Hashirama pulled a win against one of the strongest shinobi ever, despite the latter using the full force of Kurama's power.
Tobirama was outpacing his own allies in both reflexes and combat speed at points and even surprised a Juubi Jin. Alongside dodging SM RG Madara's physical attacks, all whilst not in a prime stat.
want to know the difference between an Edo and the true form? Look at how much stronger Madara was with no eyes compared to his Edo form.
Hashirama is one who has attained a divine power alone, without power up and without being Jinchuuriki ... is the true God of Shinobi and always will be
Tobirama he invented the best techniques of manga.
Hashirama is one who has attained a divine power alone, without power up and without being Jinchuuriki ... is the true God of Shinobi and always will be
Tobirama he invented the best techniques of manga.
Hashirama pulled a win against one of the strongest shinobi ever, despite the latter using the full force of Kurama's power.
Tobirama was outpacing his own allies in both reflexes and combat speed at points and even surprised a Juubi Jin. Alongside dodging SM RG Madara's physical attacks, all whilst not in a prime stat.
want to know the difference between an Edo and the true form? Look at how much stronger Madara was with no eyes compared to his Edo form.
Huh, I never thought they were quite fodder by I thought they'd be lower caliber shinobi. The scaling of Tobirama's suiton dragon is pretty outlandish, I did not remember it being comparable to Mei's. The nativity of world of tree comparison I feel is a bit off, because regardless, Madara's looks far more imposing and larger then what Hashirama used. Unless that was just what he could do under the Edo Tensei limitations, but that'd just openly clash with the premise ya' made in the thread about them being equal or so to their living halves and this being similar to Pein's jutsu.
The take on Orochimaru's part 1 Edo Tensei jutsu is pretty interesting, all around though. Nice find/thread.
Huh, I never thought they were quite fodder by I thought they'd be lower caliber shinobi. The scaling of Tobirama's suiton dragon is pretty outlandish, I did not remember it being comparable to Mei's. The nativity of world of tree comparison I feel is a bit off, because regardless, Madara's looks far more imposing and larger then what Hashirama used. Unless that was just what he could do under the Edo Tensei limitations, but that'd just openly clash with the premise ya' made in the thread about them being equal or so to their living halves and this being similar to Pein's jutsu.
The take on Orochimaru's part 1 Edo Tensei jutsu is pretty interesting, all around though. Nice find/thread.
His forbidden ninjustus alone are the most powerful thing.
That's one of the reasons why he's one of my favorites in this series.
Hashirama on the other hand may not be a fodder, but his senseless fapboys put him above people he can't possibly survive.
And that's when the term "fodder," is appropriate to use in that context.
How to tell if someone is a fodder,
1. are they kiba or ten ten?
If yes then they are a fodder, if no they are not.
Simple as that.
We didnt get to see them alive and fighting but they were the first 2 hokages, im guessing they were alright.
His forbidden ninjustus alone are the most powerful thing.
That's one of the reasons why he's one of my favorites in this series.
Hashirama on the other hand may not be a fodder, but his senseless fapboys put him above people he can't possibly survive.
And that's when the term "fodder," is appropriate to use in that context.
They were credited for being the highest kage level fight in part one.
But they're level of fighting fell short into comparison of VOTE 1 naruto/sasuke.
Hiruzen at his age was very senile compared to his prime, but he moved well regardless.
Hiruzen's Enma staff ripped through Hashirama's mokuton with ease and fought to a standstill with Tobirama against old man Hiruzen.
Hiruzen was able to catch and extract Tobirama and Hashirama, which says something in itself.
They were like at 50% Edo tensei anyway, we can't through them all the way up there with part 1 feats.
I'll put them on par with the three sennins part 1.
They were like at 50% Edo tensei anyway, we can't through them all the way up there with part 1 feats.
I'll put them on par with the three sennins part 1.
That's why I said they are mediocre, because compared to part two that fight was basically nothing.
Naruto and Sasuke's fight was on a height scale of power. That's all
Nothing indicates that they are fodder.
