[SPOILERS] Tobirama/Danzo =/= Hashirama/Hiruzen

[Aertes]

Well about that unorthodox...do you find Edo Tensei to be orthodox? I surely don't. And well regarding Oro and experiments, I do have another theory about this. In the end, Tobirama seemed like a experiments person himself. The way e studied the Uchihas makes me believe that. I know all the things Danzo did were morally debatable, however, what do you do when your village in in danger? Who do you chose first?

No, personally I believe that edo is one of the worst jutsus that exist, but I don't believe that when Tobirama invented it he realized the consequences of such a jutsu.
I agree Tobirama seemed like his was studying the Uchiha clan and making experiments but in my eyes he did that because he truly wanted to understand them, not to gain something from their power. On the other hand I think Danzo never truly cared about the Uchiha's, or perceived them as a part of the village, he disrespected them and their powers and that's the reason for his misfortune end.
I too believe that the village should come first but Danzo's action failed on that purpose because he compromised the credibility of the village in the kages summit and in a way he endanger the village with his close relations to Orochimaru.
Danzo failed to understand that the village's true power arises from the power and the will of the shinobis/residents and not of a single leader (Hokage).On the other hand Tobirama seemed to have a better understanding on that.

 

[Jeadong]

Tobirama's knowledge on sharingan is freaking amazing. From the third databook he established ANBU how many dirty thing he did in the past with that like danzo did with ANBU ROOT only to keep konoha in #1 position.

 

[Chatte]

Hmm, someone already made a thread like this, does it mean i can close it too?
Like you did to mine?

You read the rules dear member. This thread wasn't made before. See the differences between maters before accusing of something.
As well, keep it on topic or else it's considered spam.

Tobirama's knowledge on sharingan is freaking amazing. From the third databook he established ANBU how many dirty thing he did in the past with that like danzo did with ANBU ROOT only to keep konoha in #1 position.

I doo have a theory about that too. I'll post it later since now I'm quite busy with some other stuff.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Ok, so I've wanted to discuss some things since the new chapters is up. It's just me or Danzo's way of leadership is similar to Tobirama's and Hiruzen's to Hashirama?
We all know that Danzo took some harsh decisions, morally debatable however, politically correct since it was for the protection of the village, in the end. However, Hiruzen was more caring like Hashirama's type.
So I was wondering...could Tobirama have been Danzo's master and Hashirama Hiruzen's? Or both Hashirama and Tobirama trained Danzo and Hiruzen and each of them took different paths? Because as we've seen in this last chapter, Tobirama seems to be more like Danzo, leading his people with an "iron hand" to say like this, while Hashirama seems to be caring towards his people like Hiruzen was.
So, what's your input on this? Thoughts? Do you agree with what they did? Both Tobirama and Danzo. Don't? Let's discuss!
But, I ask you all, let's have a nice and polite debate or else I'll close this down in the immediate moment someone goes overboard.
Thanks!

Hey congrats on becoming mod, chatte! When did this happen? Im not on these forums much nowadays so i guess i must have missed it.
Moving on, i have two points with respect to this thread:
1. Tobirama and Danzo share what appear to be similar ideals/beliefs. Likewise with hashirama/hiruzen. However there are differences, Tobirama was aware of the causes for the uchihas rebellious nature while danzo did not appear to consider this. Tobirama was a right winger, while danzo was a borderline tyrant. Also i dont think the 2nd is a manipulative type inspite of being a hawk. What i mean by this is i dont think hed make others do his dirty work for him, like danzo did with root. Remember the flashback when he stops an argument between hiruzen and and danzo and chooses to be the decoy himself?
2. There is no real correlation between an evil master leading to an evil student or vice versa. If that were true, Orochimaru would never have turned rogue despite having hiruzen as his sensei. Nor would sasuke who had kakashi. Or obito whos master was minato etc. Ultimately it depends on the life experiences and personality of the shinobi in question as to what path they choose. So the last point you made both hiruzen and danzo taking different paths is correct imo.

 

[Onion Soda]

And then Tobirama died without any major ramifications or impact on the story.

Just like Danzo.

