without restrictions or battle tests. Its easy to implement, you'll think its ubber cool and needed and I bet 300 members will say yes and support the idea.

However, the idea in itself is so ridiculous and out of tune with the RP and what's been built that it can't ever in a million years be implemented.


One thing members should have is a bit more faith and trust in us. We do a fantastic job to keep this community running. We do it for FREE. We gain nothing, not even community perks, for it. We do it because we love the community. We are picked by the ones who own the site, meaning that the requirements they deem necessary for members to moderate their community are met by each and everyone of us. This said, we are members who "know best" what is good for the community or not. If something isn't implemented or put into practice its because it simply wasn't:

-feasible
-logic
-useful
-needed

Simple as that

I understood Sveti's post and yours too. But i doubt there would be anyone who would suggest the above and even if it happened would get little to no support, most understand the problem's it would cause for the site. So does demogracy exist at all in this site?

 

[Scorps]

I understood Sveti's post and yours too. But i doubt there would be anyone who would suggest the above and even if it happened would get little to no support, most understand the problem's it would cause for the site. So does demogracy exist at all in this site?

Demogracy doesn't exist here... nor here nor anywhere. As for Democracy, nope. Why not?

Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives. Democracy allows people to participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws. It encompasses social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination. It originates from the Greek: δημοκρατία (dēmokratía) "rule of the people", which was coined from δῆμος (dêmos) "people" and κράτος (kratos) "power", circa 400 BC, to denote the political systems then existing in Greek city-states, notably Athens. Other cultures since Greece have significantly contributed to the evolution of democracy such as Ancient Rome, Europe, and North and South America.
A democratic government contrasts to forms of government where power is either held by one, as in a monarchy, or where power is held by a small number of individuals, as in an oligarchy or aristocracy. Nevertheless, these oppositions, inherited from Greek philosophy, are now ambiguous because contemporary governments have mixed democratic, oligarchic, and monarchic elements. Karl Popper defined democracy in contrast to dictatorship or tyranny, thus focusing on opportunities for the people to control their leaders and to oust them without the need for a revolution.
Several variants of democracy exist, but there are two basic forms, both of which concern how the whole body of citizens—the sovereign power in any variant of democracy—executes its will. One form of democracy is direct democracy, in which citizens have direct and active participation in the decision making of the government. In most modern democracies, the whole body of citizens remain the sovereign power but political power is exercised indirectly through elected representatives; this is called representative democracy. The concept of representative democracy arose largely from ideas and institutions that developed during the European Middle Ages and the Age of Enlightenment and in the American and French Revolutions.

Nb is not a democracy. Its a Community hosted by Versuvio and the other admins and open to the public for free. It not a country. Its a forum. As such, the staff members are chosen by the owners of the site, not by its members. We follow not the desires and wishes of the members but the guidelines given to us by the Admins to moderate the site and its members. Those guidelines are pretty easy to understand and are very clear in the disclaimer you check and approve when joining and in the global rules of the forum.

This said, we aren't an unfair community. Regardless of how the trolls and other infract prone members feel. The community has rules which you agree to follow when you make an account. If you feel those rules are unfair or if you simply don't agree, you have a good easy solution. No one makes you come to NB. You come of your own free will and make an account where you agree to follow its rules. From that point forward, if you break the rules you must take the consequences. Its fair and simple. And we always listen and read through every single suggestion and explain why its either a good idea or not. You even have a section to post any suggestion towards the site to improve it. If we were unfair or if it was a "oppressive" community, you wouldn't have even that choice.

So, no we aren't a democracy but we aren't also an unfair community. Don't mix both because they aren't related.