I circled Hiruzen and the base board of Hashirama Mokuton just to show you what a human-size looks like in comparison. Clearly both scale nearly close to each other in size and the width of the Mokuton is almost about the same, and can be used as much as a platform to each other [
The span of mokuton used by edo Madara or Shippuden Hashirama is far more expansive than part one Hashirama's usage. Not to mention the destructive power of edo Madara's jukai koutan is far greater considering it
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Onoki's
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whereas
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. Not to mention that jukai koutan branches at their maximum thickness (
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) are
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than any of part one Hashirama's jukai koutan. Edo Madara's jukai koutan was still growing when you compared it with part one Hashirama's fully grown jukai koutan.
Lets look at Tobirama. Again I am using the same format: a human-size compare to the jutsu.
Tobirama's Water Dragon:
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Mei's Water Dragon:
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I gave Tobirama a blue circle of the dragon to show the length of the dragon's head and a blue arrow to show how much is extended. Look at the Doton wall from Hashriama's counter scan to see MORE 3D view, which shows a larger view of the attack! It clearly rivals to that of Mei! Or better?
From the two images above, you can see that the suiton dwarfs Madara's katon. In turn, Madara's katon made Tsunade look tiny as shown below.
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Her waterpillar effortlessly extinguished Madara's katon without the water getting evaporated whereas
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was evaporated after extinguishing Madara's katon. Furthermore, their combined suiton was only as large as Madara's katon unlike Mei's suiton which was much larger. This just goes to show that her waterpillar is on a much higher level than 12 fodders using suiton.
This goes to show that Mei's water pillar is dozens of times larger than Tobirama's so unless you think Mei is way above kage level, part one Tobirama is low jounin at best.
While Tobirama's water dragon is roughly the same size as Mei's, that isn't proof they are equal in speed, density, range and destructive power. Not to mention your scaling is off because you took the height of the water dragon after it splashes into the wall and disperses. Mei utilized the pre existing water while adding more water from her mouth to create her water dragon. This clearly shows that her water dragon was way more packed with water than Tobirama's who only used the pre existing water from his water wall which was far less than Mei's water pillar.
Hint Hint
They're more hints that these Edo's are capable of beating Kage level, not just "Old Hiruzen". And I based that on Rasa's comment.[
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]. As we know Rasa was killed by Orochimaru, so how did he know about Edo Tensei? You either conclude that Orochimaru told him about the ability or Rasa got first experience dealing with them. And I doubt Rasa didn't attempt to at least fight. That said, base on Rasa's feats in the War, you wouldn't even think that Part 1 Hashirama and Tobirama can beat that.
Rasa may have seen them in action but Oro has access to both Hashirama and Tobirama as well as his own abilities so that doesn't mean either edo alone is kage level.
I feel the need to address this, as my final point. Base on the comment Tobirama made, we end up concluding that this somehow means the ninjutsu they use back then is far weaker then they were to use it now. I disagree, of course, base on everything I addressed here. To me I think this just means they are just limited to what they could use, not that what they could use is weaken. I take Kisame and Itachi as an example. Pein used a jutsu (Shoten no Jutsu) to where they can replace a copy of themselves to fight for them. These bodies were only limited to use 30% percent of their power. Meaning Itachi couldnt use MS and Kisame couldnt do certain and better Suiton. Now whatever these 2 used in 30% has never shown or seen to be stronger then if they were to use the move/attack at 100%. 30% Itachi's Fireball is no different in size or power when used as an Edo Tensei. Same applies to everything I stated here. I believe limited in power rule's apply the same way shadow clones do.
Well neither Itachi or Kisame can use their stronger techs much like Hashirama and Tobirama. Regardless, Hashirama was maybe at 1% power while Tobirama was probably at 20%.
Conclusion: Part 1 Edo Hashirama and Tobirama are Kage level, not fodder. They can definitely give a fight on to Part 2 S-class ninja's+Kages. Though being mind-less drones does hinder the way they would fight.
I doubt they can beat certain jounins from Shippuden, let alone S-class criminals and kages. Especially Tobirama, that dude was pretty weak, Kidomaru solos. Part one Hashirama is still pretty impressive, high jounin level IMO.