Sure... he chosed Hiruzen over Danzo (making him jealous), sacrificed himself for his fellows, created anbu, uchiha police, IWR jutsu and the predecessor of FTG... [sarcasm] As you say, no impact in the overall story [/sarcasm]

 

[edo tensai wilmaso]

i'd argue the opposite mr chatte ...tobirama did not slay the uchihas to get their eyes ,also i have a feeling that tobirama does not like the uchiha clan not cause they are mortal enemies but because they killed hashi, as we see hashi did not die old, maybe the uchiha had something to do with ....and tobirama can't stand them but also did not want to massacre them. danzou on the other hand is madara point blank period they both have a lust for power and danzou was a senju who wanted to be a uchiha if you ask me.

also hiruzen isn't mister innocent either. he bascially said ( hey itachi since we know that you don't have any family like bond to your clan, can you massacre them so that you can leave the village looking like a bad ass ninja so that you can be our spy for a bad ass organization ...lmao ) he basically killed two birds with one stone get rid of the uchihas since they are planning a rebellion and infiltrate akatsuki...smart man but was it ethical or morally correct?

 

[Onion Soda]

Ok, I mostly agree, but there are some differences.
Danzo was power-angry to the point of contribution with Orchimaru, make conspiracies against current hokages (both his friend and the grandaughter of his sensei) and not defend the village from Pain (No outcome will be good for Konoha if Naruto had no won).
Tobirama was a very objective guy --> Village first, second and Third, while Danzo was more like --> Himself, again himself, the village for himself. I never saw Danzo as a well-intentioned extremist, he was just a hypocrite who manipulated and tortured people for his own sake and called it in the name of the greater good.
Tobirama, as far as we saw, is a blunt-man (I don't know if it really is the correct word) who had no qualms for making hard and cold decisions that would benefit the village. Also, there is no clue about him becoming power-angry at somepoint, because, it seems, he only strived for his people sake. Just like some so-called "heroes" in the real world, mind you.

Mistaken or not, Tobirama could be one of the most interesting character that kishi made. I couldn't ask for something better... well yeah, an animated flashback of him vs Kin and Gin =D

 

[Naru2GT]

I don't agree with hiruzen=hashi, more like tsunade=hashi, hiruzen=minato.

 

[Chatte]

yeah it may sound like that but Tobirama was not obessed as Danzo was his measure to protect the village were based on resonings were as Danzo's resonings were far too crude IMO such as the curse seal and root....

Hashirama is just like Naruto hehe I thought he would be serious but he is totally like Naruto and Tsunade hehehe

I already started liking him even more now hehehe

As I said, Danzo probably got his obsession from the desire to protect Konoha as well as Tobirama. Only that his desire got the worst of him. And well, cruel or not, that's what military leadership is like.
And true, Hashi's a goofball, lol.

LE: Editing the rest soon.

 

[TurrinB]

Tobirama, Danzo, & Itachi are all similar in the fact that they believe the ends justify the means.

 

[6PathsofKami]

Danzo became that way because Hiruzen was better than him and he got jelouse. We saw when he died that he did infact care and was a good guy but from a young age he was the under dog which made him that way.

 

[AnimusOra]

I believe both Hiruzen and Danzo were trained by Hashirama and Tobirama I just think they each took different roles in leadership because of the life they had previous to becoming the leaders they were. They both knew what needed to be done they just handled the situations differently. Both of them cared for the village which is clear except Danzo was more along the Uchiha lineage for loving to much. In such a case he knew the measures that need to be taken in order to preserve peace. Hiruzen would have done the same things Danzo had done, but i think Danzo beat him to the decisions purely because of their competitive nature with each other.

 

[Regulus]

yeah it may sound like that but Tobirama was not obessed as Danzo was his measure to protect the village were based on resonings were as Danzo's resonings were far too crude IMO such as the curse seal and root....

Hashirama is just like Naruto hehe I thought he would be serious but he is totally like Naruto and Tsunade hehehe

I already started liking him even more now hehehe

Hhmm I think Danzo and Tobirama have more differences than similarities.Danzo was too trying to protect the village and put it above anything else, but he used many unorthodox ways to do so.He craved for power so much that he secretly made experiments with Oro,a well known enemy of the village and stole sharingans to enhance his power.He also tried to manipulate the kages in the summit to his own benefit.I believe that Danzo was after the Hokage title so bad not only to protect the village but to satisfy his own ambitions too.
Tobirama on the other hand might seem that was more harsh, but as far as we 've seen, he never tried to use his power for his ambitions or mistreated the Uchiha's to gain something.He even sacrificed himself and gladly gave the Hokage title to Hiruzen.From his words I conclude that he respected the Uchiha clan and his power but he considered that their love/hate curse could compromise the peace of the village so he tried to contain them.

I agree with both of these. Danzo was more selfish then Tobirama ever was. Tobirama was not without his faults but he cared for the village deeply and did his best to protect it even giving his life to protect his team. Danzo was a selfish man filled with ambition and was willing to go to far to protect the village. He was a monster who dealt with Orochimaru just to become stronger. Tobirama wanted the Uchiha segregated to protect the Village. Danzo wanted them killed so he could take their power.