As I said:

One thing members should have is a bit more faith and trust in us. We do a fantastic job to keep this community running. We do it for FREE. We gain nothing, not even community perks, for it. We do it because we love the community. We are picked by the ones who own the site, meaning that the requirements they deem necessary for members to moderate their community are met by each and everyone of us. This said, we are members who "know best" what is good for the community or not. If something isn't implemented or put into practice its because it simply wasn't:

-feasible
-logic
-useful
-needed

 

[AmaniPaz]

Nothing worse than lazy admins. Not saying NB has them, I'm just saying I hate them. This is some good advice bro

 

[~Yubel~]

Demogracy doesn't exist here... nor here nor anywhere. As for Democracy, nope. Why not?



Nb is not a democracy. Its a Community hosted by Versuvio and the other admins and open to the public for free. It not a country. Its a forum. As such, the staff members are chosen by the owners of the site, not by its members. We follow not the desires and wishes of the members but the guidelines given to us by the Admins to moderate the site and its members. Those guidelines are pretty easy to understand and are very clear in the disclaimer you check and approve when joining and in the global rules of the forum.

This said, we aren't an unfair community. Regardless of how the trolls and other infract prone members feel. The community has rules which you agree to follow when you make an account. If you feel those rules are unfair or if you simply don't agree, you have a good easy solution. No one makes you come to NB. You come of your own free will and make an account where you agree to follow its rules. From that point forward, if you break the rules you must take the consequences. Its fair and simple. And we always listen and read through every single suggestion and explain why its either a good idea or not. You even have a section to post any suggestion towards the site to improve it. If we were unfair or if it was a "oppressive" community, you wouldn't have even that choice.

So, no we aren't a democracy but we aren't also an unfair community. Don't mix both because they aren't related.

As I said:

So if the member's of the site wanted something that you don't agree with but is not bad for the site either, you won't care simply because you "know what's best"? The ones who own this site had enough faith in you when you were a member, now as a moderator i think you should do the same.
So drop that notion, nobody knows what's best, it's all a matter of opinion. I can claim that aswell but you wouldn't believe me because i'm not blue.
Yes, you're not an "opressive" community because then we wouldn't have a choice but you can't afford that anyway. The Community has part in running this site too, you shouldn't directly oppose what "we" want because "you" are trying to make the site best for "us".

 

[-S-]

None of this is needed, besides, I hate to say it, but 20% of the Base will actually do what you said.

As for suggestions being accepted, it really does depend on what it is.

A long time ago, I once put in the suggestion of 'Vs Threads' to stop appearing the 'Latest Threads' and it got accepted. Because it benefited the base.

I then recently made a suggestion for 'most repped today', and a lot of members agreed. But it was declined for other reasons which were explained.

So, essentially, what I'm trying to say, is not all suggestions have to be accepted. If your suggestion is rejected, it's not because mods and admins don't care, because many suggestions are being accepted all the time. Your suggestion is probably just not beneficial.

 

[Scorps]

So if the member's of the site wanted something that you don't agree with but is not bad for the site either, you won't care simply because you "know what's best"? The ones who own this site had enough faith in you when you were a member, now as a moderator i think you should do the same.
So drop that notion, nobody knows what's best, it's all a matter of opinion. I can claim that aswell but you wouldn't believe me because i'm not blue.
Yes, you're not an "opressive" community because then we wouldn't have a choice but you can't afford that anyway. The Community has part in running this site too, you shouldn't directly oppose what "we" want because "you" are trying to make the site best for "us".

As I said:

And we always listen and read through every single suggestion and explain why its either a good idea or not. You even have a section to post any suggestion towards the site to improve it.

You are talking as if we simply disregard suggestions "just because" when its not accurate.

If something isn't implemented or put into practice its because it simply wasn't:

-feasible
-logic
-useful
-needed

Regardless of what you think about your own suggestions or the suggestions of others, you need to trust our judgement when we deem it either viable or not. Because, like i said, our decisions and our opinions are based on the knowledge of what you, as normal members, can see and "feel" of the forum but also based on everything you cannot see or perceive or even have the slightest idea. You, as a member, don't even grasp what we discuss or what we as a staff work on daily because tbh, you as a member don't have to know. We "know best" because have more information and knowledge of the site and the community than you have as a member. So, if we say a suggestion wouldn't work out, it means we evaluated it, measured it, discussed about it and deemed it nor viable. Its not a case of Scorps or Zenryoku or Caliburn not liking it. Suggestions aren't subjected to only one staff members opinion.

What all members should do is to trust the staff and our decisions.

 

[~Yubel~]

None of this is needed, besides, I hate to say it, but 20% of the Base will actually do what you said.

As for suggestions being accepted, it really does depend on what it is.

A long time ago, I once put in the suggestion of 'Vs Threads' to stop appearing the 'Latest Threads' and it got accepted. Because it benefited the base.

I then recently made a suggestion for 'most repped today', and a lot of members agreed. But it was declined for other reasons which were explained.

So, essentially, what I'm trying to say, is not all suggestions have to be accepted. If your suggestion is rejected, it's not because mods and admins don't care, because many suggestions are being accepted all the time. Your suggestion is probably just not beneficial.

I know that and this thread isn't to argue about why suggestion's get declined. It is to simply help member's have their ideas get through, nothing more nothing less.

 

[-S-]

I know that and this thread isn't to argue about why suggestion's get declined. It is to simply help member's have their ideas get through, nothing more nothing less.

I know ^^

But the suggestion you put forth is how I set out my own suggestions, so I thought it should be common sense to do so.

So most people will ignore this thread, and continue to post badly laid out suggestions which aren't thought through.

But even sometimes, decorating up your suggestion is futile, because there are obvious flaws with the suggestion.

 

[~Yubel~]

I know ^^

But the suggestion you put forth is how I set out my own suggestions, so I thought it should be common sense to do so.

So most people will ignore this thread, and continue to post badly laid out suggestions which aren't thought through.

But even sometimes, decorating up your suggestion is futile, because there are obvious flaws with the suggestion.

Why you keep making pointless assumptions?
If you did that then good for you, you've done what i'm trying to have others do to succeed in their suggestion's just like you did so in a sense you're the proof of my advice.xd
You made a suggestion that got approved, i was also wondering why vs threads didn't show before, you made a difference in the site, good for you.^^

Alot of people usually put out their suggestions but then go like "it's not complete but i can do the rest" or "this is all i have so far" or "i didn't post the full suggestion because i first wanted to see what others thought" and then end up having to answer a whole bunch of questions and arguments in the post's untill Scorps, Sveti or another mod closes it.

A suggestion shouldn't be incomplete anyway, you should know what you want to happen and not hope that others will agree or do the work for you. If you post half-assed suggestion's then you can expect half result's. That's what i'm saying.

 

[-S-]

Why you keep making pointless assumptions?
If you did that then good for you, you've done what i'm trying to have others do to succeed in their suggestion's just like you did so in a sense you're the proof of my advice.xd
You made a suggestion that got approved, i was also wondering why vs threads didn't show before, you made a difference in the site, good for you.^^

Alot of people usually put out their suggestions but then go like "it's not complete but i can do the rest" or "this is all i have so far" or "i didn't post the full suggestion because i first wanted to see what others thought" and then end up having to answer a whole bunch of questions and arguments in the post's untill Scorps, Sveti or another mod closes it.

A suggestion shouldn't be incomplete anyway, you should know what you want to happen and not hope that others will agree or do the work for you. If you post half-assed suggestion's then you can expect half result's. That's what i'm saying.

@Bold, isn't a thread like this for people's opinions?

Like I said already, most members already do this, so how do you expect this thread to make any difference?

It's like having the 'Tobi identity' stickied thread, yet people still make their own threads. >_>

And no one should have to post an incomplete thread, they could simply 'preview the thread' and build on it, instead of being hasty and submitting it. I find it rather stupid that anyone should post an incomplete thread, because that's just spam. If I were a mod, I would have closed the incomplete threads, because it's just a waste of time and space in the suggestions section.

Even those who make complex suggestion threads with the goods and bads, doesn't mean it stands an extra chance of being accepted. By stating the bads, you might even just make it worse for yourself.

Even if you go all the way to find the bads in your suggestion, there's no point in even submitting it. This is because, despite it being an awesome and cool idea, the bads will just hinder and burden the site.

_______________________________________________________________

However... what you could say, is 'if you post an incomplete thread, your idea should be rejected, because it is spam and you will be infracted'.

This would be a good way or rephrasing your thread as members will then be more aware that they should post a more detailed thread. Mods might also agree to this as it's a good way of preventing useless threads building up in this section that they constantly have to close.

This had proven in the 'Forum Games' where if you double post, you lose 200 posts. This makes people delete their double posts more and reduce spam.

 

[~Yubel~]

@Bold, isn't a thread like this for people's opinions?

Like I said already, most members already do this, so how do you expect this thread to make any difference?

It's like having the 'Tobi identity' stickied thread, yet people still make their own threads. >_>

And no one should have to post an incomplete thread, they could simply 'preview the thread' and build on it, instead of being hasty and submitting it. I find it rather stupid that anyone should post an incomplete thread, because that's just spam. If I were a mod, I would have closed the incomplete threads, because it's just a waste of time and space in the suggestions section.

Even those who make complex suggestion threads with the goods and bads, doesn't mean it stands an extra chance of being accepted. By stating the bads, you might even just make it worse for yourself.

Even if you go all the way to find the bads in your suggestion, there's no point in even submitting it. This is because, despite it being an awesome and cool idea, the bads will just hinder and burden the site.

_______________________________________________________________

However... what you could say, is 'if you post an incomplete thread, your idea should be rejected, because it is spam and you will be infracted'.

This would be a good way or rephrasing your thread as members will then be more aware that they should post a more detailed thread. Mods might also agree to this as it's a good way of preventing useless threads building up in this section that they constantly have to close.

This had proven in the 'Forum Games' where if you double post, you lose 200 posts. This makes people delete their double posts more and reduce spam.

Your modship wouldn't last long if you did that, infracting because the member tried to help the site by posting a suggestion(though not complete) in hopes of doing his part in contributing and improving the site is not how you about it.

Also, you don't seem to understand, almost no one post complete and finished suggestion's on here and if you are one that does you would probably be one of the few people who does so. Don't think everyone do this because i assure you 9/10 they do not.

Also, writing counter-argument's for the bad stuff would be a good idea but you can always keep in mind incase someone brings it up.

 

[-S-]

Your modship wouldn't last long if you did that, infracting because the member tried to help the site by posting a suggestion(though not complete) in hopes of doing his part in contributing and improving the site is not how you about it.

Also, you don't seem to understand, you would probably one of the few people who write down complete suggestion's, don't think everyone do this because i assure you they don't.

Also, writing counter-argument's for the bad stuff would be a good idea but you can always keep in mind incase someone brings it up.

Nah, I was just saying, I would have done what you said Sveti and Scorps d0 in the OP.

@Bold, Now your suggestion was good, but now that's just making yourself feel better, so you don't have to face the fact that someone thought of a negative about your post, which is not what I thought you intended.

What I initially thought you meant was that you could bring up the negatives, so you could explain why they wouldn't hinder the site as much.

____________________________________

But nevermind, I came up with a resolve at the end of my last post, but I guess we can't come to a compromise. So I guess anything else I say here is pointless.

 

[~Yubel~]

Nah, I was just saying, I would have done what you said Sveti and Scorps d0 in the OP.

@Bold, Now your suggestion was good, but now that's just making yourself feel better, so you don't have to face the fact that someone thought of a negative about your post, which is not what I thought you intended.

What I initially thought you meant was that you could bring up the negatives, so you could explain why they wouldn't hinder the site as much.

____________________________________

But nevermind, I came up with a resolve at the end of my last post, but I guess we can't come to a compromise. So I guess anything else I say here is pointless.

That's what i said.